Wearing Shades @ Big Tourneys

bantee

Hey just want to get the views of some players on this.

I noticed Jimmy who won the Killarney event is a fan of the cap and shades. Do people who wear them reckon they give them an advantage? Is it mainly the big tellboxes who wear them cos they might give away the strength of their hand in their eyes?

You could hardly see Jerry Yang's face at all last year with the cap, big glasses, and putting his 2 hands over his face in every hand.
Hellmuth covers up in every game he plays too, whether it be cash or tourney.

Do some people reckon that they should be banned from poker altogether and everyone take part on a level playing pitch?

I wear them in our house games for a few hands sometimes for a laugh!

Paul Spillane

I wear them as when im staring at people (waitresses, dealers even sometimes opponents!)

I think it’s less intrusive on them if im wearing shades. I also wear them as im more than likely suffering from a hangover and look a lot more terrifying with them on than with two baggy red eyes.

The final reason I wear them is so my opponents can’t see me cry when I suffer a badbeat.

Even though I wear them for all the above reasons I think they should be banned for the good of the game but until they are I guess I will keep wearing them.

For the definitive view read this article from the guvnor, especially the very last question and answer

http://www.cardplayer.com/magazine/article/14359

bantee

Paul Spillane wrote: »

I wear them as when im staring at people (waitresses, dealers even sometimes opponents!)

I think it’s less intrusive on them if im wearing shades. I also wear them as im more than likely suffering from a hangover and look a lot more terrifying with them on than with two baggy red eyes.

Lol, staring at hot dealers is as good an excuse as any. Just remember to wipe the drool from your bottom lip!

max_power

They make you look cool.

Mellor

Paul Spillane wrote: »

I wear them as when im staring at people (waitresses, dealers even sometimes opponents!)

I think it’s less intrusive on them if im wearing shades. I also wear them as im more than likely suffering from a hangover and look a lot more terrifying with them on than with two baggy red eyes.

The final reason I wear them is so my opponents can’t see me cry when I suffer a badbeat.

Even though I wear them for all the above reasons I think they should be banned for the good of the game but until they are I guess I will keep wearing them.

For the definitive view read this article from the guvnor, especially the very last question and answer

http://www.cardplayer.com/magazine/article/14359

I'm not sure how banning them is good for the game. I don't wear them, but I'm happy to let others think it gives them an edge.

bantee

Mellor wrote: »

I'm not sure how banning them is good for the game. I don't wear them, but I'm happy to let others think it gives them an edge.

But you don't think it actually does give some players an edge? Along with caps and hoods, they provide a physical barrier to your opponent. One of the skills of good poker is how to hold your cool and not look rattled when you're being questioned about your hand or when you've put in a sizeable bluff.
Its easier to hide behind these props and hide emotion.

Refer to "the improver's" post in the theory section where he asked a guy does he have AK or something similar and he said the guy looked nervous. He must have given it away in his eyes. If he had these props he might have hidden his emotions better.

Is there any trournaments worldwide where these are not allowed?

shrapnel222

if they weren't allowed, people would still be able to hide their face in their hands or stick their head under the table, they'd just look more stupid.

Lex

Wearing them for €50 games in SE, Fitz etc is where it's at. That's where you get a real edge.

bantee

Lex wrote: »

Wearing them for €50 games in SE, Fitz etc is where it's at. That's where you get a real edge.

Could this insightful logic also be applied to pub re-buy tourneys?

Mellor

bantee wrote: »

But you don't think it actually does give some players an edge? Along with caps and hoods, they provide a physical barrier to your opponent. One of the skills of good poker is how to hold your cool and not look rattled when you're being questioned about your hand or when you've put in a sizeable bluff.
Its easier to hide behind these props and hide emotion.

Refer to "the improver's" post in the theory section where he asked a guy does he have AK or something similar and he said the guy looked nervous. He must have given it away in his eyes. If he had these props he might have hidden his emotions better.

Is there any trournaments worldwide where these are not allowed?

I'd say body language is a bigger tell than the eyes. I'd say most wear them for observation, not to hide tells.
Some people believe thay mark it harder to get a read when they wear their glasses.
Hand from killarney,

Level 1, 25/50
EP raises to 200
Next to act, ships it for 15k
looks around, puts on his sunglasses and sits back with arms folded and a cheesey grin on his face,
Now, obviously there are a number of "tells" here. But the act of putting on glasses after a all-in move is a far bigger tell than anything that the glasses might hide.

robinblinds

I like to wear them for relaxation while playing my piano.

robinblinds

Over a brandy, obviously.

tylerdurden94

I dont wear sunglasses but i do wear a baseball cap 99% of the time i play, sometimes when your getting that evil stare down i can just tip it down so they cant see my face.

Fatboydim

Tells are overrated

BigCityBanker

Fatboydim wrote: »

Tells are overrated

I disagree.

bantee

Mellor wrote: »

I'd say body language is a bigger tell than the eyes. I'd say most wear them for observation, not to hide tells.
Some people believe thay mark it harder to get a read when they wear their glasses.
Hand from killarney,

Level 1, 25/50
EP raises to 200
Next to act, ships it for 15k
looks around, puts on his sunglasses and sits back with arms folded and a cheesey grin on his face,
Now, obviously there are a number of "tells" here. But the act of putting on glasses after a all-in move is a far bigger tell than anything that the glasses might hide.

Even if this guy didn't put on the glasses after his all-in move, he was probably giving off tells with his grin.
What if a guy just leaves the shades on and only takes them off on breaks?
I agree that only putting them on when you have a big hand defeats the purpose of wearing them at all.

robinblinds

Are you allowed bring a pocket calculator to the table?

If other props are allowed to help you work out whether to pass/call/raise then why not a calculator?

bantee

Fatboydim wrote: »

Tells are overrated

Ah you mean like reverse psychology? Example, I push all in with AA after a big pre-flop raise, and I try to look fidgety and nervous so the original raiser calls me.
(And then cracks my aces with QJo lol )

DEEP THROAT

The reason for wearing them is that a sharp player will be watching your eyes as the flop is dealt. If you like what you see your pupils will dilate ( the expression " his eyes popped out of his head" ) and if you don't they wont.

Example player raises preflop, you know his range is AK-AT and say 99-AA so you want to figure out has he raised with the big Ace or a pocket pair.

The flop comes 873... pupils dilate overpair, don't dilate AK


The flop comes A73... pupils dilate AK, don't dilate pair

In fact some players are so good at it they can gauge how well you've hit it..Saw this in a tourney once flop come Heart heart heart. As the cards are coming down a well known english pro is looking at his opponents eyes and out of turn mucks an overpair to the board faceup and announces to the other player you've a flush who bewildered shows his cards with two hearts in it

Flushdraw

DEEP THROAT wrote: »

The flop comes 873... pupils dilate overpair, don't dilate AK

The flop comes A73... pupils dilate AK, don't dilate pair

Dont think its quite that simple these days! If i'm raising with AK and i miss the flop, i'm not suprised because i'm expecting to miss the flop. If i have an overpair, depending on what pair, i'll know the odds of whether to expect undercards or not.

Most of the time, you'll have your flop bet planned before you even see the cards. Generally the only time i'll look at the flop coming down is when i'm allin and cards are on their backs. I'll either look at the player or look past the flop, so i doubt my eyes give too much away.

I wore prescription shades in vegas and at the WSOP FT qualifier in the SE. Thats the only time i've worn them playing. I've pretty poor eyesight and lean over the table a lot. Wearing shades lets me sit back and relax while seeing the flop and looking around. I dont wear normal glasses playing because i'm too aware of people looking at me and i try too hard not to give off tells etc.

I dont think wearing shades gives you a big advantage. It just lets you feel more comfortable because you can dart your eyes around the table without opponents realising and you can take a lot more in, especially if Saphire is dealing

itsjaybud

This years Poker Millions Heat 10 Marty's table, Michael Tureniec had one seriously cool pair of shades on!! It didn't matter how good or bad he played them shades looked really expensive!!;)


Parkinson and Flood should go down the same line as Joe Beevers and get themselves a perscription pair, then they would be the coolest players on the Irish poker scene!!:D

You have to be good to wear them imo, nothing worse than a fish/donkey wearing them at the table and thinking he is Hellmuth or some one!

bantee

Upside-down shades are the way to go fo shizzle! Marcel Luske pioneered the look I think.
Doesn't look the most comfortable though.

Flushdraw

bantee wrote: »

Upside-down shades are the way to go fo shizzle! Marcel Luske pioneered the look I think.
Doesn't look the most comfortable though.

Nah, you're getting him mixed up with Dennis Taylor. I can see the resemblence though..

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

Lao Lao

I wear glasses full time as without them, I'm as blind as a bat. I have a prescription pair as well but would never wear them in any tourney or cash game in the SE, Fitz of Jackpot unless I was locked and was taking the piss.

However, if I ever luckboxed my into a big tourney like an EPT or WSOP or the like, I might just put them on but that would mainly be because I'd feel a bit out of my depth and would be very self concious about my play for the first few levels until I relaxed and got comfortable with the set up

bantee

Flushdraw wrote: »

Nah, you're getting him mixed up with Dennis Taylor. I can see the resemblence though..

You will notice that Taylors aren't exactly upside-down in that pic though, I'd say he got them specially made that way

Fatboydim

Why I say tells are overated is because people tend to go Hollywood on them.

"I knew he had nothing because he scratched his nose and that told me he was weak - So I pushed with my pair of threes. Unfortunately he spiked a seven with his J7os so I lost."

As an example. But I think taken in tandem with table history, betting patterns, style of play etc - it can be very useful.

There's no doubt some players have bigger tells than others. I knew one guy who would make a little shrieking sound any time he had a good hand. He had no idea he was doing it. Sunglasses would not have helped him.

I wear glasses occasionally but as they have an MP3 player attached it could be for any number of reasons that I put them on. to listen to music. to give my eyes a rest from certain lighting conditions. To spy on other players. To look at waitress , dealer etc. to confuse my opponents. To look weak. To look strong. To go to sleep.

doke

I wore them when I started playing live for fear of giving off eye tells. Only wore them when I was in a pot though, which led to some amusing remarks about intimidation from other players.

The most common eye tells are pupil dilation, blinking, staring at the flop, and glancing at chips.

Of course, once you know this you can start faking them, which is why I don't wear them any more.

Most players can't pick up tells, they're not even looking in fact, but some of the very best players are awesome.

bops

shades don't stop me from looking straight into your soul imo

doke

bops wrote: »

shades don't stop me from looking straight into your soul imo

Well yeah, okay, you got me, I admit that's the real reason I stopped

ollyk1

I wore shades once as a joke in a Fitz game (I had been out all the day in the sun in my somewhat limited defense).


I went on to win the tournie and therefore felt compelled to wear shades the next time as a result. Thankfully I lost the next time as I was never so embarrassed as I was when wearing the second time as that time I had deliberately brought sunglasses with me to a poker event :o:o

Tells are a massive part of the game at the lower levels live. Most casual players are total tellboxes.

tm2204

tylerdurden94 wrote: »

I dont wear sunglasses but i do wear a baseball cap 99% of the time i play, sometimes when your getting that evil stare down i can just tip it down so they cant see my face.

Yep Danny that's how I feel about wearting a cap too. I never wear shades but the cap with the peak kept at your eyeline means you can just dip your head slightly to hide your eyes/face. Makers me feel more comfortable playing. Only started wearing one recently but I allways wear one now....

tylerdurden94

tm2204 wrote: »

Yep Danny that's how I feel about wearting a cap too. I never wear shades but the cap with the peak kept at your eyeline means you can just dip your head slightly to hide your eyes/face. Makers me feel more comfortable playing. Only started wearing one recently but I allways wear one now....

Yeah it kind of became a staple of my game, i remember the first time i went in without the looks on peoples faces :eek: :eek: yes i do have a full head of hair!

Lazare

I like to wear sunglasses when the sun is in my eyes. It rarely happens at a poker table.

DEEP THROAT

Flushdraw wrote: »

Dont think its quite that simple these days! If i'm raising with AK and i miss the flop, i'm not suprised because i'm expecting to miss the flop. If i have an overpair, depending on what pair, i'll know the odds of whether to expect undercards or not.

Dilation of pupils is an involuntary reaction that has to do with seeing something you like

DEEP THROAT

doke wrote: »

I wore them when I started playing live for fear of giving off eye tells. Only wore them when I was in a pot though, which led to some amusing remarks about intimidation from other players.

The most common eye tells are pupil dilation, blinking, staring at the flop, and glancing at chips.

Of course, once you know this you can start faking them, which is why I don't wear them any more.

Most players can't pick up tells, they're not even looking in fact, but some of the very best players are awesome.

It's very easy to spot the fakes but if you watch as the cards come down and look for the instantaneous reaction not the "ohh I've hit this so now I'll look like i missed" delayed reaction

Lazare

DEEP THROAT wrote: »

Dilation of pupils is an involuntary reaction that has to do with seeing something you like

Mine tend to stay the same size whenever I read your posts. True so.

Flushdraw

Lazare wrote: »

Mine tend to stay the same size whenever I read your posts. True so.

Zing!

Lazare

Flushdraw wrote: »

Zing!

I wouldn't mind, but it's not even true. Dilation of the pupils has to do with the amount of available light. Less light, larger pupils. Although certain narcotics feck with the system, but I wouldn't know anything about that.

Flushdraw

Lazare wrote: »

I wouldn't mind, but it's not even true. Dilation of the pupils has to do with the amount of available light. Less light, larger pupils. Although certain narcotics feck with the system, but I wouldn't know anything about that.

I'll test ya...tell me if your pupils dilate

bantee

Lazare wrote: »

Although certain narcotics feck with the system, but I wouldn't know anything about that.

I took 2 of those legal "herbal" pills one night playing a house game. Nothing happened for a while but Christ after an hour my pupils were the size of saucers! Unreadable altogether :cool:
When I won the first game I did my "Homer spinning running in circles" dance on the wooden floor shouting WHOOP WHOOP WHOOP loudlylike a girl.
Needless to say I was burnt out and played brutal poker after that so wouldn't recommend it.
Herbal my ar5e!

Mellor

bantee wrote: »

I took 2 of those legal "herbal" pills one night playing a house game. Nothing happened for a while but Christ after an hour my pupils were the size of saucers! Unreadable altogether :cool:
When I won the first game I did my "Homer spinning running in circles" dance on the wooden floor shouting WHOOP WHOOP WHOOP loudlylike a girl.
Needless to say I was burnt out and played brutal poker after that so wouldn't recommend it.
Herbal my ar5e!

Herbal is just a label they stick on anything to fool those that can't think for themselves. Herbal or natural could be applied to many many of the illegal drugs that all come from plants.

robinblinds

If you're wearing shades and you're in seat one or two, and you end up in a pot with the player in seat nine or ten, should you leave your shades on or take them off?

bantee

Mellor wrote: »

Herbal is just a label they stick on anything to fool those that can't think for themselves. Herbal or natural could be applied to many many of the illegal drugs that all come from plants.

I'm well able to think for myslf, thanks for your concern though.
So how is it legal to sell this stuff in the shops? We must be one of the only countries where this is possible.
Thanks for the drugs lecture though dad :rolleyes:

bantee

robinblinds wrote: »

If you're wearing shades and you're in seat one or two, and you end up in a pot with the player in seat nine or ten, should you leave your shades on or take them off?

As I said earlier, is it not easier to leave them on most of time until the breaks?
Also make sure they wrap around the sides of your eyes in case they can spot the panick from an angle

Mr.Plough

DEEP THROAT wrote: »

The reason for wearing them is that a sharp player will be watching your eyes as the flop is dealt. If you like what you see your pupils will dilate ( the expression " his eyes popped out of his head" ) and if you don't they wont.

Example player raises preflop, you know his range is AK-AT and say 99-AA so you want to figure out has he raised with the big Ace or a pocket pair.

The flop comes 873... pupils dilate overpair, don't dilate AK


The flop comes A73... pupils dilate AK, don't dilate pair

In fact some players are so good at it they can gauge how well you've hit it..Saw this in a tourney once flop come Heart heart heart. As the cards are coming down a well known english pro is looking at his opponents eyes and out of turn mucks an overpair to the board faceup and announces to the other player you've a flush who bewildered shows his cards with two hearts in it

lol are you for real?

admit you wear gay bans to look cool.

Mellor

bantee wrote: »

I'm well able to think for myslf, thanks for your concern though.
So how is it legal to sell this stuff in the shops? We must be one of the only countries where this is possible.
Thanks for the drugs lecture though dad :rolleyes:

lol,
I was refering to the term in general, not to you nor drugs, people in general buy into the ballstalk on products, natural, herbal, fat-free etc
no need to be so touchy/insecure

eagle eye

I've heard some players mention that sunglasses are needed at an ept final table. Something to do with the lighting and glancing at your hole cards. Apparently the light can play tricks on your eyes.

I hate seeing them in a 100 freezeout but I suppose that if you use them you should use them in all tourneys so that you are used to them. I always carry a pair with the me, I'd use them when I'm in a hand with someone else who wears shades and if I feel that someone is getting some sort of tell off me I'd put them on. I don't see why anyone should have a problem with someone wearing them anyways. I know one particular well known player who I have told to wear them as his eyes give him away all the time.

Lazare

Flushdraw wrote: »

I'll test ya...tell me if your pupils dilate

DEEP THROAT

Lazare wrote: »

I wouldn't mind, but it's not even true. Dilation of the pupils has to do with the amount of available light. Less light, larger pupils. Although certain narcotics feck with the system, but I wouldn't know anything about that.

So you are claiming unless the light intensity changes the size of your pupils will never vary?

robinblinds

Lazare wrote: »

Playing PLO with a full wrap, top pair and nut flush draw?