Jingle Mail!!! Going bust

blue1980

I bought a property in Dublin in 2006/2007 for 326k. The value of that property has now plummeted in value. Similar properties in the most recent phase of the same development have being selling for about 100k less. I have finished pulling out my hair and am now considering a few options.

Firstly, I’m single and don’t live in Ireland so don’t actually need a place here. I get paid well, about 70k (net) a year, so I can afford to keep it but what is the point?? I’m renting it out at the moment (illegally) and the rent is covering my mortgage repayments of 1200euro. However this is interest only and will increase to 1700euro in a year’s time so I will have to make up the shortfall of 500euro a month.

I borrowed 280k and reckon when the dust settles I will be about 50-100k in negative equity not to mention the loss of the 45k in saving I put into it. I would have to make up the shortfall in the repayment every month for an asset that is worth allot less than what I paid for it, for probably the next 10 years. I want to cut my losses and let the bank take the hit. To give the bank the keys and tell them I can no longer meet the repayments, say goodbye and leave the country.

In the US they call it jingle mail. Where a person posts the keys of their property back to the bank and they say they have gone bust. I bank with an offshore bank that has nothing to do with my Irish lender.

How do I do this here in Ireland?
How will this affect me in the future?
Will they write it off as a bad debt and leave it at that or will they chase me for the rest of my days?
Will they try to access my money in foreign banks?
How long will I be blacklisted for and will that only be in Ireland??

Please advise.

Raskolnikov

If you do this and ever plan to come back to Ireland, you will be pursued for the shortfall between the mortgage and the selling price of the property.

If you leave the country forever, there isn't much chance that the Irish lender will be able to chase you for the outstanding amount.

AnCatDubh

I don't mean to sound harsh, but why screw the rest of us that will attempt to do what's right within the societal structure that we live within? or did I miss some thing here.

Ultimately, if you and others 'opt' to drop the banks in the sh*t it will be the rest of us who will pay. We are already paying for what the sub prime in far off places have done.

my advice is think of it as an investment for the future which will come good again.
Til then, you are a responsible adult. Don't take that responsibility lightly.

I hope it works out for you.

whizzbang

You may even need to leave Europe...

permanently.

Disclaimer: I'm not a financial advisor

In the states once the bank forecloses the former owner can escape with a with nothing more than a poor credit rating for a few years. This dates back to laws introduced after the great depression.

This is not the case in Ireland. You can be pursued through the courts for any shortfall. You can even go to jail for not paying the court imposed payments resulting!

So no you can't just post back the keys to the bank and get off scot free.

ZYX

I agree with AnCatDubh except for hoping it works out for you. I hope the taxman screws you.

Pa ElGrande

blue1980 wrote: »

How do I do this here in Ireland?

You don't, there is no provision in Ireland for this.
Irish bankruptcy laws are 19th century.

blue1980 wrote: »

How will this affect me in the future?

Who knows?, but you're going to have to keep looking over your shoulder.

blue1980 wrote: »

Will they write it off as a bad debt and leave it at that or will they chase me for the rest of my days?

They will probably sell it on to a debt collection agency for cents in the Euro, The agency will chase you for the debt and get to sell the property.
Some agencies can and do pursue you over multiple jurisdictions.

blue1980 wrote: »

Will they try to access my money in foreign banks?

I'm not aware of any legislation that allows them to do this, though with widening powers in the future, they could freeze your assets. Just as well we voted no to Lisbon....but that's another debate.

blue1980 wrote: »

How long will I be blacklisted for and will that only be in Ireland??
Please advise.

Bankruptcy in Ireland

blah

I know you're saying "what if I did this" and "woe is me, this is my situation "
But you're not the only one with this problem, and if you do"let the bank take the hit", it's not really the bank, they have customers who will have to bear higher interest rates and charges to make up for your fecklessness. You considered buying, listened to people saying "you can't lose on property, now's a great time to buy", ignored those who said "it's a bad idea to buy, property is overvalued" and made your decision. So you've made your bed, lie in it (in your overvalued apartment)

blah

It's worth noting that banking practice means that banks will loan much more than they actually hold in deposit. So it doesn't need every morgage holder to default on their loans, just some of them. This is why so many banks are failing at the moment.

Calina

blue1980 wrote: »

I bought a property in Dublin in 2006/2007 for 326k. The value of that property has now plummeted in value. Similar properties in the most recent phase of the same development have being selling for about 100k less. I have finished pulling out my hair and am now considering a few options.

So you made a bad investment at a time when voices were starting to get really loud about which way the property market can move.

blue1980 wrote: »

Firstly, I’m single and don’t live in Ireland so don’t actually need a place here. I get paid well, about 70k (net) a year, so I can afford to keep it but what is the point?? I’m renting it out at the moment (illegally) and the rent is covering my mortgage repayments of 1200euro. However this is interest only and will increase to 1700euro in a year’s time so I will have to make up the shortfall of 500euro a month.

Oh my God, and the tragic thing is you're probably not alone in this.

1) You bought to make money. Unfortunately the value of investments can go down as well as up. Yours is on its way down. Tough. But if you can technically pay for it, you're not technically bankrupt.

2) you're renting it out illegally - bang goes any sympathy I might have had for your plight. Tax issues. This country does not need tax dodging absentee landlords any more now than it did 200 years ago.

blue1980 wrote: »

I borrowed 280k and reckon when the dust settles I will be about 50-100k in negative equity not to mention the loss of the 45k in saving I put into it. I would have to make up the shortfall in the repayment every month for an asset that is worth allot less than what I paid for it, for probably the next 10 years. I want to cut my losses and let the bank take the hit. To give the bank the keys and tell them I can no longer meet the repayments, say goodbye and leave the country.

1) you want to cut your losses. So far okay. Sell the property. Oh - you don't want to face the 100K shortfall between your outstanding debt and likely property liquidation income. You want the bank to take responsibility for your bad investment. What planet do you think people here are on? Do you think that's even remotely fair to other people in the country and the banks and god knows I don't do sympathy for the banks but I've enjoyed not having to pay bank charges for a while.

blue1980 wrote: »

In the US they call it jingle mail. Where a person posts the keys of their property back to the bank and they say they have gone bust. I bank with an offshore bank that has nothing to do with my Irish lender.

I don't care. Jingle mail does not exist in Ireland.

blue1980 wrote: »

How do I do this here in Ireland?

You can't do it.

blue1980 wrote: »

How will this affect me in the future?

Credit record in tatters and with likely consolidation in the banking sector probably on a European level if you're anywhere there, you're in trouble.

blue1980 wrote: »

Will they write it off as a bad debt and leave it at that or will they chase me for the rest of my days?

They will liquidate your assets up to and including your pension as far as I know and chase you for the balance.

blue1980 wrote: »

Will they try to access my money in foreign banks?

Open to debate. Depends on the court system where you are and if they can find you which is increasingly easy.

blue1980 wrote: »

How long will I be blacklisted for and will that only be in Ireland??

I believe the legislation provides for 12 years but not expert there. Me personally I believe in paying my debts.

Please advise.[/QUOTE]

Sell the property and take the 145KE hit. That is the legal and moral answer.

AARRRGH

It really is only a matter of time before debt collection agencies look beyond Ireland for their debts, so I suspect this will come back to bite you, unless you plan to leave the EU forever.

If everyone was like you, and simply ran away from their problems, the world would be completely ****ed. Be a responsible human and clean up your mess.

dats_right

A lot of what has been stated so far has been inaccurate.

There is really very little practically that the bank can do if you just decide to hand in the keys one day and abscond from the jurisdiction. It is a civil matter, as you know you will be liable for any shortfall between sale price and outstanding mortgage/fees. The bank will probably obtain a judgement in this amount and seek to enforce it in other ways. e.g. if you have any other property in the jurisdiction they will register a judgement mortgage against it.

There are legal mechanisms for enforcing judgements obtained in one country in a different one. But in reality are rarely utilised against individuals, unless you are easily located and are a 'good mark' i.e. significant assets in another country, as banks are pragmatic and will not throw good money after bad if there is little prospect in recovering the debt. But are your foreign assets potentially at risk? The answer is yes.

Forced bankruptcy is not a runner from the banks perspective as it is very expensive and doesn't benefit them. Once a judgement is obtained against you the bank has 12 years to enforce it, before it becomes statute barred. If you intend returning to Ireland in this time (and the bank finds out) they can seek the normal debtor remedies e.g. installment, committal, etc. I'm not a banker, but I doubt whether this bank will ever deal with you again nor will any of its subsidiaries. Also credit in this jurisdiction will be a problem for a considerable period of time.

It's not actually as uncommon as you would think for someone just to 'do a runner' leaving the keys with the bank. That is one of the reasons why repossession levels in this country are lower than others. Although, it's always better to negotiate with the bank and seek their permission to sell the property yourself.

Pa ElGrande

We are in a once in a lifetime global economic depression and 18% unemployment by 2010 cannot now be considered out of the question. This event will lead to a surge in people abandoning property they can no longer afford, banks are going to take a hammering from developers failing, they will need to raise cash and will sell the property for whatever they can get, the remaining debt will be sold to a debt collection agency that will pursue you.

dats_right is correct in what he says, but I believe the scale of the collapse is such that banks will soon have little choice in the matter, they need cash. Also since the property is not the original posters principle primary residence, there will be no leniency shown.

Sadly, there are many people in the same boat as the original poster, some that even have multiple properties on IO mortgages across Britain and Ireland, they are now waking up to the fact that leverage feels great until it bankrupts them.

oceanclub

blue1980 wrote: »

I bought a property in Dublin in 2006/2007 for 326k.

So you stupidly bought at the very top of the market, after years of warning that prices were unsustainable, and now expect others to indirectly bail you out.

And we should have sympathy because...?

P.

Firetrap

I'll probably get slapped over the head for suggesting the OP is trolling. Something about that post doesn't ring true. And if it isn't, I'm sure it's not that easy to welch on your debts. You might be able to get away with it now but down the line you won't be able to get a car loan or buy another house.

mikemac

blue1980 wrote: »

I’m renting it out at the moment (illegally) and the rent is covering my mortgage repayments of 1200euro. However this is interest only and will increase to 1700euro in a year’s time so I will have to make up the shortfall of 500euro a month.

So you rent for €1200
Your tenant is supposed to be taking 20% off the rent for tax purposes afaik since you're abroad.
But even if they don't know this, you can be assured they will go looking for rent relief within 1 year of renting the place.
Sure who can turn down €350-€400 in these hard times? Maybe they will contact you or they'll probably go straight to the revenue looking for the rent relief.

So the revenue will soon learn what you're at and a hefty tax bill will be on it's way
The revenue don't give up, they got people with offshore accounts from the 80's and insurance products from the 90's.

Landlords who declare their PPR and then rent it out are the next big thing.
Sure they don't care if it takes 5-10-15 years to get you. Every year they are clocking up penalty interest.

shenanigans1982

blue1980 wrote: »

I bought a property in Dublin in 2006/2007 for 326k. The value of that property has now plummeted in value. Similar properties in the most recent phase of the same development have being selling for about 100k less. I have finished pulling out my hair and am now considering a few options.

Firstly, I’m single and don’t live in Ireland so don’t actually need a place here. I get paid well, about 70k (net) a year, so I can afford to keep it but what is the point?? I’m renting it out at the moment (illegally) and the rent is covering my mortgage repayments of 1200euro. However this is interest only and will increase to 1700euro in a year’s time so I will have to make up the shortfall of 500euro a month.

I borrowed 280k and reckon when the dust settles I will be about 50-100k in negative equity not to mention the loss of the 45k in saving I put into it. I would have to make up the shortfall in the repayment every month for an asset that is worth allot less than what I paid for it, for probably the next 10 years. I want to cut my losses and let the bank take the hit. To give the bank the keys and tell them I can no longer meet the repayments, say goodbye and leave the country.

In the US they call it jingle mail. Where a person posts the keys of their property back to the bank and they say they have gone bust. I bank with an offshore bank that has nothing to do with my Irish lender.

How do I do this here in Ireland?
How will this affect me in the future?
Will they write it off as a bad debt and leave it at that or will they chase me for the rest of my days?
Will they try to access my money in foreign banks?
How long will I be blacklisted for and will that only be in Ireland??

Please advise.

Best news I have heard all day, you got what you deserved. Best option is probably go back to pulling your hair out.

gurramok

Firetrap wrote: »

I'll probably get slapped over the head for suggesting the OP is trolling. Something about that post doesn't ring true. And if it isn't, I'm sure it's not that easy to welch on your debts. You might be able to get away with it now but down the line you won't be able to get a car loan or buy another house.

Yeh sounds it could be but it could also be true.

Note the 'interest only mortgage' part, this was widespread by BTL's especially on apts trying to make a fast buck during the bubble.

I've a feeling from the nature of these buyers, this is only the start of an avalanche to come.

jetski

shenanigans1982 wrote: »

Best news I have heard all day, you got what you deserved. Best option is probably go back to pulling your hair out.

Bet you wouldnt say that to his face :pac:

silverharp

Apologies for ressurecting this old thread but the article in the irish independant seemed to have a different spin on it

anyone care to comment



http://www.independent.ie/national-news/financial-crisis/the-dream-homes-that-turned-into-nightmares-1502903.html


"In most cases, where people hand back keys to us, there is no animosity," says Maurice Lyons. "They have made a calculated decision to walk away. By voluntarily giving up possession, they save on legal fees because there are no court proceedings. Their names won't end up on a court list and they avoid paying estate agent's fees, which are often requested in advance these days. They go back to their parents or start renting again. I know of one person who has moved into a mobile home.

Oshare Bones

Firetrap wrote: »

I'll probably get slapped over the head for suggesting the OP is trolling. Something about that post doesn't ring true. And if it isn't, I'm sure it's not that easy to welch on your debts. You might be able to get away with it now but down the line you won't be able to get a car loan or buy another house.

I bought a property in Dublin in 2006/2007 for 326k.

How do you buy a property in 2006/2007? Surely with such a big financial investment, you would at least remember what year it was.

the_syco

blue1980 wrote: »

Thank you. I'm ****ing out of here..... And to all the other unhelpful poster **** you too and i hope you end up picking up the pieces.

Check if it depends on the bank. Good luck, and may ye have better luck reading the tea leaves in the future. No-one can see into the future, but hindsight is 20/20.

bugler

silverharp wrote: »

Apologies for ressurecting this old thread but the article in the irish independant seemed to have a different spin on it

anyone care to comment



http://www.independent.ie/national-news/financial-crisis/the-dream-homes-that-turned-into-nightmares-1502903.html


"In most cases, where people hand back keys to us, there is no animosity," says Maurice Lyons. "They have made a calculated decision to walk away. By voluntarily giving up possession, they save on legal fees because there are no court proceedings. Their names won't end up on a court list and they avoid paying estate agent's fees, which are often requested in advance these days. They go back to their parents or start renting again. I know of one person who has moved into a mobile home.

The article you reference is exceptionally badly structured. The whole tone of it implies that by handing back the keys you're free. But this little gem lurks in the middle of all that:

""We go in and take advice from an estate agent as to the best way to sell the property. The bank becomes the mortgagee-in-possession, but not the registered owner. After we sell the house, and money is still owed, there's a contract debt outstanding which we can sue the owner for."

You can't just walk away in Ireland.

ParkRunner

bugler wrote: »

You can't just walk away in Ireland.

The person who flees wouldnt be left to pay the debt though, it would be the new owner according to that article. The article also starts with In most cases

The_Conductor

EF wrote: »

The person who flees wouldnt be left to pay the debt though, it would be the new owner according to that article. The article also starts with In most cases

How do you make out that it would be the new owner left to pay the debt? If that was the case, it would simply be factored into the sale price they purchase the property at- with a net zero effect. The mortgage is a lien on the property- until such time as the lien has been satisfied it is attached to the property, certainly. However the original owner can still be held responsible for the outstanding debt- as it would be considered to be a contract debt, rather than a mortgage, following the sale of the property by the mortgage providor, and could be either sold on as an asset (depending on the perceived value of the debt), or chased via a debt recovery company.

bangersandmash

EF wrote: »

The person who flees wouldnt be left to pay the debt though, it would be the new owner according to that article. The article also starts with In most cases

Can't see that in the article. Is it not suggesting the bank will sue the previous owner for whatever is owed after the sale?

The bank becomes the mortgagee-in-possession, but not the registered owner. After we sell the house, and money is still owed, there's a contract debt outstanding which we can sue the owner for.

The_Conductor

blue1980 wrote: »

Thank you. I'm ****ing out of here..... And to all the other unhelpful poster **** you too and i hope you end up picking up the pieces.

I have allowed blue1980 access once again. Any abusive behaviour or personal comments (from anyone) will result in bannings without warning.

Regards,

SMcCarrick

El Stuntman

smccarrick wrote: »

I have allowed blue1980 access once again.

er, why?

loyatemu

EF wrote: »

The person who flees wouldnt be left to pay the debt though, it would be the new owner according to that article. The article also starts with In most cases

of course its the defaulter who is left in debt - why would someone purchase a house if they had to pay someone elses debt on top of it?

blue1980, you yourself have stated that you still have a well paying job and that you are letting the house out. essentially you are an investor who made a bad decision - there is no comparison with with the many genuinely unlucky families who have lost their jobs and are facing repossession...

Fatloss08

Calina wrote: »

2) you're renting it out illegally - bang goes any sympathy I might have had for your plight. Tax issues. This country does not need tax dodging absentee landlords any more now than it did 200 years ago.
.

why give them tax on your property at all ???? its your property of which your paying back on a €300k mortgage around €700k

i think were being screwed enough , and paying for our governments and banks mistakes

if it was my house , id never declare it for tax

sorry slap me all you want , but as long as im getting the mortgage paid they should be happy

always looking to bend u over a rock without lube

blue1980

Hello again, firstly I’d like to apologise for my previous outburst. I had received so many negative, childish and unhelpful responses that I was a little distressed. Anyway just to clear up a few things. I am not trolling. I bought the property in late 2006. My tenants are my friends and they will not be going to the revenue for their tax back. I am not a wealthy landlord. It was my intention to live in the property but my work has taken me abroad and will be remaining abroad for the foreseeable future.

Most of the initial responses were childish scare mongering. If you think for one minute that I should feel some sort of moral obligation not to leave the bank in the **** then you must be joking. They have done exactly what I intend to do, except of course on a massive scale. I (foolishly) leveraged too much as did they. Now they are screwed and are letting someone else take the hit (Irish Taxpayer) as will I (the bank).

The idea that the bank will follow me across Irish boarders to claw back the shortfall is laughable considering that we are on the verge of an avalanche of repossessions. Besides I have no assets abroad.

I believe that over the next few years we will see many many thousands of repossessions. Not just from (out of their depth) first time buyers but also all the thousands of people who stepped up the ladder. I do feel sorry for all the families that will have to go through this. However I also feel I can take advantage of this situation by offloading my devalued property and start again. I know this attitude upsets allot of people but to be honest I don’t really care. My initial post was aimed at getting info on the viability of such an option and not to receive a lesson on my moral obligations to society…………

Fatloss08

if your minds made up then best of luck

ZYX

blue1980 wrote: »

They have done exactly what I intend to do, except of course on a massive scale. I (foolishly) leveraged too much as did they. Now they are screwed and are letting someone else take the hit (Irish Taxpayer) as will I (the bank).

…

However the bank does not "take the hit". They pass it on to their customers. ie the rest of us. You bought after property prices started falling. Even the dogs on the street were saying prices would fall further. You took a very foolish risk and lost. That is your fault not the banks.

Calina

blue1980 wrote: »

Most of the initial responses were childish scare mongering. If you think for one minute that I should feel some sort of moral obligation not to leave the bank in the **** then you must be joking.

Actually, I disagree with this. It is not childish to suggest that people who borrow money should repay the sums they borrowed. It is childish to assume that you have the right to walk away from your obligations because they didn't turn out right for you. You should feel a moral obligation to repay your debts; your obligations.

Otherwise, why should anyone ever repay you monies or sums that are owed to you?

ParkRunner

After we sell the house, and money is still owed, there's a contract debt outstanding which we can sue the owner for.

Sorry maybe I got that wrong. From what I read it meant AFTER the house is sold by the banks, there's a contract debt outstanding which we can sue the OWNER for. The person who owns the house after the sale will not be the original buyer but I see the point regarding the contract debt.

SimpleSam06

blue1980 wrote: »

The idea that the bank will follow me across Irish boarders to claw back the shortfall is laughable considering that we are on the verge of an avalanche of repossessions.

With the effect that international terrorism has had on the psyche of the US in particular, it has become increasingly difficult to simply vanish away across the borders. In the case of fraud for example, I have seen banks pursue people from one end of the world to the other. Then again, maybe you will get lucky and vanish in the mob of defaulters you hope are descending upon us.

Then again, you might not.

blue1980 wrote: »

Besides I have no assets abroad

Your current and future earnings qualify as assets to the banks.

The_Conductor

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Your current and future earnings qualify as assets to the banks.

As does any pension contributions you or your employer may have made, or may make in the future. Normally its simply a garnishing of salary/wages though.

bangersandmash

blue1980 wrote: »

They have done exactly what I intend to do, except of course on a massive scale. I (foolishly) leveraged too much as did they. Now they are screwed and are letting someone else take the hit (Irish Taxpayer) as will I (the bank).

Your analogy looks flawed. As ZYX points out, in both cases the Irish taxpayers you leave behind will take the hit. Either through increased banking charges, increased mortgage rates for new buyers, or quite possibly as a result of a bailout of a government guaranteed bank that gets into difficulty after giving loans to those who cannot or will not repay what they owe.

You say you don't care that you have upset or incensed people, and then complain that you're not receiving valuable advice from the same people?

blue1980

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

With the effect that international terrorism has had on the psyche of the US in particular, it has become increasingly difficult to simply vanish away across the borders. In the case of fraud for example, I have seen banks pursue people from one end of the world to the other. Then again, maybe you will get lucky and vanish in the mob of defaulters you hope are descending upon us..

International terrorism.... This is what I meant by childish replies. Do you really believe banks will go to all that trouble to get back 80k - 100k. I'm not committing fraud, I'm failing to repay a debt. They are not going to throw good money after bad. You are living in a fantasy land.

Calina wrote: »

Actually, I disagree with this. It is not childish to suggest that people who borrow money should repay the sums they borrowed. It is childish to assume that you have the right to walk away from your obligations because they didn't turn out right for you. You should feel a moral obligation to repay your debts; your obligations.

Otherwise, why should anyone ever repay you monies or sums that are owed to you?

I do not think it is childish to repay debts at all. I have always repaid my debts prior to my current situation. I felt the replies which said i could go to prison were childish.


If I had come on here and said I had lost my job and was about to lose my house and was wondering what the long term implications would be, I bet you all would have been oozing with sympathy and giving me the number to the citizens fu8king advice bureau. The bottom line is the repercussions for all those poor families will be the same as the repercussions for me. The banks will have no idea of my real financial situation. With the thousands of repossessions that are on the way and that have already started the banks will, at some stage, have to draw a line in the sand and write these debts off. Or do you think all those poor families will never be allowed to get back on their feet again???

It may not be the most socially responsible thing I have ever done , but does make allot of sense to my personal finances and financial future.

caff

blue1980 wrote: »

International terrorism.... This is what I meant by childish replies. Do you really believe banks will go to all that trouble to get back 80k - 100k. I'm not committing fraud, I'm failing to repay a debt. They are not going to throw good money after bad. You are living in a fantasy land.

Eh its those same terrorist laws they are using in the uk already to grab money off the icelandic banks.. its really not too far fetched

blue1980

caff wrote: »

Eh its those same terrorist laws they are using in the uk already to grab money off the icelandic banks.. its really not too far fetched

For Fu8ksakes.

SimpleSam06

blue1980 wrote: »

International terrorism.... This is what I meant by childish replies. Do you really believe banks will go to all that trouble to get back 80k - 100k. I'm not committing fraud, I'm failing to repay a debt. They are not going to throw good money after bad. You are living in a fantasy land.

Sorry now, to clarify my comment, far reaching and powerful agreements have been put in place to track terrorists since the attack on the twin towers and the transfer of funds of one sort or another, and the banks are quite capable of taking advantage of these to track defaulters.

We're living in a smaller world than we used to.

If you want to take your chances I sincerely sympathise with your situation, and you might even get away with it if you don't plan on coming back for some years, but consider long and hard the possiblities of toughing it out here, selling at a loss, and swallowing the difference. It might be the best move, and you'll probably be able to work something out with the banks. It needn't ruin your life.

blah

Sure give it a shot, I'd be interested to see who's right or who's wrong.

jmayo

blue1980 wrote: »

Hello again, firstly I’d like to apologise for my previous outburst. I had received so many negative, childish and unhelpful responses that I was a little distressed. Anyway just to clear up a few things. I am not trolling. I bought the property in late 2006. My tenants are my friends and they will not be going to the revenue for their tax back. I am not a wealthy landlord. It was my intention to live in the property but my work has taken me abroad and will be remaining abroad for the foreseeable future.

Most of the initial responses were childish scare mongering. If you think for one minute that I should feel some sort of moral obligation not to leave the bank in the **** then you must be joking. They have done exactly what I intend to do, except of course on a massive scale. I (foolishly) leveraged too much as did they. Now they are screwed and are letting someone else take the hit (Irish Taxpayer) as will I (the bank).

... My initial post was aimed at getting info on the viability of such an option and not to receive a lesson on my moral obligations to society…………

So if you normally don't get a positive response to your questions do you tell people to f*** off ?
What helpful response were you hoping for?
Perhaps somebody should have given you the address of the bank PO box to mail the keys to ?
You wanted info on the viability of running away and leaving someone else holding the can. That's sweet :rolleyes:
You expect people to tell you fair enough off you go, we (the rest of us bank customers) will cover your debts, sure you made a mistake and we all make those.
We can all make bad judgements that cost us money, but should we expect others to pay for them :mad:
You do.
Did anybody force you to buy, did the bank force you to buy ?
You have some idea that the bank is them, some entity that exists but doesn't affect other people like for example it's customers.

This reminds me of the time that Eircom shares dropped in value, you had people asking for the money they lost to be refunded.
Would you have been prepared to pay more tax so that those people could get their losses back ?
I bet the answer is NO.

There is a thing called responsibility, although it seems you are probably of a generation that believe responsibility is nothing to do with you.
Sure we have learnt that from our political and economic leaders, nobody is responsible for anything anymore.

President Harry Truman had a sign on his desk that said "the buck stops here" and it's about time that motto was tattooed on a few foreheads around in this country.

Of course you can tell me f off and you don't care what anyone thinks.

bobbysands81

blue1980 wrote: »

I am not a wealthy landlord.

You are.

You earn 70k net which works out at over 2k a week gross. That is wealthy in anyone's book.

Paulw

blue1980 wrote: »

Do you really believe banks will go to all that trouble to get back 80k - 100k.

I have always repaid my debts prior to my current situation. I felt the replies which said i could go to prison were childish.

It may not be the most socially responsible thing I have ever done , but does make allot of sense to my personal finances and financial future.

Yes, currently the banks (worldwide) will make every possible effort to recover a loss like this. They will take legal action, to the fullest extent, and that may include prison time, if you fail to abide by the court's decision.

Of course, your sending back the keys, etc, may seem to free you up from your debt now, but banks these days have far and international reaching ways to recover debt. You will be taking a very big risk, which may cause you more harm than good.

Have you actually contacted the bank, and discussed your mortgage and financial situation?? It might be a good step.

gemmaod

I am a journalist with a national newspaper interviewing people who are abandoning their homes and leaving the country. Would you be willing to tell me your story?

blue1980 wrote: »

I bought a property in Dublin in 2006/2007 for 326k. The value of that property has now plummeted in value. Similar properties in the most recent phase of the same development have being selling for about 100k less. I have finished pulling out my hair and am now considering a few options.

Firstly, I’m single and don’t live in Ireland so don’t actually need a place here. I get paid well, about 70k (net) a year, so I can afford to keep it but what is the point?? I’m renting it out at the moment (illegally) and the rent is covering my mortgage repayments of 1200euro. However this is interest only and will increase to 1700euro in a year’s time so I will have to make up the shortfall of 500euro a month.

I borrowed 280k and reckon when the dust settles I will be about 50-100k in negative equity not to mention the loss of the 45k in saving I put into it. I would have to make up the shortfall in the repayment every month for an asset that is worth allot less than what I paid for it, for probably the next 10 years. I want to cut my losses and let the bank take the hit. To give the bank the keys and tell them I can no longer meet the repayments, say goodbye and leave the country.

In the US they call it jingle mail. Where a person posts the keys of their property back to the bank and they say they have gone bust. I bank with an offshore bank that has nothing to do with my Irish lender.

How do I do this here in Ireland?
How will this affect me in the future?
Will they write it off as a bad debt and leave it at that or will they chase me for the rest of my days?
Will they try to access my money in foreign banks?
How long will I be blacklisted for and will that only be in Ireland??

Please advise.

Paulw

gemmaod wrote: »

I am a journalist with a national newspaper interviewing people who are abandoning their homes and leaving the country. Would you be willing to tell me your story?

Since the original post is over a year old, they may have already left.

stepbar

gemmaod wrote: »

I am a journalist with a national newspaper interviewing people who are abandoning their homes and leaving the country. Would you be willing to tell me your story?

Are you stuck for news Gemma?

Senna

gemmaod wrote: »

I am a journalist with a national newspaper interviewing people who are abandoning their homes and leaving the country. Would you be willing to tell me your story?

Hard days work for you today, go to boards, click search, type in whatever random topic your working on, drag up thread from a year ago, job done. Let me guess....Indo?

stepbar

Senna wrote: »

Hard days work for you today, go to boards, click search, type in whatever random topic your working on, drag up thread from a year ago, job done. Let me guess....Indo?

Hole in one.