Budget 2009

-Chris-

With the Budget being announced early this year (14th October) and the turmoil/confusion/mess caused to new and used car prices by last years "tweaking" of the VRT regime, does anyone have any opinions on what should and shouldn't be done this year?

Will the VRT or Road Tax rates be re-tweaked?
Will the CO2 bands be revised?
Will the gov't use VRT to fill in the gaps in the tax coffers?
What kind of incentives or changes would you like to see?

superjosh9

I'd say that bands will stay the same but that the tax/band will change.

I think that the G band will be increased. The reason being that if people went out and still bought G rated cars post-July, knowing of the high price, then if they can pay €2000 - why not let them pay €3000 or more? I'd rather they did this than increase the price on the A-D bands.

E, F, G should all be increased.

They have between €2.8 and €9 Billion to make up, have to do it somewhere.

If they aren't getting the money that they were getting from the Automotive side, which they aren't, then they have to find it elsewhere. After VRT/Road-Tax, the only other place is probably going to be petrol. I think they are going to tax the hell out of it. I see BIG increases here.

It's all very sad.

And say good by to public Healthcare and Education! Yeh!!

A$$HOLES.

E92

Hopefully they will tax diesel at a rate reflecting the fact that it burns 13% more CO2 per litre than petrol. Well naturally I would prefer no tax on fuel but taxing fuel both achieves the Government's objective of reducing CO2 by making us drive less and/or more ecologically. It would also make the polluter pay, another important objective, particularly if the tax them on a CO2 per litre basis as outlined above.

I would be completely opposed to any increases in road tax and in particular VRT though. Reductions in VRT in particular would be welcome, particularly for the newer super low CO2 cars coming on stream that manage below 100 g/km. I know it's not going to happen though, so with that in mind the best thing would be to leave it alone.

The car market is in enough turmoil without cars becoming even more expensive than they already. There'll be even more job losses if we start increasing VRT now that people will be on tighter budgets than they have been previously.

I am hopeful that given the amount of pandering to the SIMI the Government does that there will not be any increases in VRT for the time being.

By the way superjosh9, band F and especially band G cars have been losing value hand over fist since the VRT changeover came in even though pre July cars would have been both cheaper to buy and (most likely) cheaper to tax too.

The sales for these cars has slumped, so the last thing they need is yet more tax because people are simply not buying these types of cars anymore.

Also, the average car since July pollutes 21 g/km less CO2 than before July, so that's an imporvement of between 1 and 2 bands depending on where you're looking at.

Zonda999

AudiChris wrote: »

With the Budget being announced early this year (14th October) and the turmoil/confusion/mess caused to new and used car prices by last years "tweaking" of the VRT regime, does anyone have any opinions on what should and shouldn't be done this year?

Will the VRT or Road Tax rates be re-tweaked?
Will the CO2 bands be revised?
Will the gov't use VRT to fill in the gaps in the tax coffers?
What kind of incentives or changes would you like to see?

1.Yes. Absolutely.An increase on all bands i would imagine
2.Possibly. I thknk from around 140g to 190g should be revised
3.Yes.Why wouldnt they.People will always need cars, and i think its an easy way of bringin in more cash

IMO, Of course

I think some sort of scrappage scheme would be welcome in order to help shift all the used cars

bazz26

Duty on fuel to increase, possibly a VAT rate increase,
Some sort of overhall of the new VRT rules especially diesel cars,
Old and new motor tax system rate increases.
Increase in Government levy on motor insurance.

The Irish motorist better have a large jar of vasaline ready for next Tuesday.

Gypo

E92 wrote: »

Hopefully they will tax diesel at a rate reflecting the fact that it burns 13% more CO2 per litre than petrol.

I don't understand this , if diesels produce 13% more CO2 for every litre burned, are they not in effect taxed for this already?

To answer the AudiChris's question, I would be surprised to see any significant changes to the new scheme, even in the current situation. Perhaps a slight price increase on the old tax scheme and on tax bands in the new scheme, rather than any changes to the bands themselves.

superjosh9

Meant to say, I wouldn't be surprised either if they decide to back date the road-tax on the pre July cars to that they are based on the new system!

I still can't believe they guaranteed the banks. With what money are they doing this exactly? Oh wait..!

Biro

superjosh9 wrote: »

I think that the G band will be increased. The reason being that if people went out and still bought G rated cars post-July, knowing of the high price, then if they can pay €2000 - why not let them pay €3000 or more? .

A similar arguement could be constructed that if someone can afford to spend €65,000 on a full spec 520d, why let them away with only €150 a year road tax? There's nothing they can do but punish everyone. I think they might add 5% to all tax bands maybe to claw some back, now that they realise that half the country is paying less road tax than they were before.
There's more to be made elsewhere though. I'd have no problem with them increasing the higher income tax bracket, or even introducing another one for 6 figure earners would be fairer. Ditch that artist tax-free ****. They'll make changes to the building industry, maybe first time buyers or something, but it'll be in the favour of buyers to try and get a trickle of sales back into the housing market. Fags and booze are going to get walloped.

Biro

superjosh9 wrote: »

I still can't believe they guaranteed the banks. With what money are they doing this exactly? Oh wait..!

That's the thing. If they never did that, there was a high chance of at least one of the banks folding. That'd cause mayhem with the Irish economy. By saying what they said they immediately reduced the risk of it ever happening. It's kind of like a poker move. It's quite clever really, now people in UK are investing in Irish banks.

faceman

Increase the tax on the higher emmission rate vehicles and also introduce a "height" tax on non commercial, tall or wide vehicles used in cities such as SUV's.

smash

superjosh9 wrote: »

I'd say that bands will stay the same but that the tax/band will change.

I think that the G band will be increased. The reason being that if people went out and still bought G rated cars post-July, knowing of the high price, then if they can pay €2000 - why not let them pay €3000 or more? I'd rather they did this than increase the price on the A-D bands.

E, F, G should all be increased.

They have between €2.8 and €9 Billion to make up, have to do it somewhere.

If they aren't getting the money that they were getting from the Automotive side, which they aren't, then they have to find it elsewhere. After VRT/Road-Tax, the only other place is probably going to be petrol. I think they are going to tax the hell out of it. I see BIG increases here.

It's all very sad.

And say good by to public Healthcare and Education! Yeh!!

A$$HOLES.

E, F, G should be increased... are you for real? it's already a rip off the way it is. A lot of cars as low as 1.8 are paying double the tax they would have last year and you want that increased?

WTF are you on.....

siralfalot

steve06 wrote: »

E, F, G should be increased... are you for real? it's already a rip off the way it is. A lot of cars as low as 1.8 are paying double the tax they would have last year and you want that increased?

WTF are you on.....

+1

superjosh9

Biro wrote: »

That's the thing. If they never did that, there was a high chance of at least one of the banks folding. That'd cause mayhem with the Irish economy. By saying what they said they immediately reduced the risk of it ever happening. It's kind of like a poker move. It's quite clever really, now people in UK are investing in Irish banks.

They're taking the chance that they won't need to honour the guarantee. I might as well have made the guarantee. If they were taking over the bank(s) as in Northern Rock situation, then fair enough. But this is totally different.

There was no reason to do it. The banks are simply businesses, granted with more importance to the Irish public. Indeed, they don't even know exactly how much money they are dealing with.

Now we'll have to hope that nothing happens, because if it does, well then you can watch the taxes. And you can be sure that major businesses will be the worst hit. And that spells more unemployment and chaos alike.

If things go bad, that decision could have been the final back-breaker of the economy. There was a reason that other countries weren't doing the same, Greece and Germany are obviously in trouble.

Hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

@Steve06 I was thinking what they might do, not what I want. I'd be against any change - but do you really think that will happen? So get off your horse.

Biro

superjosh9 wrote: »

They're taking the chance that they won't need to honour the guarantee. I might as well have made the guarantee. If they were taking over the bank(s) as in Northern Rock situation, then fair enough. But this is totally different.

There was no reason to do it. The banks are simply businesses, granted with more importance to the Irish public. Indeed, they don't even know exactly how much money they are dealing with.

Now we'll have to hope that nothing happens, because if it does, well then you can watch the taxes. And you can be sure that major businesses will be the worst hit. And that spells more unemployment and chaos alike.

If things go bad, that decision could have been the final back-breaker of the economy. There was a reason that other countries weren't doing the same, Greece and Germany are obviously in trouble.

Hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

@Steve06 I was thinking what they might do, not what I want. I'd be against any change - but do you really think that will happen? So get off your horse.

So honestly, do you think that if the banks went wallop without this Government backing that everything would still be rosey? No Government can let the banks go, it's the worst thing that can happen.

E92

Gypo wrote: »

I don't understand this , if diesels produce 13% more CO2 for every litre burned, are they not in effect taxed for this already?

Funnily enough they are not; diesel is taxed at 6 c less per litre than petrol in spite of being 13% more polluting of CO2 per litre burned(than petrol) and the fact that petrol is far better for our health and air quality(diesel fumes cause cancer). IIRC petrol has an excise of around 44.3 cent per litre, while diesel has an excise of around 38.3 cent per litre. I am suggesting that the either the excise on petrol be reduced to around 33.9 cent per litre(though really I'd be in favour of it being lower than that because it is better on other non CO2 pollutants too) or alternatively that we increase the excise to around 50.1 cent per litre.

I know I'm not going to get a lot of support for my proposal but nevertheless if we really DO care about CO2 and of far more importance to me is if we don't want to be overloading our health service even more so than it already is and value our health, then we need to stop the shameless and irresponsible promotion of diesel in passenger cars. Petrol is flawed too, but far less flawed than diesel.

Petrol is a much cleaner burning fuel than diesel; the fact that you have to burn as much as 30% more of it than diesel in a car does not change this for a second.

A 50 mpg petrol is as good as a 56.5 mpg diesel for the planet, but vastly superior for our lungs and the quality of air we breathe(the EU is far more leniant on emission standards with diesels than they are with petrols to the point that a Euro 6 diesel, which will be mandatory from September 2014 is only as clean as a euro 4 petrol, a standard introduced in September 2005, in other words they're giving diesels 9 years to catch up to petrols, and needless to say the standards for petrols will have gotten tougher in the intervening period.

superjosh9

Biro wrote: »

So honestly, do you think that if the banks went wallop without this Government backing that everything would still be rosey? No Government can let the banks go, it's the worst thing that can happen.

Our government is outta cash! There is no guarantee! If *one or a few* banks go, yes people will be screwed. But now if they go, *everyone* is screwed because of the long-term damage that it will be cause. You'll be paying for it still in 50 years time!

peasant

Could we possibly stick to the motoring side of things and leave the banking issues to the releveant fora?

Thanks

superjosh9

It was entirely relevant to this thread Peasant, as the money that doesn't come from the automotive side has to come from somewhere else, and vice-versa.

I'll leave, don't lock it.

pburns

I don't think they can change the tax bands so soon but it was a massive mis-calculation. €150 tax and measly VRT on a 520d constitutes a loophole! Not the BMW driver's fault - the beancounters ****ed up in underestimating the surge of low CO2 cars about to hit the market.

They can make a start by introducing a % increase across the board. Most people who bought a new car in 08 (myself included) are getting too good a deal on road tax...

positron

So is it the general consensus then that the VRT might go up soon? Should those who are currently looking to buy one from the UK should just hurry up and buy before before budget?

peasant

I could possibly see a different way of calculating motortax emerging from this.

A combination of the old and new system in that the CO rating becomes a multiplicating factor of the old cc rate so that a small cc band B car is going to be cheaper than a big engined band B car ...or something like that.

galwaytt

pburns wrote: »

I don't think they can change the tax bands so soon

of course they can !! - they did a u-turn on the pre-08's inside the space of (2?) months already, so embarrassment won't be holding them back, that's for sure....

...but it was a massive mis-calculation. €150 tax and measly VRT on a 520d constitutes a loophole! Not the BMW driver's fault - the beancounters ****ed up in underestimating the surge of low CO2 cars about to hit the market.

++1. I think 40W is about to fall on his sword on this one......and Cowan will be the guy to push him........they absolutely gave away a fortune on this, and the R-word is the perfect excuse for them to recoup it. That's my prediction, anyhoo. Which raises an interesting point.........if they do do something like that, then they will have proven with stroke of the pen, that the 'environment' comes a poor second to Revenue (which we all know anyway..), but I wonder if this latest sacrifice of the Green manifesto will have any political repercussions.......mmm, interesting.....

They can make a start by introducing a % increase across the board. Most people who bought a new car in 08 (myself included) are getting too good a deal on road tax...

I think the old system might go up a %, but the newer ones much higher - in fact, probably close to bringing them back in line with the older system...........

interesting times, interesting times..........

I wonder does Ivan Yates take bets on the budget.......??

E92

peasant wrote: »

A combination of the old and new system in that the CO rating becomes a multiplicating factor of the old cc rate so that a small cc band B car is going to be cheaper than a big engined band B car ...or something like that.

But then that would go against the principle of encouraging people to buy a greener option(well when I say greener I mean lower CO2, not actually greener because that would require promoting the green pump rather than the black one).

When the VRT changes were announced last November John Gormley made particular reference to the fact that the Greens wanted a CO2 only system and not a part engine size/ part CO2 FF were thinking of.

As for the idea of hiking up the annual motor tax rates as per the 520d with 136 g/km CO2 going back towards the old levels, well if they do that then that will make petrol versions of cars like the Fiesta, Yaris etc cost the same as a 2.0 under the old system, and I highly doubt that the Government wants to make small cars an unattractive owning proposition.

What I could definately see is a widening of the road tax bill between band A and band B, somehow I don't think saving €50 on a bill of €150 per annum is really going to persuade people to go for a band A rather than a band B car, particularly when band A cars are either low power diesel(for the most part) or hopelessly low power petrols, either way it's a very small amount of money relatively speaking.

Definately the thing about taxing diesel more is a possibility, while one half of me would like to see the idea happen because of my opposition to diesel, another half of me knows that this would promote low power 1.6 petrol Paddy special family saloons once again, and I'd really be hoping we can move away from that and get proper versions of cars.

I also know that this would make Gormless a hypocrite as well.

mick.fr

People ain't buying car, it is not gonna change anytime soon, so what the hell increasing VRT is gonna change?
A better option to raise cash, even if I don't like it, would be to increase taxes on gas.

Berty

I pay insurance which of courses differs with everybody, €500 tax per year and around €85 a week on diesel. I think I pay enough to people and the government is surely taking a nice chunk out of my outgoings to feed its habit.

A habit of paying chief executives bonus's of up to €3.5m each. How many is there again? Around 7 execs? But there are not enough beds and there is always pay freezes and recruitment freezes. I wonder why.

And there is Bertie driving around for the rest of his life with a chaffeur driven car. Madness!

Willie O'Dea has a car and you never see him in it. Want to see Willie O'Dea. Drive down the dock road in Limerick any Sunday morning. He is strolling along in his long trenchcoat. Actually, that sounds very worrying............thats where the ladies of the night work. Is he actually.......................

heyjude

I'll be staggered if petrol/diesel taxes aren't increased by 5-10c per litre in the budget(I bet they're glad we went metric, a 10c per litre increase would be 45c per gallon!), but if Lenihan describes such an increase as anything other than a simple tax raising matter, I'm gonna chuck the remote out the window and if he calls it a green tax, then the TV's going out too. Why can't they just tell the truth....the coffers are empty we need some quick cash and motorists are an easy mark, oh and yes, screw the effect such an increase will have on inflation.

They might increase the insurance levy and motor tax rates too. Bad news all round

Sandwich

E92 wrote: »

Hopefully they will tax diesel at a rate reflecting the fact that it burns 13% more CO2 per litre than petrol.

13% more CO2/l, but diesel consumption 25% less than petrol l/km with equivalent power engines. Net diesel CO2 emissions 10% less than petrol per km. Fairer environmentally to increase the price of petrol.

Darragh29

I'd say that anyone driving an SUV is going to be taking it up the arse in this budget, Range Rovers, X5's, VW Touaregs, Porche, etc. Kind of not unfair either I think, if they have the money for these hummers, then I don't see the problem with leaning on these folks when the chips are down...

E92

Sandwich wrote: »

13% more CO2/l, but diesel consumption 25% less than petrol l/km with equivalent power engines. Net diesel CO2 emissions 10% less than petrol per km. Fairer environmentally to increase the price of petrol.

Why should we be trying to promote something that kills 80,000 Europeans and 21,000 Americans a year over something that kills 10,000 Americans a year, and that's in a country where nobody drives a diesel and car usage is far higher than it is over here in Europe?

And even on the environmental thing taxing diesel at a lower rate than petrol means that you have to go for a much lower CO2 car for petrol than you have to for diesel to make the numbers work, even though petrol is vastly cleaner than diesel?

smash

Darragh29 wrote: »

I'd say that anyone driving an SUV is going to be taking it up the arse in this budget, Range Rovers, X5's, VW Touaregs, Porche, etc. Kind of not unfair either I think, if they have the money for these hummers, then I don't see the problem with leaning on these folks when the chips are down...

sure, someone works hard for their money so they can buy luxuries and then you think it's fair to take their money back from them!!!

This is the problem with Ireland - it's easier to sit back, get a council house and do as little as possible and claim as much as you can and let people who actually work really hard pay the way.... load of rubbish, I hate that attitude!

If someone works hard and buys a Ferrari, why should they be penalised for the hard work they've put in? Why on earth should they pay for everyone else? In times like these, they're the ones who've put in the work and should now be able to sit back and relax and enjoy the luxuries they've worked so hard to get!

People should not have to pay for doing something right!

Darragh29

steve06 wrote: »

sure, someone works hard for their money so they can buy luxuries and then you think it's fair to take their money back from them!!!

This is the problem with Ireland - it's easier to sit back, get a council house and do as little as possible and claim as much as you can and let people who actually work really hard pay the way.... load of rubbish, I hate that attitude!

If someone works hard and buys a Ferrari, why should they be penalised for the hard work they've put in? Why on earth should they pay for everyone else? In times like these, they're the ones who've put in the work and should now be able to sit back and relax and enjoy the luxuries they've worked so hard to get!

People should not have to pay for doing something right!

Well most people I see driving X5's and overpriced cars, are earning no more than me. If it's a luxury, tax it, if it's a necessity, leave it alone.

ninty9er

If I could get 5 minutes with Lenihan before Tuesday (unfortunately I won't be in the same room as him until Friday week:mad:) I'd ask him to put a % surcharge on NoX and CO emissions so that there's afairer measure of environmental efficiency than just Co2 and reduce the wighting of Co2...so that for example a 1.8 Avensis (outgoing model) with 171 g/km Co2 and 0.48g/km CO and .05 g/km NOx.

so 18% for the Co2, 8% for the CO figure and 2% for the Nox....still giving 28%, but the NOx figure wil compensate for the skew to diesel in the current system.

ninty9er

steve06 wrote: »

sure, someone works hard for their money so they can buy luxuries and then you think it's fair to take their money back from them!!!

This is the problem with Ireland - it's easier to sit back, get a council house and do as little as possible and claim as much as you can and let people who actually work really hard pay the way.... load of rubbish, I hate that attitude!

If someone works hard and buys a Ferrari, why should they be penalised for the hard work they've put in? Why on earth should they pay for everyone else? In times like these, they're the ones who've put in the work and should now be able to sit back and relax and enjoy the luxuries they've worked so hard to get!

People should not have to pay for doing something right!

You don't need to buy a Ferrari with your hard earned cash, and just because you drive a Ferrari doesn't mean you're completely loaded, you could be a drug dealer on the dole, doesn't mean you work hard.

Darragh29

ninty9er wrote: »

If I could get 5 minutes with Lenihan before Tuesday (unfortunately I won't be in the same room as him until Friday week:mad:) I'd ask him to put a % surcharge on NoX and CO emissions so that there's afairer measure of environmental efficiency than just Co2 and reduce the wighting of Co2...so that for example a 1.8 Avensis (outgoing model) with 171 g/km Co2 and 0.48g/km CO and .05 g/km NOx.

so 18% for the Co2, 8% for the CO figure and 2% for the Nox....still giving 28%, but the NOx figure wil compensate for the skew to diesel in the current system.

NoX and CO emissions are so low that they are neglible. CO is effectively zero in any type of modern car! CO and NoX are not causing climate change, CO2 is the gas that is fu*king up our climate!?!?!

eringobragh

ninty9er wrote: »

If I could get 5 minutes with Lenihan before Tuesday (unfortunately I won't be in the same room as him until Friday week:mad:) I'd ask him to put a % surcharge on NoX and CO emissions so that there's afairer measure of environmental efficiency than just Co2 and reduce the wighting of Co2...so that for example a 1.8 Avensis (outgoing model) with 171 g/km Co2 and 0.48g/km CO and .05 g/km NOx.

so 18% for the Co2, 8% for the CO figure and 2% for the Nox....still giving 28%, but the NOx figure wil compensate for the skew to diesel in the current system.

LOL That would not work!. That would be chaos IMO. The new system is confusing enough to alot of motorists adding more figures and percentages into the mix.

As for the CO2 nonsense well in fairness were a pimple on an elephants arse. As long as the worlds biggest polluters (America, India, China, Etc) keep going the way there going I doubt it matters what any of us are driving.

Gormley can keep his bicycle and his Toyota Smug.

Darragh29

Also, I don't know of a single garage that tests for NoX. The NCT can't test for it, because there is no need to.

kikel

Whatever about increasing taxes on the average motorist that is already under pressure. How about introducing a new way of creating revenue. Introduce personalised registration plates. This is big business in the UK and maybe this would be an ideal opportunity to introduce it here. I know many on here will be disgusted by the taught of it, but it would be a flamboyant tax and a tax of those that wanna pay it.

smash

Darragh29 wrote: »

Well most people I see driving X5's and overpriced cars, are earning no more than me. If it's a luxury, tax it, if it's a necessity, leave it alone.

Why should you be taxed on a luxury? not everyone wants to drive 1.4ltr Micras ffs!

To a lot of people a car is a luxury and not just seen as an a-b mode of transport. I don't see the government downgrading their fleet of A8's to drive smart cars so why should the public?

L1011

steve06 wrote: »

Why should you be taxed on a luxury? not everyone wants to drive 1.4ltr Micras ffs!

To a lot of people a car is a luxury and not just seen as an a-b mode of transport. I don't see the government downgrading their fleet of A8's to drive smart cars so why should the public?

Thats the entire basis of our sales tax system - 21% VAT on "luxuries", 0% on "nessecities" and 13.5% on whatever they want it to be on...

smash

What I'm saying is that, you pay tax when buying the car, you pay tax on fuel, you pay motor tax and now people are saying that the motor tax on these cars should be put even higher because "if you can afford a big car, then you can afford to pay extra for tax".... It's an attitude I don't agree with at all, the tax has already gone up and shouldn't be put up again!

If it is put up again it wont only be affecting the X5's etc which people seem to be obsessed about mentioning - it will affect a lot of cars with a lot smaller engines. Lotus Elise for example!

Anan1

steve06 wrote: »

What I'm saying is that, you pay tax when buying the car, you pay tax on fuel, you pay motor tax and now people are saying that the motor tax on these cars should be put even higher because "if you can afford a big car, then you can afford to pay extra for tax".... It's an attitude I don't agree with at all, the tax has already gone up and shouldn't be put up again!

Slightly OT, but if you were to tax all cars equally then in real terms you'd be hitting poorer people harder than the rich. More taxation for someone on a low income can mean less food, clothing, heat, etc - for someone on a high income, it may just mean fewer options on the BMW.

Cyrus

Darragh29 wrote: »

I'd say that anyone driving an SUV is going to be taking it up the arse in this budget, Range Rovers, X5's, VW Touaregs, Porche, etc. Kind of not unfair either I think, if they have the money for these hummers, then I don't see the problem with leaning on these folks when the chips are down...

who do you think they are leaning on as it is. People in work are contributing to the exchequer, the more they earn the more they pay,

Bugrudgery stinks, get over it

Cyrus

Darragh29 wrote: »

Well most people I see driving X5's and overpriced cars, are earning no more than me. If it's a luxury, tax it, if it's a necessity, leave it alone.

how in gods name can you know that

smash

Anan1 wrote: »

Slightly OT, but if you were to tax all cars equally then in real terms you'd be hitting poorer people harder than the rich.

I never said tax all cars equally, I just don't agree with putting up the tax again on cars that have big engines or higher CO2 output. If it was to be fair then the prices would be up at the pump and down on motor tax so you pay for usage!

Anan1 wrote: »

More taxation for someone on a low income can mean less food, clothing, heat, etc

Yea and it's already gone up this year so the government have already hit people on low incomes. In fact they're forcing people to buy new cars, which causes more damage to the environment and the economy because people can't afford it!

Anan1 wrote: »

for someone on a high income, it may just mean fewer options on the BMW.

Why should they have to settle for less than they want? If they've worked for it, they should be able to get it and not pay massive yearly tax's for it! And why are people focusing on BMW's all the time?

Biro

steve06 wrote: »

sure, someone works hard for their money so they can buy luxuries and then you think it's fair to take their money back from them!!!

This is the problem with Ireland - it's easier to sit back, get a council house and do as little as possible and claim as much as you can and let people who actually work really hard pay the way.... load of rubbish, I hate that attitude!

If someone works hard and buys a Ferrari, why should they be penalised for the hard work they've put in? Why on earth should they pay for everyone else? In times like these, they're the ones who've put in the work and should now be able to sit back and relax and enjoy the luxuries they've worked so hard to get!

People should not have to pay for doing something right!

Are you in Government? Because it's THIS attitude that's rampant in every Government we ever had. Reward the wealthy and screw the working class. That's the way it always was, and I don't get it. Are you honestly telling me that a wealthy person definately works far harder than someone not wealthy? If you believe that then you're a fool. The whole reason we have a Government system is to make all the necessary services available to us, either without paying or paying a small amount.
Would you prefer that they introduced education fees and abolished VRT on Ferraris? Make you feel great wouldn't it? Cowen buys his nice new Ferrari cause it's now affordable for him while you look for a 2nd job to send your third child to school... wow... how fair! If you can afford luxuries then you can afford to pay taxes on them. Most people work just as hard as the next person, some people get lucky breaks, others don't. Reward the lucky with tax breaks? What a sham. Bono and his kind paying no tax... cause he deserves it more than a nurse in the childrens hospital, struggling to keep a childs spirits up but knowing he won't see Christmas?
It's time to kick the country into shape. Foreigners coming over here to live off our taxes because this is the biggest hand out country (and I'm not talking about all foreigners before I get lambasted... I've no problems with them coming over here for education or work), house built for some young one who gets herself knocked up and then letting the boyfriend live there for free, it's all arseways. The people who are the wealthiest and the people who are the laziest get the biggest rewards. Giving away free Gas to shell, giving away tolls to companies then buying the roads back of them... the list is so long! But no, it's far easier to screw the working class.

E92

Cyrus wrote: »

Bugrudgery stinks, get over it

+1.

If people can afford something then good luck to them.

The only time I begudge anyone is whenever I see them buying something to keep up with the Joneses. If people are buying something because they actually want to buy it for them and not to impress the neighbours/friends/relatives etc and are fortunate enough in life to have the kind of money that can buy a nice big powerful car then I think that's great, and I wish more people had an interest in cars like that.

Cyrus

Biro wrote: »

Are you in Government? Because it's THIS attitude that's rampant in every Government we ever had. Reward the wealthy and screw the working class. That's the way it always was, and I don't get it. Are you honestly telling me that a wealthy person definately works far harder than someone not wealthy? If you believe that then you're a fool. The whole reason we have a Government system is to make all the necessary services available to us, either without paying or paying a small amount.
Would you prefer that they introduced education fees and abolished VRT on Ferraris? Make you feel great wouldn't it? Cowen buys his nice new Ferrari cause it's now affordable for him while you look for a 2nd job to send your third child to school... wow... how fair! If you can afford luxuries then you can afford to pay taxes on them. Most people work just as hard as the next person, some people get lucky breaks, others don't. Reward the lucky with tax breaks? What a sham. Bono and his kind paying no tax... cause he deserves it more than a nurse in the childrens hospital, struggling to keep a childs spirits up but knowing he won't see Christmas?
It's time to kick the country into shape. Foreigners coming over here to live off our taxes because this is the biggest hand out country (and I'm not talking about all foreigners before I get lambasted... I've no problems with them coming over here for education or work), house built for some young one who gets herself knocked up and then letting the boyfriend live there for free, it's all arseways. The people who are the wealthiest and the people who are the laziest get the biggest rewards. Giving away free Gas to shell, giving away tolls to companies then buying the roads back of them... the list is so long! But no, it's far easier to screw the working class.

screw the working class, are you for real?

the working class in ireland have it better than in most other places, free bloody everything.

You think people that have gotten on in life and earn more money were lucky? are you off your rocker.

Of course this is the kind of sentiment that leads to people voting for sinn fein :mad::(

peasant

emmm ...topic is that way ...

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>

Biro

Cyrus wrote: »

screw the working class, are you for real?

the working class in ireland have it better than in most other places, free bloody everything.

You think people that have gotten on in life and earn more money were lucky? are you off your rocker.

Of course this is the kind of sentiment that leads to people voting for sinn fein :mad::(

Honestly now.... what the hell are you talking about?
I still can't see where I said that.

smash

God, there's so much wrong with your rant there!

Biro wrote: »

Are you in Government? Because it's THIS attitude that's rampant in every Government we ever had.

No I'm not.

Biro wrote: »

Are you honestly telling me that a wealthy person definately works far harder than someone not wealthy? If you believe that then you're a fool.

no not all the time but most of the people with a lot of money made it themselves without help so why should the country lean on them? and I'm not a fool!

Biro wrote: »

Would you prefer that they introduced education fees and abolished VRT on Ferraris? Make you feel great wouldn't it?

No, I didn't say that and I never mentioned VRT!

Biro wrote: »

Cowen buys his nice new Ferrari cause it's now affordable for him while you look for a 2nd job to send your third child to school... wow... how fair!

Cowan wouldn't fit into a Ferrari

Biro wrote: »

If you can afford luxuries then you can afford to pay taxes on them.

But why should your tax's be so much higher than everyone else just because you treat yourself?

Biro wrote: »

Most people work just as hard as the next person, some people get lucky breaks, others don't. Reward the lucky with tax breaks? What a sham.

I never once mention tax breaks did I?

Biro wrote: »

Bono and his kind paying no tax... cause he deserves it more than a nurse in the childrens hospital, struggling to keep a childs spirits up but knowing he won't see Christmas?

I never said that and I totally disagree with with that statement. I personally know the **** that nurses go through and they should be payed a hell of a lot more for what they do!

Biro wrote: »

It's time to kick the country into shape. Foreigners coming over here to live off our taxes because this is the biggest hand out country (and I'm not talking about all foreigners before I get lambasted... I've no problems with them coming over here for education or work), house built for some young one who gets herself knocked up and then letting the boyfriend live there for free, it's all arseways. The people who are the wealthiest and the people who are the laziest get the biggest rewards.

that was my point, but I think the wealthy people should be allowed enjoy their money, the lazy should be kicked out but they're not because they have it too easy. Wealthy people should be allowed have it easy without the country leaning on them because they've worked for it. (most of them)

Biro wrote: »

Giving away free Gas to shell, giving away tolls to companies then buying the roads back of them... the list is so long! But no, it's far easier to screw the working class.

I never said screw the working class, I said stop leaning on the wealthy... stand on your own feet and make a difference instead of waiting for someone else to fix things just because they have money!


If we were all to subscribe to your way of thinking then the rich should be tax'd to hell and the working class should get a lot more benefits - this discourages people from making money and so everyone becomes lazy so they can get stuff for free! It's the typical Irish attitude and if you made a lot of money tomorrow I can guarantee your attitude would change pretty quickly!

pburns

I think the government lost a lot of tax/VRT revenue by mis-calculating the amount they would take from the new CO2-based system. I mean €150 road-tax for a new 5-series:eek:! It's not the buyer's fault, in fact they should be commended for playing the system. But maybe the government needed a few petrolhead 'consultants' to brief them on the pletora of low-CO2 models that were waiting in the wings to take advantage of the new system.

They could easily introduce a major increase within each of the existing bands and most 08 buyers would still be paying less than they were under the old system.

(Yes, I guess I am saying we should be paying more tax:rolleyes:...)

kikel wrote: »

How about introducing a new way of creating revenue. Introduce personalised registration plates. This is big business in the UK and maybe this would be an ideal opportunity to introduce it here. I know many on here will be disgusted by the taught of it, but it would be a flamboyant tax and a tax of those that wanna pay it.

I think this is a good idea - in theory at least. It would be of limited value though given falling sales, worsening conditions and the fact that our boring plate system makes a play on words extremely difficult.

As for begrudgery - I think it'll be interesting to compare the threads that appear here over the next year or so with the messages that have been posted hitherto ...