Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest
Old friend turns born again
-
01-10-2008 3:58pm#1
Comments
-
-
-
-
-
-
Advertisement
-
-
-
-
-
-
Advertisement
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Advertisement
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Advertisement
-
-
-
-
-
-
I'm sorry guys I just have to interject again. What is SO BLOODY WRONG with what that guy says in His email???? It might come across as weird to someone who knew the person previously when they didn't talk like this, but to me it just sound like someone who has had a genuine change take place in their life and they are just overawed by it and possibly a little naïve as to how it relates to others but I don’t see any malice or even conceit in his words.
Let's analyze what he says bit by bit and see what evil lurks shall we?New Babe in Christ wrote:"Keep going forward.. God is good man"
What's wrong with that?New Babe in Christ wrote:He has good plans, you can trust Him...
He obviously believes this so why not tell people? Do you light a candle only to put it under a bed? Just because you can’t accept it that should not be a reason to think he is delusional. It’s real to him at least.New Babe in Christ wrote:Man when I was talking to you, that night I felt it, sometimes I'm just given boldness and those words I spoke to you, that boldness came from the Holy SPirit..
Again I fail to see what is wrong with this? Is this man's experience with what he believes is the Holy Spirit invalid just because the listener does not accept it? I fail to see how one can deduce delusion on the man’s part based on that.New Babe in Christ wrote:That's how it all works..
He's right, that is how it all works. If it’s not then Christianity is really a load of BS. We are told that it is God's spirit in us that changes us, it is not a change made by the person by and of themselves, if Christianity is true then it IS a work of the Holy Spirit.New Babe in Christ wrote:That is the situation and God wants you bad man...
I disagree with him on this point. It is pretty obvious that God doesn't want his friend (well yet anyway), if God wanted him he would know about it believe me. No man comes to the Father save the spirit draw him. I don’t believe the spirit is doing this so he’s wrong there but still and all it’s not like he’s saying anything bad is it? He’s just mistaken and needs to be corrected on it.New Babe in Christ wrote:I know you know the story and are along the path.
This to me is probably what he is actually most delusional about. The person he is talking to is obviously not on the same path as him, but it is not being communicated to him adequately that he has no desire to be on that path. This is due to lack of strong communication on the part of the friend. You need to break eggs if you want to make an omelet so I suggest offering the guy an ultimatum in stern and clear terms that if he continues his wooing then the friendship must come to an end. I will side with anyone on this one even though I might share the other guy’s beliefs. When some tells you they don't want to know then stop talking about it to them. Just answer as best you can whatever questions they might have concerning your faith with honesty and clarity and live your own convictions. Stop trying to drag people whose time has not arrived yet into the Kingdom because God has called you in your time. Just grow and flower and be ready to give a defense of your faith but for God’s sake stop whipping people with it.New Babe in Christ wrote:It's been insane man, God is using me, 'He uses the foolish things to confound the wise'
He's right about that too. “The preaching of the Gospel is foolishness to those who are perishing (perishing in a spiritual sense) but to the ones being saved it is the power of God.” 1 Corinthians 1:18New Babe in Christ wrote:There is no better way to live, being used by Him to change peoples lives for an eternity.. It's pretty crazy...
I agree but he must see that not everyone wants to be changed and he should filter his words and use a bit of wisdom and discernment when preaching. He should also remember that the spirit is subject to the prophet and not to allow the spirit to let fly with emotion too much when trying to make clear his new found faith. As Paul said to the Corinthians, I rather speak one word understood than a thousand in an unknown tongue. He was talking to people who constantly showed off the gifts of the spirit in them by talking in tongues and so forth, but who forgot that these gifts are for the edification and building up of the body of believers not for spiritual one-up-man-ship of for showing off. I’m not suggesting that this guy is doing this but it’s a point worth making anyway.New Babe in Christ wrote:Philippians1:6
being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;
Well like I said if there is no God then Christianity is all bunkum anyway so the best advice I can give is stay friends with this guy and give things a while to settle. Listen to what he is actually saying and ask the probing questions that need to be asked instead of clenching up like a clam. Give him food for thought on how he might be mistaken and he will pursue it further I’m sure and leave you alone until he settles it and you never know he might end up coming back teaching you a thing or two about your own unwavering faith in yourself.
0 -
Advertisement
-
-
-
-
-
-
Advertisement
-
-
-
Tim Robbins wrote: »This is actually a very very very good question. Why does this sort of stuff freak non - believers out?
If I was a non believer then stuff like this would be nonsense to me and therefore it would not be taken seriously enough to warrant being freaked out about it. It always amuses me the lengths some atheists will go in order to convince someone they perceive to be delusional that they are delusional. If they are truly delusional then they need to avoided.Tim Robbins wrote: »I think the answers lies in the human condition. All of us are insecure and troubled by the fact that we cannot know everything,
Does this included not knowing what lies outside nature?Tim Robbins wrote: »The Christian thinks they have solved these problems and when they project their dogma to the atheist, they only remind the atheist of these problems because their answers are so obviously flawed.
No, the Christian does not think that THEY have solved these problems. They believe that God has.Tim Robbins wrote: »To the atheist, they haven't solved these problems, they only escaped from them by accepting a delusion and fantasy, which in terms of objective evidence is absolutly baseless.
The conclusion that this is a delusion and a fantasy are predicated on the presupposition that nothing outside of nature exists. Do you know of any naturalists that will tell you that nature is all that there is? How do they know? If our sensory apparatus only extends to the confines of nature then how can we ever know that there is nothing beyond it? One of the most basic claims of Christianity is that God intruded into nature and struck a tent in human flesh called Jesus.Tim Robbins wrote: »So, if you excuse the analogy, this is what it is like.
Suppose you have a real problem, you have lost your job or your girlfriend has gone off with your mate. Your other wacko friend tries to convince you and console you by subverting reality - he says these things didn't actually happen and it was only a dream. But you know they did happen. You show your friend your P45 and photos you have from your girlfriend having an affair.
He then tries to tell you the P45 is a fake as is the photo "is only a theory" and that you need more faith. He smiles and tries to act all happy, trying to make you feel the same way by subverting reality. But this only makes your unhappiness worse. Because it's even more obvious that you have no solution to your problems accept to engage in fantasy.
Analogy excused but not accepted as adequate IMO. Nothing has happened to the friend. The friend is only hearing what happened to the new convert. The new convert has something now that both of them previously did not have. What they both had got in common prior to the new convert’s conversion was that they both had unanswered questions. The new convert believes that some of his questions at least have been answered to a degree that warrants exultation.
I could use your analogy from the converts side of things as well.
Suppose you have a real problem, you don’t believe Christ rose from the dead. But you study the issue intensely and come away convinced that it is true . Your other wacko friend tries to convince you and console you by appealing to nature - he says these things didn't actually happen and it was only a dream. But you know they did happen. You show your friend the evidence that has convinced you but he won’t accept it based on the presupposition that these things can’t happen and therefore didn’t happened and as such they are not even worth the time it would take to study.
He then tries to tell you that the evidence is fake "is only a fable" and that you need more evidence. He smiles and tries to act all happy, trying to make you feel the same way by using a poor academic approach to the issue. But this only makes your unhappiness worse. Because it's obvious to you that you have the solution to your problems without needing to engage in fantasy.
What might be a P45 to one person is the opportunity to start a new job to another
0 -
-
-
"Keep going forward.. God is good man, He has good plans, you can trust Him... Man when I was talking to you, that night I felt it, sometimes I'm just given boldness and those words I spoke to you, that boldness came from the Holy SPirit.. That's how it all works.. That is the situation and God wants you bad man... I know you know the story and are along the path. It's been insane man, God is using me, 'He uses the foolish things to confound the wise'.. There is no better way to live, being used by Him to change peoples lives for an eternity.. It's pretty crazy...
Philippians1:6
being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;
Did the Bill and Ted-esque surver lingo come with the born-again experience or was that extra? 0 -
-
Outside space time - yes.Soul Winner wrote: »Does this included not knowing what lies outside nature?
You misunderstand what the problem is. The atheist has a problem by getting a pain in their head wondering about things, they are stuck with the burden uncertainty. The Christian doesn't have this problem because they invoke "I don't know, but God does". So they shift the problem away from their head onto God. To the atheist, God doesn't solve anything but is a representation and reminder of the problem.No, the Christian does not think that THEY have solved these problems. They believe that God has.
I am not arguing whose right w.r.t. atheist V christianity, I am trying to describe how the atheist feels. What you are doing is an annoying characteristic of most Christian, you are ignoring how the atheist feels. You wonder why the atheist feels such and such and I am trying to tell you why, but instead of trying to understand that you are reverting to trying to question the validity of the position.The conclusion that this is a delusion and a fantasy are predicated on the presupposition that nothing outside of nature exists. Do you know of any naturalists that will tell you that nature is all that there is? How do they know? If our sensory apparatus only extends to the confines of nature then how can we ever know that there is nothing beyond it? One of the most basic claims of Christianity is that God intruded into nature and struck a tent in human flesh called Jesus.
That is only possible if you use a non - rational approach to establish truth. In fact, it's an act of sophistry and rhetoric in Christianity to claim "the truth" because there is no differentiation between belief and knowledge.Suppose you have a real problem, you don’t believe Christ rose from the dead. But you study the issue intensely and come away convinced that it is true .
I don't believe in God, but I accept my knowledge is limited to what I can experience by conciousness and hence I may be simply wrong. The certitude of the extreme Christian, transcends all this and they simply ignore very simple facts which point to the limits of knowledge for any human being.
I apologise for the analogy.Your other wacko friend tries to convince you and console you by appealing to nature - he says these things didn't actually happen and it was only a dream. But you know they did happen. You show your friend the evidence that has convinced you but he won’t accept it based on the presupposition that these things can’t happen and therefore didn’t happened and as such they are not even worth the time it would take to study.
He then tries to tell you that the evidence is fake "is only a fable" and that you need more evidence. He smiles and tries to act all happy, trying to make you feel the same way by using a poor academic approach to the issue. But this only makes your unhappiness worse. Because it's obvious to you that you have the solution to your problems without needing to engage in fantasy.[/I]
What might be a P45 to one person is the opportunity to start a new job to another
Ok, the problem is Christians use a non - rational approach to establish truth. I agree it may help some people. But so does Angel card reading and Tarot Cards.
So you:
1. Either accept it's non - rational.
2. Or you think it's rational.
If you are number 2, you have no right to irritate a non believer as you just haven't considered your own position critically and objectively.
I think this is the problem with the Bible Bashers. They ignore the counter arguments to their own position while they spout off their views. It's irritating listening to someone who tries to force you to have a certain opinion when they refuse to consider that opinion objectively, critically.0 -
-
-
Advertisement
Advertisement