Is there room for a Liberal party in Ireland?

The_Minister

As above.

By this I mean an economically and socially liberal party (if you think for instance that Mill's liberalism would take better then feel free to compare the different types of liberalism:)).

sink

I was previously a supporter of the PD's even though I didn't follow exactly the same school of liberalism. So I would be a supporter if another liberal party took their place. I don't think a significant amount other people would be interested as we are generally a cynical bunch who prefer to moan about politics then actually take a stance and get involved.

Darragh29

sink wrote: »

I was previously a supporter of the PD's even though I didn't follow exactly the same school of liberalism. So I would be a supporter if another liberal party took their place. I don't think a significant amount other people would be interested as we are generally a cynical bunch who prefer to moan about politics then actually take a stance and get involved.

Well could you suggest a manifesto for such a party at the next election. We are in curious times at the moment, so how could a new liberal party deal with our current situation and benefit us into the future???

I used to vote FF, I haven't voted for them in around 10-15 years, I couldn't give FG a vote because Enda Kenny and the general Fg leadership didn't inspire me at all, so for the last few elections I wouldn't vote for FF or the PD's because I didn't see a difference between them, FG just seemed rudderless, I didn't see anything in labour so I was kind of running out of options, so I picked indy candidates where I could or just registered a single protest vote for someone I thought was the best of a bad lot but not party sponsored.

sink

Darragh29 wrote: »

Well could you suggest a manifesto for such a party at the next election. We are in curious times at the moment, so how could a new liberal party deal with our current situation and benefit us into the future???

The current situation is not entirely the result of our government so there are no quick fixes. The best we can do is ride out the storm by cutting government spending by freezing pay for all the civil service and the government itself. In the longer term there are many reforms needed but they all require politicians with more zeal and it's up to us individually to properly vet who we vote for at a local level instead of just voting along party lines.

We need to improve regulation for the property sector as it needs to be more transparent. Currently the final selling price of a house is not public knowledge unless it goes to auction. Individual realtor's guard their knowledge of real house prices rents and exaggerate market conditions in order to inflate the asking price and this contributed to the property bubble. The government should legislate to force estate agents to publish their real sales price records. This would allow private companies to coagulate the data and publish reports showing the real property trends decreasing speculative buying and promoting fairer competition. The same goes for the renting and letting markets.

There are many other areas that need reform but i'm not going to go through them now as it's late.

SkepticOne

I would like to see a party that stands against cronyism and pandering to vested interests and unions. The current climate of economic uncertainty, however, works against this and people will seek to be protected by government, rather than have government create an environment where people can better help themselves but otherwise get out of the way.

nesf

I want there to be one, but honestly it's rare that I find another person who is similar in political leaning to me so I'm not sure how viable one is. Perhaps, it's more likely that there might be a liberal wing in either FG and/or FF but I'm not sure how comfortable either party would be with groups within not always following the party line.

Belfast

No, I do not think there is much chance for any new political party of any type in Ireland.
We may complain about the main political parties, it seems to we are going to keep voting for them

Do we need new a political party ?

Yes

is it going to happen?

No.

personally I favour a new Libertarian party lead by some one like Ron Paul, but it is not going to happen.

magick

no way, we are far too PC as it is already

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

magick wrote: »

no way, we are far too PC as it is already

this guy gets it.

Belfast

There is one way a new political party would stand a chance.

Ban all the present parties and those who have been elected and their associates or family members before, on the basis that the present parties are the one who got us in to the mess we are in.

The idea is to get fresh blood in to politics.

The last time the political classes were wiped out in Ireland was the election of 1918 when the home rule party were almost wiped out.

Not that I think this idea is stands any chance.

I cannot see the turkeys voting for Christmas.

Mean time in the real world we are stuck with Tweedle Dumb and Tweedle Dumber (Fianna fail , Fianna Gael and Labour).

As Henry Ford said you can have any colour you like as long as it is Black.

ChocolateSauce

I wouldn't vote for a party based on their economics if it resembeled the PD's.

I'd vote for a socially liberal party that advocated same-sex marraige, legalised drugs, abortion, greater freedom of speech, smaller government, etc. Essentially the liberal democrats of Britian would be the ideal template.

irish_bob

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

I wouldn't vote for a party based on their economics if it resembeled the PD's.

I'd vote for a socially liberal party that advocated same-sex marraige, legalised drugs, abortion, greater freedom of speech, smaller government, etc. Essentially the liberal democrats of Britian would be the ideal template.

yes but the op means a liberal party in ireland , not the netherlands , no one in ireland would vote for a party who espoused those policys , well what i mean is , this presumed party would not get enough votes in even 1 constituency to elect a td

oscarBravo

And yet, Ming Flanagan got elected to Roscommon Council. Never say never...

The_Minister

oscarBravo wrote: »

And yet, Ming Flanagan got elected to Roscommon Council. Never say never...

Have you ever met him?

One of the biggest ******s ever. Incredibly rude and insulting man.

EDIT: But I get your point.

Just to clarify, I'm referring to an economically and socially liberal party.

oscarBravo

The_Minister wrote: »

Have you ever met him?

Briefly, once. He was on his best behaviour.

ChocolateSauce

irish_bob wrote: »

yes but the op means a liberal party in ireland , not the netherlands , no one in ireland would vote for a party who espoused those policys , well what i mean is , this presumed party would not get enough votes in even 1 constituency to elect a td

The majority of my friends would. I understand that of course being a radical liberal means I tend to seek the company of others like me, but to say they'd get no support isn't true. I think if they stood up and said "these are our policies, like them or not" they'd impress a lot of people with their honesty and integrety, something FF and FG do not have. I consider social policy more important that economic policy, so I would vote for a party that was further right than I would like if they suited my other criteria well enough. The young PD's advocate the legalisation of drugs, abortion, etc, and even though I am not impressed with their economics, and even though I HATE Mary Harney and Michael McDowell (thank god he's gone), I would vote PD if they were anything like the young PD branch.

I can always aspire for Ireland to be The Netherlands.

Speer

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

I wouldn't vote for a party based on their economics if it resembeled the PD's.

I'd vote for a socially liberal party that advocated same-sex marraige, legalised drugs, abortion, greater freedom of speech, smaller government, etc. Essentially the liberal democrats of Britian would be the ideal template.

You'd like to see the end of western civilization and the destruction of the family.How do people arrive at your kind of beliefs.I'm baffled.

irish_bob

The_Minister wrote: »

Have you ever met him?

One of the biggest ******s ever. Incredibly rude and insulting man.

EDIT: But I get your point.

Just to clarify, I'm referring to an economically and socially liberal party.

we already had one of those partys , they went out of business in the last week

turgon

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

I'd vote for a socially liberal party that advocated same-sex marraige, legalised drugs, abortion, greater freedom of speech, smaller government, etc. Essentially the liberal democrats of Britian would be the ideal template.

To which was replyed:

Speer wrote: »

You'd like to see the end of western civilization and the destruction of the family.How do people arrive at your kind of beliefs.I'm baffled.

Well, I personally think that second comment a bit over the top (assuming your not being sarcastic!). Im neither for or agianst same sex marraige - if two women get married it doesnt exactly have any negative effect on my life (or the lives of others for that fact), so why should I be anti it?

Im "pro-choice" as it were, if the parents are having a kid when they dont want it, how can they really be very good parents?? Also I dont really see how you can be both "anti-choice" and pro birth control measures which a lot of people seem to be.

Freedom of speech - well one could hardly claim its curtailed in Ireland.

Not so much for a smaller state as I would be for a more efficient state. Im a big supporter of the welfare state but like so many feel it is abused.

Im very anti-drugs and antil legalization. But saying that I dont see how legalization would cause some kind of apocalypse.

SO I dont really see how these measures would see the "end of western civilization". Abortion all the way. And nuclear power too.

The_Minister

irish_bob wrote: »

we already had one of those partys , they went out of business in the last week

I know, but tbh, most Irish people didn't realise that that was what they were (and due to certain people in the party they didn't always act that way). I'm wondering if a party was started off, with the word "liberal" plastered everywhere, would people go for it, or would they scream "abortion!!11!" and jump into the nearest bush?

irish_bob

The_Minister wrote: »

I know, but tbh, most Irish people didn't realise that that was what they were (and due to certain people in the party they didn't always act that way). I'm wondering if a party was started off, with the word "liberal" plastered everywhere, would people go for it, or would they scream "abortion!!11!" and jump into the nearest bush?[/QUOTE

a new party wouldnt fare any better than other new small partys that were born in the past 30 yrs , as ive said before , the vast vast majority of people in this country ( especially outside dublin ) vote for whichever party thier parents , grand parents and and on back , voted for

pH

I'd certainly vote for a liberal party, in fact 2 elections ago I actually asked every candidate/representative who they thought was the most liberal candidate/party as I'd be voting for them - ended up with Austin Currie telling me that some people needed laws "to protect them from themselves", I remember telling him that chucking someone in a sh*thole like mountjoy was a strange way of protecting them.

Ended up voting green, as they appeared to be as liberal as it gets round my way.

irish_bob

pH wrote: »

I'd certainly vote for a liberal party, in fact 2 elections ago I actually asked every candidate/representative who they thought was the most liberal candidate/party as I'd be voting for them - ended up with Austin Currie telling me that some people needed laws "to protect them from themselves", I remember telling him that chucking someone in a sh*thole like mountjoy was a strange way of protecting them.

Ended up voting green, as they appeared to be as liberal as it gets round my way.

are you saying you are opposed to people being imprisoned

pH

irish_bob wrote: »

are you saying you are opposed to people being imprisoned

I'm certainly opposed to imprisoning someone to "protect him from himself".

ChocolateSauce

turgon wrote: »

Well, I personally think that second comment a bit over the top (assuming your not being sarcastic!). Im neither for or agianst same sex marraige - if two women get married it doesnt exactly have any negative effect on my life (or the lives of others for that fact), so why should I be anti it?

No, I'm not being sarcastic here!

Freedom of speech - well one could hardly claim its curtailed in Ireland.

I claim it is. There are some things which cannot be said. For example, the anti-hate speech law is a violation of freedom of speech. It isn't as bad here as it is in Britain though. Another example, as long as the film censors office (recently renamed to appease people like me) has the legal power to edit or ban anything, that is supression of freedom of speech. As long as there is a single book, game, movie or pogrom that I cannot experience, that is supression of freedom of speech.

Not so much for a smaller state as I would be for a more efficient state. Im a big supporter of the welfare state but like so many feel it is abused.

I'm also a welfare state supporter, to an extent. Better to have than not, but I was thinking more alone the lines of the government being allowed to interfere with the lives of citizens. It took a hand in the X case, where it assumed guardianship of a girl and forbade her to leave the state. I think that should be illegal.

Im very anti-drugs and antil legalization. But saying that I dont see how legalization would cause some kind of apocalypse.

I'm pro for soft drugs only, of course. Alcohol is much much more dangerous than dope, as is tobacco. I don't think the government or my neighbours have any business telling me what I can and can't do in my home.

SO I dont really see how these measures would see the "end of western civilization". Abortion all the way. And nuclear power too.

Yeah, end of western civ? Quite a statement. Maybe this person meant the end of Christendom? That certainly is happening. Go nuclear power!

ChocolateSauce

pH wrote: »

I'm certainly opposed to imprisoning someone to "protect him from himself".

What a ghastly concept! The big nanny brother state gone...well, right, because that's what those kinds of states do.

Best put me behind bars, I don't know what's good for me. Some catholic TD surely knows better...he's in government!

Jack Sheehan

I personally don't think that there is room for a truly Liberal Party in Ireland. I wouldn't mind seeing them but I think that Irish politics has moved so far into the centre that a party wearing left wing ideology on their sleeves would not get enough votes to be viable.

lostexpectation

but surely there is a need for non 'civil-war', non haughyist/bertyist/burkyist, party

Jack Sheehan

lostexpectation wrote: »

but surely there is a need for non 'civil-war', non haughyist/bertyist/burkyist, party

While there may be a need for it there may not be a sustainable amount of votes for it.

spank_inferno

Is there room for a liberal party in Ireland?
Considering Irelands only liberal party, the PD's are about to go out of business I'm not so sure.

Soldie

spank_inferno wrote: »

Is there room for a liberal party in Ireland?
Considering Irelands only liberal party, the PD's are about to go out of business I'm not so sure.

I'm a liberal and I didn't vote for them - I found them a little bit too right-wing for my taste.

I really wish there was a more 'social-liberal' party in Ireland, the current government and opposition are a joke. I'm interested in joining a party, if only there were one to match my ideologies...

irish_bob

Soldie wrote: »

I'm a liberal and I didn't vote for them - I found them a little bit too right-wing for my taste.

I really wish there was a more 'social-liberal' party in Ireland, the current government and opposition are a joke. I'm interested in joining a party, if only there were one to match my ideologies...

in what way did you find the pd,s too right wing , was it michael mcdowell , thier was a perception out there that he was very right wing , most of it was based on the mans demeanor and personality rather than policy

Soldie

irish_bob wrote: »

in what way did you find the pd,s too right wing , was it michael mcdowell , thier was a perception out there that he was very right wing , most of it was based on the mans demeanor and personality rather than policy

In the sense that I don't entirely agree with their economic policy. I favour a (not overly) regulated free market as opposed to a laissez-faire free market. I don't trust that everything will be 'sorted out' or provided if the private sector is left to its own devices.

The_Minister

Soldie wrote: »

In the sense that I don't entirely agree with their economic policy. I favour a (not overly) regulated free market as opposed to a laissez-faire free market. I don't trust that everything will be 'sorted out' or provided if the private sector is left to its own devices.

That's what the PDs believed......

Why do you think they brought in the minimum wage.

SeanW

The_Minister wrote: »

Have you ever met him?

One of the biggest ******s ever. Incredibly rude and insulting man.

EDIT: But I get your point.

Just to clarify, I'm referring to an economically and socially liberal party.

You mean like a left-libertarian party? I'd vote for a combo like that in a cold minute.

lostexpectation

lets us remind us that our former president said mcdowell's referendum was low point in irish history

Soldie

The_Minister wrote: »

That's what the PDs believed......

Why do you think they brought in the minimum wage.

Be that as it may, they're still far more market liberal than they are social liberal. Sure even Bertie called himself the last socialist in Irish politics - it doesn't make him one!

I don't consider a party that advocates the marketing of basics like healthcare and education to be social liberal. The PDs supported privatisation a bit too much for me. I'm aware that they didn't support outright privatisation, but they've had a minister for health for 4 years who has done nothing. I can't say Mary Harney made them any more lucrative to vote for.

spank_inferno

The PD's were Irelands only mainstream socialy liberal party!

How many parties favoured the right of a woman to choose regarding abortion? the PD's did.

The couldnt advance their social agenda much simply because they have always been a junior coalition partner & they have to compromse.

People here are confusing Liberalism with being left wing!
left wing/Socialism is very very different from liberalism

irish_bob

lostexpectation wrote: »

lets us remind us that our former president said mcdowell's referendum was low point in irish history

let me guess , mary robinson said that , that referendum was wanted by the people more than perhaps anyother one in history , eventually someone would have had to call for it , the people voted in overwhelming numbers in favour of the proposal
mary robinson , great a woman as she is , hasnt a bulls notion what the average voter thinks or wants

O'Morris

I would like to see the creation of a liberal party in Ireland, but only because it would likely lead to the creation of a right-wing, conservative party in response.

Soldie

spank_inferno wrote: »

The PD's were Irelands only mainstream socialy liberal party!

How many parties favoured the right of a woman to choose regarding abortion? the PD's did.

The couldnt advance their social agenda much simply because they have always been a junior coalition partner & they have to compromse.

People here are confusing Liberalism with being left wing!
left wing/Socialism is very very different from liberalism

The PD's are more classic/market liberal than social liberal.

In spite of that, there is some truth in what you say - the PD's are Ireland's 'most' social liberal party, but that's only because no real social liberal party exists.

turgon

Soldie wrote: »

no real social liberal party exists.

Unfortunately.

LordSutch

Whats Jeremy Thorpe doing these days

Prof.Badass

spank_inferno wrote: »

How many parties favoured the right of a woman to choose regarding abortion? the PD's did.

People here are confusing Liberalism with being left wing!
left wing/Socialism is very very different from liberalism

Ahh, but abortion isn't really anything to do with liberalism. It's saying that the unborn don't have a right to life. whichever way you argue, it's outside of both liberalism and authoritarianism. You could easily be socially liberal and oppose abortion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarians_For_Life

Ireland really does need a liberal party. I really believe they would get a lot of votes. The might not get voted in but they'd provide much need balance to Irish politics.

gregpent

I do believe a liberal party is on its way in the immediate future.:)

Lockstep

Meh, I'd like to see a social liberal party in Ireland. Liberal Democrats etc.


I dislike economic liberalism so never had any time for the PDs.

trailerparkboy

What we need in Ireland is a right wing party that will put the interests of Irish people first.

ionix5891

if they are "liberal" enough to help legalise cannabis as the dutch counterparts have done

then yes this liberal party will certainly go far, especially among the young :cool:

this could also open a new "tourism" industry of brits coming to ireland for a smoke, whether thats good or bad i dunno (better than drunk stag party tourism trend lately i suppose) we certainly need the money as a country and this could be a lucrative tax item

.

ionix5891

trailerparkboy wrote: »

What we need in Ireland is a right wing party that will put the interests of Irish people first.

i dont know about rightwingers, the word has bad implications/memories thanks to W

lostexpectation

arn't the greens now more clearly a liberal party.

djpbarry

trailerparkboy wrote: »

What we need in Ireland is a right wing party that will put the interests of Irish people first.

We have (at least) one - they have virtually no support.