Leinster V Munster

[Jackass]

Well it's that time of year again! The Leinster / Munster derby game.

Should be an absolute cracker!! Both teams on good form, the only two unbeaten teams left in the competition and Munster topping the table with 3 from 3 and 2 bonus point wins and Leinster with 2 from 3 including a whopping bonus point win over Edinburgh and gritty draw with Cardiff.

The pro's of both teams this season is the continued progress of what might have been percieved as weaker aspects of their game in the past.

Munster have a free flowing attacking backline and are scoring trys from all over the park, and even without the 2 big players to come into the pack Leinster have done well upfront, turning over a lot of ball v Ospreys and there's a hardened edge to Leinster this season with staying in the tight game v Cardiff and coming away with a draw, and maybe should have stolen the win in the end, and did well to edge ahead of Ospreys, showing strong defence under sustained pressure and then being clinical to finish them from the boot before the final lapse in concentration at the end when it seemed to be job done, beofre giving away a bonus point, which they will need to address.

I'll leave the Munster details to the Munster fans as they will know more than me, but team news for Leinster is that Isa Nacewa is out with a suspected broken arm, however on the plus side is that the 2 new signings become available in the form of CJ Van Der Linde and Rocky Elsom.

My anticipated first 15 for Leinster:

1. Van Der Linde
2. Jackman
3. Wright
4. Cullen
5. O'Kelly
6. Elsom
7. Jennings
8. Heaslip

9. Whitaker
10. Contepomi
11. Kearney
12. O'Driscoll
13. Fitzgerald
14. Horgan
15. Dempsey

With Isa gone, I would prefer Contepomi at 10 for this one with Sexton to go on the bench. Centre partnership is strong and a big back 3 that imo will be solid to the Munster threat and also have a lot of power, pace and a big boot to do damage to the Munster cause.

Up front I think Leinster are strong and Van Der Linde adds a great platform to the set-piece and with Jackman & O'Kelly in superb form also and a welcome return for Cullen. I'm really looking forward to seeing Elsom mix it up with one of the finest back rows in European Rugby and would anticipate a great battle there.

As a Leinster fan, I have to admit I'm nervous about this one. Nacewa is a big loss, even though I didn't feel he did very well at 10, I think it would have suited to keep him in the first 15 in centre with O'Driscoll and keep Fitz out wide for this game and Contepomi at 10. (which I feel is where he should play going forward). Munster have looked awesome so far (I missed most of the game v Cardiff tonight, but see they got a bonus point along the way) and seem to be gunning for the domestic title this year.

It will be a very close game. I feel we can match them up front and will be a fine match out back, it may come down to a battle of discipline and of the boot, which is why I think for his tactical game it's essential Contepomi starts at 10.

It's gonna be a cracker, which I'm already really looking forward too, and I hope fortress RDS is still in tact afterwards.

Stev_o

I think both sides really need to raise their game Munster today werent very convincing and Leinster were lucky that they werent against a team with 2 decent centres. Im sure though that giving the occasion both sides will raise it and we can get some lovely rugby.

On another note can we please please PLEASE have a non confrontational thread lets try and not spout the usual BS mine's bigger then your's.

anonymous_joe

Was interesting to watch the Munster lads tonight.

I thought they looked infinitely more talented than the Blues, but really lacked the motivation to truly put them to the sword.

Certainly they looked strong in broken play, but their backs were looking a little bit off the pace.

Defensively, they held Cardiff quite well, even if Cardiff aren't a truly inspired attacking team, rather a decently organised one.

d-gal

will be a great game, should be some good battles, if quinlan and elsom start that should be a key contest.
With the current form of Mafi he should make life tough for BOD.
I reckon the game will be won in the backrow, quinlan/wallace/o'sullivan (my hopeful starters) vs elsom/heaslip/jennings. Munster have a bit more depth in the backrow with melck, ryan and ronan also options and a bit more unity. Elsom having never played before might struggle while jennings has yet to show a solid link with heaslip (the main man).
My verdict: Munster to suprise

d-gal

Oh and would reckon munster would start with this.

1. Horan
2. Flannnery
3. Hayes
4. DOC
5. POC
6. Quinlan
7. O'Sullivan
8. Wallace (options of changing around the backrow)
9. O'Leary
10. ROG
11. Dowling
12. Mafi
13. Tipoki
14. Howlett
15. Earls

Sabre0001

Going to be a tough game but should be exciting! Both teams with excellent backlines (and I hope d-gal is right with predicted lineup) and an epic confrontation up front...Hoping for Munster naturally but I think it will be a cracking game

CatFromHue

should be a good game alrigh
Looking forward to watching how the 2 center partnerships get on. thats if it is O driscoll and Fitzgerald against Tipoki and Mafi.
While Tipoki and Mafi are well able to put the tackles sometimes, i fell that as a unit they are prone to a few mistakes.
If fitzgera;d is to be a center, this should test his defensive ablities.

Scootay

I think it's more likely that Sexton will start at 10 with Felipe at 12. If things aren't working Sexton will come off, Felipe to 10 and Luke to 12 with whoever is on the bench taking the spot on the wing.

Really looking forward to this one and expecting a home win.

Inquitus

I think Munster will win this handy, I reckon the game comes too early in the season for Leinster, given CJ and Elsom have just arrived off the plane and Cullen has only one game under his belt, and Nacewa has crooked his arm.

I genuinely think that Leinster are a team to be reckoned with on the European stage this year however, and fancy them to go a long way, perhaps even all the way. Signing someone of CJ's quality to replace Ollie was essential, plus adding a world class backrow like Elsom, and Nacewa looks handy.

Sexton had one of his best games at 10 against Munster last year, but I think he's a weak link, and as a Munsterman would rather see him start at 10 than Contepomi.

I just think we have looked more convincing so far this season and come into this game slightly less undercooked, it would have been nice if this game was after the HC openers when both sides would be at full tilt!

Danger_Dave

Inquitus wrote: »

I just think we have looked more convincing so far this season and come into this game slightly less undercooked, it would have been nice if this game was after the HC openers when both sides would be at full tilt!

Yet Leinster have not lost a game being undercooked. The main reason being are defense, its absolutely immense at the moment and for Munster to break it down its going to be tough.

Im disappointed Earls wont be starting, just like id be disappointed if Sexton was not starting, don't get me wrong i think Nacewa is a great player . Sexton and Earls are two players who have the potential to be top irish players . However there not going to reach that potential warming up on the touch line for 70 minutes.

On the Fly half issue for leinster , It looks like Cheika has decided that Dr. phil is going to stay 12 for long periods of the season .

On the match, its going to come down to the breakdown and who wins it. God help me picking whos going to win in the prediction league.

P.S Dont forget the boards meet up for the game !

bleg

away victory.
pucciariello to start with buckley on the bench though. and ronan to start too.

toomevara

Stev_o wrote: »

On another note can we please please PLEASE have a non confrontational thread lets try and not spout the usual BS mine's bigger then your's.

Like to add my support to this, last time this happened I abandoned the boards rugby forum for 3 weeks..hope the mods adopt a complete zero tolerance policy...

Going to be an immense game between two teams who've hit the ground running at the start of the new season, can't wait....

remus808

Matchups: (possibly)

1:.. Horan.. V .. Van Der Linde
2:.. Flannery.. V .. Jackman
3:.. Hayes.. V .. Wright
4:.. O'Callaghan.. V .. O'Kelly
5:.. O'Connell.. V .. Cullen
6:.. Wallace.. V .. Jennings
7:.. Ronan.. V .. O'Brien
8:.. Melck.. V .. Heaslip
9:.. O'Leary.. V .. Whitaker
10:.. O'Gara.. V .. Sexton
11:.. Dowling.. V .. Fitzgerald
12:.. Tipoki.. V .. Contepomi
13:.. Mafi.. V .. O'Driscoll
14:.. Howlett.. V .. Horgan
15:.. Earls.. V .. Kearney

16:.. D.Fogarty.. V .. J.Fogarty
17:.. Buckley.. V .. Healy
18:.. O'Driscoll.. V .. Toner
19:.. Quinlan.. V .. Elsom
20:.. Stringer.. V .. Keane
21:.. Warwick.. V .. Dempsey
22:.. Murphy.. V .. O'Malley

(Think Leinster might even go with a 5-2 split on the bench with Keogh or Jowitt in, with Nacewa injured)

Will call it either way in each position when I get a chance.. Looks very even to me though

RuggieBear

i kinda agree with Inquitus. IMO Munster have looked far better and much more coherent (both when the first and second stringers have played) so far this season. Not sure if it is about being undercooked but Leinster are just not gelling properly.

Not sure how much to read into the performances but....

Leinster drew with Cardiff away having been 2nd best all game. Cardiff lose in Munster but gave a decent account of themselves.

Munster beat Edinburgh away but were holding on by the end of the match But Edinburgh at home are very tough. Leinster thrashed Edinburgh (in the end) at home... again looking quite poor at times.

Munster thrashed Dragons but Dragons are ****e.

Leinster beat what looks a very decent Ospreys team at home but last gasp tackling and big defensive effort required to do so...

Now admittedly this is my 2cents on the above matches and you can never really compare like with like as there are too many variables (Diferent players, teams playing home/away, certain team's style of play suit other teams and the opposite, etc). In fact it is probably a complete waste of time!:D

I think Munster are playing decent rugby and appear to be the team in form. On the other hand Leinster are playing at home and rarely do we get turned over there and we have already beaten the other form team (Ospreys) at home.

So i'm going for a Leinster win by a controversial last minute penalty.:D

MOD NOTE: PLEASE KEEP IT CIVIL AND ALL POSTS ARE TO BE REASONED AND VAGUELY ARTICULATE. ANY "LEINSTER/MUNSTER/PLAYER X IS ****E", ETC WILL MEET WITH A LONG LONG BAN.

remus808

karmabass wrote: »

1:.. Horan.. V .. Van Der Linde
VDL all day long, provided he settles in ok..
2:.. Flannery.. V .. Jackman
Flannery is playing good stuff at the moment, but Jackman is showing exactly why people championed him for the green jersey, has been ferocious in open play and totally solid in the lineouts.. MOTM last week in a match where the pack was dominated says it all
3:.. Hayes.. V .. Wright
Definitely Hayes.. suprisingly had a stormer in broken field last week (belying his age) in addition to his normal high-workrate and very solid scrumming.. Stan was one of Leinsters star players last year and has been solid so far but not quite hitting the heights, has been getting his arse handed to him in several scrums
4:.. O'Callaghan.. V .. O'Kelly
O'Kelly is seemingly in the form of his life at the moment, playing like someone 10 years his junior.. O'Callaghan has been fairly anonymous
5:.. O'Connell.. V .. Cullen
O'Connell really came back into form at the end of the last season, and he is really playing like a HEC winning captain at the moment.. Cullen is a class act but is coming back from injury so is unlikely to get the better of the in-form Limerickman
6:.. Wallace.. V .. Jennings
Have both of Ireland's 7's tipped for 6, intrestingly.. Both are not playing particularly great at the moment, although Jennings made a huge impact of the bench last week. Would still have Wally as I feel, form or not, that he's one of the world's best backrows of recent times.. Jennings cant match him for class
7:.. Ronan.. V .. O'Brien
Ronan had a great game last week and took his tries well, but I have to say what I'v seen of O'Brien has been really impressive.. hugely aggressive, good on the floor, pacy, and dangerous with ball in hand.. dosen't have the experience of Ronan just yet but has all the attributes [has been compared to McCaw recentley, interestingly enough]
8:.. Melck.. V .. Heaslip
Heaslip is a great player, but suffering a real dip in form lately.. has been anonymous several times in both green and blue jerseys.. Melck is unproven with Munster, but has looked very promising, and seems to be in a good run of form
9:.. O'Leary.. V .. Whitaker
Close call.. Whitaker is a more solid, rounded scrummie but lacks the elements of danger with ball in hand, pace and strength in the tackle that O'Leary is blessed with. While I don't rate his passing/distribution compared to Whitaker, I feel he's an exciting enough player to squeeze this one.. could make all the difference in ruining Sexton's day IMO
10:.. O'Gara.. V .. Sexton
Old stalwart versus young pretender.. At points last season this may have been a closer call [Sexton steering Leinster to victory in the RDS last April] but Sexton has not looked convincing, and with his place in the team very shaky, he faces an uphill struggle trying to do battle with one of the best 10's in the business in what will no doubt be a tight game
11:.. Dowling.. V .. Fitzgerald
There is alot said about Dowlings relative merits, and how much he has improved.. a very solid player, undeserving of much of the critcism directed at him: yes... A match for one of the form players in europe at the moment: no
12:.. Tipoki.. V .. Contepomi
As shown in the world cup, Contepomi is perhaps one of the best playmaking 12's in the world.. With good service from the half-backs, and with the outside backs Leinster have, he could be instrumental in ripping Munsters backline to shreds.. however he has not shown consistent signs of greatness recentley, and Tipoki is looking as assured as ever in the 12 jersey, running rings around defenders and making ground through the midfield time and time again
13:.. Mafi.. V .. O'Driscoll
Another who flatters to decieve, sadly for Ireland fans, O'Driscoll is still failing to deliver consistently, despite continuing improvement and occasional flashes of greatness.. Meanwhile Tipoki's kiwi cohort has been playing his socks off.. Mafi, the clear MOTM last week against Cardiff, ran the show all over the park for long periods, unbelievable commitment and strength
14:.. Howlett.. V .. Horgan
Sadly for one of Irish rugbys greatest servants, this one is a no-brainer.. Howlett is one of the conisseurs of classic wing-play, and dosen't hold the AB's try-scoring record for no reason.. Has been all class during his time with Munster, never failing to excite whether its with ball in hand or his excellence in aggressive defence.. Meanwhile Horgan has varied from poor to unspectacular, failing to use his sizeable bulk to any great advantage lately, while being poor defensively at times
15:.. Earls.. V .. Kearney
Cannot possibly call this one I'm afraid.. Most interesting matchup IMO.. Earls is clearly on fire, and has delivered in no uncertain fashion on the promise he showed in the CC.. However Kearney showed himself to be a class act in the 6N and Summer tour, and despite not being given much chance in his preferred position, he has been in fine form for Leinster. Although Earls may be showing more when it comes to attacking flair at the moment (and don't get me wrong, Kearney has the potential to be devastating coming into the line off front-foor ball this weekend), his relative inexperience at 15 will do him no favours, especially with his opposite number bombarding him with that huge boot of his.. In summary, Earls could come through this baptismal of fire with flying colours, but on the other hand Kearney may have the beating of him through aerial prowess

Can't be bothered comparing the benches.. Think Munster will be stronger in that department though, although I expect Leinster to have Elsom waiting to come on around 50 minutes, which would obviously be a huge boost.

Edit: Looking at the all the red there, its fair to say Leinster got unlucky in every close call.. Think based on the teams as a whole the game will be more even

[Jackass]

I wouldn't say those will be the line ups anyway. At six it will more than Likely be Rocky Elsom for Leinster, 7 will be Jennings, imo BOD and Fitz will be in centre with Contepomi at 10 and Dempsey at FB and Kearney on the left wing.

Also I think Munster would more than likely start Howlett at 15, as I don't think they'd want a direct head to head with Kearney and Earls. Kearney has been superb at FB and his garryowen chases have been brilliant. They'll want Howletts composure and experience back there imo.

On form though you'd have to go for Munster. I'm just hoping we will lift our game for this one and that the RDS factor gives us that extra edge as well. I think either way it'll be a tight game.

If the pack gets it together along with the new boys and we really target Munster up front I think we will win.

Crash

Karmabass: most of those are fair - only think that you called whitaker vs. O'Leary wrong. I've never seen the promise of O'Leary - consistently makes poor distribution decisions when put under serious pressure, box kicks poorly. An average to decent scrummie, definitely, but I think Whitakers experience ticks that box for me.

Though I know lots of others rank O'Leary much higher, except for two games last season he's failed to impress.

remus808

[Jackass] wrote: »

At six it will more than Likely be Rocky Elsom for Leinster, 7 will be Jennings

I don't think Elsom will start, having only arrived in Dublin in the last week (AFAIK).. Between lineouts and how central the flankers role is to the teams systems, I doubt he'll have settled in enough to be afforded a starting position, think he'll be used as a major ball-carrying impact sub in the 2nd half though. If he does start, which would suprise me, your probably right about Jennings wearing 7, think he did just enough off the bench last week to keep O'Brien out. Hopefully if he starts on sunday but isn't doing the business, O'Brien will be brought on early.. cause he is playing like a very hungry man indeed, I forsee a real contest for the 7 jersey

[Jackass] wrote: »

imo BOD and Fitz will be in centre with Contepomi at 10

Again, I can see the logic here and I agree with it in alot of ways. However it seems to me Leinster managment have shown on many occasions their belief in the Sexton-Contepomi-BOD axis. Contepomi and Fitzgerald having no virtually no relevant gametime at 10 and 13 respectively is a declaration of intent from Cheika. I think he will show faith in Sexton, especially considering Sextons handling of the same fixture late last season.

[Jackass] wrote: »

and Dempsey at FB and Kearney on the left wing.

Think you might be right on this one actually, its a 50/50 call really, and I suppose given Horgans lack of form it's probably for the best. It's just that I am loathe to see Kearney playing on the wing, and am hoping to see him given allowed shine in the 15 shirt which I think we all assumed he would have nailed down this season.

[Jackass] wrote: »

Also I think Munster would more than likely start Howlett at 15

Munster have never really played him at full-back, and somehow I don't think they're about to start now.. Yes he wore 15 two weeks ago, but that was a kidney-esque mindgame, as on the day Earls played full-back, except in the 14 jersey. Although I do agree with your logic of having the composure of Howlett at FB, I don't think its what McGahan will opt for.

Podge_irl

At a ridiculous, ridiculous long shot, does anyone know any bar in Clearwater FL that would be showing this game? Away in America at the moment.

buck65

Munster have 2 defeats to avenge from last year and should be up for it, home advantage could be the difference. Leinster win:mad:

redroar1942

Although I do agree with your logic of having the composure of Howlett at FB, I don't think its what McGahan will opt for.[/QUOTE]


I think it has to Howlett as Hurley is both out of form and by all accounts suffering from concussion. I can see Stringer starting, the increased pace of this seasons games suit his style.

Should be a cracker, the Magners has been leaps and bounds ahead of the Guiness this season.

[Jackass]

With all due respect I think if Hurley was to start at 15 it could have a major bearing on the outcome. I watched him against Cardiff and again wasn't impressed and I'd be a lot more apprehensive if I see a back 3 of Howlett, Earls and Dowling. The reason I think Howlett will go at 15 is Leinster have been playing a lot of high ball this season, something I don't think Earls has been fully tested on yet, and I think even for safety Howlett would start there (or at least drift in and swop around with Earls when Leinster have possesion in our own half).

I would be disapointed if Rocky didn't start. He's still fully match fit from the Tri-Nations and has had a couple of weeks rest. In the context of the game I'd like to see him start and then be rested again for 2 weeks until HEC.

JWAD

I honestly couldn't give a stuff who won this game.

I see it as a trial for the November tests and 6N (as all the provincial games actually). Will be great to see the players hopefully contesting for places knowing that Dec Kidney, Gert Smal, Les Kiss and obviously Alan Gaffney are all watching them and grading their performances.

Crash

To be honest, I'm quite glad that this game is coming when its coming - that is, prior to the HC. Means most players are fully match fit, few season injuries, and both teams will be looking to make a statement of intent to the other, so HOPEFULLY she'll be a cracking match

Father Cleary

Well i think its crucial to the way both teams seasons will develop, rivalry between the two is wisely kept low key by the players but this is a big game and im sure the dressing room wont need roaring and screaming to raise heart rates and aggression levels.

[Jackass]

I think also in the context of the league this is a massive game. I think Leinster and Munster are not only both the front runners and so far form teams in the league so far, but both teams are hungry to win the league this year and they seem to be putting in the hard yards now so that it is more managable mid season when HEC is around that maybe if they get enough of a head of steam up now, they will be able to afford to drop a point or two here and there, particularly since once you get past the group stages there are only 3 games to play to win that, and if you're topping the league at that point, come the business end of the season it's a very realistic ambition to wrap up the league and not hinder a potential winning season in Europe. So massive ambition for both sides.

But I've never seen Munster so focused on the league and come out of the traps like this and from a Leinster perspective, it is vital we derail them now and also make amends for our draw with Cardiff - as there are clear skys on the fixture list for Leinster for a couple of months after this in a row of games you would expect us to win all of them, so if we can knock the momentum now we can really build up a head of steam in the league and hopefully push a bit ahead.

Either way this is shaping up to be a big season and the more I think about it the more I think the loss of Nacewa is massive.

It's a good kick start for the season for both teams though and a good test to get battle hardened in time for the groups.

[Jackass]

By the way, this has been confirmed as a complete sell out today amid "Huge Interest". Could probably have gotten double the 18,500 capacity crowd at this one.

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/1257.php

Jello

[Jackass] wrote: »

By the way, this has been confirmed as a complete sell out today amid "Huge Interest". Could probably have gotten double the 18,500 capacity crowd at this one.

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/1257.php

Good to see, I bought 3 tickets last night so lucky I got them when I did.

Should be a great match, as mentioned above I'm glad it's happening now and not after/in the middle of the H Cup. Will be great to see Rocky and VDL start too. Shame about Nacewa though.

Crash

Bollocks, I held off because i've no work at the moment and can't afford to get to the game at all. Was talking to the parents, who were interested in going and they were more than happy to get tickets, and then this. BAH

dreamer_ire

Munster have come out firing on all cyclinders in the ML this year... if this was their home match I think they would take it quite comfortably but Leinster at home are a different proposition. I think it'll be a cracking match and am really looking forward to it. Whatever way it goes Irish rugby is looking really good right now

[Jackass]

crash_000 wrote: »

Bollocks, I held off because i've no work at the moment and can't afford to get to the game at all. Was talking to the parents, who were interested in going and they were more than happy to get tickets, and then this. BAH

If you want a lend of a fiver just come out and say it man. Just ask.

Crash

Change? spare some change??

marco_polo

crash_000 wrote: »

Change? spare some change??

http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/85513

:eek:

pucan

Rocky didn't turn out for Randwick in the Shute Shield Final on Saturday because apparently he was told that he needs to be in Dublin on Wednesday.

Teg Veece

karmabass wrote: »

Tipoki is looking as assured as ever in the 12 jersey

Great analysis but doesn't Tipoki play 13?

Should be a great match. I hope Munster field their first team. My biggest worry is Munster's misfiring lineout. It was a major source of possession for us but now it's more of a liability than anything else.

Overall, I think home advantage will be the deciding factor here.

Father Cleary

Too right on the lineout problem, Flannery isnt on form but the jumpers were in a Knot and falling over each other against Cardiff. I thought Hayes & Quinny would settle things but it looks like they need some confidence especially with Cullen looking to upset things. For once the forewards are getting a dig out from the backs. Id say O'Driscol will either have the best game in 2 years or fold like an umbrella. im leaning toward folding anyway

MCOS

Father Cleary wrote: »

Too right on the lineout problem, Flannery isnt on form but the jumpers were in a Knot and falling over each other against Cardiff. I thought Hayes & Quinny would settle things but it looks like they need some confidence especially with Cullen looking to upset things. For once the forewards are getting a dig out from the backs. Id say O'Driscol will either have the best game in 2 years or fold like an umbrella. im leaning toward folding anyway

BOD will have to have his best 'defensive' game in 2 years. The thing the 3 kiwi lads have brought to Munster is straight lines and tight passing. How often do you see NZ lobbing 20-25 yard passes? Eddie O'Sullivan seemed to favour this, get the ball wider quicker but more often than not the ball floats for 2 seconds to a player who is almost standing still allowing any orgainised drift D to push it out. The favoured quick short passes to supporting runners at full speed that NZ traditionally favours has added a different dimension to the Munster back play.

Things were already settled by the time Quinny came on. Munster had stepped up a couple of gears and had 14 man Cardiff on the back foot

[Jackass]

MCOS wrote: »

BOD will have to have his best 'defensive' game in 2 years.

Defensively there is no doubt he is one of the best in the world at centre. He had one or two lapses in the tour down under this year after nearly a full year out, but he's back to his best in that regard.

Example was againt Cardiff this year. 16 - 16 in the dying seconds of the game, Cardiff storming up the pitch in our half, all they need to do is get in a few yards closer and set up a drop goal or force a penalty to win the game. Then O'Driscoll, completely isolated in the midfield on his own with 3 attackers (2 support players either side) come at him, and he does this.

To the casual spectator, these things go unnoticed a lot of the times in games, but the amount of ball O'Driscoll turns over and his hits are immense. I have 0% fear of our defence in midfield.

I think he's really going to raise his game for this. I'm amazed how "poor" some people think he has been or that he's "lost it" considering only last year he was the best Irish player in the world cup (imo), on the tour down under he was probably our second best player after Kearney (one or two defensive lapses, but he was not match sharp coming back from nearly a season long injury.) he made big breaks in those games, almost going in at the corner from a break in his own half then pass didn't go to hand when being chased down by a winger. 2 seasons ago he ran in a brace of tries at Lansdowne against Munster, was on flying form and even performing his party tricks and the season before that he had a viral flu and was puking on the pitch against Agen in the Heineken Cup - As well as soring a hat-trick.

So the main reason I can think of people saying he's lost it or hasn't been playing well is because he hasn't come onto the pitch and literally turned water into wine. By his own standards he is not playing as well as he has. By a general standard he is still one of the best centres in the world. He's just not THE best at the moment, like he was before.

JWAD

[Jackass] wrote: »

Defensively there is no doubt he is one of the best in the world at centre

Exactly. He's basically a second breakaway. Can play the ruck as good as any no.7 out there would aspire to.
When he tackles, he doesn't just stop a player. He puts in hits and is generally on his feet to contest before the ref can shout 'ruck!'.
If he was a Rugby League player, he'd be a fantastic nr3 or 4.

toomevara

JWAD wrote: »

If he was a Rugby League player, he'd be a fantastic nr3 or 4.

Ahhh I can but dream......he'd be a legend of the game, one of the few Irish players of the past few years who'd cut it in League...

Father Cleary

its not his defense that lets him down, still robbing ball a 6 or 7 wouldn't get a hand near its just everything else has gone a bit stale. Dowling has similar abilities for getting in the thick of things

Climate Expert

Its on Setanta 1 and not Ireland.
They pulled this stuff last year but had lesser games on instead but there is no hiding their intentions this year.The cost of watching your province in teh Hcup and Magners league is quite a lot now, I think 35pm if you are with Sky.

redroar1942

Sorry but how exactly are you working that out?

P.C.

Danger_Dave wrote: »

P.S Dont forget the boards meet up for the game !

Sorry for butting in before reading the whole thread, but what is this about a meet up to watch the game????

And do you allow people who shout at the TV screen???

Climate Expert

redroar1942 wrote: »

Sorry but how exactly are you working that out?

Sky Sports 25pm (I think) and Setanta is 10pm.

juvenal

I kind of regret not getting the bundle ticket for this now, as I was working the night of the Ospreys game and wasn't sure if I'd be around for Sunday evening. I might head up around the RDS and see if I can grab one for myself just before kickoff.

The squads have been announced, as expected as full strength as possible.

MUNSTER SQUAD (v Leinster): K Earls, D Howlett, B Murphy, R Tipoki, L Mafi, I Dowling, R O'Gara, P Warwick, T O'Leary, P Stringer, F Pucciariello, M Horan, F Sheahan, J Flannery, J Hayes, D O'Callaghan, P O'Connel, D Ryan, J O'Sullivan, J Melck, A Quinlan, D Wallace

LEINSTER SQUAD (v Munster): C Whitaker, C Keane, J Sexton, F Contepomi, B O'Driscoll, G Brown, S Horgan, L Fitzgerald, F McFadden, R Kearney, S Keogh, E O'Malley, G Dempsey. C Healy, S Knoop, R McCormack, B Jackman, B Blaney, J Fogarty, CJ van der Linde, S Wright, C Jowitt, M O'Kelly, L Cullen, D Toner, R Elsom, T Hogan, S Keogh, S Jennings, S O'Brien, K McLaughlin, J Heaslip.

[Jackass]

Well that's the Munster match day 22, so the team more or less picks it's self. Plus with CJ & Rocky in there for Leinster, I'd expect them to start. So for me the match ups will be:

1. Wright 1. Horan
2. Jackman 2. Flannery
3. Van Der Linde 3. Hayes

Front row, I think it's advantage Leinster.

4. O'Kelly 4. O'Connell
5. Cullen 5. O'Callaghan

Second row - normally advantage Munster here but I'd say at best it's even at the moment seeing how well the Leinster line out has been doing compared to Munster line out.

6. Elsom 6. Wallace
7. Jennings 7. Quinlan
8. Heaslip 8. Melck

Back Row - Again very even, I think it will be a combination of factors here, with the solid platform Heaslip will be given a lot oppertunity to run with the ball and move around the loose, How will Rocky settle in?, Jennings was very impressive vs the O's when he came on, clearly feels under pressure for his placed and stepped up, how will Melck do vs Leinster? This area is a tough one to call and I'd say even on paper right now, but if one can get over the other it could be the winning of the game.

9. Whitaker 9. O'Leary
10. Sexton 10. O'Gara

Half-Backs: Advantage Munster

12. Contepomi 12. Mafi
13. O'Driscoll 13. Tipoki

Midfield: Again, very even and difficult to call it one way or the other. I'm tempted to go for Leinster as Contepomi has been on fire, O'Driscoll has been extremely impressive in all 3 games so far and I don't think the Munster pairing of Mafi & Tipoki have ever made any impact against Leinster, certainly not to the extent they can against other teams.

11. Kearney 11. Dowling
14. Fitzgerald 14. Howlett
15. Dempsey 15. Earls

Back three: As with all over the key areas, close again. It's tough to call for Munster who will play on the right and who will play full-back and for Leinster there is also the pooability of Horgan on the right and Kearney at FB with Dempsey on the bench. But Dempsey has been superb this season so far, and Fitzgerald has been a nightmare for Edinburgh and Ospreys to handle and Kearney is full of pace is great going forward and is superb in defence also. I'd have to go with Leinster to shade it here, simply for the reason that Kearney will be more than a match for Howlett on the right, I think Fitzgerald is stronger than Dowling in that head to head, and on Dempseys form and with the inexperience of Earls, and the lack of test he has been given at full back so far, particularly under the high ball, coupled with the fact that Dempsey has played against every full back in world rugby worth mentioning, and I'm yet to see anybody get the better of him, Leinster to shade it.

Inquitus

1. Wright 1. Horan
2. Jackman 2. Flannery
3. Van Der Linde 3. Hayes

Advantage Munster cos CJ is 5 mins off a plane and never played for Leinster

4. O'Kelly 4. O'Connell
5. Cullen 5. O'Callaghan

Second row is not just about the lineout, Cullen is one game back from injury - Adv Munster

6. Elsom 6. Wallace
7. Jennings 7. Quinlan
8. Heaslip 8. Melck

Elsom on his debut - Adv Munster, Leinster backrow badly underperformed in 1 game this season and not great in another.

9. Whitaker 9. O'Leary
10. Sexton 10. O'Gara

Half-Backs: Advantage Munster

12. Contepomi 12. Mafi
13. O'Driscoll 13. Tipoki

Close, prob adv Leinster

11. Kearney 11. Dowling
14. Fitzgerald 14. Howlett
15. Dempsey 15. Earls

50/50

[Jackass] I think your are comparing them as if both sides are settled and playing together, people seem to miss the point that Munster are much more settled than Leinster atm, and that your team has 2 guys straight off a plane making their Debut. Were that not the case I would agree much more with your commentary.

Inq

Crash

Think the tight five should be summed up together for those comparisons actually - by breaking it into 3 and 2, you're both putting two much emphasis on particular set pieces - for instance, the Leinster tight five have performed significantly better than Munster in the lineout as of late, while we may suffer in the scrum dependant on CJ's performance - however, given that he is a star player, you would expect him still to be a significant force, even if they're not fully clicking (in fact, much like Howlett in his first few games with Munster). Overall, I'd say compared as a tight five the advantage would lean more Munsters way, but not overly significantly.

Half back pairings - definitely agree with Munster having the advantage, however thats mostly down to the difference at 10 - O'Leary will not get the better of Whitaker very often, I would put money on it.

Back 3 - Leinster shade it, imo. While Earls is looking like an absolute beauty, Fitzgeralds experience definitely shades it> Howlett brings it back closer to level overall, but still think that'll be a leinster section.

sure we'll see - getting excited now

redroar1942

Sorry is someone actually trying to claim that Rob kearney(fine fullback that he is) is the equal of Doug Howlett!!!!!

Granted that Fitzgerald is more then a match for Dowling, but what leinster gain from Dempsey defensively, Earls surely has the edge from an attacking point of view.

[Jackass]

I disagree inq.

I think Richie McCaw could step off a plane an hour before the game and be very effective for either team. Van Der Linde and Elsom are both match fit, and Van Der Linde in particular has been training for a few weeks with Leinster, and will probably be put at 3 to target Horan, so I don't see Munster getting anything out of Leinster in the front row. Also Jackman has been superb and put in a man of the match display last week, along with his throwing to the lineout which has been second to none. (afaik we haven't lost a single line out on our throw yet this season, and mostly they are clean takes and a mssively solid platform - in the set piece I think it's adv Leinster)

As for second row, Mal has been superb so far this season, and Leo, although only one game in, was impressive, couple that with the fact that I think DOC adnPOC have been ineffective so far this season.

Back row, again, Elsom will be fully fit and match sharp, so I don't see any problems, but still wouldn't call this one.

as for back 3, I'd say Leinster have enough of an advantage to shade it more than 50/50.

But sure none of this matters anyway what I say or you say. Sunday, the players will say it all!! Cautiously optomistic, ubt nervous about this game!!!