Irish boxing pound for pound rankings

sligobhoy67

Guy I havent update the Irish P4P list since the beginning of July. Any suggestions

I was thinking of moving Lindsay, Hyland, Hyland and Rock up. Thoughts, opinions? Suggestions for new entrants into the top 20 - Sullivan? Byrne?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Vintagekits/Irish_boxing_pound_for_pound_rankings

Big Ears

As always I think Neil Sinclair is way too high but there's no point discussing that because we've been through it before.

I think Martin Lindsay should move up to top 7.
Byrne should enter the rankings.
Coyle is too high.
McBride should be out of the rankings.

If you want me to elaborate on any of them I will.

HollowMan

How the hell is Fagan above Murray??

joepenguin

Id say Definitely move Rock, and Lindsay up. Macklin, Dunne, McLoskey in fairness could be fairly interchangeable. I think Sinclair is quite high.If he wins prizefighter then yeah defo top ten material. Lindsay should definitely be ahead of him.

Hollowman: Fagan dropped a very controversial split decision to undefeated lightweight world champ Paul Spadafora (fight took place around 140 and Spadafora was stripped of his WBA and IBF belts a few years back but still undefeated) so id imagine that help justify putting him above Murray. Plus he held an Irish title.

I think you are spot on having Fagan ahead of Murray for the moment at least.
McBride hasnt done anything lately but in fairness said he was... "gonna hit Mike tyson on the chin and he's gonna think...the whole of Ireland...as an island, hit him on the chin...y'know what I mean" (see tyson-McBride presser ) and he did. So id put him at say 20 and as long as he gets a fight in a couple of months, wins and keeps winning let him stay there. Unheralded Irishman beats Mike Tyson... HIGH 5...End of story.:cool:

joepenguin

Bit of a step up here for Perez considering his opposition so far:
According to boxrec he's set to face a 37 year old journeyman called Cliff Crouser (26 wins, 18 losses)
Crouser has been in with James Tillis, Clifford Ettiene, Vladimir Virchis
Michael Moorer, Rob Calloway, Tony Thompsom, Chris Arreola and Monte Barrett. Obviously he lost to all those guys but he does have a 2nd round KO over Barrett only last year

http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=15815&cat=boxer

Big Ears

Couser fight is off, Cliff is going to be doing some unlicensed stuff in England instead. Shame as it was quite a big step up for Perez(which imo he would of easily overcame).

sligobhoy67

Big Ears wrote: »

Couser fight is off, Cliff is going to be doing some unlicensed stuff in England instead. Shame as it was quite a big step up for Perez(which imo he would of easily overcame).

Do you reckon I should add Perez into the list or would that me like adding Duddy to the top ten US middleweights list?

Big Ears

sligobhoy67 wrote: »

Do you reckon I should add Perez into the list or would that me like adding Duddy to the top ten US middleweights list?

I reckon you should keep him off tbh, add him when he's eligible for citizenship.
I don't think we need our p4p list littered with asterisks as the other Cubans would probably be good enough to make it in there in the future aswell.

As of the moment I don't think Perez should be there on merit anyway, he's never beaten anyone of any quality and his last opponent was probably the worst to ever grace Irish shores.

sligobhoy67

Big Ears wrote: »

As always I think Neil Sinclair is way too high but there's no point discussing that because we've been through it before.

I think Martin Lindsay should move up to top 7.
Byrne should enter the rankings.
Coyle is too high.
McBride should be out of the rankings.

If you want me to elaborate on any of them I will.

Actually we discussed why I had Magee so low not Sinclair so high.

I've slotted Byrne in and done an article on him. The rest was pretty easy.

Do you concensus Sinclairs position has plummeted.

McKay and Magee have big fights coming up before Christmas and that could change things

Big Ears

sligobhoy67 wrote: »

Actually we discussed why I had Magee so low not Sinclair so high.

I've slotted Byrne in and done an article on him. The rest was pretty easy.

Do you concensus Sinclairs position has plummeted.

McKay and Magee have big fights coming up before Christmas and that could change things

Ya I think the list is pretty much the way I'd have things now, Sinclair had done nothing of consequence in the last 5 years to have deserved such a high ranking. Andrew Murray is probably better than Fagan but hasn't proven it and as such there is no problem having Fagan above him based on him losing close bouts to Paul Spadafora and Verquan Kimbrough.

McKay will probably lose to Elcock but Magee should beat McGuire and with that go ahead of James Moore, and Macklin if he loses to Ajetovic(which I don't think he will).

joepenguin

Rogan is fighting Audley on December 6th. Hope it goes ahead this time.

adamburke83

id put patrick hyland well over martin lindsay anyday would be a great fight though?????
as well as neil sinclair should be higher too

unknown13

Dunne should be ahead of Mc Closkey and Lee , Lindsey should be ahead of Magee and may be Moore

sligobhoy67

adamburke83 wrote: »

id put patrick hyland well over martin lindsay anyday would be a great fight though?????
as well as neil sinclair should be higher too

why?

Happy to listen to arguments.

unknown13 wrote: »

Dunne should be ahead of Mc Closkey and Lee , Lindsey should be ahead of Magee and may be Moore

again, why?

sligobhoy67

First update done since October - there has been plenty of shuffling about. Main movers being Linsday and Rogan upwards and Moore and Fagan downwards.

Surprising for the first time ever there is no new entrants.

Comments please, also suggestions for new entrants and who they might place - maybe O'Sullivan is knoking on the door - anyone else?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Vintagekits/Irish_boxing_pound_for_pound_rankings

Big Ears

I'd definitely have Paul McCloskey over Andy Lee, Lee hasn't beaten as good opposition as McCloskey and has lost to worse opposition than McCloskey has beat. Infact at the moment I'm not sure Lee deserves to be ahead of Dunne or Macklin either, although he will inevitably improve his place significantly in the near future.

I'd have Rogan's win over Audley Harrison enough to put him over Michael Gomez.

Henry Coyle should be a bit lower, maybe about 19th.

sligobhoy67

Big Ears wrote: »

I'd definitely have Paul McCloskey over Andy Lee, Lee hasn't beaten as good opposition as McCloskey and has lost to worse opposition than McCloskey has beat. Infact at the moment I'm not sure Lee deserves to be ahead of Dunne or Macklin either, although he will inevitably improve his place significantly in the near future.

I'd have Rogan's win over Audley Harrison enough to put him over Michael Gomez.

Henry Coyle should be a bit lower, maybe about 19th.

I hear ya and its noted.

Do you think that Sutherland deserves to go in at #20 even after one meaningless fight?

Hangballlouie

sligobhoy67 wrote: »

I hear ya and its noted.

Do you think that Sutherland deserves to go in at #20 even after one meaningless fight?

He will be top 5 imo this time next year at the very least, but I don't think he should go in at this stage.

joepenguin

Much too early for Sutherland at this stage I think but it shouldnt be long before he's in the top 5 of many lists!

Big Ears

sligobhoy67 wrote: »

I hear ya and its noted.

Do you think that Sutherland deserves to go in at #20 even after one meaningless fight?

No, definitely not enough for me. I agree with what the others say in a way and he will probably be mid table, top half of that p4p list come this time next year but for now he shouldn't even be considered.

Depending on his competition though he could enter pretty soon.

Duddyfan

Anyone who even considers Darren Sutherland has to be on something!
I would agree with your p4p only I would put Bernard Dunne second or at least third.

sligobhoy67

Duddyfan wrote: »

Anyone who even considers Darren Sutherland has to be on something!

bit harsh. He might have just one pro fight under his belt but has shown enough in the ams to show that he has the goods to be in the Irish top ten soon.

Duddyfan

sligobhoy67 wrote: »

bit harsh. He might have just one pro fight under his belt but has shown enough in the ams to show that he has the goods to be in the Irish top ten soon.

Didn't mean to sound harsh but the lad has had 1 pro fight against an average opponent. I'm not saying he won't make it into the p4p list soon but it's this crap about over hyping prospects before they have proved a thing that I don't like about boxing. Even suggesting Sutherland should make this list would be ridiculous. Let the boy prove his worth!

Hangballlouie

Duddyfan wrote: »

Didn't mean to sound harsh but the lad has had 1 pro fight against an average opponent. I'm not saying he won't make it into the p4p list soon but it's this crap about over hyping prospects before they have proved a thing that I don't like about boxing. Even suggesting Sutherland should make this list would be ridiculous. Let the boy prove his worth!

You say you don't mean to be harsh yet you then say suggesting Darren makes the list is ridiculous. Make up your mind. Are you been harsh or not?:D

T-K-O

Ill be harsh - Sutherland on the list is preposterous

Hangballlouie

T-K-O wrote: »

Ill be harsh - Sutherland on the list is preposterous

Of course it is.

You're really special. You can spell big words, look at you!;)

T-K-O

I challenge you to a dual..

joepenguin

No matter who beat Iliev inside a round on their pro debut they dont deserve to go on the list. Sutherland will be one of the best of his generation of irish boxers for sure but give the current top 20 their time on the list as they have earned it. Its pro only and amature achiements shouldnt really come into it.

Hangballlouie

T-K-O wrote: »

I challenge you to a dual..

Spelling test or fisti-cuffs?

I'd prefer the first, your name scares me.;)

Duddyfan

hangballlouie wrote: »

You say you don't mean to be harsh yet you then say suggesting Darren makes the list is ridiculous. Make up your mind. Are you been harsh or not?:D

I'm not being harsh on Darren or his talent, maybe I'm being a little harsh on those who suggest he be in the top 20!
It's kind of insulting to the guys who have been at the pro game for a few years and have already proved themselves, that's all.

T-K-O

hangballlouie wrote: »

Spelling test or fisti-cuffs?

I'd prefer the first, your name scares me.;)

Fisti-cuffs or 11 times tables - I'm a bad ass on both...:D

Hangballlouie

Duddyfan wrote: »

I'm not being harsh on Darren or his talent, maybe I'm being a little harsh on those who suggest he be in the top 20!
It's kind of insulting to the guys who have been at the pro game for a few years and have already proved themselves, that's all.

We agree, Darren shouldn't be allowed in the top 20. I just think you contradicted yourself by your comments.

It was a question by Sligobhoy for us all to answer, not to ridicule him. Anybody without the knowledge of boxing that you have(and there is many of them on here) would argue that he should be in there. I know he shouldn't be there as does the majority on here.

I think you make a lot of valid points and have good knowledge of the game.

You let me down with your comments man, you let me down.:(

Duddyfan

hangballlouie wrote: »

We agree, Darren shouldn't be allowed in the top 20. I just think you contradicted yourself by your comments.

It was a question by Sligobhoy for us all to answer, not to ridicule him. Anybody without the knowledge of boxing that you have(and there is many of them on here) would argue that he should be in there. I know he shouldn't be there as does the majority on here.

I think you make a lot of valid points and have good knowledge of the game.

You let me down with your comments man, you let me down.:(

I'll hang my head in shame man.
Sure pay no attention to me, I'm always contradicting myself!
Seriously though, didn't mean to sound condescending, there are enough people on here with that attitude.

Hangballlouie

Duddyfan wrote: »

Seriously though, didn't mean to sound condescending, there are enough people on here with that attitude.

+1

All is forgiven

come home son!

Hangballlouie

T-K-O wrote: »

Fisti-cuffs or 11 times tables - I'm a bad ass on both...:D

Rock, paper scissors and jenga are more my thing. I'm only a small thing anyway, haven't had gloves on in years.

If we had fisti-cuffs, I am sure that you would win by a T.K.O.

Did you see what I did there?

I am so smart! :cool:

sligobhoy67

hangballlouie wrote: »

We agree, Darren shouldn't be allowed in the top 20. I just think you contradicted yourself by your comments.

It was a question by Sligobhoy for us all to answer, not to ridicule him. Anybody without the knowledge of boxing that you have(and there is many of them on here) would argue that he should be in there. I know he shouldn't be there as does the majority on here.

I think you make a lot of valid points and have good knowledge of the game.

You let me down with your comments man, you let me down.:(

Exaclty, I wasnt saying he should be in - if I thought he should be then he would be!!

What I didnt agree with was saying you would "have to be on something" to argue that he should be. Obviously the argument would be based on his amateur achievements.

For example, Tyson Fury is ranked 18th in the British heavyweight division after one fight against a cruiserweight.

gummy bear

i would put patrick hyland in top 10...................
becouse hes had 7 fights in 08 winning 5 bye ko and taking the irish belt his headin to bigger fights i hear hes fightin in the us for the IBF inter-con title........

sligobhoy67

gummy bear wrote: »

i would put patrick hyland in top 10...................
becouse hes had 7 fights in 08 winning 5 bye ko and taking the irish belt his headin to bigger fights i hear hes fightin in the us for the IBF inter-con title........

Pajo is going great and had a very good year. However, with the exception of Paul Griffin the level of competition that he has beaten has been pretty poor - with most having negative records.

Until he faces someone decent I think he will struggle to get into the top ten.

adamburke83

sligobhoy67 wrote: »

Pajo is going great and had a very good year. However, with the exception of Paul Griffin the level of competition that he has beaten has been pretty poor - with most having negative records.

Until he faces someone decent I think he will struggle to get into the top ten.

after he wins the ibf inter title, where would you place him??

sligobhoy67

adamburke83 wrote: »

after he wins the ibf inter title, where would you place him??

lol!!! as I typed that response I thought to myself, "I bet Adam has a go at me over this!"

I havent got a crystal ball, but I suppose it would depend on who he fought for the title and how he performed.

I assume that he will be fighting for the either the IBF Inter continental title or the IBF International title (to be honest I dont know what the difference is or if one is better than the other!)

The current holder of the International title is Frenchman Cyril Thomas but I think he is vacating that to fight Cristobal Cruz. So maybe he is fighting for that vacant title.

The last holder of the Inter-con title was Belarussian Andrey Isaev who seems to have dropped the title in favour of the WBO Asia Pacific title. So it looks like both titles are vacant - do you know which one he will be fighting for?

If Pajo beats either of those fighters then I would think that he would definately go into the top ten - even if it was against a lower ranked fighter that they brought in to fight for the vacant title then he would still move up the rankings.

I reckon the next revision of the rankings that I will do will be after the usual St. Patricks Day cards that seem to have become popular again.

What you reckon?

adamburke83

sligobhoy67 wrote: »

lol!!! as I typed that response I thought to myself, "I bet Adam has a go at me over this!"

I havent got a crystal ball, but I suppose it would depend on who he fought for the title and how he performed.

I assume that he will be fighting for the either the IBF Inter continental title or the IBF International title (to be honest I dont know what the difference is or if one is better than the other!)

The current holder of the International title is Frenchman Cyril Thomas but I think he is vacating that to fight Cristobal Cruz. So maybe he is fighting for that vacant title.

The last holder of the Inter-con title was Belarussian Andrey Isaev who seems to have dropped the title in favour of the WBO Asia Pacific title. So it looks like both titles are vacant - do you know which one he will be fighting for?

If Pajo beats either of those fighters then I would think that he would definately go into the top ten - even if it was against a lower ranked fighter that they brought in to fight for the vacant title then he would still move up the rankings.

I reckon the next revision of the rankings that I will do will be after the usual St. Patricks Day cards that seem to have become popular again.

What you reckon?

yeah all cool there,
pajo is fighting for the IBF Inter continental on the 16th in M.S.G NYC
and eddie is meant to be fighting for the super-feather ibf international its just waiting to be finalized, he is over there at the minute in training camp.

sligobhoy67

adamburke83 wrote: »

yeah all cool there,
pajo is fighting for the IBF Inter continental on the 16th in M.S.G NYC
and eddie is meant to be fighting for the super-feather ibf international its just waiting to be finalized, he is over there at the minute in training camp.

Kevin Mitchell has the IBF SFW Inter-con belt, he beat Andrey Isaev to win it and then Isaev moved back down to FW to take his belt.

I assume that Mitchell has been stripped of it due to inactivity from his injury.

Any word on potential opponents for the two lads.

gummy bear

sligobhoy67 wrote: »

Pajo is going great and had a very good year. However, with the exception of Paul Griffin the level of competition that he has beaten has been pretty poor - with most having negative records.

Until he faces someone decent I think he will struggle to get into the top ten.

wat about the guy john gicharu who went 8 rds with derry mathews and john simpson, (PAJO) ko'ed him in jst 52,SECONDS:cool: the only 1 to knock the guy out look at hes record i didnt think it was a negative 1 mate sorry.......

sligobhoy67

gummy bear wrote: »

wat about the guy john gicharu who went 8 rds with derry mathews and john simpson, (PAJO) ko'ed him in jst 52,SECONDS:cool: the only 1 to knock the guy out look at hes record i didnt think it was a negative 1 mate sorry.......

I didnt say ALL his opponent had negative records - I said most - infact its the vast majority - only FOUR of Pajos 15 opponents had positive records - that speaks volumes.

Lets see how he gets on with the IBF Inter continental fight shall we

adamburke83

sligobhoy67 wrote: »

Kevin Mitchell has the IBF SFW Inter-con belt, he beat Andrey Isaev to win it and then Isaev moved back down to FW to take his belt.

I assume that Mitchell has been stripped of it due to inactivity from his injury.

Any word on potential opponents for the two lads.

they are still in talks as far as i can gather but as soon as i know, i will let you know

sligobhoy67

adamburke83 wrote: »

they are still in talks as far as i can gather but as soon as i know, i will let you know

cheers Adam

TomRooney

sligobhoy67 wrote: »

Guy I havent update the Irish P4P list since the beginning of July. Any suggestions

I was thinking of moving Lindsay, Hyland, Hyland and Rock up. Thoughts, opinions? Suggestions for new entrants into the top 20 - Sullivan? Byrne?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Vintagekits/Irish_boxing_pound_for_pound_rankings

Jim Rock should at least be in the top ten, around 6th or 7th. look at the mans record. plus he won the irish light heavy wieght title

sligobhoy67

TomRooney wrote: »

Jim Rock should at least be in the top ten, around 6th or 7th. look at the mans record. plus he won the irish light heavy wieght title

who has he beaten of note?

sligobhoy67

As the Erin Go Brawl has been cancelled I am going to do an update this weekend.

Can I have your suggestions, comments, queries!

adamburke83

sligobhoy67 wrote: »

As the Erin Go Brawl has been cancelled I am going to do an update this weekend.

Can I have your suggestions, comments, queries!

leave it til next weekend or the weekend after if you can as Pajo Hyland is fighting for the IBF international title on saturday and too Paul McCloskey is defending his British title next friday against barry morrison,and Matthew Macklin is fighting on the 14th for the British title and then you have the Bernard Dunne card with himself fighting for the WBA title and Andy Murray fighting for the EBU-EU title, them fights may or may not have an impact on the rankings. ONLY A SUGGESTION!!
does Jamie Moore fit the bill as i reckon if he does (as the irish champ) he should be #1,
great display last night. i reckon he could beat all comers???:rolleyes:
then i would really putting Martin Rogan in the top 5 too
Let us know what you think???:D

sligobhoy67

adamburke83 wrote: »

leave it til next weekend or the weekend after if you can as Pajo Hyland is fighting for the IBF international title on saturday and too Paul McCloskey is defending his British title next friday against barry morrison,and Matthew Macklin is fighting on the 14th for the British title and then you have the Bernard Dunne card with himself fighting for the WBA title and Andy Murray fighting for the EBU-EU title, them fights may or may not have an impact on the rankings. ONLY A SUGGESTION!!
does Jamie Moore fit the bill as i reckon if he does (as the irish champ) he should be #1,
great display last night. i reckon he could beat all comers???:rolleyes:
then i would really putting Martin Rogan in the top 5 too
Let us know what you think???:D

I hear ya brother. I will problably do a quick update now and then a revision at the end of the month.

McCloskey is fighting Dean Harrison cos The Bizness is injured