ISAA Membership

Reku

Private Ryan wrote: »

To answer the question on the Refusal of admitance by colleges. I was in with my sports ofice yesterday and they have no problem with refusing people entry and I was told that people have always been refused entry to the rifle club as a result of vetting. When it is introduced in Archery, even though the vetting is for a different reason the college will make no distinction between them and people can be refused.

Except there is a noteworthy difference between refusing people and kicking them out after accepting them, people have already been accepted into college clubs for the year.

Sparks wrote: »

Then you're in UCD and it's a new policy because it's not something that TCD do at all (I've been in the TCD rifle club since '94), and frankly I've never heard of it happening in UCD either and I've known the people who've run that club for a decade.

Can't say I've heard of anyone being vetted before being accepted for the dcu clubs/socs last week, might ask folks I know though, see if any did and just weren't too pushed on the issue.

Aryzel wrote: »

Thats good. Did you check with them that if someone fails a vetting does and can the archery club tell the college that there person has failed the vetting because they are considered dangerous to children? College might like to know, but we might not be allowed to tell them.

Which is part of the idiocy of this since if college students are to be vetted before joining clubs/socs it should be done by the college itself and not individual clubs/socs, otherwise one club/soc being less throughough brings potentially brings them all into disrepute. You could well have folks rejected from one club/soc and accepted into others, then you have the whole debaucle of which clubs/socs actually need to be vetted for this? Should groups that have no-interaction with the public outside the university undergo it anyway? Will they be stuck with the stigma of being branded as paedophiles if they don't?

Quite simply I see this as laziness on the part of the IAAA (or any other sporting body that tries to assuade us that this vetting will stop paedophiles from getting to kids through the sport) to institute an actual framework (e.g. never allow an adult to train alone with a kid/kids, members should not give/offer lifts to children that are not their own unless the parent of the child has actually requested they do so, etc...) that would prevent opportunities from presenting themselves to anyone in the clubs, instead lets just place the blame on the gardai for not catching the sicko sooner. The idea that this will stop paedophiles is rather short sighted considering the number on instances each year where a licenced gun owner, in otherwords someone who passed the vetting, misuses their gun and the gardai have to get involved or clean up the mess afterwards.

Private Ryan

What's in the information pack is as good as exactly as what Dermot described. As Ruiner posted all this information would gladly be made available to anyone who expresses an official interest in joining the IAAA. And more than likely it will be publicly published when its finished. Sparks I accept you are a pending member and is not from you that I'm withholding the information its from every other tom dick and harry that has a computer and knows how to use the keyboard.
What I said would not be released is the basis for refusal or acceptance or what constitutes as a reason for refusal of admittance. The reason for this is due to the individuality of the circumstances of each case.
Back to ISAA, every UCD rifle club member fills in a fire arms vetting form ( I did it myself last year) luckily from what Sparks has to say no one to this day has failed and more than likely no one will in archery either. But as far as the college is concerned, If they get a recommendation from an NGB that someone is unfit to participate in a sport for code of ethics for children in sport reasons or the guards say that someone is unsuitable to use a firearm, they will refuse this person access to the club. They did question the necessity of vetting much the same as I do but are acceptant that it is coming down the line for other sports anyway.
My big problem with this thread is the anti-IAAA/ anti IAAA executive undertone. The IAAA has enough of its own difficulties without people from outside the organisation trying to collapse a new initiative before it even gets off the ground.
The easy option for me would have been to bite my tongue and let this argument perpetuate more and more rumours and conjecture. I have tried to let you all know that your questions would be answered (just not on this forum) but there seems to be an inability to anything other than gripe (I'm not immune to that either). What annoyed me most about the four comments was Renegades comment on never shooting again, I mistakenly? interpreted Aryzels comment as being smart @$$ed, sparks referring to the official secrets act and Redjeeps comment
I've heard that quite a few clubs affiliated to the IAAA are refusing to accept this, so wait and see what happens now. No names yet.
From being at the meeting I can give those names but this has no relevance to the argument if they are afraid to put their names to it. This is a cheap shot by someone with a personal vendetta against the current executive. At least all others are being constructive by having a debate.
That all I have to say on the matter. Again if you want details contact the IAAA directly and they will give them to you. Keep posting questions if you have any an I'll make sure that they are considered. Be patient and once the process is finalised it will "all" be published before being officially adopted. Some basic IAAA specific vetting rules are in the rule book that is due for publication at the AGM for ratification at a later date.

Reku

In fact looking over the Swim Ireland incident in the media I've yet to see any mention of O'Rourke having relevant convictions prior to his being made a coach, in fact the big f-up by swim Ireland seems to have been that they didn't have the sort of framework I'm talking about and suspend O'Rourke pending the outcome of investigations into the complaints against him.
If he genuinely did not have prior convictions for sex crimes then vetting would not have done a thing to stop him.

ruiner

The system wont catch first time offenders no but I think it's better to have something in place than nothing at all.

There are other schemes in place like childrens officers that work in conjunction with vetting to reduce potential dangers to as small as possible.

I've said it before but it's not just children that this is trying to protect.

Sparks

P.Ryan, if you filled out a form for UCDRC, it wasn't a vetting form. Neither UCDRC nor DURC have vetting in place - you filled out a membership form that gives them permission to give your name to the Gardai, where it goes on a list of members of the club. That's all that happens with it - they don't do any further processing with it, it's just data collection. That system's been there from the beginning, but it isn't vetting in any way whatsoever.

spudnick

sorry if this has been covered before but i read throught a few pages then skipped a few,

i think i would be right in saying that the irish sports council asked the iaaa tho do this,they being affiliated to the sports council agreed,so all iaaa afiliated clubs have to be vetted-annoying-but what can we do.

however do NON affiliated clubs have to be vetted?!?

my question is do the colleges who are NOT affiliated to the iaaa have to vet members??

i realise that many colleges are affiliated but for those of us who arnt its seems that a body that were not affiliated to is telling us to do vetting?if were not affiliated how can IAAA ask us to vet our members??

Panserborn

Non-affialiated colleges are a kind of gray area I think. They are affiliated to the ISAA (as informal as it is), and ISAA is officially affialiated to the IAAA.

You are probably grand as I'm not sure how binding the college affilation to ISAA is.

spudnick

National vetting officer then views the files and makes a Yes/No answer.

so were saying that 1 person gets to decide who joins a club?

doogle deegan

spudnick wrote: »

so were saying that 1 person gets to decide who joins a club?

This is not the case. A comitte of 3 people will decide, ( the vetting officer, someone indipendent of the organistation and one other person) The vettting officer will be the only person who knows the who is being reviewed so that the other committee members can remain unbiased.

Renegade_Archer

This still involves giving 3 people (are these people known?) information about me that I would prefer remained internal to the gardai. No dice.

ruiner

No, well apart from the vetting officer.

Renegade_Archer

This thread has been going on for a month now. Lolocaust.

Renegade_Archer

Was there ever any resolution to this?


Does anyone in the IAAA actually *see* my record, or do they just get a yes/no from the cops?