Diet pills? yay or nay

Southern Dandy

I was contemplating using a "diet pills" to strip the fat from my body a bit quicker, now im not on about the meal supressors but the thermagenic one's that speeds your up your metabolism enabling you to burn more etc...

Does anyone have any idea about these and if so do they work with a weight training program well? im not trying to lose weight but get more muscle definition, im also take protein and glutamine if that makes a difference

cheers

zAbbo

Do some research on the ECA stack, although epherdrine is now a banned substance, but I'm sure someone else will come along with better advice on cutting.

EileenG

Thermogenics like ECA have a small useful effect, it's still 95% diet and exercise. The most common and cheapest thermo is caffeine, either in pill form or just as a double expresso before you hit the gym.

If you are using a thermo then you definitely should be dieting and lifting weights too. If you don't the results are tiny compared with the control group.

If you already have decent muscle, and just want more definition, you can often do it by manipulating your hydration levels.

Hanley

zAbbo wrote: »

Do some research on the ECA stack, although epherdrine is now a banned substance, but I'm sure someone else will come along with better advice on cutting.

You're not seriously suggesting ephedrine, I hope??

Southern Dandy

Hanley wrote: »

You're not seriously suggesting ephedrine, I hope??

Whats ephendrine? the brand i was thinking of using is "EAS CLA diet pills" if thats good to anyone

Southern Dandy

EileenG wrote: »

Thermogenics like ECA have a small useful effect, it's still 95% diet and exercise. The most common and cheapest thermo is caffeine, either in pill form or just as a double expresso before you hit the gym.

If you are using a thermo then you definitely should be dieting and lifting weights too. If you don't the results are tiny compared with the control group.

If you already have decent muscle, and just want more definition, you can often do it by manipulating your hydration levels.

Hey eileen, what do you mean by manipulating my hydration levels? just my water intake is it?

EileenG

Southern Dandy wrote: »

Whats ephendrine? the brand i was thinking of using is "EAS CLA diet pills" if thats good to anyone

CLA is a type of fatty acid. There is a lot of research to show that it is helpful in recomposition (gaining muscle, losing fat) but you need to take a lot o fit over a long period (six months to a year) and the results are subtle. By all means take it, but don't expect miracles.

If you do something like a very low carb diet during the week, followed by a high carb, low fat diet at weekends, you'll find that you lose water weight during the week, and when you start eating carbs, your muscles get swollen and defined. Fitness models make a point of getting photo shoots done on the day after a carb-up.

Competition bodybuilders take it one step further and use salt to control hydration levels, but that's way over the top for just looking good in a swimsuit.

Southern Dandy

EileenG wrote: »

CLA is a type of fatty acid. There is a lot of research to show that it is helpful in recomposition (gaining muscle, losing fat) but you need to take a lot o fit over a long period (six months to a year) and the results are subtle. By all means take it, but don't expect miracles.

If you do something like a very low carb diet during the week, followed by a high carb, low fat diet at weekends, you'll find that you lose water weight during the week, and when you start eating carbs, your muscles get swollen and defined. Fitness models make a point of getting photo shoots done on the day after a carb-up.

Competition bodybuilders take it one step further and use salt to control hydration levels, but that's way over the top for just looking good in a swimsuit.

Cheers for that, quite usefull thanks, is there any known side effects to these pills, as in anything that shoulnt be taken in conjuction with them?

And as for the salt i dont think id look good in a swimsuit nor would anyone else think id look good in it for that matter, so i wont be doing that....

Pen1987

Its possible to manipulate your hydration levels to make yourself look slightly more slender in the extreme short-term (i.e. for a photoshoot or bodybuilding competition). It will make no notable difference to your body shape if you are wearing clothes really, it only could take you from having, say 4 visible abs to having a six-pack, for a few hours... you need low bodyfat prior to beginning manipulating it to see any difference.

Basically you overload your body with water for a week, this means drinking 3/4 gallons a day and never being more than 20feet from the jacks, and eating NO carbs (they absorb water into the muscle and make you retain it I think) then on the day before you want to look slim you stop drinking water completely... because youve overloaded your hydration for the previous week your body has begun flushing out your system and this continues for a while after you stopped drinking water. So your body totally flushes the remaining water out of your system and you loose all your water-weight and look very 'hard', i.e you look pumped and solid and toned.

This will last for maybe 12 hours but once you begin to drink water again (which you should ASAP) the water weight will return...

Hanley

Southern Dandy wrote: »

Cheers for that, quite usefull thanks, is there any known side effects to these pills, as in anything that shoulnt be taken in conjuction with them?

And as for the salt i dont think id look good in a swimsuit nor would anyone else think id look good in it for that matter, so i wont be doing that....

Don't go near ECA. Do you even know what's in it??

Ephedrine is notorious for causing hot flushes, heart palpitations and more.

I very much doubt that anything marketing itself as being ECA based will even have any ephedrine in it. I'm pretty sure the sale of eph. is banned in Ireland like.

HammerHeadGym

ECA is now a banned substance in Ireland. There are replacments for ephedrine, like ephedra. I would recommend you stay well clear though. As hanley says there are a lot more hot flushes and heart tremors than rippling six packs. Something like hydroxycut might be what your looking for. It's not cheap but you will get results. Or clenbuterol. Is that banned in Ireland? Probably, tbh. In thailand it's over the counter and a lot of fighters take it to help them cut for a fight.

dave80

HammerHeadGym wrote: »

ECA is now a banned substance in Ireland. There are replacments for ephedrine, like ephedra. I would recommend you stay well clear though. As hanley says there are a lot more hot flushes and heart tremors than rippling six packs. Something like hydroxycut might be what your looking for. It's not cheap but you will get results. Or clenbuterol. Is that banned in Ireland? Probably, tbh. In thailand it's over the counter and a lot of fighters take it to help them cut for a fight.

both are banned in ireland, but you could go online to get both

zAbbo

dave80 wrote: »

both are banned in ireland, but you could go online to get both

Don't think either contain Ephedrine anymore (not sure if Clen did, but Hydroxcuts original forumla did)

g'em

zAbbo wrote: »

Don't think either contain Ephedrine anymore (not sure if Clen did, but Hydroxcuts original forumla did)

Clenbuterol doesn't contain ephedrine. Clenbuterol, like ephedrine, is a decongestant drug and also a bronchodilator but is more commonly used for equine treatment (when it's used properly). Their stiumlatory and thermogenic properties are side-effects of both of them and they're most often used for weight loss than anything else now. Both are pxn only drugs and you won't find them on any shelves in Ireland. You'd also have to be very wary of so-called ECA stacks/ clen pills you bought off the intarweb.

As far as on the shelf thermogens go, some green tea and caffeine will be about the most effective thing you'll be able to buy. I guess those old reliables aren't fancy enough for most folk these days though...

Blazer

Ah ephedrine
now there was a boost to your energy levels...
it always annoys me when something gets banned for being bad for you..yet smoking kills hundreds of thousands more people and no ban for that..
Hmm..if it the backlash I wonder from people or the amount of money they'd lose in taxation.

EileenG

Hanley wrote: »

Don't go near ECA. Do you even know what's in it??

Ephedrine is notorious for causing hot flushes, heart palpitations and more.

I very much doubt that anything marketing itself as being ECA based will even have any ephedrine in it. I'm pretty sure the sale of eph. is banned in Ireland like.

He's got CLA, not ECA. Completely different thing.

EileenG

Southern Dandy wrote: »

Cheers for that, quite usefull thanks, is there any known side effects to these pills, as in anything that shoulnt be taken in conjuction with them?

Not that I know. CLA is a naturally occuring fat, usually found in in small amounts in meat and milk and things like that. Can't think of anything that would interfere or be contra-indicated. As well as the recomposition benefits (subtle) there are health benefits to it as well. It improves management of diabetes, blood sugar levels, leptin levels and reduces the risk of breast cancer.

Roper

To cut fat I use this weird stuff called sweat and this other stuff called food. They're mad yokes. I don't think they're banned over here yet but they're so effective that sooner or later they're bound to be.

Latchy

My friend has being on the slimmin diet with good results .She is also using the supplement ' Bodyperfect ' by BIO syenergy' .She finds she has that little bit more energy with taken the capsules and helping her loose the lbs

Southern Dandy

latchyco wrote: »

My friend has being on the slimmin diet with good results .She is also using the supplement ' Bodyperfect ' by BIO syenergy' .She finds she has that little bit more energy with taken the capsules and helping her loose the lbs

Im not actually trying to lose weight, just trying to strip fat to get more definition while keeping muscle mass....

Southern Dandy

Roper wrote: »

To cut fat I use this weird stuff called sweat and this other stuff called food. They're mad yokes. I don't think they're banned over here yet but they're so effective that sooner or later they're bound to be.

I never realised that sweat can strip fat??? Do you drink it??? or does it come in pill form?????

Roper

Basically you do really really hard cardio and resistance training with two face cloths under your armpits. Then, when you're finished you suck the facecloths dry.

It's amazing, the fat just falls off you. I found that the harder I worked, the more sweat I made and drank, then the more fat I lost! Amazing!

SorGan

Roper wrote: »

Basically you do really really hard cardio and resistance training with two face cloths under your armpits. Then, when you're finished you suck the facecloths dry.

It's amazing, the fat just falls off you. I found that the harder I worked, the more sweat I made and drank, then the more fat I lost! Amazing!

bottle it, sell it to gym noobs:pac:

Southern Dandy

Basically you do really really hard cardio and resistance training with two face cloths under your armpits. Then, when you're finished you suck the facecloths dry.

Roper wrote: »

It's amazing, the fat just falls off you. I found that the harder I worked, the more sweat I made and drank, then the more fat I lost! Amazing!

Ha that sounds pretty convincing, but people might think im "weird" if i do the facecloth thing as im a teeny tinny bit vein you see! so i think i might stick to my cla pills, cheers though ill recommend your advice to anyone should a similar conversation arise

Roper

Yes you're right. Sweat is icky. Keep poppin pills.

Southern Dandy

EileenG wrote: »

Not that I know. CLA is a naturally occuring fat, usually found in in small amounts in meat and milk and things like that. Can't think of anything that would interfere or be contra-indicated. As well as the recomposition benefits (subtle) there are health benefits to it as well. It improves management of diabetes, blood sugar levels, leptin levels and reduces the risk of breast cancer.

I think you pretty much made up my mind there, think ill go ahead and get them, what harm sure, seriously appreciate the help,

cheers

Southern Dandy

Roper wrote: »

Yes you're right. Sweat is icky. Keep poppin pills.

ill keep poppin the pills you keep sucking the.........facecloths!

Glad we had this conversation talk to you later

j0605

Has anyone tried Lida there are a chinese slimming tablet.

I have seen my friends lose 2 to 3 stone with them but not sure if they are safe.

rubadub

j0605 wrote: »

Has anyone tried Lida there are a chinese slimming tablet.

I have seen my friends lose 2 to 3 stone with them but not sure if they are safe.

found this

Health Canada advises consumers not to use Super Fat Burning and LiDa Daidaihua Slimming Capsules for weight loss

OTTAWA - Health Canada is advising consumers not to use two herbal weight loss products from China because they have been found to contain sibutramine, a prescription medication that should only be taken under medical supervision.

Super Fat Burning and LiDa Daidaihua Slimming Capsules are not authorized for sale in Canada. The two products have so far not been found on the Canadian market, but they may have been brought into the country for personal use by travellers or been purchased by Canadians over the Internet.

Sibutramine is a prescription medication that suppresses the appetite. If used improperly, sibutramine can have serious health consequences, including increased heart rate and blood pressure as well as increased pressure to the eyes causing pain and hemorrhaging. Individuals with heart or circulatory problems should not take sibutramine. It should also not be taken with medications such as antidepressants that can affect the level of hormone serotonin in the brain.

Consumers who are currently using Super Fat Burning or LiDa Daidaihua Slimming Capsules should stop taking the product immediately and should contact their health care professional for advice.

http://www.caloriesperhour.com/forums/forum8/2969.html

the drug it contains http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sibutramine

Side effects

Frequently encountered side effects are: dry mouth, paradoxically increased appetite, nausea, strange taste in the mouth, upset stomach, constipation, trouble sleeping, dizziness, drowsiness, menstrual cramps/pain, headache, flushing, or joint/muscle pain.

Sibutramine can substantially increase blood pressure and pulse in some patients. Therefore all patients treated with sibutramine should have regular monitoring of blood pressure and pulse.

The following side effects are infrequent but serious and require immediate medical attention: cardiac arrhythmias, paresthesia, mental/mood changes (e.g., excitement, restlessness, confusion, depression, rare thoughts of suicide).

Symptoms that require urgent medical attention are seizures, problems urinating, abnormal bruising or bleeding, melena, hematemesis, jaundice, fever and rigors, chest pain, hemiplegia, abnormal vision, dyspnea and edema.

Currently, no case of pulmonary hypertension has been noted, although related compounds (such as Fen-Phen) have shown this rare but clinically significant problem.

Roper's armpit juice sounds more appetising :pac:

j0605

Thanks Rubadub

I have heard so much about Lida being 100% naturan and safe but obviously not, I better ensure all my friends know the risks,
They have been told that the pills cannot be taken for more thank 3 months but I know many have been on them for four or five which must be even more dangerous.
Thanks again for the information.

Roper

Whenever someone tells me how something is "100% natural" I just have to remind them that heroin is derived from poppies.

My sweat, however, is indeed 100% natural, so come get some. Only €10 for a 100ml bottle.

kevpants

j0605 wrote: »

I have heard so much about Lida being 100% naturan and safe but obviously not,

What is the legal definition of 100% natural anyway? None of the ingredients are fictitious?

g'em

kevpants wrote: »

What is the legal definition of 100% natural anyway? None of the ingredients are fictitious?

Good question, although from what I know there is no legal definition per say. The term is loosely used food-wise to indicate that a product has no artificial ingredients or preservatives in it, but I don't know how the term applies to drugs or pharmaceutical-like products. Like Roper said though, just because something is 'natural' doesn't make it automatically good for you.

Legislation regarding proper food/ product labelling is badly needed at this stage.

JJ6000

I really dont think ephedrine is as dangerous as some people and the media make it out to be.

The ban in the US, I believe, was in response to a college wrestler who died after taking it. What the media did not mention, though, was that those same wrestlers were also dehydrating for hours prior to a weigh-in and jogging in the sauna. I consider the ban of ephedra similar to the way Red Bull was banned in France after a couple of people died after drinking it (no proof that the red bull actually caused it though).

In any case, Ephedrine is overrated. No diet pill is going to do the work for you....Diet is key and ephedrine will make very little difference. As regards fat loss it is useful perhaps for bodybuilders who are already at a very low bodyfat level and are seeking to get that remaining 1% off......for the average gymgoer or someone who just wants to look good though, you should forget about it.

EileenG

I have used ephedrine in the past, and didn't find it much different from strong coffee. Slight jittery effect, maybe a bit more energy in the gym, no noticible difference in appetite. I was hoping for an increase in blood pressure (mine is normally about 90/60, so an increase would be good) but nothing doing.