Campaign gets racial

Superhands · 10-10-2008 3:51am #1

some extraordinary developments over the last week

a shout of "kill him" (obama) heard from one member of the audience and a black TV man being racially abused by a crowd member at a Palin rally in Florida as she talks about the national medai

NY times editorial accusing McCain of "race-baiting"

Biden talking about it being "mildly dangerous"

Fox reporting "In recent days, when Barack Obama's name is mentioned, it has gone from boos and hissing to actual chants and calls of 'traitor', 'criminal' and even 'terrorist'. The McCain campaign say that don't condone it, don't want to see it happen but it's happening more and more every day.

is McCain trying to bring the country down with him ?

I've written about this on my blog byzantine330.blogspot.com

twice now on CNN in recent days they've talked about the potential for violence

herobear · 10-10-2008 4:24am

yeah McCain/Palin know theyre fighting a losing battle, so theyve resorted to mudslinging at their rallies, they might not 'officially' condone it, but theyre not doing anything to prevent it(Palin just stands there and smiles). Ironically though i think it'll have the opposite effect in which they hope in the eyes of the undecideds(the people who really matter at this late stage in the race).

i'd actually be embarassed, if i was at a rally and saw this stuff firsthand

Benedict XVI · 10-10-2008 8:14am

The campaign has been racist from the minute Obama entered it.

The majority of blacks will vote for him, and even vote at all, just because he is black.

This is no different to a white person voting for McCain (or Hillary in the primaries) just because they are white.

Lemming · 10-10-2008 8:34am

Benedict XVI wrote: »

The campaign has been racist from the minute Obama entered it.

The majority of blacks will vote for him, and even vote at all, just because he is black.

This is no different to a white person voting for McCain (or Hillary in the primaries) just because they are white.

So what you're saying is that whites only should run in presidential campaigns? Since that way all candidates are even on race. White vs. white. vs. ...err ... more white. We could say that this campaign has been sexist from the moment Sarah Palin stepped into the ring. Where do you want this particular line of argument (and it's an incredibly weak one at that) to stop?

Historically, the democrats have by and large consistently held the majority of black votes because they've felt a greater chance of being represented. That Obama is black is not an issue, since he'd be getting a large swathe of minority community voting because he represents the democrat party. So saying large amounts of black voters are going to vote for him because he's black is a complete red herring of an argument. It's no more an argument than saying whites are going to vote for McCain because he's white. Some on both sides will of course display racial prejudice in the voting booth but there's little anyone can do about that.

Benedict XVI · 10-10-2008 9:12am

Lemming wrote: »

So what you're saying is that whites only should run in presidential campaigns? Since that way all candidates are even on race. White vs. white. vs. ...err ... more white. We could say that this campaign has been sexist from the moment Sarah Palin stepped into the ring. Where do you want this particular line of argument (and it's an incredibly weak one at that) to stop?

Historically, the democrats have by and large consistently held the majority of black votes because they've felt a greater chance of being represented. That Obama is black is not an issue, since he'd be getting a large swathe of minority community voting because he represents the democrat party. So saying large amounts of black voters are going to vote for him because he's black is a complete red herring of an argument. It's no more an argument than saying whites are going to vote for McCain because he's white. Some on both sides will of course display racial prejudice in the voting booth but there's little anyone can do about that.

Of course not, anyone should be able to run for office.

If you had a Asian candidate I would suspect that the majority of the Asian population would vote for them.

I also suspect that if McCain picked Colin Powell as his running mate, or if George Bush did, as he was rumored to be a VP candidate back in 2000, you would see a massive movement toward the Republicans by black voters, based solely on the fact that there was a black candidate on the ticket.

Lemming · 10-10-2008 10:05am

Benedict XVI wrote: »

I also suspect that if McCain picked Colin Powell as his running mate, or if George Bush did, as he was rumored to be a VP candidate back in 2000, you would see a massive movement toward the Republicans by black voters, based solely on the fact that there was a black candidate on the ticket.

Perhaps, perhaps not. It's impossible to know now given that many voters would appear to be less impressed with style and more with substance this time around. Case in point seems to be a distinct air of "I don't give a crap about how many hairs he has on his head or what his pet dogs name is, tell me how you are goin gto fix the economy. My job and house are on the line big-time" resonating with voters.

Had this been 5 years ago, I'd have agreed with your assessment as being reasonably accurate. This time around, it appears that more voters are paying attention to the politics and being turned off by the mud-slinging. Now if only that were the case more often the world over, what a better place this planet could be.

CtrlSource · 10-10-2008 11:41am

Benedict XVI wrote: »

The majority of blacks will vote for him, and even vote at all, just because he is black.

Citation please?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem :rolleyes:

Benedict XVI · 10-10-2008 11:56am

CtrlSource wrote: »

Citation please?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem :rolleyes:

Personal opinion, based on living and working in the US for a decade.

Give me time I might find some youtube of black voters being asked.

yaynay · 10-10-2008 12:00pm

CtrlSource wrote: »

Citation please?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem :rolleyes:

There is a number of websites on Google suggesting that more than 90% of black people are voting for Obama, however there is no stastic to exactly pin point (as far as I can see, anyway).

RedPlanet · 10-10-2008 12:07pm

Benedict XVI wrote: »

The majority of blacks will vote for him, and even vote at all, just because he is black.

Complete rubbish. As an ethnic group, African American's have been voting for the Democratic Party since the US Civil Rights Act.
Regardless if the candidate is white or black.

CtrlSource · 10-10-2008 12:16pm

yaynay wrote: »

There is a number of websites on Google suggesting that more than 90% of black people are voting for Obama, however there is no stastic to exactly pin point (as far as I can see, anyway).

That's not the issue here. i'm well aware that the majority of black people will vote for him. i am curious to know where Benedict got his information that the "majority of blacks will vote for him, and even vote at all, just because he is black".

The Mad Hatter · 10-10-2008 12:17pm

herobear wrote: »

(Palin just stands there and smiles).

Now let's be fair, that's all she seems to do anyway.

Hobbes · 10-10-2008 12:32pm

Benedict XVI wrote: »

Give me time I might find some youtube of black voters being asked.

African American population of America tend to vote Democratic. Has nothing to do with the colour of his skin.

Ludo · 10-10-2008 12:41pm

To say it has nothing to do with his skin colour may be a bit much. Yes black people generally vote democrat but more will this year than any other and some who may have previously voted republican may vote democrat. This is a special occasion though. For a race that has had the history that it does in the States, this is a momentous occasion and of course some will vote on skin colour purely to try and get the first black president...and nothing wrong with that IMHO.

You could also say the same about Palin supporters though...rednecks and white trash will vote for her in their droves (even though they generally vote republican anyway) as they can relate to her

iwudluvit · 10-10-2008 12:46pm

CtrlSource wrote: »

That's not the issue here. i'm well aware that the majority of black people will vote for him. i am curious to know where Benedict got his information that the "majority of blacks will vote for him, and even vote at all, just because he is black".

We will know more when the turnout is tallied (and currently, based on expected turnout).

If black voters turn out in their droves like never before to vote for a black candidate, well you don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure it out. Sure, an inspirational candidate will inspire new types of voters but key motivation will be representation and identification factors.

iwudluvit · 10-10-2008 12:49pm

Ludo wrote: »

of course some will vote on skin colour purely to try and get the first black president...and nothing wrong with that IMHO.

You could also say the same about Palin supporters though...rednecks and white trash will vote for her in their droves (even though they generally vote republican anyway) as they can relate to her

and what about those won't vote obama or palin because they don't like who they represent (as opposed to disliking their policies?).

That ok too?

Benedict XVI · 10-10-2008 1:07pm

iwudluvit wrote: »

and what about those won't vote obama or palin because they don't like who they represent (as opposed to disliking their policies?).

That ok too?

Well you see this is what will happen.

Black person votes for Dems because he/she does not like McCain and or Palin = OK

White person votes Rep. because he/she does not like Obama and or Biden = Racist

Ludo · 10-10-2008 1:08pm

Nope...just saying there will always be a percentage of people who will vote for the candidate they relate most to. This election is the first time many can directly relate to a candidate (Obama obviously) so it is perfectly natural that some will vote for him due to that. I wouldn't call it racism though.

Is the fact some women will vote for McCain because of Palin sexism? I don't think so.
I can think of a few other words for it, but sexism it ain't

I'm not saying anything is right or wrong...just that human nature dictates some people will behave like this without any malice intended.

Benedict XVI · 10-10-2008 1:24pm

Ludo wrote: »

This election is the first time many can directly relate to a candidate (Obama obviously) so it is perfectly natural that some will vote for him due to that. I wouldn't call it racism though.

OK, but the reason many can directly relate to a candidate (Obama obviously) is because of the colour of his skin, and they are voting because of that.

If I were to say I can relate to McCain because of the colour of his skin and am voting for him as a result I would be called a racist.

bobbyjoe · 10-10-2008 1:27pm

Benedict XVI wrote: »

OK, but the reason many can directly relate to a candidate (Obama obviously) is because of the colour of his skin, and they are voting because of that.

If I were to say I can relate to McCain because of the colour of his skin and am voting for him as a result I would be called a racist.

How do you know they are only voting for him because he is black? Maybe its his policies?

iwudluvit · 10-10-2008 1:30pm

Benedict XVI wrote: »

If I were to say I can relate to McCain because of the colour of his skin and am voting for him as a result I would be called a racist.

them's the breaks.

It's politically acceptable to call books 'stupid white men' but not 'stupid black men' etc. etc. Sauce for the goose is not sauce for the gander.

If obama winning would have any good consequence it might be that the playing field would be levelled again and blacks could get out of pointing to systemic racism in the USA.

iwudluvit · 10-10-2008 1:30pm

bobbyjoe wrote: »

How do you know they are only voting for him because he is black? Maybe its his policies?

oh for god's sake. read the thread.

bobbyjoe · 10-10-2008 1:40pm

iwudluvit wrote: »

oh for god's sake. read the thread.

Was I quoting you?

Benedict XVI · 10-10-2008 1:47pm

iwudluvit wrote: »

If obama winning would have any good consequence it might be that the playing field would be levelled again and blacks could get out of pointing to systemic racism in the USA.

that would be a very welcome development

Ludo · 10-10-2008 1:47pm

Benedict XVI wrote: »

OK, but the reason many can directly relate to a candidate (Obama obviously) is because of the colour of his skin, and they are voting because of that.

A percentage are obviously without doubt. no way to tell how many though. You seem to be implying ALL of them will vote for him because of skin colour. Total generalisation.
The vast majority are probably going to vote for him though as they agree with the policies (democratic supporters anyway) and some will make an extra effort to actually vote this time which they may not have made before. That still does NOT make it racism.

yaynay · 10-10-2008 1:50pm

iwudluvit wrote: »

them's the breaks.

It's politically acceptable to call books 'stupid white men' but not 'stupid black men' etc. etc. Sauce for the goose is not sauce for the gander.

If obama winning would have any good consequence it might be that the playing field would be levelled again and blacks could get out of pointing to systemic racism in the USA.

It's this sort of double standards that's the infuriating part.

yaynay · 10-10-2008 1:54pm

Ludo wrote: »

A percentage are obviously without doubt. no way to tell how many though. You seem to be implying ALL of them will vote for him because of skin colour. Total generalisation.
The vast majority are probably going to vote for him though as they agree with the policies (democratic supporters anyway) and some will make an extra effort to actually vote this time which they may not have made before. That still does NOT make it racism.

Lubo, speaking of generalisations:

"rednecks and white trash will vote for her [Palin] in their droves (even though they generally vote republican anyway) as they can relate to her"

Ludo · 10-10-2008 1:54pm

yaynay wrote: »

It's this sort of double standards that's the infuriating part.

erm...

http://www.amazon.com/Stupid-Black-Men-Play-Card/dp/0312367333

A white man can write a book called stupid white men but not stupid black men...and vice versa...it's only been 40ish years since the civil rights act. Is it that hard to understand that it takes time for wounds like that to heal.

Superhands · 10-10-2008 1:55pm

Benedict XVI wrote: »

The campaign has been racist from the minute Obama entered it.

The majority of blacks will vote for him, and even vote at all, just because he is black.

This is no different to a white person voting for McCain (or Hillary in the primaries) just because they are white.

are racists voting for mccain (and clinton previously) because they are white, or are they voting for against obama because he is black ?

Ludo · 10-10-2008 1:57pm

yaynay wrote: »

Lubo, speaking of generalisations:

"rednecks and white trash will vote for her [Palin] in their droves (even though they generally vote republican anyway) as they can relate to her"

If you are going to try using my comments against me, then please quote me properly...there was a smiley on it to show I was being sarcastic and showing how the same silly argument can be applied to both sides. You know what I meant and misquoted to try scoring a point.

Superhands · 10-10-2008 1:58pm

bobbyjoe wrote: »

How do you know they are only voting for him because he is black? Maybe its his policies?

blacks vote democrat anyway about 85% so the point is largely moot

even if they did vote for him simply because he is black this (while not wholly defensible) is hardly comparable to people (ie some blue collar democrats) resisting the candidate who would usually get their support because he is black

yaynay · 10-10-2008 2:03pm

Ludo wrote: »

If you are going to try using my comments against me, then please quote me properly...there was a smiley on it to show I was being sarcastic and showing how the same silly argument can be applied to both sides. You know what I meant and misquoted to try scoring a point.

BlitzKrieg · 10-10-2008 2:03pm

yeah the whole racism element will only come into play if the increase of support for McCain comes from people up until Obama voted Democrat.

iwudluvit · 10-10-2008 2:05pm

Ludo wrote: »

erm...

http://www.amazon.com/Stupid-Black-Men-Play-Card/dp/0312367333

A white man can write a book called stupid white men but not stupid black men...and vice versa...it's only been 40ish years since the civil rights act. Is it that hard to understand that it takes time for wounds like that to heal.

'Stupid white men' sold millions and was promoted universally unlike the book you link to here and their themes were very different. Moore's being that it's stupid white men's fault for everything. Not so the other book.

Somebody above posted 'white trash'. Where's their civil rights and 40 years mullarkey? How many years will it be before saying 'black trash' publicly is acceptable?

yaynay · 10-10-2008 2:08pm

iwudluvit wrote: »

Somebody above posted 'white trash'. Where's their civil rights and 40 years mullarkey? How many years will it be before saying 'black trash' publicly is acceptable?

Good point... I'm thinking never because the old racist card will never get old enough.

Benedict XVI · 10-10-2008 2:09pm

Superhands wrote: »

blacks vote democrat anyway about 85% so the point is largely moot

That is true but you have to look at the black turnout.

If there is a huge swell in turnout amongst blacks then it will be obvious that people are only voting for Obama because they can relate to him, i.e. his is black.

peanuthead · 10-10-2008 2:11pm

Superhands wrote: »

some extraordinary developments over the last week

a shout of "kill him" (obama) heard from one member of the audience and a black TV man being racially abused by a crowd member at a Palin rally in Florida as she talks about the national medai

NY times editorial accusing McCain of "race-baiting"

Biden talking about it being "mildly dangerous"

Fox reporting "In recent days, when Barack Obama's name is mentioned, it has gone from boos and hissing to actual chants and calls of 'traitor', 'criminal' and even 'terrorist'. The McCain campaign say that don't condone it, don't want to see it happen but it's happening more and more every day.

is McCain trying to bring the country down with him ?

I've written about this on my blog byzantine330.blogspot.com

twice now on CNN in recent days they've talked about the potential for violence

Admittedly, im not 100% up on my american politics, and am probably going to get a bit of a bashing for this, but IMO it has been a racial battle from the very start. Not only because of comments made by McCains side, but comments made by Obama's party too. I think Obama is oh too happy to play the race card TBH, I once remember him saying (albeit a long time ago) that people were afraid to vote fot him "because he didnt look like the rest of the presidents on the american currency notes" WTF!! For one, who was the last president on an american note? I admit I dont know, but I know it wasnt Bush Jr/Sr or Clinton anyway. They were men who have graced our history books for memorable reasons (not saying bush wont achieve that one!!!!) So what does Obama want to achieve?? To be the first black man to be president?? I would heavily question his reasons for wanting to be president!! For his desire to make a change or to make history???IMO, he instigated the race row in the first place, and after spending 2 months in america over the summer, surrounded by the campaign if forced to choose I would still pick him, however I feel they are both highlY unsuitable for the job. Not that I think I (or the current pres. would do any better)

iwudluvit · 10-10-2008 2:15pm

here's my summary:

white trash vote republican and black trash vote democrat

because obama is black, even more black trash than usual will come out and vote democrat.

then even more white trash will come out to vote republican.

overall, the motivation factor for blacks is stronger so obama might shade the election.

BUT there are more white trash than black trash(aren't there?) so maybe that won't happen. we won't know until the day.

Can we all sign up to this? A fair summary of a racial thread?

Benedict XVI · 10-10-2008 2:18pm

iwudluvit wrote: »

here's my summary:

white trash vote republican and black trash vote democrat

because obama is black, even more black trash than usual will come out and vote democrat.

then even more white trash will come out to vote republican.

overall, the motivation factor for blacks is stronger so obama might shade the election.

BUT there are more white trash than black trash(aren't there?) so maybe that won't happen. we won't know until the day.

Can we all sign up to this? A fair summary of a racial thread?

Spot on

one other point however, black trash may not come out and vote in the expected numbers, like students and young people (student and young trash) they have a tendency to say they will vote and then not bother.

iwudluvit · 10-10-2008 2:20pm

peanuthead wrote: »

Admittedly, im not 100% up on my american politics, and am probably going to get a bit of a bashing for this, but IMO it has been a racial battle from the very start. Not only because of comments made by McCains side, but comments made by Obama's party too. I think Obama is oh too happy to play the race card TBH, I once remember him saying (albeit a long time ago) that people were afraid to vote fot him "because he didnt look like the rest of the presidents on the american currency notes" WTF!! For one, who was the last president on an american note? I admit I dont know, but I know it wasnt Bush Jr/Sr or Clinton anyway. They were men who have graced our history books for memorable reasons (not saying bush wont achieve that one!!!!) So what does Obama want to achieve?? To be the first black man to be president?? I would heavily question his reasons for wanting to be president!! For his desire to make a change or to make history???IMO, he instigated the race row in the first place, and after spending 2 months in america over the summer, surrounded by the campaign if forced to choose I would still pick him, however I feel they are both highlY unsuitable for the job. Not that I think I (or the current pres. would do any better)

well I think it's a fair comment from Obama to publicly acknowledge his racial difference!

and as to people's motivation for public office - god knows - a bit of everything, I'd say.

iwudluvit · 10-10-2008 2:21pm

Benedict XVI wrote: »

Spot on

one other point however, black trash may not come out and vote in the expected numbers, like students and young people (student and young trash) they have a tendency to say they will vote and then not bother.

typical lazy students.

:rolleyes:

Benedict XVI · 10-10-2008 2:26pm

iwudluvit wrote: »

typical lazy students.

:rolleyes:

Yea, some believe that it had a impact on the 2004 election, the young and student vote did not bother getting out and voting for Kerry while the older and more conservative vote got out and voted in their droves fro Bush as expected.

It may have also been down to the fact that the Kerry voters were too busy helping the sick and poor and while the Bush voters had loads of time on their hands because their negro slaves were doing their work back on the plantations and ranches.

Hobbes · 10-10-2008 2:30pm

iwudluvit wrote: »

here's my summary:

You left out the asians! They are yellow. :rolleyes:

[sarcastic]
Hi, I think black people will vote for Obama based on race because they are incapable of thinking of anything else like policies or financial situations they are in. Those that are slightly tanned will probably vote for Ron Paul.
[/sarcastic]

Nick_oliveri · 10-10-2008 2:35pm

Although i dont agree with you guys, or the continued use of "black trash", its obvious that some misguided ignorant morons will take the race route or bias when voting.

This is an unavoidable stepping stone when the first black Presidential candidate was announced. Maybe someday they'll get over it.

These morons are likely in the minority and No MILF or POW can change people choosing the right category for the White house. Id think you would be surprised with the amount of blacks that will vote republican.

Hobbes · 10-10-2008 2:44pm

Nick_oliveri wrote: »

its obvious that some misguided ignorant morons will take the race route or bias when voting.

While might be true for the minority I don't see how it is going to get them out in droves. It is more likely to get people out in droves and vote for Obama for the clusterfuk the whitehouse has put the USA in. Also with Voter suppression and apathy (because they thought Kerry won) the last time around I don't see people being as lax as the last time.

iwudluvit · 10-10-2008 2:45pm

Hobbes wrote: »

You left out the asians! They are yellow. :rolleyes:

[sarcastic]
Hi, I think black people will vote for Obama based on race because they are incapable of thinking of ...[/sarcastic]

saracastic or not, no-one's is saying that.

mostly we are saying that one votes for one's own.

same way as I support Ireland when versus Brazil even though Brazil plays better football and probably will win.

iwudluvit · 10-10-2008 2:53pm

"Converse et al. (1961) estimate that Kennedy's vote among Catholics was 17 percentage points higher than what an average non-Catholic candidate could have expected"

I'm sure there's more on this elsewhere but the general point holds.

Regardless of all the other issues, Catholics voted for JFK as it was their first chance to. If a Catholic ran today, it wouldn't have the same impact. However, for blacks, given it's the first time around, it's a huge factor.

I don't know why I'm bothering at this stage. It's axiomatic.

Galvasean · 10-10-2008 2:57pm

Hobbes wrote: »

You left out the asians! They are yellow. :rolleyes:

They'll vote Republican because yellow is closer to white than it is to black. :pac:

Who will Michael Jackson vote for?

edit: or zebras, if they were in a position to vote which way would they swing?

Benedict XVI · 10-10-2008 3:06pm

Galvasean wrote: »

edit: or zebras, if they were in a position to vote which way would they swing?

I actually think they are in a position to vote, ACORN registered about 500 of them from a park in Wyoming last week.

transylman · 10-10-2008 3:07pm

McCain is really whipping the right into a frenzy right now. It is extremely worrying to hear screams of terrorist every time Obamas name is mentioned at McCains rallies. These right wing extremists are not going to accept an Obama presidency, what happens if he does win? The parallels with Yitzhak Rabin should be a major cause for concern.

McCain is playing a really dangerous game which is definitely not in the interest of the US.

norbert64 · 10-10-2008 3:08pm

certain people may be starting to question the youth vote. :rolleyes:
http://crooksandliars.com/cernig/2020-youre-too-young-and-too-dumb-vote

Campaign gets racial

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