Daughter being bullied - please help

LegacyUser

I'm hoping some of you out here can understand and help me please. My daughter is 11 and is a good child, very polite, quiet, (too quiet i think), and is being bullied at school. she's in 6th class. The bullying is not overt, rather its very much about being ostracized from the group.
Im at a loss of what to do as i was very bullied myself at school so the whole stand up for yourself talk is just that, a talk.I neither believe it or understand it.By the way I've invited so many of the class to parties, sleepovers, playdates etc. over the last8 yrs, I'm worn out. She's never been invited to theirs tho and i'm starting to get a little bit pissed off. My husband, her dad is just like me,a little bit shy.By the way I'd just like to say that our younger daughter is party a minute babe. Have we passed on our bad traits to our older daughter?

John Mason

You might look at the parenting forum, there are actually a few threads about bully over there already. Here's the link
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=251

tbh

hard as it is, she won't be around these kids forever. You have a choice of either trying to teach her to integrate a bit more (change her) or show her how to deal with just being herself (empower her). IMO, anyway.

jim o doom

Only thing I can suggest is find a good martial arts instructor and let her do classes; not to defend herself, but to build up some self confidence - I'm in a class & a girl joined us a while back, amazingly quiet young school age girl, she has gone up a few belts and has started developing self confidence about herself which is great, so when you ask her a question now, your more likely to get an answer and a smile instead of a scared squeak! Possibly not a good suggestion, but it's all I can think of!

Drummerboy2

I think the most important thing to do is build up your duaghter's confidence. Tell her how important she is and explain to her that she will eventually meet really nice people and she will be liked for who she is.

Zillah

If this is what people are calling bullying these days then things have changed in the last decade. People, even children, have a right to choose their friends. Its not fair to call it bullying if they don't want her there. You can't force them to be her friend.

Try find some other avenues, sports/music/clubs whatever, stuff outside of the school where she can meet some other people. This will help her confidence too.

Plus, its not that big a deal. Next year she'll be going to secondary school and meeting a whole load of new people. Help her build up her confidence more and she'll make new friends.

The kids at school who don't play her don't owe you anything, I think its ridiculous to call it bullying.

Nevyn

Ostracization and exclusion is how girls will bully, bulling does not need to be physical.
Repeatedly excluding a child and telling them that they are not wanted and no one wants to be their friend and play with them will destroy the child's self estmee and colour all their social interactions with their peers. Esp when girls are at that pubescent pre-teen stage.

I would say you need to make sure to build up her confidence in other ways and make sure she has a social life outside of school.

Zillah

Thaedydal wrote: »

Ostracization and exclusion is how girls will bully, bulling does not need to be physical.
Repeatedly excluding a child and telling them that they are not wanted and no one wants to be their friend and play with them will destroy the child's self estmee

Well the original post didn't specify really. Is it a case of them not spending time with her, or do they make constant horrible comments to her? The former I think is perfectly ok (if unfortunate for your daughter), the latter would be a form of bullying.

Either way, I think we can all agree that a social life outside school is a good idea, as is trying to build up her confidence.

carlybabe1

I can relate OP and I sympathise, I definately think extra activities will do her confidence wonders. Smaller groups of children dont seem to have cliques, so what about something like gymnastics/acting&singing classes/camogie? I know it can be expensive and though the other kids in these kinds of clubs might not be in her class that can be better, as her confidence will increase. If she is shy and quiet id especially recommend the acting classes as it can encourage kids to really come out of thier shell...
I think that parents out to teach thier kids how to treat others, all kids have the potential to be very unkind, but I reckon they ought they asked how it would make them feel, and they ought to be encouraged to think about that. I think that the whole "thats just how kids are" is a cop out and lazy parenting imo
Hope any of this helps op, let us know how she gets on

LegacyUser

"Well the original post didn't specify really. Is it a case of them not spending time with her, or do they make constant horrible comments to her? "

How can this be ok? A 12 year old girl would not know many (or any) people her own age outside school so to be rejected by those who she actually knows must be very demoralising. I would question how the whole class feel this way, Normally it would be just the leaders who feel this way and others follow them.

I think the martial arts idea is a good one.

aye

jim o doom wrote: »

Only thing I can suggest is find a good martial arts instructor and let her do classes; not to defend herself, but to build up some self confidence - I'm in a class & a girl joined us a while back, amazingly quiet young school age girl, she has gone up a few belts and has started developing self confidence about herself which is great, so when you ask her a question now, your more likely to get an answer and a smile instead of a scared squeak! Possibly not a good suggestion, but it's all I can think of!

+1

it doesnt have to be martial arts, but some type of group activity. hockey, swimming, football.
would she go to scouts? does that still go on?

group activity will help her build her confidence and meet new friends.
she mighnt want to go, but my mum used to force me and my sis to go, and it was worth it.

Macha

aye wrote: »

+1

it doesnt have to be martial arts, but some type of group activity. hockey, swimming, football.
would she go to scouts? does that still go on?

group activity will help her build her confidence and meet new friends.
she mighnt want to go, but my mum used to force me and my sis to go, and it was worth it.

Yeah, plus it will give her a new group of friends to concentrate on.

LegacyUser

Would agree with the other posters who have suggested that she take up some sports and activities outside of school.

Wished I had when I was that age.

I think it's a matter of making her a strong person and not dependent on other people who don't sound worth it. And from what I've heard, martial arts are a great way to instill confidence and discipline.

I would consider myself fairly shy and never came out of my shell til my late 20s - what did that was finding things I loved doing and through which I have met loads of nice people.

It was only when I became my own person that I found I cared less about what others thought about me.

Obviously it's difficult at that age to understand and it's horrible being left out but the more social outlets she has the less she'll care about her class mates. Plus, she'll be going to secondary shcool next year which will open up new opportunities to her.

I wish my parents had given me a bit more of the "be your own person" chats when younger rather than "fit in".

CavanGal

This bullying in its modern devious form! Its so hard to detect and report. I mean a teacher cant force children to play together. I was bullied like this and knowing that no one wants to be your friend can be crippling to a child's confidence. So I agree with the above suggestions to get her involved in after school activities. I did swmming and it really boosted my confidence.

If its any consolation when I went to secondary school and college I had loads of friends and am now well able to stand up for myself. I honestly believe that being bullied makes a person stronger.

Good Luck!

plasmaguy

Sounds like your daughter might be a bit introverted...encourage her to come out of herself a bit more, especially around home...let her break some rules, become more confident, establish her own persona..by the sounds of it she takes things too seriously and may not want to break out of her shell for fear of the consequences...definately encourage her to talk more by asking her questions....

She may also feel the younger daughter gets all the attention, so maybe help the elder one do what she wants to do, if she wants to visit some place, then bring her, rather than ruling it out immediately.

Anyways, it's not the end of the world not to be invited to other people's parties, sometimes it's even a blessing! And there are much more serious forms of bullying such as physical bullying which is probably the worst kind.

elle

I agree you should work on building your daughters confidence but I would strongly advise you to mention it to a teacher. Especially if she is in a situation where it is a local school and she will be going to the local secondary school, as there a strong possibility she will be with this same group for the next 6 yrs. I teach second level but I know that there is a zero tolerance towards any form of bullying, and emotional is taken as seriously if not more so than physical in many cases. You don't have to go in all guns blazing but I would definitely say it to her teacher, even if it's just a phone call, the teacher will appreciate it being brought to her attention. She/He can then at least keep an eye on things and take action to stop it. Joining sports teams or any sort of extra curricular groups will also be a great help to your daughter. As for the party sleepover thing I would just stop inviting them, funk that like it's always the case that one parent does all the work and others don't reciprocate. Save yourself and your daughter the effort and money and bring her out for her birthday instead, these other kids are just out for what they can get. Good luck, hope it gets sorted!

CavanGal

I heard before that mental and emotional bullying has a much harsher long term effact on people than physical. Sure isnt the majority of bullying nowadays psychological?

RentDayBlues

Bullying like this atually has much worse effects than physical bullying. Scars on the inside are harder to heal. You just need to give your daughter the confidence to be her own person - I know at 12 your world revolves around school and friends and it seems like there is nothing else out there, but if you encourage her to take up some extra activities and make new friends this will help her so much.

Girls are the worst for bullying so I sympathise with your daughter, but she has a good chance of coming out of this the better person because she has a mum who recognises what is happening and is prepared to help her. Well done to you

LegacyUser

aye wrote: »

+1

it doesnt have to be martial arts, but some type of group activity. hockey, swimming, football.
would she go to scouts? does that still go on?

group activity will help her build her confidence and meet new friends.
she mighnt want to go, but my mum used to force me and my sis to go, and it was worth it.

+2
As well as speaking to her teacher, I would definitely recommend you get her involved in some kind of sport/club.
I've seen first hand the difference it makes to kids. Their confidence levels soar when they're involved with something outside school. It's also a great opportunity for her to meet other girls from other schools and make new friends.

Zillah

some_advice wrote: »

"Well the original post didn't specify really. Is it a case of them not spending time with her, or do they make constant horrible comments to her? "

How can this be ok? A 12 year old girl would not know many (or any) people her own age outside school so to be rejected by those who she actually knows must be very demoralising. I would question how the whole class feel this way, Normally it would be just the leaders who feel this way and others follow them.

I think the martial arts idea is a good one.

In your original post you asked "Have we passed on our bad traits to our older daughter?"

I'm thinking yes, you're teaching her to think like a victim. If you honestly think there is some sort of conspiracy against her run by a few individuals then talk to her teachers/principal, otherwise stop focusing on these jerks and focus on your daughter. Might it actually just be that she's quiet and unsociable and therefore has no friends? In which case, as has been said, help her. Don't blame the other kids.

dixiefly

Zillah wrote: »

If this is what people are calling bullying these days then things have changed in the last decade. People, even children, have a right to choose their friends. Its not fair to call it bullying if they don't want her there. You can't force them to be her friend.

Try find some other avenues, sports/music/clubs whatever, stuff outside of the school where she can meet some other people. This will help her confidence too.

Plus, its not that big a deal. Next year she'll be going to secondary school and meeting a whole load of new people. Help her build up her confidence more and she'll make new friends.

The kids at school who don't play her don't owe you anything, I think its ridiculous to call it bullying.

I'd like to say first of all that this is an unhelpful and inaccurate post. The OP was not saying that the lack of invitations were what was constituting the bullying.

We had a similar situation with our eldest daughter. At one stage we reckoned it was bullying as there was one girl in particular targeting her in small ways. Unfortunately she was also very quiet and did not mix easily. She was shy and self conscious when other girls wouldsay hello when we would meet on the stree etc. When I would drop her to school I would notice that she did not go to any group but generally walked around the playground on her own. The problem stemmed from when she was split from her friends at the time around 2nd or 3rd class and the others were in school buildings / playground across the road.
Our next girl is more outgoing, has more friends and when a split took place that excluded her from her friends we were much quicker to react.

We had the situation where we invited a lot to the parties and no invitations in return. I can feel your pain.

Overall, you have got good advice here and I dont have much to add except to say that her friends dont necessarily have to be school ones now or in the coming years. My daughter in question is now very good friends with the daughter of friends of ours who is in a class a couple of years below and is also close to her first cousin who lives locally. Building up relationships with them has helped her in building up "relationship" confidence. She is now friendly with more girls in her class including the girl that had been on to her a bit. I am reluctant to go into more detail here but may PM you later as the situations seem similar.
I often said to my daughter that she will meet different people over the years and in a few years time these girls wont matter to her but it is hard to get away from the here and now.

Zillah

dixiefly wrote: »

I'd like to say first of all that this is an unhelpful and inaccurate post. The OP was not saying that the lack of invitations were what was constituting the bullying.

In fairness, all we've been told is that other children don't want to spend time with her. She said nothing about name calling, demeaning comments or anything like that.

Like I said, if it is a case where they're telling her no one likes her and no one wants to be her friend then yes, its bullying and its horrible. In which case there is NO REASON at all to be trying to convince these people to spend time with her because they're clearly being dicks.

But if its simply a case of her not having any friends because she's quiet and shy then convincing her that its everyone else's fault and that she's a victim is an awful thing to do and it will only make her social life worse.

We want to give her confidence to break out of this pattern, not excuses to stay in it, right?

MagicMarker

Err... i think i went to 2 birthday parties as a child and i never had one myself.. I was never bulled.

I think you're over reacting tbh.

Karen_*

Zillah wrote: »

In your original post you asked "Have we passed on our bad traits to our older daughter?"

I'm thinking yes, you're teaching her to think like a victim. If you honestly think there is some sort of conspiracy against her run by a few individuals then talk to her teachers/principal, otherwise stop focusing on these jerks and focus on your daughter. Might it actually just be that she's quiet and unsociable and therefore has no friends? In which case, as has been said, help her. Don't blame the other kids.

Bullying can come in many forms. One of them being exclusion. Now I'm sure the OP's daughter notices that everyone else is being invited to parties but she isn't. Is that supposed to roll off the child like water off a ducks back?

Plenty of negative vibes can be omitted without a word being said. If it was your child would you not be bothered about it?

Zillah

I never said it was nice, but if its purely a matter of other children not wanting to play with her, or even just not noticing her, then no, its not bullying. I refuse to accept that we should call a person a bully if they choose to not socialise with someone.

Karen_* wrote:

If it was your child would you not be bothered about it?

Yes, of course. I'd focus on helping her find friends who like her and help build up her confidence rather than demonising the kids who didn't invite her to their parties.

I certainly wouldn't try to convince her that she's a victim.

Lillyella

MagicMarker wrote: »

Err... i think i went to 2 birthday parties as a child and i never had one myself.. I was never bulled.

I think you're over reacting tbh.

I'm pretty sure that the issue is more deep rooted than not being invited to a couple of birthdays and posts like this, serve no purpose.

My 11 year old went through something similar.

We moved back home from the country and she joined the school in 1st Class. Friendships had already been formed in Junior & Senior Infants and so she found it very hard to break into the little gangs.

She spent 2 and half years with no friends and no birthday party invites, despite us always inviting the girls and boys from her class.

What made a huge difference was when she joined the girls GAA football team. There were already girls in the class in it, and the team atmosphere spilled over to school time. She has a closer bond with the girls now and has integrated much better into the class.

I'm not sure if this is an option for you, but bear in mind, she is starting secondary next September. She'll be starting afresh, and making friends who will be friends in her adult life too. What goes down in Junior school shouldn't effect her in Secondary.

Best of luck with it all.

Karen_*

The OP said the child is being ostracized. I sure wouldn't come and post that that was happening to my child if it was simply a matter of him finding it hard to make friends!

There's more to it than a lack of party invitations. Usually ostracizing means exclusion by everyone and its probably socially impossible for anyone to be friends with the child for fear of it happening to them too.

If you had to spend several hours a day with a group of people who did not want to speak to you and who shunned you it wouldn't be very nice would it? Incredibly hurtful even for an adult? And since they would obviously know how their shunning was making you feel then would it be fair to say that to carry on doing it was unkind or cruel even? Sure it would be their perogative but rotten all the same.

LegacyUser

i think you should try invole her more in outside activites like drama were she has a chance to make friends out side of school, or mabey try to get her involved in her local youth club and she how she gets on.. hopefully she will gain some more confidence and bring that with her to secondary school..

plasmaguy

To aid this discussion, it's probably wise to find agreement on what and what doesn't constitute bullying.

Imo bullying occurs when:

1) there is unprovoked force used on someone on one or more occassions

2) when someone is telling lies, making up stories, gossiping, etc about a victim behind their backs...this can have the effect of isolating and turning potential friends against the victim

3) when a person is jealous of the victim and sets out in a single minded manner to make the victims life impossible

4) trying to gain popularity by picking on another person, trying to show you are one of the gang

5) making threats to someone

6) more generally deliberate behaviour, designed to upset, unsettle and/or ostracise someone by any of the behaviours mentioned above.

In the context of the OP, I would say her daughter is being bullied if there is deliberate intent by one or more other children to make her school life difficult and to make her efforts to make friends difficult by telling stories/lies about her. This would definately be bullying.

The OP should try to find out whether other children are deliberately upsetting her child, or if it just happens to be the case that the child isn't invited because of her perceived quietness and lack of social skills. If it's the latter, it's probably not bullying.

LegacyUser

Sadmum wrote: »

I'm hoping some of you out here can understand and help me please. My daughter is 11 and is a good child, very polite, quiet, (too quiet i think), and is being bullied at school. she's in 6th class. The bullying is not overt, rather its very much about being ostracized from the group.

I definately can relate to your problem, I myself was bullied from 3rd Class to 6th Class by quite a few of my classmates. I cannot emphasise enought the benefits of an extra curricular activity outside the "school" status. Ok your daughter may put up a little defence about doing it but encourage her to do it. When she goes into Secondary School, she will have better friends than she already has.

Sadmum wrote: »

By the way I'd just like to say that our younger daughter is party a minute babe.

My sister is a few years younger to me and have to say she is the total opposite of me. I was shy quiet, she was bubbly, loud, looking for the next party. In a way I was somewhat jealous that she "controlled" the crowd, was very outgoing and i couldnt manage a single sentence without being squeeky-voiced. But it passed rather quickly once i went into Secondary School

Talk to her teacher and voice your concerns, perhaps her teacher doesn't realise the full extent of her shyness and perhaps could get her more involved with the class by the means of class/team building techniques.

bnagrrl

Hi there,
Your daughter sounds like me when I was in school; I was very quiet, probably a bit introverted. I did however do sports after school, namely horse riding and swimming. I think this could be a good idea for your daughter as she's bound to meet loads of other children that she can become good friends with. Meeting new kids away from the school environment may help her come out of her shell a bit more. Find out what your daughter is interested in and join a club/group in the area.

I'm 24, haven't kept in touch with anyone from primary or secondary school but I have friends from horse riding and swimming that I've known since I was 4 years old!