Biden-Palin Debate

Black Swan

Early news results are coming in on the debate with more to follow. Of course, the Republicans are claiming a win, and the Democrats likewise, both along party lines.

In your opinion, how did Biden and Palin do in the debate?

Debate transcript: http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/02/debate.transcript/

Personally, I thought Biden spoke with experience, knowledge of the issues, and generally boring in his delivery. If I had not had a coffee, he could have put me to sleep. The only time he really caught my attention was when he choked up about the loss of a family member.

Biden did attempt to show his affiliation with the State of Pennsylvania, where Clinton beat Obama, and one of the major swing states in the past two presidential elections.

Palin was very different from Biden, speaking with more enthusiasm, but shallow in her answers, or not bothering to answer a question at all (e.g., Achilles heel question). She appeared to me as if running for Miss Alaska rather than VP, especially with all the winking with her eye at the cameras.

Early political pundits comment on MSNBC here:
http://hardblogger.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/10/02/1484325.aspx

Overheal

doesnt anybody sleep? i need sleep.

Short answer: neither scored big turnaround victories - it probably just galvanised people who were already leaning one way or the other. for the uncomitted, informed independent voters, i think it was a win for biden. like ive said, he got away with a lot of attacks on mccain that were not defended by palin: she ignored the attacks and switched to other issues like taxes. Some reps considered that a good move - and theyre probably right: because to defend those points she'd either have to admit biden was right, or shed have to lie.

and goodnight

Ludo

I happened to catch some of the debate including the part where Biden teared-up (two teething 11 month olds with colds is a wonderful thing...NOT!!!).

It was pretty moving but I must say Palins response was terrible. She ignored him completely and carried on with her pre-programmed talking points. Complete lack of empathy on her part and came across very badly...to me at least.

She did pretty well though as i expected. Stayed to her cue cards at all times.

What the hell was with the winking though

is_that_so

TBH I find this type of format dull and stultifying and little better than party political broadcasts.

No Palin train wreck so some people must've been disappointed.:p All very polite stuff. All "support my guy" type of thing. While she answered very few questions, neither of the Presidential candidates bothered to answer some of their questions either. They're politicians.

Biden does have the superior smug look about him even when he's behaving himself. Palin was trained and stuck to it. Thought her speaking was confident and assured and quite fluent. She attempted, understandably, to push her "experience" and get back to a comfort zone of sorts. She also went back to that "hockey mom" thing, which is her strength. Yeah the winking was odd but seeing as she was appealing to middle America not a surprise.

One thing that bugged me about both was this how many times x has voted for/against y.

From a GOP point of view there must be relief that she got through it reasonably safely and it may calm some nerves. I reckon Biden won but he didn't need to do any more than he did. Even if he had lost, the economy is currently giving McCain's campaign a bashing.

Hobbes

full unedited from CSpan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89FbCPzAsRA

watching now.

Black Swan

is_that_so wrote: »

From a GOP point of view there must be relief that she got through it reasonably safely and it may calm some nerves.

I doubt that she will interview much (if at all) with the press between now and 4 November, unless it's with someone safe like Bill O'Reilly or others with Fox News.

Dave!

Was just watching bout 35 mins this morning. I thought Palin did well to not make a fool of herself tbh. Her answers were completely vacuous and she was talking b*llocks the whole time, but she looked gorgeous (nyom nyom) and came across reasonably well. I was expecting her to be completely destroyed, but it wasn't really necessary.

Biden just did the job... Not alot of phrases jumped out, but he made good (COHERENT) points, and seemed to have an actual plan. I'd certainly feel more at ease with Biden being president than Palin, should the situation arise. He also looked quite good for an old geezer; kinda Bill Clinton-ish...?

Anywho -- did they discuss religion at all? Creationism and the likes? I'll watch the rest of it tonight.

Inquitus

Dave! wrote: »

Was just watching bout 35 mins this morning. I thought Palin did well to not make a fool of herself tbh. Her answers were completely vacuous and she was talking b*llocks the whole time, but she looked gorgeous (nyom nyom) and came across reasonably well. I was expecting her to be completely destroyed, but it wasn't really necessary.

Biden just did the job... Not alot of phrases jumped out, but he made good (COHERENT) points, and seemed to have an actual plan. I'd certainly feel more at ease with Biden being president than Palin, should the situation arise. He also looked quite good for an old geezer; kinda Bill Clinton-ish...?

Anywho -- did they discuss religion at all? Creationism and the likes? I'll watch the rest of it tonight.

The debate format was crap, and allowed Palin to just talk bollox and not answer questions as she saw fit. There was no way in such a crap debate anyone could lose, and after she set the bar so low with the Couric travesty it was nigh on impossible for her to come out worse off.

She talked complete bollox, hardly ever answered a question, and recited wrote learnt responses. Her sign off was good though, thats the only bit of the debate she won, it was punchy and well delivered, if largely just BS and hot air, like most of what she said last night.

jmayo

From what I saw of the latter stages they looked as if it was a love in.
I guess Bioden was afraid of challenging her lest he be seen as the big bullying the poor gal from the sticks sort of thing ?
It looked as if she was preprogrammed and just stuck to a set delivery.
It was very tame really.

Looking at the analysis afterwards it appears that republicans questioned would vote for a goat never mind her (yes I know a bit like some of our own party followers here in Ireland.). They see nothing wrong with her or at least are towing the party line.

As someone else mentioned they will not let her loose again, lest it is to a recorded Fox propaganda interview.

leninbenjamin

just after watching the RTE rerun.

that could hardly be called a debate. the moderator was awful. it's a bit ridiculous that she kept flooring new questions while letting the two finish their party statement on the previous topics. letting Palin talk about Afghanistan when the question was about Nuclear weapons? wtf?

overall Biden was restrained. I'd say he fairly wanted to lay into Palin at times but was afraid of a media backlash. however he did get a few notable victories, particularly as he got the last word in on the 'maverick' thing. Palin on the other hand was her typical self, albeit clearly well rehearsed. It's obvious she was once a news presenter, without a prompter she can hardly form a coherent sentence. but Biden let quite a few of her nonsensical ramblings slide so I'm not sure it will cost her anything.

Biden was the clear winner i felt, came across far better versed, better thought out and more capable. but with no clear knockout punches will the American public think so? probably not.

sidenote: anyone know what the American General in Afghanistan (can't remember his name) actually said about using the 'surge' there?

Trojan

Watched it live. I thought Biden did excellently, but he was in a no-win situation. Palin, on the other hand was complete rubbish by any normal standards, but the bar is so, so low that she couldn't lose.

Biden was a bit boring, especially at the start when he looked like he was trying to keep himself in check. Got much better towards the end of the debate.

Palin ignored about 50% of the questions as far as I could see, sticking to her debate-camp lines.

Ended up being very anti-climactic. My impression: slight Biden victory, because he couldn't actually debate her with his hands tied - he would have destroyed her if he had free reign. Neutral news channels (if any) will probably call it a draw, with GOP so thrilled that she didn't **** it up too badly that they'll call it a win.

JJ

I watched the first 1/2 of the debate so far on CNN's website. I think Biden restrained himself because last time there was a vice-presidential debate involving a woman George HW Bush got some criticism for being too aggressive. From what I saw so far Biden seems a very well polished and experienced politician while Palin loves to use those "maverick" kind of sayings that endears her to Republican hockey moms.

ziggy

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Trojan

ziggy wrote: »

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Very much so. Should have had Couric!

This picture sums up Palin's performance for me.

Hobbes

Palin did a lot better then the train wreak of the Couric interviews. Probably because it was more controlled environment. But nearly all of her answers were just parroting of the McCain camp or didn't offer anything new.

This was more clear with Foreign Policy part where Palin was clearly out of her depth. Biden didn't only explain the Obama policy but followed it up with experience.

He did a lovely rope-a-dope with his "McCain said he wouldn't even sit down with the Spanish President!" and Palins face was clearly thinking "you bastard".

Her comments of "Hockey Mom" and "Joe Sixpack" where just annoying. From what I could see she had key phrases to look out for and just auto-respond.

The only thing I can say is why isn't Biden running for president? His part talking about his kids and late wife made him look more human.

BlitzKrieg

yeah I admit I warmed up to Biden alot by the end of the debate and would (if I was American) vote for him more so then anyone else in the race at the moment.

BenjAii

Given the disaster she looked in the Couric interviews, just getting through this without looking a total idiot was a victory for Palin, in which she succeeded.

Though you could tell she had been paying a lot of attention during those three days of coaching.

I was a bit disappointed with Biden. Although he was the one making the better points and in the much stronger position in the debate vis a vis Palins weakness with issues & as a Republican given the catastrophe of their policies, why didn't he shine more ?

At best you can say he came out just ahead. He seemed to waffle too much and didn't do a great job of communicating I thought, just OK - which was disappointing.

I also didn't think he was sincere; there was a moment during his "me as a single parent" bit, where he gulped back a sob & I thought - you phoney !

Crash

To be honest, If i were an american voter, what would have made a difference to me was not so much the content rather the style. For instance, Biden spent most of the time giving answers from his own point of view, and referencing them back then to the obama/biden ticket. Palin however never seemed to refer to herself in an elected position once, simply referring to what John McCain would do. That imo came across as very weak over the course of the debate.

then again that could just be me being overly analytical into it.

Ludo

Hobbes wrote: »

The only thing I can say is why isn't Biden running for president? His part talking about his kids and late wife made him look more human.

He did run this (last) year...withdrew in Jan and endorsed Obama in June.

Kama

The UK should lend America Paxman, that'd do great things for the quality of Presidential debates; that was a pathetically weak moderator.

The point where Palin said 'I'm not going to answer your question, or Bidens, I'm going to soapbox talk to the American people directly' and wasn't called on it...I almost broke a molar grinding in frustration...

Last estimate I saw had that she answered about 20% of the questions she was asked. Sooo much phatic dialogue and push-buttons phrases. Biden improved his position on swing voters though, which is sweet.

Inquitus

Its obvious....Palin and McCain! Great job, Sarah!

Charity, Deerfield, USA

Governor Palin clearnly won the debate, and she did it with "style and class." She has the beauty of a Queen Rania, the poise of Ronald Reagan, and the conviction of Mother Theresa. She will be THE reason McCain-Palin ticket wins. What an answer to prayer!

Jeff Burnsed, Jacksonville, USA

Sarah Palin won...and won big! I've seen anything like this in American politics..since Ronald Reagan..."Palin Fever!"

tony fox, Atlantic beach, USA

Sarah Palin won the debate by holding her own with poise and confidence. The strength and quiet joy she showed tonight are remarkable in light of the attacks she has endured. As governor of Alaska, she has demonstrated her ability to bring about change. Obama and Biden only talk about it.

Judi English, San Clemente, USA

Some quotes of comments off of the UK Times coverage of the debate. This beggars belief, I really cannot understand how people can be so blinkered and stupid.....plus some of the religious overtones are scary.

Macha

Kama wrote: »

The UK should lend America Paxman, that'd do great things for the quality of Presidential debates; that was a pathetically weak moderator.

The point where Palin said 'I'm not going to answer your question, or Bidens, I'm going to soapbox talk to the American people directly' and wasn't called on it...I almost broke a molar grinding in frustration...

Last estimate I saw had that she answered about 20% of the questions she was asked. Sooo much phatic dialogue and push-buttons phrases. Biden improved his position on swing voters though, which is sweet.

Best idea I've heard all day (although it's still early afternoon..). I would pay a lot of money to see Paxman (or Jon Snow) referee a US electoral debate.

Dave!

Anyone know if they talked about religion? That's kind of a hot topic/potato

Kama

Palin's Dominionist links are the bit scares me...

And Rick Davis was on the ball when he sid that the election is not about the issues..."This election is about a composite view of what people take away from these candidates."

Palin's composite view is forming up a lot better. I sneer and get annoyed when they repeat 'maverick...change...government...energy...' linked by questionable sentence structure and inattention to logic; but politically, it works. They've successfully positioned a continuance of Republican policy as an inchoate and undefined program of 'change in Washington'.

Btw did anyone else notice that Palin skimmed quickly over McCains possible death?

Inquitus

Kama wrote: »

"This election is about a composite view of what people take away from these candidates."

Palin's composite view is forming up a lot better. I sneer and get annoyed when they repeat 'maverick...change...government...energy...' linked by questionable sentence structure and inattention to logic; but politically, it works. They've successfully positioned a continuance of Republican policy as an inchoate and undefined program of 'change in Washington'.

The truly scary thing is that McCain and co are able to get away with this, there a hundred, and change, million people in the US who either have their heads up their arses, or are not intelligent enough to see this for what it is.

Intelligent Republicans I know are the first to admit Palin is a joke as a VP candidate, and admit the prospect of her being president is frightening. If they choose to vote for McCain / Palin then thats fine, they understand the risks and have made an informed choice. It's the millions of others who don't see that Palin is out of her depth that really worry me.

Overheal

indeed I think if you're voting McCain you are placing your trust in McCain's health. I mean Ted kennedy is not much older than John and he's been in and out of Hospital so often of late it makes you wonder what complications are going to befall McCain when he is under the stress of the office for 4 years? Just look what it did to George's hair:




Now I mean thats hardly scientific - bush was 53/54 when he took office - but its a startling difference.

Unless he just used Rogaine to win an election :rolleyes:

Overheal

borrowed this from another website:

palin stirs up old emotions in me. emotions from the days of my childhood when i would come home from school and sit down with my oreos, a glass of milk, and a blanket. i would turn the tv on and flip the channels, knowing i was slowly working towards that one channel.....it was almost like foreplay. i would ease my finger across the channel button one more time as i eased my hand down my pants. finally, bobbys world was on. "omigosh bawbee, donaknow nao" would ring out across the room as bobbys moms voice would drive me on towards ecstasy. hmmmmmmm, palin.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby%27s_World

Dave!

I wonder would he seek a second term too :eek:



BTW, Palin's voice reminds me of the film Fargo. Is [wherever that is set] near Alaska? I presume so, because there is snow in both.

Kama

Given that the rhetoric is clearly Maverick-Outsider-Mom Versus Consensus-Mainstream-Insiders:

As an exercise, rather than just listening for facts and clever debating, if you just let the words wash over you and submerge your nasty elitist critical faculties, Palin clearly won.

She had far better eye-contact with the camera (opposite was true in MCCain Obama btw) than Biden, and reached out through the screen into our hearts with her message of authenticity and the warm-hearted goodness that defines the American people; a message of hope, and faith, and hard work, while her opponents cling to a backward-looking blame.

She didn't answer questions. She didn't need to. The real questions are the ones real American families ask each other at the hockey game, not those of the media and moderators.

And so forth...

*Must...stop...reading...Palin...messages...*

Overheal

*slaps Kama*

Snap out of it man!

Inquitus

Kama wrote: »

Given that the rhetoric is clearly Maverick-Outsider-Mom Versus Consensus-Mainstream-Insiders:

As an exercise, rather than just listening for facts and clever debating, if you just let the words wash over you and submerge your nasty elitist critical faculties, Palin clearly won.

She had far better eye-contact with the camera (opposite was true in MCCain Obama btw) than Biden, and reached out through the screen into our hearts with her message of authenticity and the warm-hearted goodness that defines the American people; a message of hope, and faith, and hard work, while her opponents cling to a backward-looking blame.

She didn't answer questions. She didn't need to. The real questions are the ones real American families ask each other at the hockey game, not those of the media and moderators.

And so forth...

*Must...stop...reading...Palin...messages...*

Are you Hockey Mom or Joe Sixpack?

Kama

Are you Hockey Mom or Joe Sixpack?

I DON'T KNOW ANYMORE!!??!! :eek:

Hockey-Joe Mom-pack, maybe?
As such, I'm the Palin-Perfect democratic actor... :rolleyes:

Talking about Palin being a dumb hockey mom, and her voters being idiots plays right into the strat they are moving forward with is basically my point.

Hobbes

Inquitus wrote: »

Are you Hockey Mom or Joe Sixpack?

Joe sixpack comments reminded me of Mr Burns run for the governer.

Inquitus

Kama wrote: »

I DON'T KNOW ANYMORE!!??!! :eek:

Hockey-Joe Mom-pack, maybe?
As such, I'm the Palin-Perfect democratic actor... :rolleyes:

Talking about Palin being a dumb hockey mom, and her voters being idiots plays right into the strat they are moving forward with is basically my point.

Well Modern Democracy relies on people making an informed decision, if people are unwilling / unable to get informed then what can you do?

Drift

Dave! wrote: »

BTW, Palin's voice reminds me of the film Fargo. Is [wherever that is set] near Alaska? I presume so, because there is snow in both.

HAHA, not really. It's about 2300 miles. Roughly the same distance as there is between Ireland the the Pyramids in Giza!!

Her accent does sound similar though, I'll grant you that.

Kama

Well Modern Democracy relies on people making an informed decision

Meh I think that's classical democracy. Modern democracy relies on polling, swing votes, and push-button issues. Also snap judgements on peoples faces. With a little framing thrown in, et voila!

Academic notions are all very well, but I'm a bit dubious that's how elections are fought.

Manic Moran

leninbenjamin wrote: »

sidenote: anyone know what the American General in Afghanistan (can't remember his name) actually said about using the 'surge' there?

McKiernan. It's a sort of 'none-of-the-above.' The line Biden relies on is "The word I don't use for Afghanistan is 'surge.'"
I'm having some difficulty tracking down a full transcript, as it appears to have been a comment taken from an interview with the Washington Post. He did do a full press conference the same day which may give context to his thinking, but the quoted line does not appear in the transcript.

This is the Biden quote from the debate.

The fact is that our commanding general in Afghanistan said today that a surge -- the surge principles used in Iraq will not -- well, let me say this again now -- our commanding general in Afghanistan said the surge principle in Iraq will not work in Afghanistan, not Joe Biden, our commanding general in Afghanistan.

He said we need more troops. We need government-building. We need to spend more money on the infrastructure in Afghanistan.

This is Palin's response.

Well, first, McClellan did not say definitively the surge principles would not work in Afghanistan. Certainly, accounting for different conditions in that different country and conditions are certainly different. We have NATO allies helping us for one and even the geographic differences are huge but the counterinsurgency principles could work in Afghanistan. McClellan didn't say anything opposite of that. The counterinsurgency strategy going into Afghanistan, clearing, holding, rebuilding, the civil society and the infrastructure can work in Afghanistan

Well, firstly, she got the man's name wrong, but we'll gloss over that.

Part of the problem is a definition over just what 'surge' means. To some, it just means 'shoving more troops into an area for a short while.' That's 'surge' with a small 's'. To others, the 'Surge' (big 's') in the Iraq context involved a total strategy shift on how the troops were utilised in addition to simply having more troops around for a while.

If you simply take the former definition, which I believe is the way McKiernan used it in the WaPo interview, then Biden is fairly correct. McKiernan is not of the opinion that simply throwing troops at the problem for a brief period of time will fix it. However, he did not say that the overall Surge principles would not work, and in this Palin is also correct. McKiernan does want more troops, he's looking for at least four more brigades, but cautioned it's not a case of in for a year and then back home. It's a 'sustained commitment' that he thinks is required, involving a wide range of assets and programs.

So it all comes down to how you interpret what McKiernan was saying and what Biden was saying. However, there is one more piece of context to be thrown into the mix. The whole subject was brought up by Palin, with this remark.

The surge principles, not the exact strategy, but the surge principles that have worked in Iraq need to be implemented in Afghanistan, also.

My take on this is that she was referring to 'how the troops are used', not 'how long they will be there.' Biden took this as "how long they will be there" and thus was actually arguing a different issue.

So, within their own frames of reference, both are correct. Within the context in which the Afghanistan Surge was brought into the debate, Biden was wrong.

NTM

metrovelvet

Is that what he porposed to save the BOSNIACS? or did he use the drill he bought at Home Depot for that?

Lirange

Dave! wrote: »

BTW, Palin's voice reminds me of the film Fargo. Is [wherever that is set] near Alaska? I presume so, because there is snow in both.

I think Police Chief Marge would be more reassuring than Sarah. :pac:

She doesn't really have an Alaskan accent apparently. Saw part of a doco that said she grew up in a rural area so took on the accent of her parents/extended family who all have the upper midwest/Northern Rockies accent. Think Principal Victoria from South Park or Charlize Theron as Josey Aimes. Any way she may be a noice looking bird but I can't stand to listen to her. The nasally nunce.

turgon

I thought Palin was very shallow, and just trying to tug at the emotions of ignorant voters who will base their decision more on Palins demeanor than her actual views.

Like at the start, "Can I call you Joe?". Totally trying to pull off the "one of you" thing. For me the $300 glasses override that.

Dave!

A quality video of Bill Maher being interviewed about his new movie 'Religulous', but spends a good bit of time talking about Sarah Palin... hilarity

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UieI2A3DMCM

JK: "Maybe she's being badgered by the team around her, and they're telling her to be so careful, don't say this, don't say that, do say this, do say that... etc"
Bill Maher: "Yeah. And she's also just a moron."

FrankGrimes

turgon wrote: »

I thought Palin was very shallow, and just trying to tug at the emotions of ignorant voters who will base their decision more on Palins demeanor than her actual views.

+1 on that though the sad thing is she did a very effective job at pitching her vague rhetoric to what amounts to a very large segment of American society that will lap that up and go for the whole 'maverick' thing despite the fact that she clearly has very little depth of knowledge. It was a smart ploy though I thought she came across as quite patronising at times with that big smug grin on her face during Biden's answers (would have anticipated this being the other way around).

Have to say she surprised me in how well she managed to learn off her responses (I wouldn't call them answers) and quickly lead into them regardless of what question was asked - it actually reminded me of the Irish orals for the Leaving Cert! The polls I saw on CBS suggested a lot of people have an improved opinion of her afterwards, though it's heartening to see only 46% of those polled thought she would do an effective job as president if needed. So despite the lack of any major blunders, I'm hoping enough people saw through her unwillingness or inability to answer most questions and that will leave people wondering about her ability and how poor judgement McCain has displayed in choosing her.

On the other hand, I personally was highly impressed by Biden - I thought he demonstrated excellent real insight into all areas, particularly foreign policy and he really went after McCain. That was a great tactic as going after Palin directly would have led to allegations that he was bullying her, which is another example of the benefits of sexism she is receiving (e.g. who honestly believes McCain would have picked her if she was a man with the same record, who would have thought those seeking to publicise her gross inadequacies would be accused of doing so based on her sex if she were a man?).

I think if most voters actually took the time to educate themselves on the key topics they would clearly see Obama/Biden have more understanding and real actionable ideas than McCain/Palin and it would be a convincing win for Obama. But I do fear that too many voters in middle America still have the frontier attitude of 'us against the world' and anyone who appeals to that on a very simplistic chest beating way will really appeal to them, so I do fear it is still too close to call. And I do genuinely fear the economic and world stability consequences if they do get elected.

besty

Good post mortem of the debate going on at the moment on Larry King, CNN if anyone has any interest. They just compiled a montage of Palin's winking and "folksy" comments.

is_that_so

73 million watched it. Must make the main protagonists feel inadequate.

Pocono Joe

In my opinion Palin won the debate. Biden's responses were filled with multiple errors - much much more than Palin.

I going to see John and Sarah next week... any questions ya'll want me to ask?

Macha

Pocono Joe wrote: »

In my opinion Palin won the debate. Biden's responses were filled with multiple errors - much much more than Palin.

Joke, right?

BenjAii

Pocono Joe wrote: »

I going to see John and Sarah next week... any questions ya'll want me to ask?

Ask John how many houses he owns, and see if he can remember it's 8 :-)

I was disappointed in Biden; given all his advantages he should have done so much better, but didn't.

I have increasing respect for Sarah Palin's abilities as a natural communicator, she has some of that Ronald Reagan magic about her.

However, I'm convinced her chance to use it will be another day. It's just looking more and more likely it will be President Obama.

Macha

BenjAii wrote: »

I was disappointed in Biden; given all his advantages he should have done so much better, but didn't.

I have increasing respect for Sarah Palin's abilities as a natural communicator, she has some of that Ronald Reagan magic about her.

However, I'm convinced her chance to use it will be another day. It's just looking more and more likely it will be President Obama.

Biden did as much as he could, given the circumstances. If he had come down too hard on her, the Republicans would have been screaming sexism. If you call talking in circles, not answering the question, winking and being folksy a "natural communicator" well..I don't know what to say.

For those interested in the facts, this is a good non-partisan organisation that checks the facts of all the debates, etc. Not surprisingly, Palin did quite a bit of lying & exaggerating. They pointed out a few from Biden, some of which were withdrawn in the corrections at the bottom:

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/factchecking_biden-palin_debate.html

Palin - 9 lies
Biden - 4 lies ...as far as I can make out..

BenjAii

taconnol wrote: »

Biden did as much as he could, given the circumstances. If he had come down too hard on her,

No taconnol, he should have won overwhelmingly.

Given the complete and utter disaster Republican policies have brought America to at this point, he should have been able to communicate that,
and reach out and talk to people at an emotional level given these extraordinary times.

Instead he was competent and just ahead on points.

Technically a victory i'll grant you, but such a poor show considering what was called for.

Macha

BenjAii wrote: »

No taconnol, he should have won overwhelmingly.

Given the complete and utter disaster Republican policies have brought America to at this point, he should have been able to communicate that,
and reach out and talk to people at an emotional level given these extraordinary times.

Instead he was competent and just ahead on points.

Technically a victory i'll grant you, but such a poor show considering what was called for.

Ok he isn't the most moving speaker. But the format really suited Palin & didn't suit him. It also doesn't help when the person you're debating is lying as much as she did - and not answering the question. I think he put that across quite clearly.

BenjAii

taconnol wrote: »

Ok he isn't the most moving speaker. But the format really suited Palin & didn't suit him. It also doesn't help when the person you're debating is lying as much as she did - and not answering the question. I think he put that across quite clearly.

I get your point taconnel, and despite being on the Democrats side, I'm just looking at this objectively.

Biden failed to truly communicate with people over their anger/fear on what seems to be happening in the world at the moment.

And you know what, as true as it is to say Palin lied more, she outfoxed him.

She went into this with people thinking she would be a disaster and triumphed.

He went into this with the potential to be memorable or triumph and was merely competent, a huge missed opportunity.

Just saying ......