House Plan design, How much?

AckwelFoley

I know this is a "how long is a pce of string" question, but how much is a new house design going to cost, is it per m2 priced?

New regs towards energy efficent homes are going to promote and requore more box shape homes as they are easier insulate and and cold bridges.

Fortunatley these are houses i tend to like and i am planning on looking into building another house in the comming year or two.

Are there sites in Ireland i can look at house styles that i can get ideas from to propose toward house design?

I can build anytype house, ive built the one im in, but i am useless at design, i know what i like but just cant design, my "gift" is working from plans.

Id like to look into buying a site, but i want house plans first, but dont want to spend a fortune on the plans either..

What am i looking at price wise?

sydthebeat

snyper wrote: »

I know this is a "how long is a pce of string" question, but how much is a new house design going to cost, is it per m2 priced?

New regs towards energy efficent homes are going to promote and requore more box shape homes as they are easier insulate and and cold bridges.

Fortunatley these are houses i tend to like and i am planning on looking into building another house in the comming year or two.

Are there sites in Ireland i can look at house styles that i can get ideas from to propose toward house design?

I can build anytype house, ive built the one im in, but i am useless at design, i know what i like but just cant design, my "gift" is working from plans.

Id like to look into buying a site, but i want house plans first, but dont want to spend a fortune on the plans either..

What am i looking at price wise?

not the way it works im afraid.....

every plan should be designed for the particular site, anything else simply doesnt make maximum usage of the site. more to follow...

Slig

There will be more but the main points are:
if you design the house first then you could end up getting no sun in your kitchen or living room. bathrooms facing the sun and front door facing the prevailing wind. Even from an energy efficency point of view yo want the southern side to have the most glazing to get the most free heat and little or no glazing on the north

Pick a site first and then design the house to fit. To get a house designed you are probably looking at min 1200 euro. Different areas will have different requirements so there is no point in going and getting a 2 storey house designed and trying to get planning permission in an area where there is nothing but single storey houses.

AckwelFoley

Syd,

Yes, i know what you mean.

Passive type houses need to be designed for the site itself..

No6

snyper wrote: »

Syd,

Yes, i know what you mean.

Passive type houses need to be designed for the site itself..

In fairness snyper all houses wheather passive or not should be designed for the site itself, every site is different and plonking a cheap generic plan from a book into a site is not a good idea, Generally the planners give you quite a hard time if you're doing that. Find the site then get someone who can design to design your house to maximise all the positive aspects of the site in a style that you like and the planners are comfortable with and you should have a vastly superior final product.

No6

Slig wrote: »

There will be more but the main points are:
if you design the house first then you could end up getting no sun in your kitchen or living room. bathrooms facing the sun and front door facing the prevailing wind. Even from an energy efficency point of view yo want the southern side to have the most glazing to get the most free heat and little or no glazing on the north

Pick a site first and then design the house to fit. To get a house designed you are probably looking at min 1200 euro. Different areas will have different requirements so there is no point in going and getting a 2 storey house designed and trying to get planning permission in an area where there is nothing but single storey houses.

Slig I'd say at 1200 for a house designed and a planning application submitted the best you're going to get for that is a rehash of a plan already designed, might be just what you'd want but may not be either!!:D

RKQ

I fully agree No.6.... you took the words right out of my mouth. Good design need not cost the earth but it would be very difficult for €1200. (Maybe a straight forward extension, beautifully designed, for a close family member)

Of course there is another side of the coin, sometimes some people only want a basic box, on a budget, nothing fancy..... we still need to use our professional skill to design the box to blend into the site / orientation etc... on budget.

IMO the word "passive" is a relative newish term, to the general public, but the principles have been around for decades. It always made sense to me to design around the site and the orientation of the sun!

Slig

The best comparison I can make, and I dont want to sound patronising.
I'd Like a range rover but if I was driving to Dublin and back every day I would definately regret not putting some thought into the running costs.
Simply designing your layout alone to make the most of passive solar gain will make a huge difference to your house and unfortunately that mostly cannot be done unless the site is chosen. Same with views and noise. You might end up with a busy road at the front of the house which could mean moving the living rooms to the back.

Builderfromhell

As a builder who also designs houses it saddens me to see some of the house designs I get for quotations. The last one I got had the garage on the south side of the house with the sun room on the North side. Rooms with doors opening in awkward ways. Few instances where design was not in compliance with building regs.
last year I looked at a house where the huge glazed atrium to the front faced south. Several stone and roof details were un buildable (sorry not a word, but you know what I mean).
BUilders can make a nice few euros pricing these jobs and then seeking extra money to rectify bad design. A few thousand euro saved will disappear very fast.

DOCARCH

Very simple - you will not get a house 'design' for E1,200. However you will probably get a house 'plan' for that! That's my tuppence worth!

No6

I aggree with all of the above, please dont cut of you nose to spite your face and save a few thousand, cheap isn't always good.

muffler

While all the advice offered above would be spot on I have to say that in fairness snyper was just looking for an idea as to how much plans of a house would cost. He didnt word it properly when he stated that he wanted plans before securing a site but I think what he meant was that he wanted see what size of a house he could afford to build and how much the plans would cost and how are the plans priced - fixed fee or percentage.

Anyhow maybe snyper would clarify these points.

Retro-Fit

I've heard of quotes from 'yer man down the road who does the plannin' €3,500 for a planning application. Usual pattern book muck. Architects charge approx 10% of initial cost and bill by hours and deliverables. approx €100 per hour. They produce Tender documents and construction details , specification, supervise and certify. so say €15,000. Big difference in cost but huge difference in quality should be expected. They also act as intermediary between client and builder in contractual and financial dealings which makes it worth every penny. The term Architect is registered and the local woodwork teacher can not call himself an Architect.

sydthebeat

Retro-Fit wrote: »

I've heard of quotes from 'yer man down the road who does the plannin' €3,500 for a planning application. Usual pattern book muck. Architects charge approx 10% of initial cost and bill by hours and deliverables. approx €100 per hour. They produce Tender documents and construction details , specification, supervise and certify. so say €15,000. Big difference in cost but huge difference in quality should be expected. They also act as intermediary between client and builder in contractual and financial dealings which makes it worth every penny. The term Architect is registered and the local woodwork teacher can not call himself an Architect.

Thats a very good point retro.....

It leads me to question where a professional such as an architectural technician or engineer or quantity surveyor stands when offering these similar services?
Is there any restriction in the services these can offer? I dont think so.

RKQ

My doctor refused to charge me on my last visit. The Chemist charged me for the prescription. Who gave the best professional service?
Is my Doctors ability of no value because it was free?
Is my Chemist a better professional because he charged me?

If its free or reasonable then is it as good as the expensive fee? When was skill, profession ability and service dictated by price?

I believe the Architect is primarily the Designer. A good Architect is a great Designer.

In the case of a standard semi-detached rear extension, there is a limited number of design options. The garden is of a standard size in a standard suburb. It can only be a certain height and most people, including the Planner, will want it to match the existing dwelling house.

Therefore IMO it is difficult to justify 18K fee, because there is a limited amount of design that one can do. The tender documents and working drawings will show a certain about of standards details ( even if drawn to comply with the last passive house requirements!) One should be able to quantity the time involved in preparing same and quote accordingly.

Certification and inspection is standard. One can only be on site at predetermined times / stages to witness pouring of foundations, ground floor and wall construction. One should from experience be able to quantify time involved allow for unforseen problems / meetings and quote accordingly.

Maybe Mr. Hobs is right, "Rip-off republic". I believe in a professional fee for a professional job but I do not necessarily believe in imposing justifable commercial fees and rates on domestic extensions.

Fee charged is not an indicator of design skill, professionalism, experience or quality. If it was all the Cowboys would simply ensure their fee was the highest around and the "mark" would fall for if for fear of a fee being too reasonable or fair!

Retro-Fit

sydthebeat wrote: »

Thats a very good point retro.....

It leads me to question where a professional such as an architectural technician or engineer or quantity surveyor stands when offering these similar services?
Is there any restriction in the services these can offer? I dont think so.

Yes registered Engineers and Surveyors can sign interim payment certs and compliance certs, but generally AT's cannot. Architectural Technology is not strictly recognised as a profession in this country. Proficient AT's with 10 years experience can get on the ministers list as qualified t practice as an 'Architect'. Since registration of title some banks have refused to accept certs from AT's even though they are registered with CIAT, the UK professional Body for AT's. Architectural Technlogists can go through the procedure of joining the RIAI as a technical member but this is not registration as an Architect. Moves are underway with the graduate network of Architectural Technicians from Bolton st and Waterford IT, the only courses recognised by the RIAI, to change this, but don't hold your breath.

In short, yes Architectural technologists are more than competent, but they have to be recognised as practicing Architects to satisfy some banks and lawyers unfortunatly.

ConfusedTech

Snyper, without getting into the Architectural Technician discussion and back to your comments, I would like to offer you come sound advise. You need a good professional to draw up your plans and represent you. This will cost money, and if you pay too little, quiet often you wont get the quality of work. I am an AT, and 50% of my work comes from representing clients that got screwed by their previous arch, or tech, who charged in some cases half what I would, and boy, they got that level of service. I have two cases where I was well out of the game in the tendering, but after serious issues, the clients eventually cam back to me to sort out the issues.

You need somebody that works in the field, preferably locally and with a proven track record. They should be offering to meet you 2 or 3 times before planning to ensure that you are getting what you want, what you need and more importantly what complies with the development plan, sustainable development and the building regulations. They should treat your project as an independant project and not rubber stamp it from previous projects. Again, this costs money.

muffler

And after that little bit of self back patting I can welcome you to the forum

Just take a minute to read the charter please.

ConfusedTech

Muffler, it is great to be back on the AT forum. I have been on a break . Please dont take my post the wrong way. No back patting intended, just some real life experience to share and honest advise.

Mellor

Retro-Fit wrote: »

Architectural Technology is not strictly recognised as a profession in this country.

To be honest, I'd disagree here. As would a few others.
I maintain the ATs are professionals, and AT a profession.
Being recognised as a profession is not the same as being recognaise, basically, as an architect by some banks.

But, I do know where you are coming from, and I am being a little pedantic.
Possibly justified though, as a layperson might only half take you point. And pass on a message, that Arch techs isn't a real profession, to a friend.
Can't be two careful.

Above all, welcome to the forum, and same to you Confused Tech

ConfusedTech

Good to be here Mellor, and I would firmly agree with you. AT are professionals, and AT is a profession.

AutoCAD

HI,

Your origional questions being How Much Plans Cost....?
'Plans' costs range obviously.
However, if its for planning purposes only
then the following rates would apply.....
(Based in West of Ireland - not Dublin rates....)
upto 1800ft2 Bungalow - 600
upto 2000ft dormer - 800
over 2000ft2 dormer 1000
over area in all types of straight forward types between
1000 and 1800 - pending design and your brief you give
to the architect.

Be careful though - make sure your architect clearly states whats
included: ie: Planning Permission Application has various documents.
Then again you might not want an application based on what stage
your at.

Ask your Architect straight up - first response will guide you
as to how they will charge.

A

topcatcbr

AutoCAD wrote: »

HI,

Your origional questions being How Much Plans Cost....?
'Plans' costs range obviously.
However, if its for planning purposes only
then the following rates would apply.....
(Based in West of Ireland - not Dublin rates....)
upto 1800ft2 Bungalow - 600
upto 2000ft dormer - 800
over 2000ft2 dormer 1000
over area in all types of straight forward types between
1000 and 1800 - pending design and your brief you give
to the architect.

Be careful though - make sure your architect clearly states whats
included: ie: Planning Permission Application has various documents.
Then again you might not want an application based on what stage
your at.

Ask your Architect straight up - first response will guide you
as to how they will charge.

A

I wouldn't expect to get alot done for these prices even at copying straight out of a book. I think anyone offering to do work at these prices is inexperienced to say the least and my advise for what its worth (probably not alot) is to stay well clear.

Get a reputable professional. You will pay more but it will pay off in the long run.

muffler

AutoCAD wrote: »

HI,

Your origional questions being How Much Plans Cost....?
'Plans' costs range obviously.
However, if its for planning purposes only
then the following rates would apply.....
(Based in West of Ireland - not Dublin rates....)
upto 1800ft2 Bungalow - 600
upto 2000ft dormer - 800
over 2000ft2 dormer 1000
over area in all types of straight forward types between
1000 and 1800 - pending design and your brief you give
to the architect.

Be careful though - make sure your architect clearly states whats
included: ie: Planning Permission Application has various documents.
Then again you might not want an application based on what stage
your at.

Ask your Architect straight up - first response will guide you
as to how they will charge.

A

Are these the rates that you charge?

DOCARCH

AutoCAD wrote: »

HI,

Your origional questions being How Much Plans Cost....?
'Plans' costs range obviously.
However, if its for planning purposes only
then the following rates would apply.....
(Based in West of Ireland - not Dublin rates....)
upto 1800ft2 Bungalow - 600
upto 2000ft dormer - 800
over 2000ft2 dormer 1000
over area in all types of straight forward types between
1000 and 1800 - pending design and your brief you give
to the architect.

IMHO - that's madness - at those prices all you could expect is to get lines lashed down on a piece of paper! :p - at least the 'plans' was somewhat highlighted!

AutoCAD

Hi Guys,

Are you being charged too much for house plans?

Local architect charges those rates. Good reputation and
quality detailed plans.

I've been building for some time now and I agree that some
plans you see going in for planning are muck. When trying to
price off these, you have to state where you are going to
make additions to the plans to make a plan design actually
work.

I've seen large name architectural firms put out plans that
really shoudnt have been let out. And during tender stage
when they are asked how they intend the building to be
constructed/supported - its usually the same answer; thats the
engineers job to provide structural design details.

Up to each architectural designer what they charge - some more than others I guess.

Compare end results. Examine the merrits of the design ans see the designers expierence in these plans! Some designers are charging an arm
and a leg in the busy times while they can.

Moreover,
ask you self this, how much does a good arch technician
get paid to do the works? Then ad a nominal charge for a supervisors
time to over see the design and thats how much its costs.
;Given variables of course, like the home owners initial brief; clear or
undecided - the designer can only work with what they're given.

As an expierenced builder I can say I have plans drawn up and modified for right money - but you have to wade through to find the designer that
works well for you!

A

:rolleyes:

muffler

AutoCAD wrote: »

Hi Guys,

Are you being charged too much for house plans?

I like this guy.

sydthebeat

AutoCAD wrote: »

Hi Guys,

Are you being charged too much for house plans?


:rolleyes:

call 1500 y.e.l.l.o.p.a.c.k.p.l.a.n.s.

AutoCAD

Hi Syd,

Can you tell us how much it would cost
to draft a set of house plans for planning
permission purposes. Not prepare the planning
application, but to prepare the drawings
ie: GF Plan, FF Plan, Section (x4) and 4x Elevations.
Exclude site layut plan. site sections, drainage sections, etc.

Say 2500ft2 Dormer - L Shape with
no dormer windows, just velux. Average client
brief with 4 Bed, Utility and WC near GF Kitchen.,
ect,.

Also, what part of country these rates apply to.

I would be interested to compare.

Thanks Syd,.

a

sydthebeat

AutoCAD wrote: »

Hi Syd,

Can you tell us how much it would cost
to draft a set of house plans for planning
permission purposes. Not prepare the planning
application, but to prepare the drawings
ie: GF Plan, FF Plan, Section (x4) and 4x Elevations.
Exclude site layut plan. site sections, drainage sections, etc.

Say 2500ft2 Dormer - L Shape with
no dormer windows, just velux. Average client
brief with 4 Bed, Utility and WC near GF Kitchen.,
ect,.

Also, what part of country these rates apply to.

I would be interested to compare.

Thanks Syd,.

a

i wouldnt draft plans, id design the house....

edit:
ok, to be fair, youve asked a straight forward question.

The short answer would be in the region of €1 per sq ft just to 'draft' the plans... basically because just to do that isnt any kind of a proper service, i would charge somewhere between €1.30-€1.50 per sq ft to bring to a complete planning application, thus its in the clients interest to engage me to do the 'planning' service.... midlands area.

to be honest, i wouldnt even do an extension nixer for €600..... (the recession may change that of course!!)


I do not like when the client comes into me with an 'l shaped, no dormer windows' type brief because they are basically designing the dwelling themselves and they are just engaging me to do the donkey work of drawing up the plans....(yes, i have done this, needs must and all that..) but in general clients see better results when they furnish me with a written brief of accomodation required... nothing more..

again, to be honest, if you are charging €1000 for 2000 sq ft dwellings, theres no way you could sustain any kind of a business, other than 'off the record' kind...

ConfusedTech

I must agree that the prices AutoCad posted seem genuinly low. After paying expenses, tax and taking into consideration consultation time, I could not imagine any funds left for preparing the drawings themselves. That said, as noted by some of the previous posts, the reality is that price does not always dictate quality. There are some good people out there that are cheap.

A word of caution though. If you are getting quotes like that, please be very careful. I would be very cautious if I got prices like this. Getting drawings drafted up is fine, but if there is no thought gone into them, no thought for Building regulations, Health and Safety, Fire etc, they are not worth anything once they are built. You run the risk of building something that does not work!

topcatcbr

sydthebeat wrote: »

i wouldnt draft plans, id design the house....

edit:
ok, to be fair, youve asked a straight forward question.

The short answer would be in the region of €1 per sq ft just to 'draft' the plans... basically because just to do that isnt any kind of a proper service, i would charge somewhere between €1.30-€1.50 per sq ft to bring to a complete planning application, thus its in the clients interest to engage me to do the 'planning' service.... midlands area.

to be honest, i wouldnt even do an extension nixer for €600..... (the recession may change that of course!!)


I do not like when the client comes into me with an 'l shaped, no dormer windows' type brief because they are basically designing the dwelling themselves and they are just engaging me to do the donkey work of drawing up the plans....(yes, i have done this, needs must and all that..) but in general clients see better results when they furnish me with a written brief of accomodation required... nothing more..

again, to be honest, if you are charging €1000 for 2000 sq ft dwellings, theres no way you could sustain any kind of a business, other than 'off the record' kind...

Great explaination and realistic price guide.
Well done Syd

sinnerboy

AutoCAD - I wouldn't get out of bed for €2k , never mind "do drawings" :P

muffler

sinnerboy wrote: »

AutoCAD - I wouldn't get out of bed for €2k , never mind "do drawings" :P

You'll have to post up her photo

RKQ

AutoCAD wrote: »

if its for planning purposes only
then the following rates would apply.....
(Based in West of Ireland - not Dublin rates....)
upto 1800ft2 Bungalow - 600
upto 2000ft dormer - 800
over 2000ft2 dormer 1000
over area in all types of straight forward types between
1000 and 1800 - pending design and your brief you give
to the architect.

Great rates Autocad, if you are for real. I note you just joined this week!:D

Maybe I'll send you some work... but at those rates, I think you are recession proof. I assume alot of your Clients end up in the 1800 bracket, which would make things viable. Nobody was building small houses up to now!
I'd have to agree with Syd - much more realistic rates. But refurbishments and extensions are difficult to price per sqft. As they can be quite complicated.

I now understand why certain members of the public get confused with fees - what could I possibly be doing that entitles me to charge a multiple of your fee?
I wish they understood whats involved!:( Its not "just a drawing da computer done, must of took 5 minutes".

Maybe as the recession bits fees will have to drop! I hope not, but never say never!
I don't believe in monopolies, there must be healthy competition but rates must also be realistic and sustainable. We all have to live.

No6

AutoCAD wrote: »

HI,

Your origional questions being How Much Plans Cost....?
'Plans' costs range obviously.
However, if its for planning purposes only
then the following rates would apply.....
(Based in West of Ireland - not Dublin rates....)
upto 1800ft2 Bungalow - 600
upto 2000ft dormer - 800
over 2000ft2 dormer 1000
over area in all types of straight forward types between
1000 and 1800 - pending design and your brief you give
to the architect.

Be careful though - make sure your architect clearly states whats
included: ie: Planning Permission Application has various documents.
Then again you might not want an application based on what stage
your at.

Ask your Architect straight up - first response will guide you
as to how they will charge.

A

What exactly are you including in this autocad? I'm based in the west too and its a very low cost for perparing a planning application, Is further information included in those rate, the ammounts of further information can be excessive, particuraly in Mayo at the moment. Even with just rehashing an old plan and planting it on a new site I wouldn't make anything from those fees.

muffler

Listen lads, dont take the guys query as being in any way serious.

"Long line" and "fishing" are the words that spring to mind.

Mixupat

Just got quote of 6300 + VAT from Architect in Mayo to draw up plans and bring through planning. This is based on a 3000 Sq Ft house at estimated €100 per Sq Ft build. A bit more than i'd like to pay out but i like the architect. Dont think i'll pay that much though. I'd apreciate any PM's with recommendations and prices. I agree that you get what you pay for but there has to be some medium ground on this.

sydthebeat

Mixupat wrote: »

Just got quote of 6300 + VAT from Architect in Mayo to draw up plans and bring through planning. This is based on a 3000 Sq Ft house at estimated €100 per Sq Ft build. A bit more than i'd like to pay out but i like the architect. Dont think i'll pay that much though. I'd apreciate any PM's with recommendations and prices. I agree that you get what you pay for but there has to be some medium ground on this.

Do you want him to 'draw up plans' (that you are supplying obviously) or do you want him to design the dwelling... because theres a world of difference.

you may save a few grand at this stage, possibly to pay for a coving or grecian pillars or the like, but youll find it very difficult to put a price on a well designed dwelling that 'feels right' to live in, makes best use to surrounding vistas, is comfortable to live in, and has that little bit 'extra' that other un-designed houses havent got.

in everything we do in our lives, theres no substitue for good professional services. Pay peanuts, get monkeys.....

RKQ

Well said Syd... I agree fully
but I'm not a great believer in the "Pay peanuts, get monkeys..... "because a good conman / cowboy simply charges more to seem legit.A great conman charges more than anyone else, so everyone thinks he's the best!

Quality, design ability, professionalism are not connected or related to a fee.

Go look at a Designers designs or get the name of a good designer from a friend or family member. IMO Reputation is the mark of quality and Professionalism to look for.

Mixupat

Just to clarify wording, i want an architect who will my home based on ideas i give on how i like to live and ideas that i like and also making the best use of the site. I have no plan designs and am open to ideas.

sinnerboy

I have cleared this with mods first - a quote from a colleague, who posted this over on the CI forum , Thanks Pat , I could not have stated this any more concisely ....

One of the things that comes through on this forum is the number of people building houses for themselves on greenfield sites without any proper professional advice. This appears to be in order to save on professional fees. However from the size of the houses been built it is obvious that they could well afford the advice an architect could offer.
My advice would be as follows
1) Do you really want to live on a greenfield site where the only access for your children to school, church shops is by car fueled by a rapidly dimishing resource.
2) does the house need to be as big
From experience I find that the first thing is that clients do, is start listing rooms that they do not need, formal unused reception rooms, bedrooms that may only be used once a year if that by visiting relations, double garages, workshops palayrooms. They rapidly end up wanting a behemoth of a house that is way beyond their needs. Of course then they cant afford an architect if they are to build this monstrosity an end up with one of those dreadful pattern book houses from 1980 design books, with north facing sunrooms , that litter our country side.
No family house needs to be more than 150sqm, if it is properly designed. Within this you can have all the space and light that you could possibly need. The reason that houses end up larger than this is because people are hiring amateur unqualified draftsmen to draw up their house. A properly qualified architect will vigoursly question your assumptions and needs and you should end up with house designed around you and your family that you can afford. If you use your architect as a draftmen to draw up your house according to your own limited experience of what a house should look like - enormous with poorly linked unusable spaces.The house will not be designed for your site.

Remember you are designing a house for you and your family not for your grand aunts perception of palatial grandeur. You are not designing a B & B for your friend and distant relations, so why mortgate yourself to the hilt for your freinds who can either sleep on the floor or stay in the B & B down the road.

A 300sqm house no matter how energy efficent will cost a fortune to heat, hours to clean, and is using an unsustainable amount of matirial to build. A small house is an energy efficent house.

Design can change your life for the better and provide you with a house that is afordable, easy to heat and a pleasure to live in. Can you really afford not to use an architect. Throw away those dreadful pattern books. These are a crime against ireland's countryside. I spoke to one Planner who told me how these pattern book cowboys would come in every day with a different client and show the same plan, wink at the planner and tell the client how that particular plan is particularly suited to their needs.

You simply cannot afford bad design

No6

Mixupat wrote: »

Just to clarify wording, i want an architect who will my home based on ideas i give on how i like to live and ideas that i like and also making the best use of the site. I have no plan designs and am open to ideas.

Thats a good start Mixupat, another few things you will need in Mayo at the moment is flexibility, the planners have a rural house design guide which states everything has to look like a cottage (unless it's contemparory and they like it!!) and lots and lots of patience as our development plan is up in the air following the Ministers intervention. Oh yes of course half the county in now considered under pressure from urban areas and planning has become quite restrictive in those areas.

Builderfromhell

"You simply cannot afford bad design"

Last sentence sums it up.

Good design is not valued in Ireland regrettably.

How many enquiries start off with 'How much do you charge to draw up plans' Cringe

No6

Builderfromhell wrote: »

"You simply cannot afford bad design"

Last sentence sums it up.

Good design is not valued in Ireland regrettably.

How many enquiries start off with 'How much do you charge to draw up plans' Cringe

I agree, if the first question to me is how much do I charge then I know I'm not getting the job and try and get off the phone as quick as possible as I'm only wasting my time although in relation to sinnerboy's post which I agreee with for the most part I have found if you are too vigorous
in chalanging your clients assumptions you can end up with no client!!! Possibly not the best idea in these troubled times!!!

ConfusedTech

I would agree totally with most of the posts. Most houses are poorly designed and are a blight on the landscape. So many people turn their noses up at a decent price for good design. 6900 does not sound too bad, if you get a good service and a house that 'works'. Quiet often 2,000 can get you something that you will regret, although the best advice would be to go with somebody that is recommended locally. Dont fall for the 'I know all of the planners' line.

sinnerboy

Mixupat

for a €300m2 house you will easily spend , without trying hard

Floor finishes ( say 10 year life ) @ €50/m2 - €15,000.00
Decorations -( say 5-7 year life ) guestimate €10,000.00
Kitchen - ( average life in UK - 15 Years ) - €15,000.00
Bathroom fittings ( average life in UK - 15 Years ) - assume 4 bathrooms each with 3 sanitary pieces at €1000 each - budget method to provide for ALL accessories ) - €12,000.00

How long do you expect The House to last . What are you prepared to invest in getting IT fundamentally right ?

AutoCAD

Hi Guys,

Wow - those rates have sparked off the debate.:D

Please read those rates in context guys, they are rates
for drafting plans. As per my last entry, these rates are not
for planning applications.

For the most part I would agree with most of the replies above
replies about getting value for money in a good design-works package.

However, I maintain that a lot of people are getting ripped off
for what they are getting from some of the more larger, expensive firms.

I have seen a lot of planning contracts leave here in the
region of €1500 to €2500 (Part of this would be the drafting
of plans costing maybe €1000 or even €1800 with the site survey
and application docs, OS Maps making the balance. )

I would agree with 'Sinner' in that alot of people come in here
not knowing what they want, rather more wanting the right colour of the kitchen tiles.
A good designer listens to his/her clients brief and delivers a
good first scheme to them for consideration, then getting through
the advice’s and comments, and then completing a good design that
suits the site, surrounds, the budget, and works well as intended.

While saying
(a) "Read these rates in the context they were given guys",
I would also say, (b) this designer here does good work and has his costs
covered. - Has a good record with satisfied clients and successful planning application counts speak for them selves.

I find that these rates are the norm herewit hother engineers, and have also found that some Architects in Dublin are being out bid by
us westies and the clients are very happy with the end results.

Good thread guys,

A

muffler

Oh sweet mother of Jesus. What did I do to deserve this

Hi Guys,

Wow - those rates have sparked off the debate.:D

Please read those rates in context guys, they are rates for drafting plans. As per my last entry, these rates are not for planning applications.

For the most part I would agree with most of the replies above replies about getting value for money in a good design-works package.

However, I maintain that a lot of people are getting ripped off for what they are getting from some of the more larger, expensive firms.
I have seen a lot of planning contracts leave here in the region of €1500 to €2500 (Part of this would be the drafting of plans costing maybe €1000 or even €1800 with the site survey and application docs, OS Maps making the balance.)

I would agree with 'Sinner' in that alot of people come in here not knowing what they want, rather more wanting the right colour of the kitchen tiles.

A good designer listens to his/her clients brief and delivers a good first scheme to them for consideration, then getting through the advice’s and comments, and then completing a good design that suits the site, surrounds, the budget, and works well as intended.

While saying (a) "Read these rates in the context they were given guys", I would also say, (b) this designer here does good work and has his costs covered. - Has a good record with satisfied clients and successful planning application counts speak for them selves.

I find that these rates are the norm here with other engineers, and have also found that some Architects in Dublin are being out bid by us westies and the clients are very happy with the end results.

Good thread guys,

I done my best with this. Its an improvement anyhow.

AutoCAD, please dont type elsewhere and copy & paste to here. Type your reply in the text box using the default settings.

Mixupat

Cheers Lads. I am totally open to everything an architect may suggest and would gladly decide on a smaller well designed house. My thought is that 6.3K + VAT is a lot to spend but could be well worth it for a well designed house. I do not want something from a book of plans. The fee for the overall job to manage the build is 6% based on an overall budget of 300K is 18K which could well be reduced if house is smaller.

My questions are:
Is this standard?
Is 18K the agreed price even if the overall size of house is reduced to say 250 Sq. M?
Also, what are the benefits of using an architect for the overall project Vs an engineer.

If you are an architect based in the west (East Mayo or nearby!), please PM me as i'd like to have a look at your work as i'm totally open to ideas and will choose an architect in the next month or so. I really want a well designed house and understand this is worth paying for but 6.3K + Vat will stretch me.

AutoCAD

Muffler, - MS Word - sorry about that - only realised when I sent
the entry - sorry - new to this,

Word of Advise to Mixupat.

A Good architect is money well spent.
A Poor project manager will squander the value saved -
; Get a good design at the best cost you can
and make sure your happy with end result,
but dont skimp on the project manager costs.

A