Speeding and law making in Ireland

AugustusMaximus

From my expierience of driving on dual carriageways and motorways in Ireland, I'd say about half, if not more of people speed on these roads.

This brings me to a simple conclusion. If more than half of people in Ireland want a high speed limit on our motorways, why don't we group together and lobby for the speed limit to be raised.

A lot of other countries run with a limit of 130kph. Italy runs 150kph on certain roads and obviously Germany allows the motorist to decide whats safe on some of their autobahn.

This is a democracy and the majority should get what the majority wants.

I'd have no problem in seeing the motorway speed limit being upped to 130kph. IIRC, this has actully been discussed on a government level in the past ?

eringobragh

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

From my expierience of driving on dual carriageways and motorways in Ireland, I'd say about half, if not more of people speed on these roads.

This brings me to a simple conclusion. If more than half of people in Ireland want a high speed limit on our motorways, why don't we group together and lobby for the speed limit to be raised.

A lot of other countries run with a limit of 130kph. Italy runs 150kph on certain roads and obviously Germany allows the motorist to decide whats safe on some of their autobahn.

This is a democracy and the majority should get what the majority wants.

I'd have no problem in seeing the motorway speed limit being upped to 130kph. IIRC, this has actully been discussed on a government level in the past ?

...This should be good :pac: ...I think if the guards took a sensible attitude and pulled people who were taking the piss on these roads it would be idea as well. Well I agree with what your saying..However some people (you know who you are) on here would you believe, are all for the limit to be dropped to 100kmph on these roads.

Run_to_da_hills

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

A lot of other countries run with a limit of 130kph. Italy runs 150kph on certain roads and obviously Germany allows the motorist to decide whats safe on some of their autobahn.

This is a democracy and the majority should get what the majority wants.

I'd have no problem in seeing the motorway speed limit being upped to 130kph. IIRC, this has actully been discussed on a government level in the past ?

The problemb here is that this is Ireland and you are dealing with Irish drivers.

E92

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

The problem here is that this is Ireland and you are dealing with Irish drivers

+1.

That's why higher limits wouldn't really work here unfortunately.

130 is about as high as you could go realistically in this country I'm afraid.

You

I don't believe this will make any difference to people speeding. I think alot of people (myself included) drive 5 - 10 KPM over the limit on motorways, and think that they won't be pulled for such a minor infraction. Raising the limit to 130 KPM will just increase the average speed to 140KPM.

sickpuppy32

it aint going to happen - it'd be political suicide i f a politican proposed it. Remember when they uped the motorway speed limit to 120, the national safety facists went mad saying things like " hundreds more people will die "

E92

sickpuppy32 wrote: »

it aint going to happen - it'd be political suicide i f a politican proposed it. Remember when they uped the motorway speed limit to 120, the national safety facists went mad saying things like " hundreds more people will die "

The fact of the matter though is that that hasn't happened though.

As a matter of interest, what are the fatality rates on Motorways these days now that the limit is 75 mph versus back when the limit was 70 mph?

Having said that the RSA doesn't see anything wrong with the Green's nutty proposal to lower the limit on Motorways either to only 100 km/h, and the have a series of targets to improve speed limit compliance too.

Fortunately, judging by the reaction by the overwhelming majority of people when this was proposed, the lowering of speed limits on Motorways and main roads is looking like political suicide too.

100 km/h is just fine for wide single carriageway roads IMO.

bazz26

If we drive at 110kph in a 100kph zone then chances are if the limit is raised to 130kph we will drive above that limit too.

Unfortunately speed limits are genrally seen as minimum not maximum targets.

atlantean

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

A lot of other countries run with a limit of 130kph. Italy runs 150kph on certain roads and obviously Germany allows the motorist to decide whats safe on some of their autobahn.

TBF Their roads are usually built for these speeds where many of ours are not!

My issue is more with the fact that you can drive legally at 80Km/h on many R roads which can only be described as minor back roads in many cases where as there are steaches of new straight dual carriageway which only allow 60 or even 50Km/h :mad:

ninty9er

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

The problemb here is that this is Ireland and you are dealing with Irish drivers.

+2

I can manage to exceed the Motorway limit quite safely and by a good margin....but there will always be people in front doing 110-120 that WON'T pull in and aren't capable of driving faster.

ninty9er

E92 wrote: »

100 km/h is just fine for wide single carriageway roads IMO.

I would have said 120....but could deal with 110.

eringobragh

ninty9er wrote: »

+2

I can manage to exceed the Motorway limit quite safely and by a good margin....but there will always be people in front doing 110-120 that WON'T pull in and aren't capable of driving faster.

True some aren't capable of 60kmph IMO. Quite often, although I hate doing it I have to move into the left to pass the eegit hogging the overtaking lane to be greeted by ba beep of the horn and a flash of the lights by him/her. :mad:

Mr. Presentable

The problem is it doesn't matter what the limit is, the same people exceeding it now will exceed it no matter what it is. It's to do with the old "I am a better judge of what's safe for me than any legislator" notion that some drivers have. What they forget is there are other, perhaps less gifted, drivers sharing the road with them, over whose driving they have no control.

ninty9er

nipplenuts wrote: »

The problem is it doesn't matter what the limit is, the same people exceeding it now will exceed it no matter what it is. It's to do with the old "I am a better judge of what's safe for me than any legislator" notion that some drivers have. What they forget is there are other, perhaps less gifted, drivers sharing the road with them, over whose driving they have no control.

Well if it was 160, I'd have a physical issue in exceeding it, insofar as my car can't do it (not fully loaded with people and luggage anyway)....so I don't take that argument.

Mr. Presentable

ninty9er wrote: »

Well if it was 160, I'd have a physical issue in exceeding it, insofar as my car can't do it (not fully loaded with people and luggage anyway)....so I don't take that argument.

You'd just have to get a faster car!

Look, I don't think anyone suggested a limit of 160, so I don't accept your rebuttal

ninty9er

nipplenuts wrote: »

You'd just have to get a faster car!

Look, I don't think anyone suggested a limit of 160, so I don't accept your rebuttal

Well I'm suggesting it now;)

sickpuppy32

has anyone been on the autobans - no speed limit i believe -are they designed like irish motorways?

my pet hate is slow people in the overtaking lane thinking its a fast lane which it isn't.
on non motorways/ dual carriages i hate slow "sunday" drivers driving ten under the limit and causing traffic jams- they cause accidents to cause people get frustrated ben behind them for so long and then take a chance to overtake- i believe in some countries that if ur travelling slowly and have more than ten cars stuck behind you, your fined , i would love to see that over here

fumpidge

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

The problemb here is that this is Ireland and you are dealing with Irish drivers.

+3

ninty9er

sickpuppy32 wrote: »

has anyone been on the autobans - no speed limit i believe -are they designed like irish motorways?

Some are, even Coaches are allowed to do 100 on them.
Some are 3 lane, in which case don't get in the right hand lane unless you're familiar with 200km/h+....and if you see lights on the rearview horizon....get out of the effing way before you're a dent in someone's bonnet.

BrianD3

I think you'd have a hard time getting a majority to agree to a higher limit on motorways. Based on what I see the majority of drivers don't even get near 120 km/h on motorways in perfect conditions. On motorways I drive at the limit or a few km/h above (to compensate for a probable speedo overread) when safe to do so. I am rarely overtaken on a motorway yet I overtake loads of cars doing well below the limit. I'd say for every 1 car that overtakes me, I overtake 9 cars. In the UK even doing slightly above the 70 mph limit i'd be one of the slowest drivers on any clear motorway. In Ireland i'm one of the faster ones.

Irish drivers also are very slow on single carriageway N routes. Slow, and incapable of overtaking safely or at all. Spurn perfect overtaking opportunites then get impatient and overtake when it isn't safe/legal to do so. Rely on the vehicle in front moving into the HS before they overtake and still manage to make a balls of their overtake. Don't overtake but drive up the arse of the car in front so that nobody can leapfrog in between, big convoys then build up behind. Merge at a snails pace onto motorways. Etc. etc.

And I bet the same numpties doing 45 mph on N routes drive far too fast on narrow country boreens - no chance of stopping within the distance they can see to be clear let alone in the recommended half the distance they can see to be clear.

Alun

BrianD3 wrote: »

I think you'd have a hard time getting a majority to agree to a higher limit on motorways. Based on what I see the majority of drivers don't even get near 120 km/h on motorways in perfect conditions. On motorways I drive at the limit or a few km/h above (to compensate for a probable speedo overread) when safe to do so. I am rarely overtaken on a motorway yet I overtake loads of cars doing well below the limit. I'd say for every 1 car that overtakes me, I overtake 9 cars. In the UK even doing slightly above the 70 mph limit i'd be one of the slowest drivers on any clear motorway. In Ireland i'm one of the faster ones.

Irish drivers also are very slow on single carriageway N routes. Slow, and incapable of overtaking safely or at all. Spurn perfect overtaking opportunites then get impatient and overtake when it isn't safe/legal to do so. Rely on the vehicle in front moving into the HS before they overtake and still manage to make a balls of their overtake. Don't overtake but drive up the arse of the car in front so that nobody can leapfrog in between, big convoys then build up behind. Merge at a snails pace onto motorways. Etc. etc.

And I bet the same numpties doing 45 mph on N routes drive far too fast on narrow country boreens - no chance of stopping within the distance they can see to be clear let alone in the recommended half the distance they can see to be clear.

QFT. In a nutshell what I find so frustrating about driving in Ireland.

ninty9er

BrianD3 wrote: »

On motorways I drive at the limit or a few km/h above (to compensate for a probable speedo overread) when safe to do so. I am rarely overtaken on a motorway yet I overtake loads of cars doing well below the limit.

While I do overtake a lot of people on the Motorway. I've never once not been overtaken. If I'm doing 140-150, I'll be overtaken at least 5-6 times between Mountrath and the Long Mile. And not by a crawl. It'll pass and be gone.

Seth Brundle

Personally, I'd like to see a higher average level of competency with drivers before the limits go any higher.
Whats the point of having 160km/h on a motorway only for some dopey git to tootle along obliviously in the overtraking lane at 80km/h?

ninty9er

kbannon wrote: »

Personally, I'd like to see a higher average level of competency with drivers before the limits go any higher.
Whats the point of having 160km/h on a motorway only for some dopey git to tootle along obliviously in the overtraking lane at 80km/h?

It's the only reason we don't have higher limits at the moment as far as I can see. What's worse is that it could take 40 years + to clear it out of the system

jimbling

Driving in the dual carriageway yesterday there was only one other car on the road. Naturally he was in the "fast lane" because he was doing the 100km/h .
I came up behind him. He did, at least, have the awareness to notice me and pulled into the left lane. I went passed, looked in my rear view mirror and he was moving back into the "fast lane" :eek:
How can people be this friggin stupid... I just don't understand

On the note of raising speed limits. Indeed, all Dual Carriageways should be put up to 120 and all motorways up to 140. But then, I would think that wouldn't I.

It's not going to happen though, because this country has a complete lack of understanding of driving. And there are far too many morons allowed on the road. So, safest (and cheapest) thing for the government to do is to keep speed limits down, and fine anyone who breaks the law... whether safely or not.

nipplenuts wrote: »

"I am a better judge of what's safe for me than any legislator"

I hate when people quote this in a sarcastic tone. I do know whats safer for me than any legislator. In every aspect of my life. Legislators know very very little about whats safe for me at any given time.

vibe666

the should introduce a competency test for drivers every 10 years.

Nothing overly major, just theoretical scenarios like have been mentioned in the thread already, such as checking what the fast lane is for, speed limits on certain roads, what that little stick is for that hangs off the side of your steering wheel, the 'other' use for the makup mirror in the centre of your windscreen, what lanes to be in at roundabouts, etc. etc.

anyone who fails it 3 times in a row (to account for bad luck & nerves) should be made to re-take their test and drive a 'D' for dunce sticker (like an L plate) for the next 12 months.

on a decent 2-3 lane road any half competent driver should be able to drive at 130km/h without any problems. It's just a shame that there aren't that many decent drivers on the road. driving safely at speed on a motorway type road should be a standard part of any driving test.

Tigger

BrianD3 wrote: »

I think you'd have a hard time getting a majority to agree to a higher limit on motorways. Based on what I see the majority of drivers don't even get near 120 km/h on motorways in perfect conditions. On motorways I drive at the limit or a few km/h above (to compensate for a probable speedo overread) when safe to do so. I am rarely overtaken on a motorway yet I overtake loads of cars doing well below the limit. I'd say for every 1 car that overtakes me, I overtake 9 cars. In the UK even doing slightly above the 70 mph limit i'd be one of the slowest drivers on any clear motorway. In Ireland i'm one of the faster ones.

Irish drivers also are very slow on single carriageway N routes. Slow, and incapable of overtaking safely or at all. Spurn perfect overtaking opportunites then get impatient and overtake when it isn't safe/legal to do so. Rely on the vehicle in front moving into the HS before they overtake and still manage to make a balls of their overtake. Don't overtake but drive up the arse of the car in front so that nobody can leapfrog in between, big convoys then build up behind. Merge at a snails pace onto motorways. Etc. etc.

And I bet the same numpties doing 45 mph on N routes drive far too fast on narrow country boreens - no chance of stopping within the distance they can see to be clear let alone in the recommended half the distance they can see to be clear.

these thinygs aren't ever addressed

SuperGrover

"The problem here is that this is Ireland and you are dealing with Irish drivers."

Is this really true? I have travelled around a bit - Europe, Asia, and I have to say I have seen atrocious driving everywhere. Irish drivers seem relatively calm and polite compared to Italians, French, Malaysians, etc.

TBH - it seems to be a boring cliché trotted out all the time.

knuth

I know personally that when I'm 'overtaking' on the 'motorways' that I'm paying as much attention to the roadside as I am to the actual road. :rolleyes:

Yakult

SuperGrover wrote: »

"The problem here is that this is Ireland and you are dealing with Irish drivers."

Is this really true? I have travelled around a bit - Europe, Asia, and I have to say I have seen atrocious driving everywhere. Irish drivers seem relatively calm and polite compared to Italians, French, Malaysians, etc.

TBH - it seems to be a boring cliché trotted out all the time.

Its not a cliche when your experiencing it each day.

javaboy

ninty9er wrote: »

Some are 3 lane, in which case don't get in the right hand lane unless you're familiar with 200km/h+....and if you see lights on the rearview horizon....get out of the effing way before you're a dent in someone's bonnet.

Wait it's Germany. Don't you mean the left hand lane? :pac:

vibe666 wrote: »

the should introduce a competency test for drivers every 10 years.

Nothing overly major, just theoretical scenarios like have been mentioned in the thread already, such as checking what the fast lane is for, speed limits on certain roads

The ironing is delicious.

I agree with you though. But it will always be way down the list of priorities while the existing learner system is still a shambles.

SuperGrover

Makes no sense. This is the country you are driving in. You experience bad driving (BTW - some driver behaviour is awful).

But to surmise that this a uniquely Irish experience based on your dail Irish commute is flawed logic.

blastman

bazz26 wrote: »

Unfortunately speed limits are genrally seen as minimum not maximum targets.

You should try taking my route to work in the morning... :rolleyes:

ninty9er

javaboy wrote: »

Wait it's Germany. Don't you mean the left hand lane? :pac:

Indeed I did. apologies. reverse the whole lane thing in that post!

E92

Irish drivers aren't that bad in some areas. In town I rarely find myself having to brake because some moron decides to shoot out on top of me when trying to enter the road. People generally tend to be ok with lane changing in town as well(apart from roundabouts though where they are woeful).

On single carriageways provided people travel at the speed limit you very rarely see bad driving. Yes people do exceed the speed limit but I don't consider that to be bad driving provided it is safe to do so.

We are atrocious driving on Motorways and Dual Carriageways though, for the simple reason that I regularly pass people doing 80 or 90 when they should be doing 100 or 120. You are supposed to drive at the speed limit when it is safe to do, not for nothing do they expect you to drive at the speed limit in the driving when it is safe to do so.

I have no tolerance for Sunday drivers, so I'm usually found hogging the overtaking lane overtaking all the slow people(and there are lots on Motorways but yet not that many on single carriageways for some reason), especially on Motorways where there seems to be a phobia for exceeding 100 km/h.

The amount of people that drive slowly on a motorway never fails to amaze me. People not driving in the correct lane is another bugbear of mine too, and on 3 lane roads this almost always happens.

Yet you get people exceeding the 50 km/h limit by 20-30 km/h.

We are absolutely diabolical at roundabouts too, another pet hate of mine.

People either never indicate irrespective of what exit they are going to take(the only time you should approach a roundabout not indicating is if you're taking the second exit, unless of course the second exit is to the right in which case you indicate right approaching the roundabout), indicate left even though they're not taking the first exit(left is exclusively for the first exit when approaching a roundabout), indicate right(all other scenarios) and don't switch over to indicating left just after the exit preceding the one the wish to take, indicate left the whole way around and I'm sure there's others I've thought of too.

Oh yeah people aren't very good at knowing what lane they are supposed to be in approaching a roundabout either(left for exits 1 and 2, right for all others, and if there are road markings then the road markings overrule the above rule and you must always follow the road markings(which people going from Limerick to Cork never do at the roundabout in Mallow:mad:)), and don't do lane changing when appropriate either.

If fairness people do always yield when required though.

Steve

In Ireland the incompetent minority dictate the speed limits because the government don't have the balls to put a system in place that will weed them off the road - it might cost votes...

And to those advocating the German autobahns - yes they are built to a far superior standard, they're thicker. smoother and the bends have a much greater radius than anything in the UK or Ireland - this enables them to have the higher limit.

E92

SteveC wrote: »

In Ireland the incompetent minority dictate the speed limits because the government don't have the balls to put a system in place that will weed them off the road - it might cost votes...

And to those advocating the German autobahns - yes they are built to a far superior standard, they're thicker. smoother and the bends have a much greater radius than anything in the UK or Ireland - this enables them to have the higher limit.

I don't know, I've gone on some German autobahns with no speed limit and there's no hard should on them. I don't think the autobahns are quite as amazing as some people would have us believe.

The BIG difference is the standard of driving on them, people always stay in the appropriate lane and if you're in the wrong lane you'll be flashed straight away to move in and to let the faster car through.

A road has to be built to a certain international standard before it can be called a motorway anyway.

Steve

E92 wrote: »

I don't know, I've gone on some German autobahns with no speed limit and there's no hard should on them. I don't think the autobahns are quite as amazing as some people would have us believe.

The BIG difference is the standard of driving on them, people always stay in the appropriate lane and if you're in the wrong lane you'll be flashed straight away to move in and to let the faster car through.

A road has to be built to a certain international standard before it can be called a motorway anyway.

I've no source for this apart from a discovery channel type documentary that I watched about how they built them. They are definitely better built and have a lot longer intervals for maintenance etc..
I agree with the better driving standard as well - my first trip was as a passenger at 250kmh about 8 years ago - scared the bejeesus out of me but was perfectly safe.

ArphaRima

I always drive at the speed I deem appropriate for the road, the conditions, and the traffic. The posted speed limit has little bearing on that decision. Then again the speeds I am comfortable at are generally higher than the posted limit.

As for the comment on Irish drivers, despite the number of idiots I DO see) we are generally very good on a world scale. Only lane discipline/merging really lets us down IMHO.

Alun

E92 wrote: »

I don't know, I've gone on some German autobahns with no speed limit and there's no hard should on them. I don't think the autobahns are quite as amazing as some people would have us believe.

Indeed. I've driven on some of the older concrete paved (bump-de-bump-de-bump) autobahns which are unrestricted but would have 100km/h limits slapped on them here because some desk bound 'traffic engineer' decides they don't adhere to the design standards. If you get off the main arterial autobahns on to some of the older, more minor ones, say around the Ruhrgebiet, and you'll see some quite serious bends in places.

D_murph

fluffer wrote: »

I always drive at the speed I deem appropriate for the road, the conditions, and the traffic. The posted speed limit has little bearing on that decision. Then again the speeds I am comfortable at are generally higher than the posted limit.

i cant believe youve gone this long without the usual suspects pouncing on you mercilessly for that statement in here lol

cyclopath2001

E92 wrote: »

You are supposed to drive at the speed limit when it is safe to do, not for nothing do they expect you to drive at the speed limit in the driving when it is safe to do so..

Legal refs please?

javaboy

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

Legal refs please?

I'm pretty sure there are none. I think the ROTR say you shouldn't impede other traffic but I'm almost 100% certain that there is no requirement to drive at the limit.

Cool Mo D

About the Autobahns: they're really not built to any higher standard than Irish motorways, slightly lower even: the majority have 2 lanes each way, same as Irish motorways, and especially at junctions they have short merges and extremely sharply curved slip roads, that wouldn't usually be seen here. The older ones don't even have hard shoulders.
It is the drivers they have, with very strict enforcement of tailgating, no stopping, and lane hogging laws by cops that makes them work so well (along with far superior signage).

D_murph

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

Legal refs please?

eringobragh

D_murph wrote: »

lol




..

D_murph

eringobragh wrote: »

lol

E92

javaboy wrote: »

I'm pretty sure there are none. I think the ROTR say you shouldn't impede other traffic but I'm almost 100% certain that there is no requirement to drive at the limit.

They hardly fail you in the driving test for not driving at the speed limit(not over it obviously) when it is safe to do so for the good of their health.

I don't think there is an actual rule that specifically states you must drive at the speed limit when it is safe to do so, but certainly it is common courtesy and basic good manners that you should drive at the speed limit when appropriate.

Certainly the ROTR specifies AFAIK that you must not hold up progress, and by not driving at the speed limit when it is safe to do so you are holding up people, so that implys that you are supposed to drive at the speed limit.

If the ROTR said specifically that you have to drive at the speed limit then I would have said that you must drive at the speed limit; as the ROTR implies that you have to but doesn't specifically say it, I said you are supposed to drive at the speed limit for a very good reason.

There is a big difference in meaning between the words "have to/must" and "supposed to" a point evidently missed on some.

They certainly do not mean the same thing.

Lecture in English now over:D!

gyppo

nipplenuts wrote: »

The problem is it doesn't matter what the limit is, the same people exceeding it now will exceed it no matter what it is. It's to do with the old "I am a better judge of what's safe for me than any legislator" notion that some drivers have. What they forget is there are other, perhaps less gifted, drivers sharing the road with them, over whose driving they have no control.

Totally agree with this post.

Also, the "a la carte" interpretation of what many drivers feel is a safe speed can put "lesser skilled" drivers in danger.
Picture this scenario: How many times have you looked in your rearview mirror (whilst driving at the legal limit) and seen a dot in the distance when about to carry out an overtaking manouvre? How long before that dot is on top of you?? Can you tell from a quick glance in the mirror what speed this distant dot is travelling at??

/edit Im not saying speed limits should not be altered. What I am saying is that limits should be enforced, so everyone is playing by the same rulebook.

E92

gyppo wrote: »

Totally agree with this post.

Also, the "a la carte" interpretation of what many drivers feel is a safe speed can put "lesser skilled" drivers in danger.

So what you're saying is that we should slow down to allow incompetent people drive?

If people are not capable of driving properly then they should be put off the road.

bonkey

My tuppence on the subject...

German autobahns are a mixed bag. The standard of driving on them is mixed. They don't work perfectly. Some sections are in need of a total overhaul. I've done 190+ on them, and I've been stuck in hours of traffic-jams at all sorts of hours. I've seen some of the most idiotic driving ever on them: as a passenger, at 160-170, someone cut in front of us about 50 cm from our front bumper. The driver of the car I was in closed up and put on his heads, still at the same speeds, to try and express his opinion of the stupidity of the other driver. Genius.

But here's the thing...Germany is big. There is real time to be gained when you are covering serious distance, and can do stretches at 200-ish instead of 120-ish. I've cut an hour of a long journey that way (and paid for it in fuel economy).

Ireland is not big. If you allowed people to drive at 160 instead of 120, it wouldn't up their average speeds by 40 km/hr...it would probably up it more like 10km/hr. Over distances you're likely to drive in Ireland, that will maybe cut 10-15 minutes of a non-trivial journey. Up from 120 only to 130 or 140....and it will make SFA difference...about as much as you'd gain by hitting a green light instead of a red. So why bother? Really....what is the point?

Incidentally, Germany are increasingly reducing the amount of unrestricted stretches, and are even talking about doing away with them entirely. Every so often, there's talk from one mainland nation or another about dropping the entire speed-limit to a max of 100 km/h.