Irish Army missing Styers??

iceage

Has anyone read this mornings irish news of the world? and if so, is it true cos I just can't beleive that it could be. Just seems a bit far fetched to me.

And before you start taking the mickey, I don't read the rag, it was just mentioned to me this morning. I'm sure its sh*te anyway.

Poccington

Military orders check on gun supplies for replicas
Irish Independent
27/09/2008
By: Tom Brady and Barry Duggan

The military authorities have ordered stringent checks of all supplies of Steyr rifles to prevent their weapons being replaced by replicas.

Senior officers are concerned that the replicas, which are described as remarkably similar, could be substituted in stocks to cover up the theft of the army’s standard rifle.

However, initial checks at military barracks around the country have confirmed that no weapons are missing.

A Defence Forces spokesman said that the instruction had been issued as a precaution and stressed the importance of being vigilant because of the number of replicas in circulation.

A weekly check on all military weapons is carried out nationwide and additional audits under the eye of a commanding officer are completed on a monthly basis.

“We know there are imitation guns out there and they are very similar to our weapons. We have no evidence or intelligence suggesting that any attempt would be made to replace some of our stocks with replicas and merely took precautionary steps”, the spokesman added.

It is understood that the Chief of Staff of the Defence Forces, Lieutenant General Dermot Early has discussed the amount of replica rifles in circulation with Garda Commissioner Fachtna Murphy.

What's above is what is actually happening.

Not the ****e that the NOTW put in the paper.

bennyblanco

There should be a law against sensationalist scaremongering

iceage

thanks guys, I knew it had to be ****e, bloody NOTW obviously got nothing else to write about.:)

eroo

Still, the question has to be put out there.. What sorts of DF personnel would contemplate doing such a thing? The risk is there, or otherwise they wouldn't be taking ''precautions''. Who are DF afraid will get their hands on real Steyr AUG's? Criminal gangs? Subversives?

Poccington

Santa Claus

iceage

eroo wrote: »

Still, the question has to be put out there.. What sorts of DF personnel would contemplate doing such a thing? The risk is there, or otherwise they wouldn't be taking ''precautions''. Who are DF afraid will get their hands on real Steyr AUG's? Criminal gangs? Subversives?

Don't worry yourself mate, storm in a teacup, its just more proof of poor Journalistic practise by the notw.

minidazzler

eroo wrote: »

Still, the question has to be put out there.. What sorts of DF personnel would contemplate doing such a thing? The risk is there, or otherwise they wouldn't be taking ''precautions''. Who are DF afraid will get their hands on real Steyr AUG's? Criminal gangs? Subversives?

The above article says they have recieved no credible threats but are simply doing it as a precaution!

Have you seen the Airsoft AUG's? They are remarkably similar and it is very possible to miss the differences by a quick look.

The "enterprising" type might try it.

But In reality noone will ever really try it. Too much risk, too little reward.

Hagar

The NOTW is a Sunday titty magazine. Their stock in trade is bawdy sensationalist tripe. I'm sure like many of the English papers their Premiership soccer coverage is good but I wouldn't put any creedance in any of the "news" that they print.

concussion

I'm still having a chuckle over the fact they had a photo of a Steyr with the caption 'actual Army AUG' (paraphrasing) which was actually an airsoft weapon - priceless!

Pyridine

Surely this wouldn't make sense anyway as I assume you still have to sign every weapon out of the stores so whichever rifle number comes up missing is just traced back to the last soldier who had it and he/she gets into a **** storm!

The Golly Wog

eroo wrote: »

Still, the question has to be put out there.. What sorts of DF personnel would contemplate doing such a thing?

The same type of wanker who sold the .50 Cal from the position at Ayta az Zutt in Lebanon a few years ago.

Fratton Fred

This is typical gutter press creating a story over a few pints.

"Hey, these replica steyrs are very realistic, i wonder if one could be swapped for a real one without anyone noticing"

"yeah, quick, phone the DF and see what steps they have put in place to stop this happening"

"yep, they are aware of it and in THEORY it COULD happen but it hasn't done because they have checked"

"OK, they have had to check, quick, write a story, don;t quote any names, just say a DF spokesperson, that way people think it is real, but the DF can't deny it because we haven't given a name".

"Ok, same again or join me in a port and lemon".

I hate these sort of journalists.

Well, it's better to be wary for no good reason than to be ignorant when there's good reason not to be.

Tenger

Pyridine wrote: »

Surely this wouldn't make sense anyway as I assume you still have to sign every weapon out of the stores so whichever rifle number comes up missing is just traced back to the last soldier who had it and he/she gets into a **** storm!

Thought that would be the process. Or even each soldier has a serial number assigned to him as in some militaries.

concussion wrote: »

I'm still having a chuckle over the fact they had a photo of a Steyr with the caption 'actual Army AUG' (paraphrasing) which was actually an airsoft weapon - priceless!

Class

arybvtcw0eolkf

Bramble wrote: »

Thought that would be the process. Or even each soldier has a serial number assigned to him as in some militaries.




Class

The Styer is a personal issue.

Morpheus

Thought that would be the process. Or even each soldier has a serial number assigned to him as in some militaries.

If you are a serving member of the PDF/RDF please be careful not to release information that may be deemed OpSec info as you may be held responsible for breaking the OSA.

Tackleberry.

i was down in gorey to a local gun dealer and he was telling lads that " there is a load of sh*t in the army ranks as someone replaced a issued styer with a Airsoft " he sells airsoft and some carry the same weight and are full metal copies i can see that he is getting a laugh out off this story and is using it to sell to the young lads so..... i'm sure his sales pitch may get better

Grizzly 45

Dunno why anyone would be worried about anyone nicking the AUG in the 1st place.POS is how most Irish Army blokes describe it .True or no?
Not much good to me as I'm a leftie,and I hear the Irish issue are all right hookers?

concussion

I'm left-handed and I've never had any problems with it. I'll leave the POS comment to others as I have no other rifle to compare it too, save saying its light, compact and, in my experience, reliable.

Boston

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Dunno why anyone would be worried about anyone nicking the AUG in the 1st place.POS is how most Irish Army blokes describe it .True or no?
Not much good to me as I'm a leftie,and I hear the Irish issue are all right hookers?

I don't understand why anyone would be concerned by the thought of a fully automatic assault rifle in the hands of criminals, I mean don't they know it doesn't compare to the German made G36? No self respecting drug dealer would be seen dead with a styer.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Poccington

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Dunno why anyone would be worried about anyone nicking the AUG in the 1st place.POS is how most Irish Army blokes describe it .True or no?
Not much good to me as I'm a leftie,and I hear the Irish issue are all right hookers?

Who's most Irish Army blokes?

The only thing I have even the slightest problem with is the optical sights. Overall though, it's a quality weapon.

concussion

Boston wrote: »

I don't understand why anyone would be concerned by the thought of a fully automatic assault rifle in the hands of criminals, I mean don't they know it doesn't compare to the German made G36? No self respecting drug dealer would be seen dead with a styer.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Ha ha, quality

Grizzly 45

Maybe it's because the criminals already have or can custom order what they fancy in assault rifles.I mean to have street cred you GOT TO have a blinged up chrome AK!!!Who would want to knock off tatty,used Irish army issue AUGs???????:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::eek:

most Irish Army blokes...Well,mostly those that I have talked to down in the Southern Command,who have been there since the FAL days.All rate the FAL as the better rifle.
Concussion
How do you fire that if the ejection port is on the right side???Dont you get a cheek full of spent shell with every shot???

Tribunius

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Dunno why anyone would be worried about anyone nicking the AUG in the 1st place.POS is how most Irish Army blokes describe it .True or no?
Not much good to me as I'm a leftie,and I hear the Irish issue are all right hookers?

Not true at all. It is a very good weapon. I have had a chance to use quite a few different rifles since then (on a range mind you not in the field). M4, Tavor, SL8(civi version of G36), vz58, Sig SG551. It compares well to all of them my only gripe is the sights. But that is only because I have used all the fancy sights. ACOG, Aimpoint, Eotech.

I am right handed but I have seen many lefties trained to use the steyr so in my opinion the fact that its right handed only in the DF is no problem.

Boston

Yes, its a well known fact that the streets of limerick and Dublin resemble bagdad. I mean just the other day I was walking down O'Connell street and tripped over a discarded AK, burger King must have been doing their "buy a euro saver meal, get a free AK" deal again.

Poccington

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Maybe it's because the criminals already have or can custom order what they fancy in assault rifles.I mean to have street cred you GOT TO have a blinged up chrome AK!!!Who would want to knock off tatty,used Irish army issue AUGs???????:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::eek:

most Irish Army blokes...Well,mostly those that I have talked to down in the Southern Command,who have been there since the FAL days.All rate the FAL as the better rifle.
Concussion
How do you fire that if the ejection port is on the right side???Dont you get a cheek full of spent shell with every shot???

And there's a few from the days of the .303 that would rate it as a better rifle. In the world of todays modern Assault Rifles, the Steyr stands up with the rest quite well.

Anyway, all those boys down the South are backwards... Especially since there's no such thing as the Southern Command :P

Shinealight

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Dunno why anyone would be worried about anyone nicking the AUG in the 1st place.POS is how most Irish Army blokes describe it .True or no?
Not much good to me as I'm a leftie,and I hear the Irish issue are all right hookers?

It mite be a piece of ****, fortunately criminals probably wont be to fussy seen as it can still put a considerable hole in ya the same way as any other .223 would.

concussion

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Concussion
How do you fire that if the ejection port is on the right side???Dont you get a cheek full of spent shell with every shot???

No, I just fire it from the right shoulder like I've been trained. It's not a problem whatsoever, though I suspect I'm slightly better off the left, which is why I sometimes fire the mag on that side, just to shake things up a bit :pac::pac:

iceage

Ahem..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7oLjVfshNI

The boys look well don't they? 1 min 56 secs in on the vid. a leftie I believe.

Tenger

Tribunius wrote: »

I have had a chance to use quite a few different rifles .................M4, Tavor, SL8(civi version of G36), vz58, Sig SG551. ..............................I am right handed but I have seen many lefties trained to use the steyr so in my opinion the fact that its right handed only in the DF is no problem.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Not much good to me as I'm a leftie,and I hear the Irish issue are all right hookers?

To Tribunius: What is the Tavor like? I am not a serving military person but as an amateur militarian I think the Tavor looks great. And reading about it online gives it good marks.

To Both: Can the Steyr AUg be changed to left handed use? Does the Irish DF insist on righthanded use?

Poccington

The Steyr on issue to troops in both the PDF and RDF are all right handed. Although Steyr's can be adapted for left handed use, it's not something the DF does.

All the left handed people I trained with and serve with can use the Steyr quite efficiently.

Tribunius

The tavor is alright.

Pros:
Its well balanced and well made.

Its just as accurate as any other service rifle bar the sig products.

Its strips down easily and is easy to clean.

There is a short piece of rail on the right hand side of the hand guard that you can put a torch or laser on.
.
You can easily attach a harris bipod to the handguard

The standard issue sling is good. It spreads the weight nicely.

The mags that come with it are well built steel ones too not those crappy aluminium ones that come with one of the m16/M4 family.

Cons:
The trigger is very heavy even for a bullpup. Though that could have been down to the fact that the one I got my hands on was brand spanking new.

If you are used to the steyr the mag release on it is a pain. Its a catch in front of the mag that you squeeze instead of one behind it that you press. In fact the bolt release is in that spot. It just takes some getting used to but still annoying at first.

The standard mepro sight is pretty crappy. Its a light gathering red dot sight but the dot is too big so after about 100m its useless. Also it washes out if your firing from a shaded area to a bright sun lit area. Thats down to the whole light gathering aspect of it. Also paralax is an issue. The Mars sight that the IDF use with it is supposed to be far better but I haven't seen one yet so I can't comment. However the weapon was designed with it in mind.

A rail (picatinny or other wise) for sight attachment is not standard.

If I had a choice I would go with a steyr though it just fits me better. The standard sight is better too though the front sling mount is worse.

Yes both the tavor and steyr can be changed to left hand ejecting. You have to change the bolt and the ejection opening. However on the DF issue steyrs the opening is not there on the left. You can make out the outline but you would have to cut it open on the tavor you just take a cover off. Oh and I should mention converting either of these is considered an armourer level task.

But as has been mentioned already you can train a left handed shooter to fire with their right easily enough.

RFHazard

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Who would want to knock off tatty,used Irish army issue AUGs???????:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::eek:

most Irish Army blokes...Well,mostly those that I have talked to down in the Southern Command,who have been there since the FAL days.All rate the FAL as the better rifle.

I presume you haven't used the Steyr yourself? Your sources in the Southern Brigade have been in at least twenty years (if they are PDF). Some old sweats will always prefer what they were trained on initially and never move on from the "good old days".

Walts ****eing on about which is "like the best rifle in the world ever like" is adolescent, and has nothing to do with a thread about a red top rag pissing on the DFs reputation for the sake of making hungover illiterates on a Sunday morning feel that there actual are dumber assholes than them out there.:mad:

arybvtcw0eolkf

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Dunno why anyone would be worried about anyone nicking the AUG in the 1st place.POS is how most Irish Army blokes describe it .True or no?
Not much good to me as I'm a leftie,and I hear the Irish issue are all right hookers?

I'm in long enough to have initially trained with the FN, I served with it oversea's too. Now that was a POS, although the Brits loved its stopping power in The Falkland Island conflict.

In our hands it was old and unreliable.

The Styer is a fine weapon, its accurate (the FN wasn't), its easy to handle & maintain/clean and has served us well from Africa to the Middle East and to East Timor in the far east.

Grizzly 45

RFHazard wrote: »

I

presume you haven't used the Steyr yourself?

Nope ! Thats why I was asking and was under the impression it was a POS!

Your sources in the Southern Brigade have been in at least twenty years (if they are PDF). Some old sweats will always prefer what they were trained on initially and never move on from the "good old days".

Yup,and were not to happy with it either.

Walts ****eing on about which is "like the best rifle in the world ever like" is adolescent, and has nothing to do with a thread about a red top rag pissing on the DFs reputation for the sake of making hungover illiterates on a Sunday morning feel that there actual are dumber assholes than them out there.:mad:

Self inflicted injury if you cant hold your booze!Dont drink so much get a coffee and some anadin into you !Dont ASSume everyone who asks a question in a certain way is a Walt either.

Thrain

I was told by two separate people in the Rdf that a notice went around the armourys telling them that each steyr must be manually cocked and the breach checked to authenticate it. They are worried about them being replaced with these: http://www.mainirishairsoft.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=226 which break down like the real steel, and have unique serial numbers, not to mention looking and feeling like the real thing..

Poccington

Thrain wrote: »

I was told by two separate people in the Rdf that a notice went around the armourys telling them that each steyr must be manually cocked and the breach checked to authenticate it. They are worried about them being replaced with these: http://www.mainirishairsoft.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=226 which break down like the real steel, and have unique serial numbers, not to mention looking and feeling like the real thing..

I wouldn't be believing them too quickly.

It wasn't me!

So do any left-handed/left eye dominant Irish soldiers use it left-handed? I can't shoot right handed (I get muddled and confused) but am reasonably handy off my left, and it's what I train with.

IRISH RAIL

I cant believe that this thread has gotton to 3 pages seriously the whole story is a load of ****. its pure scaremongering from a newspaper thats still on the censors banned list, come on guys have we nothing else to talk about except pure bull**** ?

steyr fan

+1

Tribunius

It wasn't me! wrote: »

So do any left-handed/left eye dominant Irish soldiers use it left-handed? I can't shoot right handed (I get muddled and confused) but am reasonably handy off my left, and it's what I train with.

No there are no left handed steyrs in the Irish DF inventory. If you intend to join the DF you will have to learn to shoot from the right.

meathstevie

Mairt wrote: »

I'm in long enough to have initially trained with the FN, I served with it oversea's too. Now that was a POS, although the Brits loved its stopping power in The Falkland Island conflict.

In our hands it was old and unreliable.

The Styer is a fine weapon, its accurate (the FN wasn't), its easy to handle & maintain/clean and has served us well from Africa to the Middle East and to East Timor in the far east.

They must have seen some unreal amount of work or the Dept. of Defence was seriously mean on maintenance and repair budgets. I've had the pleasure of firing a nearly new FAL ( sporterised civvy semi-auto in 7.62 ) on a couple of occasion and I'd deem it to be accurate enough to use it as a deer hunting rifle any day.

Having said that I reckon that newspaper story is complete bull****. As far as I know the Irish military operates a personal issue system for all individual firearms ( pistols and rifles ) and an even slightly thorough inventory take would determine what soldier's rifle has gone missing without being reported and from there to jail would only be a matter of passing in front of the judge.

It wasn't me!

Tribunius wrote: »

No there are no left handed steyrs in the Irish DF inventory. If you intend to join the DF you will have to learn to shoot from the right.

One of its advantages is that it's easily adapted for left-handed shooters. If it's a personal issue, I don't see the problem in changing it over. Would be a complete pain in the arse if I were asked to change after half a decade of solid Olympic target shooting to do something completely alien when I can do pretty damn well off the left.

Morpheus

If youve ever handled the real AUG and the airsoft AUG, then you know this thread is taking the mickey, only the dumbest dumba$$ in the world would chance his arm at this.

For a start ive yet to see an airsoft Aug with a barrel grip that feels like the real thing.

Im sure anyone would easily notice the difference between the two if they were broken down infront of them.

In my unit at least and im sure this goes for the other RDF units around the country, safety and security with weapons is taken very seriously, each rifle is meticulously checked must be inspected before being stored back in a numbered position in the armoury.If a rifle is missing, they will know who signed it out and nobody moves until it is located.

Finally:
Read the posts, there are NO left hand Steyr Augs in the inventory, EVERYONE (yes even the south paws) learn to handle and shoot with the rounds ejecting from the right, it is a simple fact.

you can buy a left hand steyr in civvie land, but there are no conversion kits in the DF and (without going into any detail) you can be assured that there are situations we train in which take advantage of the fact that the round ejects to the right. All weapons handling is uniform across the forces and it will stay that way.

If you really really want to and nobody is looking, you can of course still fire it left handed, if you dont want to use your right eye again that is. (please dont attempt this at home, that was sarcasm)

It wasn't me!

There is no need to get rude. I wish the defence forces luck in conquering a pretty savage eye dominance of mine and half a decade of well ingrained habits and technique. They're going to have a tough time unless they want to give me an eyepatch to wear in the field.

iceage

Thanks Morpheus, I'm amazes this went on so long, I think also Irish Rail got it. That sunday paper, which in my opinion is a waste of a completely good tree came up with this rubbish and utter crap. Armoury proceedures would immediately have noticed anything as ridiculous as this tripe. And any member of the PDF/RDF could tell the differance in a second..

Rew

Poccington wrote: »

I wouldn't be believing them too quickly.

Why not? All DF units got a letter regarding this about 6 months ago, I would imagine its where the newspaper stories started.

Some clown sued the Army after injuing their eye while firing the FN left handed. You would want to be off your rocker to fire a Styer left handed and for the same reason the DF dont issue left handed rifles. If in the heat of the moment some picked up a leftie rifle could be nasty.

Morpheus

It wasn't me! wrote: »

There is no need to get rude. I wish the defence forces luck in conquering a pretty savage eye dominance of mine and half a decade of well ingrained habits and technique. They're going to have a tough time unless they want to give me an eyepatch to wear in the field.

I wasnt trying to be rude, i was pointing out that no matter how good a left handed shooter one is, that it had already been pointed out that the Steyr Aug on issue to irish soldiers was right handed only.

The army has made ZERO allowances for left handed shooters.

All soldiers are trained in the same way, to fire right handed, you will also be trained to fire all other weapons right handed, try placing a
SRAAW
http://www.mindef.gov.sg/imindef/news_and_events/nr/2004/sep/04sep04_nr/04sep04_fs.-imindefPars-0001-TextImage.imindefParstextimage.gif

or Javelin
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7c/Javelin3.jpg

on your left shoulder and look into the sight

Luckily for you,you can still throw grenades with your left hand though

If you join though, you will come under the command structure and WILL fire right handed regardless of how excellent an olympic shooter you are with your left handedness.:pac:

It wasn't me!

I'm right handed. I'm left eye dominant. Very dominant.

This is going to be a very, very large pain in the hole.

iceage

You could close both eyes....;)