Over valued for VRT - ROS

dunser

Hi

I was listing to Radio 1 the other day and they were on about VRT on line system about cars, they were bascially saying that the Revenue are over pricing cars and that you can get a refund as the open market price of 2nd hand cars has fallen so much over the past 4 months. I have just bought a 2007 C200 Merc from UK with 9k miles for €24k and if I include VRT quote on the Web it comes in at €34k. I checked with all Merc Garages here and they could not even give me a 2006 C 200 for that Price. Has anyone heard anything as I am about to pay the VRT this week

Cheers

Ps if any one is interested in Dealer where I bought it PM me there are some great Bargins to be got over in UK

Gypo

Hi,

What exact model have you bought, or even better what was the OMSP on revenue.ie when you calculated the VRT?

In order to have a legitimate appeal you would need to be able to provide evidence that the OMSP is not representative of the actual price the car is selling for on the open market. Exactly how you would provide this evidence, I'm not quite sure, but I'm sure other posters on here would be able to give you a pointer.

You should also be aware that the price quoted on revenue.ie might not be what you will be charged by revenue, depending on the spec of the car.

masseyno9

Just an idea but could you get a stock list or some other form of written confirmation of asking prices and/or selling prices from dealers. I presume buy and sell or autotrader ads wouldn't be deemed official enough for the revenue...even though they are the true reflection of OMSP.

boardsie08

dunser wrote: »

Hi

I was listing to Radio 1 the other day and they were on about VRT on line system about cars,

Don't suppose you remember which show this was on? Is it still on the rte website? Wouldn't mind hearing it.

Car-dealer

Hi Folks

of all cars imported and VRTed last year only around 1% of people challenged the Open Market Selling Rate (OMSP) and of these around 90% were successful.

My advice would be for everyone that imports to challenge and appeal - just find car adds with prices - and make sure to say these are only asking prices (not acheived prices - as achieved prices are lower).

If you appeal you will most likely get money back - the whole vrt system is a scam, shouldnt even exist, but if they are going to take your money, do your best to fight for some of it back, as they are robbing people blind with over-inflated prices.

The guy on the radio the other day (radio 1) from SIMI saying SIMI had no part to play in fixing prices with the Revenue - well I dont believe him! The whole thing is a fix - and this coming from a car dealer. A small but fair one at that!

Anan1

Car-dealer wrote: »

Hi Folks

of all cars imported and VRTed last year only around 1% of people challenged the Open Market Selling Rate (OMSP) and of these around 90% were successful.

Car-dealer wrote: »

If you appeal you will most likely get money back

Can anyone else see the flaw in the logic here?

madds

No? 9 out of every 10 people who appealed got some sort of return from the Revenue.

Gypo

Me neither! Maybe I'm missing something, what were you thinking Anan1?

Anan1

madds wrote: »

No? 9 out of every 10 people who appealed got some sort of return from the Revenue.

Think harder.

dunser

The Progam was Derek Mooney on Radio one. Cant Rem which day it was.
I am hoping to Register the car on Thursday as I reckon the Goverment will do something to increase it in the Budget on Wed Week. Can anyone recommend how I get the value of the car for VRT. I was going to chance driving the car on UK plates as the company I work for are based in UK and I could use Addess of my Aunt. The whole VRT thing is huge scam and is really illegal in the eyes of the EU. someone should challenge it!!!!!

Esel

90% of appeals are successful = If you appeal, you will most likely get money back.

Or are we all out of step except Anan1?

nogoodnamesleft

I imported last year and never knew that you could appeal what the revenue charged for VRT. How would someone go about appealing the VRT that they paid last year? Or is it possible since a period of time has passed since the VRT was paid?

Esel

You have two months to lodge an appeal.

Oilrig

Anan, any chance you could quit the pseudo cryptic bullsh*t and state your case?

Anan1

Oilrig wrote: »

Anan, any chance you could quit the pseudo cryptic bullsh*t and state your case?

Use your head. 1% of people currently appeal. 99% don't. Do you honestly think that those 99% would have the same 90% success rate, if they chose to appeal, as the 1%? Or might it be that the 1% appeal because they are the ones with particularly compelling grounds for appeal?

Esel

Use yours. 99% either couldn't be bothered, or don't know about the appeal process, or don't feel badly done by.

So, if more people who feel badly done by do appeal, do you really think they have less than a 50:50 chance of being successful? That's what your 'logic' suggests.

Anan1

esel wrote: »

Use yours. 99% either couldn't be bothered, or don't know about the appeal process, or don't feel badly done by.

Sure, but we have no idea in what proportions.

esel wrote: »

So, if more people who feel badly done by do appeal, do you really think they have less than a 50:50 chance of being successful? That's what your 'logic' suggests.

I don't know what their chances of success are. Neither do you, a 1% non-representative sample can't tell anyone that.

Which makes this -

esel wrote: »

90% of appeals are successful = If you appeal, you will most likely get money back.

bullsh1t.

Esel

Ah, right so, Ted.

Anan1

Like I said, Dougal, it's not rocket science.

It BeeMee

dunser wrote: »

I have just bought a 2007 C200 Merc from UK with 9k miles for €24k and if I include VRT quote on the Web it comes in at €34k. I checked with all Merc Garages here and they could not even give me a 2006 C 200 for that Price. Has anyone heard anything as I am about to pay the VRT this week

So the revenue are undervaluing your car?
Why would you want to appeal that?

Mylow

dunser wrote: »

Hi
I have just bought a 2007 C200 Merc from UK with 9k miles for €24k and if I include VRT quote on the Web it comes in at €34k. I checked with all Merc Garages here and they could not even give me a 2006 C 200 for that Price. Has anyone heard anything as I am about to pay the VRT this week

Now you need to add the options to the value of car.
1. Metallic Paint
2. ???
3. ???

Revenue inspect 'premium' branded cars like Audi, BMW, Mercedes for optional extra's. They will take the VIN number and send its to Rosslare to check what options were originally fitted to the car. They will then come back with revised OMSP. You will then pay VRT on that. I am currently waiting on revenue to come back with revised OMSP to me. Should hopefully hear today. If I were you I would keep an eye out on similar spec cars and advertised selling price as you maybe in for a shock when you see revised price, it maybe be more then the prices advertised online and in papers.

Sandwich

Last year is a lot different from this year in the car market as we (and motor dealers especially) know. This year is the first time ROS VRT have ever had to deal with falling prices.

Anyone following the ROS valuations in detail over the last six months?
Has there been a decrease in the valuations?
Do they determine values from advertised prices or actual traded sales?

drunkmonkey

Sandwich wrote: »

Anyone following the ROS valuations in detail over the last six months?
Has there been a decrease in the valuations?

I have,

My car had an OMSP of €14500 in July
In september it had an OMSP of €19,700
In October it now has an OMSP of €17,600

It's like those shops you go into that jack up all the prices before a sale and then reduce them to prices higher than they were selling before the sale...

jimmycrackcorm

Anan1 wrote: »

Sure, but we have no idea in what proportions.

I don't know what their chances of success are. Neither do you, a 1% non-representative sample can't tell anyone that.

Which makes this - bullsh1t.

I'll dispute that - if 9 out of 10 appeals are successful and one more person appeals then statistically that person still has a 90% or as near as chance of success also.

Also you don't take into account that those people who do appeal are at least 90% justified in looking for an appeal as they have researched the market prices and found a significant error in pricing; which is why they appeal - DOH! Hence, logically, everyone who actually appeals still has a 90% chance of success.

Anan1

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I'll dispute that - if 9 out of 10 appeals are successful and one more person appeals then statistically that person still has a 90% or as near as chance of success also.

Also you don't take into account that those people who do appeal are at least 90% justified in looking for an appeal as they have researched the market prices and found a significant error in pricing; which is why they appeal - DOH! Hence, logically, everyone who actually appeals still has a 90% chance of success.

This may well have made perfect sense at 3.42am, but it makes no sense now.;)

dunser

The Dam VRT ...... Yesterday I got my VRT quote on web as being €10k, they did not have the specific model on their list but guess what its on it today and its €2k more. What feckin .........

Tigger

It BeeMee wrote: »

So the revenue are undervaluing your car?
Why would you want to appeal that?

thats how i read it too

are the rest of you seeing something we aren't

Guy:Incognito

Tigger wrote: »

thats how i read it too

are the rest of you seeing something we aren't

Nope. I read it like that too. Was going to say it then convinced myself I was missing something.

Anan1

Stekelly wrote: »

Nope. I read it like that too. Was going to say it then convinced myself I was missing something.

Me too, but after my experience with the whole 1% = everybody thing I just wasn't bothered getting into it.;)

Blunder

Would you have grounds for appeal based on the Level of Emmissions?

I bought a car recently up the north. I checked the ROS website for the VRT before I bought the car and it stated the VRT at €1,800 with the emmissions at 129g/km(I think). All was fine and Dandy until I went into the Tax office to pay the VRT and yer one said that there was a slight difference in the emmissions on the MOT cert and the VRT enquiry. The MOT cert stated the emmissions as being 168g/km. This put the VRT up to €2,800. After some haggling and changing of details the price came down to €2,500. After this I went back to the Manufacturer of the car to check what their emmissions are and also the manual in the car and they both state that the emmisions to be 129g/km.I was thinking of getting the car checked somewhere for the emmissions to see what they are coming up to be. Since this I have had the car back to the dealer due to a problem with the Exhaust system of the car and I was thinkin this may have lead to an incorrect reading in the MOT.

So Back to my original question, Are emmissions a basis for appealing the price of the VRT?

Esel

Anan1 wrote: »

Me too, but after my experience with the whole 1% = everybody thing I just wasn't bothered getting into it.;)

I am interested in your appealing theory, and would like to subscribe to your newsletter. 99% of posters are not, and would not. :pac:

Anan1

esel wrote: »

I am interested in your appealing theory, and would like to subscribe to your newsletter. 99% of posters are not, and would not. :pac:

No point getting crabby with me, Dougal, take it up with your maths teacher.;)

Anan1

Blunder wrote: »

So Back to my original question, Are emmissions a basis for appealing the price of the VRT?

If you could prove that the VRT charged was based on an incorrect CO2 figure then yes. It's not the actual CO2 emmissions of that particular car that count, though, it's the registered figure for that exact model of car.

Guy:Incognito

Blunder wrote: »

Would you have grounds for appeal based on the Level of Emmissions?

I bought a car recently up the north. I checked the ROS website for the VRT before I bought the car and it stated the VRT at €1,800 with the emmissions at 129g/km(I think). All was fine and Dandy until I went into the Tax office to pay the VRT and yer one said that there was a slight difference in the emmissions on the MOT cert and the VRT enquiry. The MOT cert stated the emmissions as being 168g/km. This put the VRT up to €2,800. After some haggling and changing of details the price came down to €2,500. After this I went back to the Manufacturer of the car to check what their emmissions are and also the manual in the car and they both state that the emmisions to be 129g/km.I was thinking of getting the car checked somewhere for the emmissions to see what they are coming up to be. Since this I have had the car back to the dealer due to a problem with the Exhaust system of the car and I was thinkin this may have lead to an incorrect reading in the MOT.

So Back to my original question, Are emmissions a basis for appealing the price of the VRT?

Whats the car?

Mylow

Blunder wrote: »

Would you have grounds for appeal based on the Level of Emmissions?

I bought a car recently up the north. I checked the ROS website for the VRT before I bought the car and it stated the VRT at €1,800 with the emmissions at 129g/km(I think). All was fine and Dandy until I went into the Tax office to pay the VRT and yer one said that there was a slight difference in the emmissions on the MOT cert and the VRT enquiry. The MOT cert stated the emmissions as being 168g/km. This put the VRT up to €2,800. After some haggling and changing of details the price came down to €2,500. After this I went back to the Manufacturer of the car to check what their emmissions are and also the manual in the car and they both state that the emmisions to be 129g/km.I was thinking of getting the car checked somewhere for the emmissions to see what they are coming up to be. Since this I have had the car back to the dealer due to a problem with the Exhaust system of the car and I was thinkin this may have lead to an incorrect reading in the MOT.

So Back to my original question, Are emmissions a basis for appealing the price of the VRT?

The co2 figures are in section 4 of the V5 document. You can also get a COC for the vehicle. You should also take a look at http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/search/search.asp for co2 figures. The MOT is not the relevant document.

mick.fr

Blunder wrote: »

Would you have grounds for appeal based on the Level of Emmissions?

I bought a car recently up the north. I checked the ROS website for the VRT before I bought the car and it stated the VRT at €1,800 with the emmissions at 129g/km(I think). All was fine and Dandy until I went into the Tax office to pay the VRT and yer one said that there was a slight difference in the emmissions on the MOT cert and the VRT enquiry. The MOT cert stated the emmissions as being 168g/km. This put the VRT up to €2,800. After some haggling and changing of details the price came down to €2,500. After this I went back to the Manufacturer of the car to check what their emmissions are and also the manual in the car and they both state that the emmisions to be 129g/km.I was thinking of getting the car checked somewhere for the emmissions to see what they are coming up to be. Since this I have had the car back to the dealer due to a problem with the Exhaust system of the car and I was thinkin this may have lead to an incorrect reading in the MOT.

So Back to my original question, Are emmissions a basis for appealing the price of the VRT?

Just appeal this. Manufacturer figures are the one that should be used to determine VRT.
Don't let your hardly earned money just going through the window like that.

Period mate, do it!
1000 euro is 1000 euro...

mick.fr

dunser wrote: »

I checked with all Merc Garages here and they could not even give me a 2006 C 200 for that Price.

Tell this guy to chill out with his prices
Plenty of 2006 C200 on Carzone for less than 30k, and it is overpriced with the current situation!

Mr. Presentable

dunser wrote: »

The Dam VRT ...... Yesterday I got my VRT quote on web as being €10k, they did not have the specific model on their list but guess what its on it today and its €2k more. What feckin .........

I'd say you're still 8-10k ahead. Best of luck to you with what sounds a bona fide bargain!

Blunder

The Car is a mini cooper 1.6. The point was made to yer wan that the emmissions on the VRT website were 129g/km but she said that they had to go by any evidence that was provided to them as the website was just a guide and the MOT test cert had the emmissions at 168g/km. I'm definately going to appeal it but would just like to get some evidence together to back up the claim. The ROS website has a fairly comprehensive FAQ item for this senario however i think the emmissions are really high for this car at 168 if that is what they are.

Guy:Incognito

Blunder wrote: »

The Car is a mini cooper 1.6. The point was made to yer wan that the emmissions on the VRT website were 129g/km but she said that they had to go by any evidence that was provided to them as the website was just a guide and the MOT test cert had the emmissions at 168g/km. I'm definately going to appeal it but would just like to get some evidence together to back up the claim. The ROS website has a fairly comprehensive FAQ item for this senario however i think the emmissions are really high for this car at 168 if that is what they are.

What year is it?

According to parkers the emissions are 166 for the 01-06 and 129 for the 06 on.

Blunder

Oh right, Its a 02 alright. I'll have to check then so.

dunser

hey guess what, went down today to pay vrt and it now comes in at €12,889, they have now manages to add another 900 quid for all the extras, There was a gut there with ford Mondeo with loads of extras but they did not even inspect his car, They are such a shower of .........................

I am going to launch an appeal tomroow, i need to get some prices for garages for same car