The Anti's

tiny-nioclas

I've been reading alot about these types of fools in england lately and it seems the anti hunting crowd are getting bigger and more violent, im just wondering do they have any major movement here in Ireland and what are peoples experiences with them? The country people in England believe its a very countryside folk vs city folk situation and its just an assault on their culture and traditions and that city people are gone a bit too soft for the country lifestyle and harsh realities? I personally think that most of the the Anti's are a bunch of punk kids who really do not understand conservation and want to be involved in something sort anti-conformist or radical just for the sake of it?

stevoman

tiny-nioclas wrote: »

I've been reading alot about these types of fools in england lately and it seems the anti hunting crowd are getting bigger and more violent, im just wondering do they have any major movement here in Ireland and what are peoples experiences with them? The country people in England believe its a very countryside folk vs city folk situation and its just an assault on their culture and traditions and that city people are gone a bit too soft for the country lifestyle and harsh realities? I personally think that most of the the Anti's are a bunch of punk kids who really do not understand conservation and want to be involved in something sort anti-conformist or radical just for the sake of it?

there is one group here in Ireland i forget their name but thats exactly what they are. mostly students who want to save something and carry a placard and they dont really care what its about as long as they are being seen.

i find the ICABS here very underhanded and sly about how they deal with their issues and its either their way or the highway. Im going to paste on an article they have wrote about ferreting and the reasons they want it banned. I find it stupid and ridiculous. So how are you supposed to deal with a massive vermin rabbit population?

______________________________________________
ICABS urges ban on horrific ferreting
25 July 2008
ICABS has renewed its call for ferretting to be banned after a newspaper article highlighted the appalling cruelty of the activity. A profile of a ferretting enthusiast published in a midlands newspaper told of how ferrets are used to blind rabbits by biting into their eyes.

ICABS has called on the Department of Agriculture to act urgently to end the horrendous practice. Ferreting involves sending a ferret down a burrow to trap rabbits. The rabbits are either chased out of the hole and into nets or viciously gripped in place by the ferret while a hunter digs away the earth from above them.

The following is a ferreter's first-hand description of the activity published in the Westmeath Topic of March 13th, 2008.

"On a typical day I'd get up at six in the morning while it's still dark. People contact me, often lads with greyhounds. These lads would be looking for rabbits...I bring my nets, cages, and of course my ferret finder. It's a collar you put on the ferret before he's sent underground. It beeps like a metal detector, so you know where he is...It's handier, because he 'pooches' the rabbit ('It's a certain kind of cul-de-sac where the rabbit goes up into to hide, where the ferret tries to tear at him to make him move). If he doesn't move the rabbit you have to use a barn spade (which is called a ferreting bar) to dig him out...You have two different types of hunting ferret; you have the 'eye' ferret and you have the 'brain' ferret. An eye ferret in a hole only goes for the rabbit's eye - he blinds him. The 'brain' ferret, he'll bite straight onto the head between the ears."

"Like I said, most of the rabbits go into the nets. The fellas who called me out would often take them off me. They sometimes use them for teasing the greyhound in a thing called a 'rolling cage' which is a small round cage they put the rabbit in to tease the dog before a race."


Cruel ferreting activities leave rabbits like this one injured, and sometimes blinded, after vicious underground attacks. (Photo: Mike Rendle)


It is highly questionable that greyhound men suddenly have mercy on the traumatised, and probably injured, rabbit and release it back to the wild. It is much more likely that the rabbit is let out of the cage and used a live lure for the greyhounds.

This highly illegal act of "blooding" is thought to be commonplace in the industry. Unscrupulous owners and breeders believe that letting greyhounds tear a rabbit asunder will keep them keen for running on the track or up a coursing field.

Greyhound scene commentator, John Martin, is on record as saying that "greyhound racing would not continue to exist without blooding [and] it follows that, with a constant greyhound population of close on 30,000, blooding must be widespread."

Writing in the Irish Independent of January 12th, 1994, Mr Martin added: "Do not expect an admission of that from Bord na gCon, the country's semi-state greyhound racing authority. To concede the point would be to accept that they are the custodians of a sport whose very existence is based on blooding."

In our appeal to the Department of Agriculture, ICABS stressed both the cruelty of ferreting and its links to the illegal act of blooding.

"We believe that the new animal welfare legislation should take into account that this activity is ongoing, and the banning of ferreting, which of itself is a cruel activity, would assist in tackling this ongoing cruelty. Furthermore, given that this industry is enshrined in legislation (Greyhound Industry Act) and grant-aided by the taxpayer, we believe it should be scrutinised in depth in terms of the welfare of greyhounds as there are ongoing cruel practices and indeed illegal practices engaged in by greyhound owners and trainers with regard to the use of drugs and indeed the treatment of greyhounds past their racing best."
______________________________________________

Sika_Stalker

do you remember the irish coursing championship in clonmel this year
ICABS said in an artical that they were going to have 3000 protestors on the final day of the meet and wouldnt you know it about 16 people turned up, some even dressed up as rabbits. a bit of a farce if you ask me

stevoman

Sika_Stalker wrote: »

16 people turned up, some even dressed up as rabbits. a bit of a farce if you ask me

somewhon should have let the lurchers loose on them! :pac:

tiny-nioclas

Muppets! I read before that they assaulted a few elderly people carp and coarse fishing in a lake , pushed them into the water,bust up their fishing tackle and bust up their cars! All for catching and releasing a minging carp

fish slapped

Was at a doo one night and as I ordered my main course the lady (?) beside me commented about the lamb (or something) I ordered, so the discussion started. When she found out that I fished and shot she asked do I eat what I shoot? to which I replied yes as much as I can (NO, never tasted fox, well not to my knowlege), her next question was have I got children? to which I replied yes 3, but I could never eat a whole one. She then turned her back to me for the rest of the night AND ORDERED A STEAK!!! A***oles the lot of them IMO.

Vegeta

While I don't agree with the viewpoint taken by the anti groups I don't let them bother me. Threads like this while necessary from time to time, to just have a good old rant, make them appear more powerful than they are tbh.

I believe they are in a minority and don't let them effect my day to day hunting activities.

Keep it legal and above board and should you have no real worries.

Sika_Stalker

veg
my point being they claim 3000 and 16 turn up:rolleyes:

tiny-nioclas

I just wanted to know do they have any real influence like they did in england and what was peoples experience with them!

Grizzly 45

And yourself,and your victory is assured.Know only yourself,and not your enemy,and victory is uncertain.Know neither yourself and your enemy,and defeat is certain.
Sun Tzu.The Art of War. 500 BC

While agreeing in principle with most statements made here on the Antis.I would still say it is in our intrests to keep a VERY close eye on them here.
While the Irish Council Against Bloodsports[ICABS] might be full of letter writing old dears,and the more hip"twin set& pearls "brigade.The more "extremist" Irish crowd started out there.Make no mistake the Irish crowd have been in contact wit the more "head case" elements both in the UK,EU and US.Some known faces were seen at a "training camp"in Kent run by a convicted animal rights extremist two years ago.
From the sound of the camp it didnt have very much to do with "peaceful protest "either.
Fortuneatly the groups are quite small here,and interchange themselves or wear many hats under the guise of animal rights. Example Dublin Hunt Sabs,aka Greyhound Action Network,aka Alliance For Animal Rights,aka various other animal rights groups.All have one or two "spokespersons"
Estimated "hardcore" members 50 to 60. Extremists who will do effective "sabbing actions" which have sofar amounted to more nusiance than effective destruction.
EG phoning in a bomb threat and glueing the locks of NARGC offices,which occured FUNNILLY ENOUGH when a suspected bomb maker,arms supplier of the ALF was giving a lecture in Dublin:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:.To ripping up signs of directions to hunt balls or making noisey demos outside hotels,when hunt associations were going to disvcuss the threats to fieldsports.
In short they havent the Balls to do anything more than letter write or yell and scream outside their current pet hate,or glue locks or daub paint on fur shops,or try and disrupt the odd carted deer /fox hunt.If they can get enough people together that is.
Around now should be circuses and cub hunting that has their goat.This is not to say that they couldnt get some" Head "over from the UK to do a "spectacular"over here.But I think they know the backlash could be very detrimental to them here.
Doesnt mean that the younger generation wont be more aggressive.The National Animal Rights Network,is headed up by a 19/21 year old female.You should read her comments about hunters and their place in society.:eek:.[Google NARA home page Ireland]. Watch this space.
As the song goes"You aint seen nothing yet!"

fathersymes

ICABS have a video on youtube talking about the cruelty of mink hunting, as far as I know they are the same people who have released mink from farms into the wild, of course the idiots have no understanding of the impact of mink on the ecosystem.

cavan shooter

The ICABS etc, will always be about, I am strongly of the opinion that it will be the Green party that will do more damage than the ICABS etc.

Politicians (FF,FG,Lab) will get into bed with anyone to stay in power or to get into power and we my friends are an easy target. :mad:

Sparks

While I understand and to a large extent share the sentiments - lads, please remember that the libel laws in Ireland aren't fair and truth is, oddly enough, not always a defence against libel. Not saying anyone's crossed the line yet, but we're certainly teetering on it right at the moment. And frankly, if you post something here that gets the forum shut down from a libel suit by those you're complaining about, you'll have done them a favour and us a disservice.

Trojan911

I couldn't care less what people think of me if I they discover I am a hunter.

I drink in a pub that is pro fishing & hunting, my friends are pro fishing & hunting & I don't get into debates or heated arguments with those who are anti fishing or hunting.

They mean absolutely nothing to me so I don't let it get to me.

I would have no problem talking/discussing if a person would be interested in knowing why I do it if they were for genuine reasons.

Each to their own, but don't cram any anti sentiments in my face as I am just not interested, is my message to them.

fathersymes

keep your friends close and your enemies closer!

Grizzly 45

Indeed Sparks good advice.However ,speakin on my own behalf.Everything I mentioned is documented and or public knowledge.Seeing that the antis published it and or the newspapers of Ireland published it themselves.

Later.I see on the NARAwebsite,they are veryupset that PETA is giving a lecture in UCD next week.Laura Broxton,spokesperson of NARA,claims they are sexist,not intrested in animal rights and are basically a bunch of corporate bloodsukers,and will only cause to muddy the animal rights issues here in Ireland, etc. She is calling for a boycott of the PETA debate.
Nice to see dissent and chaos in the enemies camp:D:D

Sparks

Er, Grizzly - NARA? The National Anglers Representative Association? Aren't they the NARGC of the angling world?

Grizzly 45

National Animal Rights Association.New "kids" [literally]:rolleyes: on the block.

meathstevie

Looking at their website it looks to me like any hunter in Ireland who hasn't been convicted of any Wildlife Acts related offences ( unfortunatly lads there are some who haven't got a clean bill of health ) nearly has sufficient grounds to have their website closed down or even take a libel action.

I might be skating on thin ice here and if I am, for the record, I posted this. Sparks if you deem it to be too thin a sheet of ice please delete. Anyway..here goes :


In one sweep law abiding hunters are being accused of :

- consistently shooting and trapping animals out of season or in breech of
Wildlife Act protection status.
Broadly interpreted you could even include farm animals in this statement
- using illegal hunting methods

At the same time the remarks imply that every Garda Super is an incompetent fool for granting firearms licences to psychopaths.

Come on folks, how low can one's credibility drop ?

Grizzly, the point you were making about that NARA and PETA crowds having a go at eachother isn't that strange at all realy. I remember an incident years ago at a meeting in university where a fistfight broke out between two groups I can only describe as being on the far fringe of the luny left. Two lads were carted of to hospital for stiches and a bit of nose correction. The issue that sparked of the melee was about who was Stalinist and who was Maoist.

dresden8

meathstevie wrote: »

Grizzly, the point you were making about that NARA and PETA crowds having a go at eachother isn't that strange at all realy. I remember an incident years ago at a meeting in university where a fistfight broke out between two groups I can only describe as being on the far fringe of the luny left. Two lads were carted of to hospital for stiches and a bit of nose correction. The issue that sparked of the melee was about who was Stalinist and who was Maoist.

First item on the agenda is always "the split".

Sparks

Good thing that sort of thing never happens to us, eh dresden?

dresden8

Heaven forbid, you Maoist lapdog!

Sparks

I'm not maoist, I towel off fully after my morning shower thankyouverymuch!

Grizzly 45

True Sparks,but have the reps of shooting organisations or fieldsports ever reverted to wigs on the green to settle differences of opinion?:D

Trouble MS with going after such a non entity group like NARA,is
[1] they have nothing worth taking,and they get free legal aid,we have to hoof the bill. [2] They just restart a new group with another crap website [3] they get free publicity for their cause
[4]If we lose it in a court battle,we look like the Mc Donalds group after they took on PETA.[like a bunch Ronald Mac Donalds :rolleyes:]
So the best thing IMO is leave this bunch of nutters alone,give them enough rope,they will hang themselves.Seeing that they are busy bothering french resturants,circuses and fur shops,and the odd race course.Or IOW anything reachable by student buss pass,or on foot in Dublin.:rolleyes:
After all anyone advocating that hunters,etc are not fit to be in society etc,is a brilliant recruiting SGT for our side,and shows the looney tunes side of the up and coming animal libbers /ARTs

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

True Sparks,but have the reps of shooting organisations or fieldsports ever reverted to wigs on the green to settle differences of opinion?:D

No, we resort to libel suits, threatening each other's funding, and nursing grudges for longer than most NARA members have been alive for. Much better...

Grizzly 45

Sounds more like everyone wants to be the big cheif,and do anything to get the competition knocked out.I'm sure the antis would try and do the same,if they could afford it,and had anything worth sueing for.

whitser

tiny-nioclas wrote: »

I just wanted to know do they have any real influence like they did in england and what was peoples experience with them!

antis have no influence in england. the ban in england was basically a class war. labour getting one back on the upper class. hunting in england was always seen as a sport of the toffs. but here every type of person hunts. the antis try to portray us all as snobs. but fact is all the lads i hunt with are from working class, and proud of it, back rounds.

pullandbang

We should all join PETA................


People Eating Tasty Animals:D

tiny-nioclas

antis have no influence in england. the ban in england was basically a class war. labour getting one back on the upper class. hunting in england was always seen as a sport of the toffs. but here every type of person hunts. the antis try to portray us all as snobs. but fact is all the lads i hunt with are from working class, and proud of it, back rounds.

I have to admit ive been told different by shooters in england and scotland,sadly! PETA seem to be getting bigger and getting more media too,we should all be up to date to as why we do what we do and be proud we do it.

We should all join PETA................


People Eating Tasty Animals

I have that on a tee shirt its great

whitser

the antis are a true case of empty vessells making most noise. in england and scotland the antis only got backing because they mp's saw banning hunting with hounds as a way of hitting the snobs. the antis wont get the same backing for game shooting,even though they want it. sure game shooting is worth millions to scotlands economy.

stevoman

In fact the MP who spearheaded the ban on foxhunting in England was a former member of the animal liberation front.

cavan shooter

I see the ICABS have jumped on the tail docking band wagon looking for it to be included in the new Animal Welfare Bill.

Grizzly 45

the antis wont get the same backing for game shooting,even though they want it. sure game shooting is worth millions to scotlands economy.

Dont be so sure on that one either!Check out the hunt sabetours accociation UK,and leauge against cruel sportswebsites.There is a start of the next campains against shooting!Paticulary driven pheasents,game rearing,and grouse shooting....Asfar as I am concerned we are in the firing line on this too people.Paradoxially,once the fox hunting ban came in in the UK.The membership of the anti organisations started to drop off,as everyone who was emotiveally involved in banning foxhunting,thought it was now banned and left the organisations.The head cases are hanging on and going for shooting sports next.

whitser

i know the antis want game shooting banned. as soon as the ban came in on hunting with dogs they were on about game shooting next. but i dont think they'll get the same backing from mp's as they did with the hunting with dogs bill.

tiny-nioclas

In the local paper we have here every fortnight theres a letter in sent to the editor from anti's,its a heap of drivel everytime and im considering replying to them next week, their last letter was from some antis in england saying how terrible red legged partridge were reared in england, they said the conditions they were reared in were worst than the worst off battery hens! Its no good getting into a shouting match with them but a nice educated reply might be better?

Sparks

The thing that always bugs me about those letters is this - why aren't we writing them?
We complain all the time when the ICABS lot writes in about how it's awful that foxes are shot, but unless it's in response to something, we never write in complaining about how it's awful that shooting sports are underfunded and underrecognised, or that hunting is treated badly in the media or whatever.
'Tis easy to dismiss the ICABS letter writing as the daft work of a few eejits, and most of it is, but the point isn't that it's daft - it's that it's there and it's being published because noone else is giving the newspapers stuff to print. If we're so much better, why aren't we writing letters to all the local papers every single week of the year?

tiny-nioclas

True, even an e mail to your local papers, just mention all the good stuff shooters/hunters do for conservation/farmers/economy etc, and that we wont be apologetic for what we do?

Vegeta

tiny-nioclas wrote: »

but a nice educated reply might be better?

You should do this and to be honest I should do the same myself more often

tiny-nioclas

Yeah im going to do some research about the breeding of red legged partridge and be very "matter of fact" about the reply i give them, il e mail them this evening.

Grizzly 45

Ok,let me just give you my breakdown on how these people work,after keeping them under OBS,for the last 20 years or so.

1] Mass mail,email or fax ALL papers,journals,magazines or parish newsletter if you think they will publish your letter. I have seen the same letter appear in a half dozen papers in the same week,that had been edited or published to suit the papers editorial policy.

2] Be consistent on one or two points.Pick somthing that shows the plight of your current pet issue.IE recently ICABS are now calling on farmers "the true gaurdians of the countryside" to stop hare netting for coursing.!! Thats a right laugh,as a year ago they were belittling farmers as not caring anything about wildlife,and accusing them of all sorts of horrific things! So I guess it helps to be as two faced as possible.

Anyway,make your letter emotive as possible,and make sure you drive home that it is all the "animal abusers " fault.
Be seasonal.Every year a certain gentleman from Callan gets upset about Xmas cards with foxhunting scenes.In Spring,it is the massacre of hares,Summer he usually shuts up,or has a go at circuses,or goes off on political discourses,autumn ,back to Foxhunting,Tourist shooting,etc etc.

3] Pick a firearms tragedy,and blame lax gun laws,or scare the wits out of your reraders in claiming there are simply millions of unliscensed firearms about,and every hunter/gunowner out there is a potential nutcase waiting for a chance to blast the nearest Mac Donalds to bits!!!

4] Bother a minister,company or anyone else who dares to use animals in their adverts.ICABS letter writing campains have targeted,Vodaphone,Paddy Power,Travel companies ,Lynx deo spray.All because they dared to mention bull fighting.Bord Failte,cos they usedto have a few fox hunt pics on their brochures. I feel sorry for poor old John Gormley.Spare a thought for that mans IN tray every morning.ICABS have him now as their elected spokesman,and have his contact details for every little slight to the animals.I wonder how he feels now about party faithfuls with agendas??:D:D

So just follow these points in reverse to the above.And we are grauenteed at least one proactive letter a month in each paper.HOWEVER the big sucess secret is;it must be done consistently,and massively to be taken seriously.Us gunowners did a brilliant job with this last year,[from an idea here on Boards.ie /shooting I'm gladb to say].It was the grassroots campain,to email,write,visit and fax all ministers on the firearms legislation changes.Many ministers/TDs expressed surprise at the amount of corrospondence thy got on this issue.So what would it be like if we did the same to newspapers?? The power to do is in front of all of us who read this.The Internet & email are marvellous devices.:D

BornToKill

It's maybe not 100% on topic but it is funny: a story today from Australia about a woman who was trapped by a pig but insists it be captured alive since she's a veggie!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7632861.stm

Grizzly 45

Heehee heee.Thats funny!!!!:D:D:D...Maybe she mistook the pig for her husband/boyfriend????

whitser

Sparks wrote: »

The thing that always bugs me about those letters is this - why aren't we writing them?
We complain all the time when the ICABS lot writes in about how it's awful that foxes are shot, but unless it's in response to something, we never write in complaining about how it's awful that shooting sports are underfunded and underrecognised, or that hunting is treated badly in the media or whatever.
'Tis easy to dismiss the ICABS letter writing as the daft work of a few eejits, and most of it is, but the point isn't that it's daft - it's that it's there and it's being published because noone else is giving the newspapers stuff to print. If we're so much better, why aren't we writing letters to all the local papers every single week of the year?

i've had a few letters published in the daily mail and in the metro paper. i've sent a few letters to the times and the indo but they were never published. im sure there are lots of lads writing into papers but the antis seem to have letters printed more often.

lightening

I lurk here every now and then, love gun dogs, love game food and love nature, you guys talk about it....

The antis are mentioned a lot, are you guys targeted a lot, are you confronted? I don't meant anecdotal stuff, but actually experiences you have had. I didn't think this was a big issue here or on mainland Europe. England is a much different country than here, lots lots more people. Some of you seem to be more interested in the antis than the hunting!

(I personally don't like animals in circuses, that's about as far as I would go.... I am sure a lot of you that use your animals for what they are supposed to do would agree)

It wasn't me!

lightening wrote: »

I lurk here every now and then, love gun dogs, love game food and love nature, you guys talk about it....

The antis are mentioned a lot, are you guys targeted a lot, are you confronted? I don't meant anecdotal stuff, but actually experiences you have had. I didn't think this was a big issue here or on mainland Europe. England is a much different country than here, lots lots more people. Some of you seem to be more interested in the antis than the hunting!

(I personally don't like animals in circuses, that's about as far as I would go.... I am sure a lot of you that use your animals for what they are supposed to do would agree)

Well, some while back, there was a lot of debate over fox-hunting across Boards (and it was in various newspaper and internet debates and polls at the time) and when I came out in defence of it, I received threatening phone calls from someone who read what I posted on Boards. It's something I think people get overly defensive about a lot of the time (Time spent shooting would be more fun), but when you get attacked like that for your opinion, I think it becomes considerably more understandable.

lightening

Oh right, fair enough. Not nice on a personal level for you. :mad:

(I got mistaken for someone who posted a map of surf spots, my car reg and a photo of another guy they thought was me was circulated and I was told my windscreen would be waxed and my tyres slashed. Told to my face!)

whitser

antis constantly attack the thing we love most. hunting dogs are a close second to my kids in my life. when someone trys to stop your way of life,pretending they dont exist wont help. best form of defence is offence. hunters need to be more pro active in the defence of their sport and heritage.

lightening

whitser wrote: »

antis constantly attack the thing we love most

You seem to be the most affected, you mention them in a lot of your posts. What has happened to you? ( I don't think anyone would question your affection for your dogs!)

whitser

on a personal level nothing. but i got wound up reading letters from the icabs in papers and mags. and the thing is when people who dont have a clue about hunting and think the countryside is like an episode of farthing wood they believe it. i've had proper stand up arguements with lads in work over hunting,they would be anti.

shaft666

Having lived and hunted/shot in the UK for the past 24 years I have some experience of the antis. We have 2 sorts here, the genuine anti bloodsport people and the ones generally seen as "rent a mob", who tend to follow any protests that could turn violent, eg miners strike, poll tax riots, anti road protests etc. The inside knowledge is these are proper organised groups who are actually subsidised (paid!) to turn up and cause disruption and generally have no allegiance to the cause they are fighting for, just the love of a good riot! :mad:

Paul

whitser

lightening wrote: »

You seem to be the most affected, you mention them in a lot of your posts. What has happened to you? ( I don't think anyone would question your affection for your dogs!)

didnt think i mentioned them alot, maybe i do. but i've heard some bad stories from lads. one fella had his trailer opened when he went into a shop,his hounds were let out loose on a main road, antis trying to get people sacked cos they support hunting stuff like that. these people should be tackled at every oppurtunity.