Partner doesn't want marriage

LegacyUser

I just wondered what people might think of this, especially men.

I'm with my partner for two years, he's 33 and I'm 30. We live together and I'm mad about him and as far as I know, he's mad about me too. But my problem is that whenever the subject of marriage comes up, he really argues a case against it. He insists he doesn't want it and that it ruins good relationships. I on the other hand can't wait to get married, have always dreamed of my wedding day so this really upsets me. Sometimes, I kind of get the feeling that he's even overemphasising his point for my benefit. We havent as yet seriously discussed it, just casually, but Im worried its going to be a major issue down the line. I want kids too so I dont want to float along in this relationship, only to be left single at 40 and unable to have children at all. I dont want to be left single at all because I really love this man but what can I do if he just doesnt want marriage??? Im afraid to even ask this, but is it possible he just doesnt want to marry me?
Any thoughts appreciated.

dudara

Maybe, but on the other hand why is marriage so important to you. Maybe he's reacting to the vibes that you are giving out.

Try to relax over this and then sit down and talk to him earnestly about it. If this is so important to you, then you need to get this idea across to him now rather than waiting a few years and hoping that it will resolve itself.

zoro

I think it's very possible that he just doesn't think he needs marriage to prove that he wants to stay with you. I'm very much like that, and absolutely hate the idea of marriage because of the religious ties it has.

If he's not interested in getting "real" married, he should still be interested in a civil marriage, one that is legal but not religious, and is required for you both to benefit from the tax and insurance caveats out there for next-of-kin and whatnot.

If he's not even willing to do this (ever, that is) then you may want to look elsewhere. If he *is* willing to do this, however, then you may have to decide if you're willing to drop your dreams of the perfect white-wedding (which you should drop anyway, if you're asking me ... ) and take what you can get with the man you love

Overheal

Californication, tbh. A man, his 13 year old daughter and the ex-girlfriend that bore her.

deisemum

I think the last thing anyone wants is to feel railroaded into marriage. Maybe he's feeling a bit under pressure so perhaps it might be better if you just agree with him that you will not bring up the subject of marriage for a year or some other time frame.

Some people have a strong believe in marriage and see it as the ultimate commitment in a relationship. Others don't and are quite happy to live together. It's down to what's right for each couple. Personally marriage has been more fulfilling than living together which we'd done for a couple of years.

I'm married over 18 years nearly 21 years together and there's been ups and downs, mainly ups and marriage has enhanced our relationship so there are people who've got happy marriages. My parents on the other hand were from a generation where you stayed married even if you hated each others guts which they did. It still didn't put me off marriage. Often those who divorce are not against marriage and will remarry. It's all down to peoples different values and what's right for them.

If after an agreed time and he's still against marriage but it's important to you then perhaps it's not the relationship for you.

miles teg

GFforever wrote: »

... I want kids too so I dont want to float along in this relationship, only to be left single at 40 and unable to have children at all...

You don't have to be married to have children you know. I think most children these days are born outside marriage. Plus I think getting a mortgage together is more of a commitment these days than marriage itself

seamus

miles teg wrote: »

You don't have to be married to have children you know. I think most children these days are born outside marriage. Plus I think getting a mortgage together is more of a commitment these days than marriage itself

Kids outside marriage still doesn't appeal to many people primarily because of the taxation and legal ties/benefits that a marriage provides.

The most obvious one of these that's used is tax credits. If you're married and one person decides to stay home to look after the children, then the other person can take their tax credits and tax bands, meaning that they get around €15k tax-free, *and* the first €70k is taxed at 20%.

If both parents are working, obviously this benefit is limited, but it can be jigged around to get the best out of it - e.g. one partner works part-time and pays 41% tax on the lot, while the other works full-time and takes all of the tax credits.

There are way more benefits, but that's one of the biggest ones. Succession rights and the like also play a big part - if either partner dies when you're unmarried, then sorting out the assets after death can be a huge headache.

Yes, there are a lot of people who claim that marriage is pointless nowadays, but they've not looked at the bigger picture. They're just looking at the religious aspect, which in fact, a lot more couples are abandoning nowadays but getting married anyway. I know tonnes of people who've been having civil ceremonies.

miles teg

seamus wrote: »

Kids outside marriage still doesn't appeal to many people primarily because of the taxation and legal ties/benefits that a marriage provides.

The most obvious one of these that's used is tax credits. If you're married and one person decides to stay home to look after the children, then the other person can take their tax credits and tax bands, meaning that they get around €15k tax-free, *and* the first €70k is taxed at 20%.

If both parents are working, obviously this benefit is limited, but it can be jigged around to get the best out of it - e.g. one partner works part-time and pays 41% tax on the lot, while the other works full-time and takes all of the tax credits.

There are way more benefits, but that's one of the biggest ones. Succession rights and the like also play a big part - if either partner dies when you're unmarried, then sorting out the assets after death can be a huge headache.

Yes, there are a lot of people who claim that marriage is pointless nowadays, but they've not looked at the bigger picture. They're just looking at the religious aspect, which in fact, a lot more couples are abandoning nowadays but getting married anyway. I know tonnes of people who've been having civil ceremonies.

are you an accountant or something? when people decide to have children, to hell with the financing of it... things always work out. The point of my first post is that the op shouldn't feel pressure to get married first in order to have children. I'm sure they could manage the extra cost out of wedlock

seamus

I was simply explaining the rationale for having children after marriage. And no, I'm not an accountant

From a man's POV, it makes far more sense to have children after marriage, as in the event that the relationship breaks down, it gives him an improvement on his non-existent rights to his children.

Sleepy

OP, it sounds in some ways like you're more concerned with the wedding day than actually being married? Maybe I've totally picked that up wrong but it's very common these days.

Also, you're only together for two years. My partner's due our first child together next week and it'd still be a few years before I'd even consider a wedding as I've always said I'd never marry someone until we'd been together for at least 5 years...

I'd say deisemum has a point when she says that your partner possibly feels like your pressuring him into the idea. It's a fairly common sticking point between couples in their early thirties.

I'd advise talking to him about it with the opening sentence being something along the lines of 'I'm not asking about the next year or two but are you ever interested in being married?'... Seamus's point about the civil ceremony is a very good one. Your partner might be of the same mindset as me where a church wedding would be something I'd feel hugely hypocritical about and really wouldn't enjoy as I'm quite anti-religion.

jim o doom

He could just be adverse to the idea of marriage, maybe his parents marriage has biased him against the idea (or someone in his family or whatever) - I'm with my girlfriend 7 years, we are getting married June next year, and I was more or less totally against marriage for about 5 of those years, but I grew not to hate the idea, and it eventually seemed like a good idea - I am younger than the OP- only 27 but me and my OH had been together a significant amount of time (5 years) before I even considered the idea. And even if he doesn't ever like the idea of marriage, that doesn't mean he won't want to stay with you &/or have kids with you down the line - he may just be against marriage.
Also you are only going out 2 years.. you may be a bit older & feel your "biological" clock ticking away, but you need to not be putting undue pressure on your relationship - take any normal man and then 2 years down the line of a relationship, start stressing about kids and marriage, and potentially you could be ending any reasonable relationship that you will be in.

TheBigFella

GFforever wrote: »

I'm with my partner for two years,

2 years to me seems a little soon to be talking about marriage and it could be this that your OH is afraid of.
Personally I think marriage is so under rated in this day and age and people come up with so many excuses not to get married, Not religious, better off financially, afraid of life time commitment etc...

If you don't get married:
Your partner will always be 'single'
Your kids will probably have a different surname to you or their 'dad'
You will always doubt your OH's full commitment
You will always resent them for not respecting your wishes

As one of the other posters said more and more kids are being born outside marriage. The family as we all knew it is becoming a thing of the past. We are following the UK & the USA with the numbers of kids with '2' Fathers and spend their Saturdays in McDonalds during visitation.


As I said 2 years is a bit soon to require a definite answer yet. Too many rush into it and split up very shortly after it however you need to clarify your OH's opinion as it may not change later.

best of luck anyhow.

seamus

TheBigFella wrote: »

2 years to me seems a little soon to be talking about marriage and it could be this that your OH is afraid of.

I think society's attitude has something of a part to play in this.

In your twenties, people don't bat an eyelid or give you any grief if you play the field a little and enjoy yourself. You're "allowed" to have 3 or 4 serious relationships between 17 and 29, where you're insanely in love, but which ultimately peter out and end in nothing. Nobody wonders what you're doing wrong or why you're wasting time.

Once you hit thirty though, people's attitudes change. Suddenly it's not OK to have a fling. If you're in a relationship, you should be in it with a view to settling down and having children. And if your new partner isn't interested in this, then it's time to ditch him/her and find someone with the same goals as you.

I think the pressure exists for both men and women over 30, but it's more pronounced on women due to the biological clock issue. I've had women admit to me that they have no interest in, "wasting time" with someone who doesn't see marraige as a natural progression of the relationship. And by "natural progression", they mean sooner rather than later.

So if they were both 25, then yes I would say that 2 years is too soon to be talking about it, but seeing as he's 33 I wouldn't condemn the OP at all for making sure that both of them are clear about what this relationship is.

Nevyn

Parents do not have to be married for children to be registered with their father's surname.
A committed relationship is a committed relationship marragie does not change that level of commitment but it does bring legal changes, benefits and responsibilities.
You should research it from that point of view and put those arguments to him.

cafecolour

GFforever wrote: »

have always dreamed of my wedding day so this really upsets me.

That's the sort of line that scares me. Do you have specific dreams and ideas of your married life together? Or are you mostly fixated on one big perfect day party thing? If it's the later, I'd say you should revaluate your priorities.

Having said that, I think a lot of guys will go on for ages with the status quo. At some point, you may have to say "Look I love you, but I really need to take this to the next level and get married. If you don't see that happening soon, we may not be as suited for each other as I thought we were." or something like that.

GFforever wrote: »

I want kids too so I dont want to float along in this relationship, only to be left single at 40 and unable to have children at all.

Does he want kids? That's a bigger issue in many respects than whether he wants to get married.

beth-lou

It is possible to not believe in marraige but to have a totally commited relationship. And that works fine if both partners are in agreement on this.

However if one really wants to get married then you have a problem. No matter how commited he says he is, it is no substitute for what you want. If you are to stay together one of you is going to have to compromise. Either you will forego the big day and all that it entails thereafter or he will do it to make you happy.

You really need to think about whether or not you can give up on the idea of marraige. And he needs to think about whether or not he is willimg compromise on his idea of never getting married. Somewhere you are going to have find a middle ground or else split up.

I understand at 30 you want to know what direction you are going in and that should not be a problem for him to talk about if he is commited to you, regardless of the marraige question. If he has a problem discussing what direction you are going in and about your future together, then possibly he isn't as commited to the relationship as you are.

Try to sort it out soon, so if you do split you're not approaching 40, as you said yourself. I know it is a difficult conversation to have, but it will be better to know where you stand. x

Pigletlover

cafecolour wrote: »

GFforever wrote:

have always dreamed of my wedding day so this really upsets me.

That's the sort of line that scares me. Do you have specific dreams and ideas of your married life together? Or are you mostly fixated on one big perfect day party thing? If it's the later, I'd say you should revaluate your priorities.

I was thinking the same thing.

OP maybe he just doesn't believe in marriage. If he loves you and is committed to you then I don't really see the issue. Surely you wouldn't want him to feel like he's being forced into marrying you? Or maybe he does some day want to get married, but feels it's a bit soon to be talking about it, two years isn't that long to be going out with someone. On the other hand if he doesn't want children and you do, then I would see this as an issue. Talk to him and see where he stands, he is the only one who can tell you waht he does or doesn't want.

b3t4

I really don't see how discussing marriage after 2yrs is too soon. My partner and I discussed marriage and kids in the first few months. I'm a good few years younger than the OP as well.

For me, a relationship is a verbal agreement that you will stay with the other person. Marriage is a legal statement to that verbal agreement.

Legally marriage is more solid than a verbal agreement. Also, from what I am aware, there is no such thing as a common law husband/wife in Ireland. Should anything happen to either of ye it'd be a legal nightmare. Add kids to that question and the situation is even worse.

I find the idea that marriage is tied to religion to be pretty old fashioned.

You've doubts about this relationship and I don't blame you. You're gut is telling you something and I don't think you like what's it telling you.

A.

LegacyUser

Hi OP, Two types of people in the world.

1. Those who fear marriage

2. Those who idealise and fantasise about marriage

Sounds like your fella is a 1 and you are a 2.

Why is marriage so important to you? .....would it be enough to live together and maybe even have kids together?

You could call the kids his surname .....

He probably feels dread at the idea of many things eg:

1. You becoming Bridezilla (talking about nothing but invitations, dresses and all that for about 2 years, if you are not interested in this stuff, it really is hard to listen to)

2. Being irretrievably bound to someone emotionally, legally, financially for years, possibly forever, the only hope of escape if it goes wrong (50% of marriages do go wrong) is a 4 year process of messy divorce.

3 .Gaining an extra set of relatives.

4. Having to waste 30 or 40 grand on a wedding that could be used more constructively holidays etc

5. The wedding day itself, having to get dressed up like a thick and being the centre of attention all day is some peoples idea of a living nightmare.

In short, I can really see where he is coming from, from his point of view its just a load of stress and hassle he is not interested in.

It seems lots of times after 2 years of preparations for a wedding couples are so frazzled, stressed and broke that the whole thing becomes a giant charade....and the couple is less close than ever but putting on this big front.

I am a girl and there is no way in hell I would ever go down the aisle with anyone, if you ask me its all a load of vanity.

If you really, really have to get married, say for the sake of the kids or tax breaks and all that you could just quietly do it in a registry office, at least that way you wouldn't be putting him through the whole wedding nightmare and religous side, divorce could be quicker and less messy if needs be.

Sleepy

FeelHisPain wrote: »

Hi OP, Two types of people in the world.

1. Those who fear marriage

2. Those who idealise and fantasise about marriage

Sounds like your fella is a 1 and you are a 2.

Gross over-simplification that reads like a self-help book written by a 'Dr' that bought their qualifications from an on-line 'univercity' but I'd agree with almost everything you said after that...

AngryBadger

OP you're together 2 years, and you're talking about marraige, first off that strikes me as pure madness.

Second of all, marraige has nothing to do with having children. Ok, indirectly since it's probably a more practical arrangement than having kids outside of wedlock, but the two are not inextricably linked.

If you're with this guy 2 years, and you've already had several discussions about this then I think you're getting the wrong end of the stick because you're putting the cart before the horse (ooooohhh! Mixed metaphors:D).

As a guy, if a girl started talking about marraige when we were together less than 2 years, i'd be a little freaked. And if she kept bringing it up not only would I proceed to get more freaked out, but I'd be put off the idea altogether.

You're broaching this WAAAAAYYYYYY too early IMO and consequently your partner is not comfortable, and therefore resistant to the idea.

You may be all in a tither about the idea of getting married, and maybe you're even ready for it (although i doubt it tbh), but your partner clearly isn't and by badgering him about it you're actually increasing his resistance to the idea. Leave it alone for a while, come back to it further down the line. Otherwise you're just creating a problem.

beth-lou

FeelHisPain wrote: »

Hi OP, Two types of people in the world.

1. Those who fear marriage

2. Those who idealise and fantasise about marriage

.

No 3. Those who are comfortable with marraige and all that it entails.

Marraige is more than the big day at the altar. It is a legal commitment to the one you love, which is only scarey if you are scared of commiting to one person for the rest of your life.

Why is marriage so important to you? .....would it be enough to live together and maybe even have kids together?

You could call the kids his surname .....

Maybe she wants the security and legal rights it affords a couple.

1. You becoming Bridezilla (talking about nothing but invitations, dresses and all that for about 2 years, if you are not interested in this stuff, it really is hard to listen to)

That's a huge assumption and trivial if marraige is being considered.

2. Being irretrievably bound to someone emotionally, legally, financially for years, possibly forever, the only hope of escape if it goes wrong (50% of marriages do go wrong) is a 4 year process of messy divorce.

If this is his reason then he has commitment issues and he should be honest with her and let her find someone who does want to make that commitment.

3 .Gaining an extra set of relatives.

Seriuosly???? They are as close when you are a couple as when you get married. That's just ridiculous.

4. Having to waste 30 or 40 grand on a wedding that could be used more constructively holidays etc

Absolutely not neccessary. they could have a cheap civil ceremony and dinner in a nice restaurant.

5. The wedding day itself, having to get dressed up like a thick and being the centre of attention all day is some peoples idea of a living nightmare.

That's your issue. Some people like to get dressed up. most brides that I've seen looked beautiful and enjoyed wearing their dress.

In short, I can really see where he is coming from, from his point of view its just a load of stress and hassle he is not interested in.

It doesn't have to be stressful.

It seems lots of times after 2 years of preparations for a wedding couples are so frazzled, stressed and broke that the whole thing becomes a giant charade....and the couple is less close than ever but putting on this big front

. Have yet to see that myself.

I am a girl and there is no way in hell I would ever go down the aisle with anyone, if you ask me its all a load of vanity.

Some people get married for more solid reasons than the ones you have pointed out.

beth-lou

I really wish we knew what age each of us are because I'm guessing that the age difference is making a big impact on points of view here.
At 30 years of age being with someone 2 years is well long enough to know what's what. At 20 definitely not. But by 30 you certainly know what you want and if she wants kids and marraige why waste her time with someone who's just not going to make that commitment. She has every right to know where they stand on that issue.

Tupins

FeelHisPain wrote: »

Hi OP, Two types of people in the world.

1. Those who fear marriage

2. Those who idealise and fantasise about marriage

Sounds like your fella is a 1 and you are a 2.

Why is marriage so important to you? .....would it be enough to live together and maybe even have kids together?

You could call the kids his surname .....

He probably feels dread at the idea of many things eg:

1. You becoming Bridezilla (talking about nothing but invitations, dresses and all that for about 2 years, if you are not interested in this stuff, it really is hard to listen to)

2. Being irretrievably bound to someone emotionally, legally, financially for years, possibly forever, the only hope of escape if it goes wrong (50% of marriages do go wrong) is a 4 year process of messy divorce.

3 .Gaining an extra set of relatives.

4. Having to that could be used more constructively holidays etc

5. The wedding day itself, having to get dressed up like a thick and being the centre of attention all day is some peoples idea of a living nightmare.

In short, I can really see where he is coming from, from his point of view its just a load of stress and hassle he is not interested in.

It seems lots of times after 2 years of preparations for a wedding couples are so frazzled, stressed and broke that the whole thing becomes a giant charade....and the couple is less close than ever but putting on this big front.

I am a girl and there is no way in hell I would ever go down the aisle with anyone, if you ask me its all a load of vanity.

If you really, really have to get married, say for the sake of the kids or tax breaks and all that you could just quietly do it in a registry office, at least that way you wouldn't be putting him through the whole wedding nightmare and religous side, divorce could be quicker and less messy if needs be.

I just couldn't read this post without replying.

It seems that everyone here is confusing the word 'wedding' with the word 'marriage' as if they were the same and completely interchangable.

I am married and in my opinion they are two COMPLETELY different things.

"Two types of people in the world.

1. Those who fear marriage

2. Those who idealise and fantasise about marriage"

This is total rubbish. Yes those two types of people do exist but you seem to have conveniently forgotten about the people who have a healthy respect for marriage, are prepared to embrace it and have no delusions about it's realities.

It's such a boring cliché to assume that every bride will automatically become a bridezilla and who says you HAVE to "waste 30 or 40 grand on a wedding", "get dressed up like a thick", or spend "2 years of preparations" - believe me I did none of those things and I had a beautiful wedding day.

Also, Zoro - a civil wedding may not be 'real' in your eyes but as someone who was not married in a church (shock horror) I can assure you that my marriage is as real as any other. Marriage does not necesarily have to have anything to do with religion, neither does a wedding. Especially now that you can get married pretty much anywhere in Ireland once you have the propper licence in place. So those who use religion as an excuse better come up with something else!

To be honest, I am as against the traditionall Irish wedding as a lot of other people are - and I always thought I wouldn't get married because of that until I realised that marriage has nothing to do with going to a hotel for a meal, booking bands, buying a ridiculously expensive dress and whatever else but please stop using all of the wedding garbage as a valid argument against marriage, it just doesn't hold up!

OP I think you need to ask yourself - do you want to get married or do you want a wedding?

Darragh29

Maybe it's just the cost of the occasion? I'd love to be married but my money has always had to go somewhere else in recent years...

Darragh29

Tupins wrote: »

"Two types of people in the world.

1. Those who fear marriage

2. Those who idealise and fantasise about marriage"

I think there is also a category of people who would like to be married or get married but the cost of the day is a major factor, especially now that credit is tightening and money has to go further...

stovelid

GFforever wrote: »

I on the other hand can't wait to get married, have always dreamed of my wedding day so this really upsets me. .

This is the bit that's worrying. You're 30, not 45. I certainly wouldn't be in a rush if I was him, either. Marriage isn't going to copper-fasten a weak relationship, and it should not be seen as a place you strive to get to before you can say we're together forever.

If you really want him to move on this, try and approach it from the idea of what would be amenable to him about marriage. For example, as Seamus said, if you plan to have kids, it's more convenient (for taxation and inheritance) to get married, and speaking as a man: a relatively better place for him to be with regards to his rights as a father if you ever split up.

I think you should also be prepared to compromise as well. If he did eventually consent, he should have the right to demur at the idea of My Wedding Day and opt for a discreet ceremony.

Sleepy wrote: »

Gross over-simplification that reads like a self-help book written by a 'Dr' that bought their qualifications from an on-line 'univercity'

Each to their own opinion tbh.

banquo

seamus wrote: »

I was simply explaining the rationale for having children after marriage. And no, I'm not an accountant

From a man's POV, it makes far more sense to have children after marriage, as in the event that the relationship breaks down, it gives him an improvement on his non-existent rights to his children.

Bang on.

LegacyUser

It would be madness not to talk about the future. While he may not feel the need to get married now. you need to find out if he means "no marriage ever" or just for the moment. I am afraid kids have to be discussed too. if you dont know if he want kids or not you really are chancing your arm for the future.
This is something my husband and myself talked about early in the relationship as i dont want children and didnt want to waste a couple of years and the pain of breaking up over it in the future.
you need to talk about both these issues now.

If you dont feel comfortable talking to your partner about both these things you are with the wrong man. He should not dismiss your wishes/views opinions of your Future. this is the person you will hopefully spend the rest of your life with and you should be able to talk about anything.

jim o doom

b3t4 wrote: »

I really don't see how discussing marriage after 2yrs is too soon. My partner and I discussed marriage and kids in the first few months. I'm a good few years younger than the OP as well.

For me, a relationship is a verbal agreement that you will stay with the other person. Marriage is a legal statement to that verbal agreement.

Legally marriage is more solid than a verbal agreement. Also, from what I am aware, there is no such thing as a common law husband/wife in Ireland. Should anything happen to either of ye it'd be a legal nightmare. Add kids to that question and the situation is even worse.

I find the idea that marriage is tied to religion to be pretty old fashioned.

You've doubts about this relationship and I don't blame you. You're gut is telling you something and I don't think you like what's it telling you.

A.

In relation to marrying in case anything happened to one of you (especially with kids), does a will stand for nothing in this day and age?
I am not bashing you here, I'm getting married in a few months, but I am making a will regardless & that would stand whether or not I was married to my other half.
As far as a "verbal agreement" & "contract" - if two people are in love with each other, do they really need a written contract to make them stay together? And in fairness, with divorce as it is, the contract can be broken and has been many many times.
Reducing a relationship with someone you are in love with to the level of contract in law seems heartless & paranoid.. also she could just be having unfounded or paranoid fears early in a relationship - If my fiancee went by those rule we would be broken up now instead of getting married next june, because I said hell no to marriage for 5 years. People change & two years in a relationship isn't that long - especially when men (& women too but more us chaps in my experience) can take a long time to adjust to an idea & be immature about it.

Also the fact that marriage is tied to religion is hardly surprising. Every married person in my family has had a traditional one (just civil for me, I ain't in to voodoo) - and the only civil ceremony I've been to was my friends - on that basis I reckon religion is still quite strongly tied to marriage - a lot of girls dream of "walking the isle" right? nearly every motion picture depiction of marriage involves a member of some sort of religion doing the vows - I understand marriage these days is a lot wider & am doing it civil myself as I have already stated - but regarding marrige and religion as miles apart these days is wrong, regardless of how old fashioned it seems - especially in Ireland, a country so stuck in its way's a serious kick in the bum won't move it.

Over all I reckon the OP is worrying too much - calm down, let things take their course for a bit and see how it goes, you're in your thirties, but god your still young yet!!

Nevyn

She is and she isn't, at 28 a woman is at the peak of her fertility by the time she is 38 it has dropped by 50%.

Is it that he obejcts to getting married or to a big wedding ?

seamus

jim o doom wrote: »

In relation to marrying in case anything happened to one of you (especially with kids), does a will stand for nothing in this day and age?
I am not bashing you here, I'm getting married in a few months, but I am making a will regardless & that would stand whether or not I was married to my other half.

Wills can be challenged by family. Blood is thicker than paper. Well not really, but I thought that would sound good.

If you're not married, yes you can write a will, and all things being good and equal, everyone will respect your wishes. However, grief does odd things to people and suddenly that parent who was mad about your partner, is fighting tooth and nail to take your share of the house from your partner and put it into trust for your kids.
If you're married, a will leaving everything to your partner is pretty much airtight.

Some good stuff here

http://www.binchylaw.ie/display.asp?pg=113


It is quite astonishing that a man and woman may live together for 20 years, have children, fulfil the traditional role of husband and wife and have no rights akin to married couples," said David Bergin, a family law solicitor with O'Connor Bergin in Dublin.

"If the relationship ends,the financially dependent member of the partnership may find himself or herself without rights to the property in which the couple have lived for years, with no entitlement to financial support or a pension."

and

No matter how long a nonmarital couple lived together, neither has any automatic right to inherit part of the estate of the other on death.

seahorse

Personally I would leave him if I were you OP. He has made it abundantly clear that he'll never be prepared to give you the level of commitment you want, so what's the point wasting the years of your life hanging around for something you know is never going to arrive?

ChocolateSauce

I see marriage as saying "We're not secure enough in our relationship to plan for the long term without having to legally affirm it and lock ourselves in." If you both feel secure, marriage isn't needed and can be viewed with cynicism.

Don't listen to anyone who says you should leave him. Marriage is an artificial institution, but true commitment comes from within. By refusing to marry you he is in fact saying he has so much confidence in your relationship that he doesn't need to lock you in.

Macha

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

I see marriage as saying "We're not secure enough in our relationship to plan for the long term without having to legally affirm it and lock ourselves in." If you both feel secure, marriage isn't needed and can be viewed with cynicism.

Don't listen to anyone who says you should leave him. Marriage is an artificial institution, but true commitment comes from within. By refusing to marry you he is in fact saying he has so much confidence in your relationship that he doesn't need to lock you in.

And what about the legal and fiscal implications? A civil marriage does not have to be a big hoo-haa. It can just be an afternoon down at the registrar's (sp?)office.

trio

I see marriage as saying "We're not secure enough in our relationship to plan for the long term without having to legally affirm it and lock ourselves in." If you both feel secure, marriage isn't needed and can be viewed with cynicism.

Don't listen to anyone who says you should leave him. Marriage is an artificial institution, but true commitment comes from within. By refusing to marry you he is in fact saying he has so much confidence in your relationship that he doesn't need to lock you in.

Y'see, I actually see it the exact opposite way.

I see marriage as saying "I am so loyal and serious and committed to you that if I died tomorrow I'd want to be sure you got every single thing you shared with me in life and that nobody else could get a look in."

So you could argue that by refusing to marry you he is in fact saying that he loves you, just not enough to elevate you legally higher than the rest of his family, who could take his share of the house from under you if he died tomorrow.

I agree that true commitment comes from within, but what's within doesn't protect you if something terrible should happen. I've heard stories of people being in car crashes and unconscious and the doctor giving the consent form to the bloody parents to sign rather than the long term partner. That'd be terrible, after sharing the same life for a decade - to have no legal power when your partner needs you the most. To just stand there watching his family make all the decisions.

To get back on topic, I think that the OP has a very real problem. We haven't been given enough detail but it's either:

a) boyfriend is appalled with the trappings of a wedding day and the money spent/ relegious hypocrisy etc. etc. In this case, suggesting a civil ceremony with only a handful of closest people and lunch in a restaurant might be an idea. He might be OK with that, once she explained how much it means to her. Only thing is the OP has said she's been dreaming about her wedding day all her life - she has to decide if it's a marriage she wants, or a "traditional wedding day + marriage". If it's the latter, then she should probably find someone else as it doesn't sound like he'd be happy doing that at all. And why should HE go through a day like that just for HER?

b) boyfriend loathes the very institution of marriage, and it doesn't matter if it was just the two of them getting hitched in tracksuits in the middle of a field. Then she should also find somebody else. You're not as well matched as you think you are, frankly.

stovelid

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

I see marriage as saying "We're not secure enough in our relationship to plan for the long term without having to legally affirm it and lock ourselves in." If you both feel secure, marriage isn't needed and can be viewed with cynicism. Don't listen to anyone who says you should leave him. Marriage is an artificial institution, but true commitment comes from within. By refusing to marry you he is in fact saying he has so much confidence in your relationship that he doesn't need to lock you in.

As a person who locked in my wife two years ago, could you use your considerable powers of omniscience to tell me how I can bypass this artificial institution we trapped ourselves in and find true commitment?

JackieO

Sleepy wrote: »

Also, you're only together for two years. My partner's due our first child together next week and it'd still be a few years before I'd even consider a wedding as I've always said I'd never marry someone until we'd been together for at least 5 years...

Sleepy - I find it quite astounding that you would consider having a child with someone before you would even consider marrying them??

What logic is that based on?

barbiegirl

After 2 years and in your 30's it is ok to broach the subjects of kids and marriage. As soon as me and my oh decided we were serious about each other and what we had was special, we discussed it. At the time we agreed kids were a defo in the future but marriage wasn't a deal breaker, as he wasn't into it, but we agreed we were 100% committed and as far as possible together for good.
Then when last year the subject of kids came up again, as we had hit the point we had said we'd discuss it, we actually decided to get married first. Unlike many people here, we went for a religious ceremony, but did it our way, very relaxed in Italy. We both loved it and neither of us were stressed, infact we totally had a ball. Now we're trying for kids.
Do I feel that he is more committed now and that our relationship has moved on a step .... Yes.
OP if after 2 years you cannot talk openly aboit your hopes and fears for the future, then never mind marriage, perhaps he isn't the right guy full stop. Never settle for 2nd best no matter what age you are, and the best should always include full and open communication. Whatever the good or bad points of marriage, communication is only good.

Nevyn

Unhelpful and off-topic posting will get you banned from this forum.
Do take time to read the charter which contains the rules and abide by them.
Have a nice day.
Thaedydal

MagicMarker

GFforever wrote: »

I on the other hand can't wait to get married, have always dreamed of my wedding day

Sounds to me like you want a wedding day, not a marriage. If i were your OH, i'd run a mile tbh.

He's already told you he doesn't want to get married, either you can live with that, or you can find someone else to be the groom. The latter will only highlight the fact that you only want a wedding day, not an actually marriage, because if you cared for your BF, you wouldn't care about the wedding day, you'd just be happy that you're together.

Silverfish

MagicMarker wrote: »

Sounds to me like you want a wedding day, not a marriage. If i were your OH, i'd run a mile tbh.

He's already told you he doesn't want to get married, either you can live with that, or you can find someone else to be the groom. The latter will only highlight the fact that you only want a wedding day, not an actually marriage, because if you cared for your BF, you wouldn't care about the wedding day, you'd just be happy that you're together.

That can go both ways too, if he's happy with her, then why not even concede to the idea of someday getting married?

OP, it sounds like you both want different things.
If he's outright not willing to marry you, ever, and you really, really want to get married, then I'd be questioning whether you should be together at all, as this will just fester and get worse.

In my experience, a lot of people are dead set against marriage - til they meet the right person.

A very good friend of mine walked away on an 7 year relationship because she wanted to get engaged, and he hated the idea of marriage and always had.

2 years later he was married to someone else.

stovelid

Silverfish wrote: »

In my experience, a lot of people are dead set against marriage - til they meet the right person.
.

I have to say I've found this to be the case with myself and friends. I personally am not zealously pro-marriage, but I'm not sure how really different a life-long partner is to being a wife or husband. One partner not wanting kids (and the other wanting them) would be a much bigger issue.

Also an age thing though, and I think 30 is still young enough to cool the jets.

Long-term relationships are about compromise and I think some people just think: I love this person, the union can be dissolved if needed, and there are undoubted practical benefits.

Still hate the whole, materialist, Wedding Day thing though.

Silverfish wrote: »

A very good friend of mine walked away on an 7 year relationship because she wanted to get engaged, and he hated the idea of marriage and always had.

2 years later he was married to someone else.

Not sure if your mate had kids, but I found that, with a lot of guys I know, (and me) kids were an important factor in getting married, due to the guardianship and inheritance issues already mentioned in the thread.

Silverfish

No, he was childless with both women.

He stayed with the first for 7 years and was anti-marriage all the way, leading to their breakup.

Met the second one and was engaged within the year.

LegacyUser

There are plenty of good reasons for talking frankly about how both of you see things panning out over the next few years. Some people have said 30 is still young - but that depends.

If the boyfriend's position is yes, might be interested in marriage and kids in another couple of years - all well and good. Still plenty of time to get married and pregnant. But here's something that the fellas seem less likely to consider - how many kids? Say they wait a couple of years and then have a first baby at 33 or 34. If you want your child to have siblings, then you're already over 35 for the second, and many people would prefer a longer gap for financial, work or simply energy reasons. But 35 is the age when certain risks start to increase (Down syndrome) and general fertility to decrease. Men and women need to think seriously about the kind of family life they have in mind.

And then there's the case if he's already definite he wants neither marriage nor children, or still needs to think about it or worse still, strings her along for another year or two and ends up deciding no, never. Even if she left him now and met someone else within a year, according to people here it would be mad to think about marriage before two years, so then she's at least 33 again, tries for a first baby could be 35, again the sibling question...

I am not saying the OP should leave if her boyfriend won't agree to the whole marriage and kids deal - depending on their relationship, maybe she will be the one to compromise, who knows. But it sounds like the relationship in her head is predicated on the standard template of this all happening, sooner or later - so she'd better find out if this is in reality the relationship she's actually in!

EamonnKeane

Thaedydal wrote: »

She is and she isn't, at 28 a woman is at the peak of her fertility by the time she is 38 it has dropped by 50%.

Is it that he obejcts to getting married or to a big wedding ?

The peak is more like 21-22, I'm sorry to say.

deisemum

Silverfish wrote: »

In my experience, a lot of people are dead set against marriage - til they meet the right person.

A very good friend of mine walked away on an 7 year relationship because she wanted to get engaged, and he hated the idea of marriage and always had.

2 years later he was married to someone else.

Yep I too know a few people who were against marriage but then met the right person for them and did a complete turnaround.

Some had been in long relationships but met and married someone else in a fairly short time.

Hubby and I got engaged 5 months after meeting on a blind date.

LegacyUser

I can only get to the internet at night so this is my first time checking back. Thanks for all the replies. Some of you wondered if the wedding was more important than the marriage for me. I know I said I've been dreaming of my wedding for years, but at this stage, I'd be happy to accept a small/civil celebration, I'd compromise to just know that he wanted to marry me. And yes it does seem as if he is dead against marriage altogether not just a wedding day. He throws all the cliches out,it's just a piece of paper, we're still the same couple etc. and I agree with him in ways but still.....I want to be married eventually! He does say he wants kids but not now and doesn't really imply when...

GFforever

GFforever wrote:

He does say he wants kids but not now and doesn't really imply when...

Considering how important this seems to be to you, I don't think sitting around waiting for him to imply answers is the way forward.
Sit down and have a proper and very frank discussion about it and make sure he knows how important it is to you and what your mutual plans can be for the future
If you've already done so then perhaps you need to do it again if it isn't registering with him that it's a major issue

trio

Sounds like you're at two completely different stages in your lives.

You sound like the average woman in her thirties, who knows what she wants and is tired of faffing around.

He sounds like he wants to just be a boyfriend with no encumberances and is in no way ready for any in-depth discussions about changing that state.

At the moment you sound like you're looking for some kind of a framework, even if it's along the lines of "In 5 years I'll be ready to have kids". But bear in mind that such pronouncements are subject to change. He doesn't have a crystal ball. He's 33 and he has no interest in changing the status quo. At 37 he may still feel much like 33, frankly. Meanwhile, you'll be 35 and freaking out about your diminishing fertility.

And he may also eventually say the same thing about a small civil ceremony - though it doesn't sound like it, as he's against the whole concept. And even if he did say he'd go through with it in a few years - he could turn around at the end of that time when you start to hint about an engagement and he could throw all those old arguments back at you again.

What I'm saying is that you don't know if he'll ever be ready for either of the things you want. It sounds harsh, but if you were both in your early twenties I'd say hang around - he's still a young man and may change his mind, and you have tons of time. But he's 33. He knows his own mind by now. And so do you. And you can hang around for the next 6-7 years waiting for something to change but you're taking a BIG risk that you may end up with neither of the things you want so badly.

Incidentally, are you living together? Because it seems that it's harder to persuade a lot of guys to marry if they're already living as man and wife with someone. They just don't see the point at all.