Bad Parenting

jtbub15

Hi all, Just thought I would set up a quick thread to hear any ones views on the following.

While in a family restaurant yesterday having dinner with my OH, there was a family opposite also enjoying their meal. There was 2 young boys with them, probably about 7 and 12. While eating their dinner I was waiting for mine and was just sort of glancing around the entire restaurant.

The younger of the two boys was acting up a little, boys will be boys! And he and his brother were sort of kicking each other under the table. The young boy kind of stood up and kicked his brother again.

Now I know this is a bit annoying especially if your family is out for sunday lunch but what the father did I think was completely uncalled for. When the yound boy sat back down (beside his father), his father gave him an almightyful THUMP in his chest. It was clearly heard thoughout the restaurant.

Me and my OH were completely disgusted and shocked by this. We didnt say anything directly to the family, (although I wish I had now) but we did give some loud remarks and dirty looks.

What would anyone else so in this situation??

Ian Beale

And you felt it was your place to say something because...?I'd keep my mouth shut,their kids their business, throwing dirty looks at them was childish imo,goes to show how pc ireland is now,teachers would hit students years ago and now parents get judged for it

lostinnappies

OP, with parents who couldnt be bothered to figure out another way of dealing with their own child .. even in public.. rather then thump them, i think its best to not say anything because lets face it, are they really going to listen?

And yes i think it is everyones right to stick up for children, even if it means you are wrong imho. It doesnt mean you have to go over there and start shouting and ranting and raving at them, but in your situation i would havd done the dirty looks too.

I wouldnt consider it bad parenting, just misguided.I mean who hear hasnt lost the rag at some point.

stovelid

Not really your business. If he had hit him more seriously, like a punch or something, maybe an intervention is warranted, but it's a family matter. Many parents would feel that this is OK.

While not abuse, striking your child in public is just a parenting fail though. It's ironic that the adult hits the child to show the child that it's wrong to kick his brother. :rolleyes:

MrsA

What were you hoping to achieve by your loud remarks and dirty looks?

Were you just making sure that everyone in the restaurant knows that you would never do that to your own child?

Of course it was wrong what he did, there is no need to even discuss that, it is your reaction to it that I wonder about.

M

ntlbell

jtbub15 wrote: »

What would anyone else so in this situation??

I'd be busy minding my own business and paying attention to my GF who I am suppose to be keeping company instead of judging everyone else.

Zulu

A full grown adult thumping a (7/12 year old) child in the chest?
Child abuse imo.

I'd have said something to him directly.

jimmycrackcorm

OP doesn't mention if the kid cried or was upset. I'm sure many of up got a wallop or strap when we were young and it didn't do any harm.

metamorphic

The child acted up and learned there's consequences to his actions. Might have seemed a bit harsh but there was no way to exclude the child from the table at that point in time, because to do so would leave the child unattended. At an extreme the child might have been removed to the car, but again, that's not safe either.

You wonder why teenagers these days run amok, it's because there's no consequences to their actions. I'd wager in 10 years that child won't be one of the local hoodlums terrorising you as you try to go about your business.

I'd have to have witnessed the blow to comment whether it was over the top or not. looking back on my childhood I was stuck on occasion, not very often, but I think if I was acting up like that a similar action would have been taken.

stovelid

Zulu wrote: »

Child abuse imo.
.

Hardly.

I wouldn't do it myself and hate to see children being hit, especially in public, but lets not get carried away here.

Zulu

An adult thumping a child in the chest is child abuse.
That's not getting carried away, it's a statement of fact.

If a thump isn't abusive - what is? Does blood have to be drawn before you'd be satisfied?

stovelid

Zulu wrote: »

An adult thumping a child in the chest is child abuse.
That's not getting carried away, it's a statement of fact.

If a thump isn't abusive - what is? Does blood have to be drawn before you'd be satisfied?

Not condoning it. Wouldn't ever do it. If I witnessed a severe assault, I would certainly get involved.

But if you're saying it is comparable to actual child abuse or assault, it's not. Unfortunately it's not illegal and a great many parents would not see it as such.

I see it as failed parenting though.

Zulu

stovelid wrote: »

Not condoning it. Wouldn't ever do it. If I witnessed a severe assault, I would certainly get involved.

I understand that.

But if you're saying it is comparable to actual child abuse or assault, it's not.

I don't follow you here. IMO it is child abuse. As in, it's abusing a child. (Physically) How is it not? If you had done the same to the child while the parents and a Guard were there to witness, what do you think the outcome would have been?

Unfortunately it's not illegal and a great many parents would not see it as such.

Ahhh, "legally", perhaps, but I wasn't discussing what is or isn't legal you understand.

I see it as failed parenting though.

Agreed.

stovelid

Zulu wrote: »

I understand that.
I don't follow you here. IMO it is child abuse. As in, it's abusing a child. (Physically) How is it not? If you had done the same to the child while the parents and a Guard were there to witness, what do you think the outcome would have been?

Sure, I hear you.

I just mean that there is a certain 'acceptable' (albeit not to me) level of physical chastisement that a large proportion of society would accept and that the law condones. I would get only get involved if I thought I saw that zone being left. Otherwise you are interfering on the basis that you don't agree with a person's method of parenting.

Again, I feel like I'm cheerleading for people who belt their kids in public. I'm not. I would not approve at all, but I wouldn't stare, comment or intervene unless I saw fit.

marti101

Plus op you would be the one onhere moaning how your dinner was ruined cause the parents didnt check the child.Would you rather the kids got bored kicking each other and then went mad about the restaurent while the parents just sat there.There was obviously no other way of stopping the child.Can i ask do you have kids cause if you dont its alright to say i wouldnt do this or i wouldnt do that nobody knows how they react or what the sitaution was before they went out to eat.Im not saying its alright to bate the ****e out of them but he didnt just a slap and that was that

jtbub15

stovelid wrote: »

Not really your business. If he had hit him more seriously, like a punch or something,

The father really thumped him hard! closed fist right to the chest...hard. To another poster.... yeah the child was very upset and crying but he was told to shut up so he just sat in silence with tears streaming down his face...he looked to petrified to do anything else.

littlebitdull

I think it is bad parenting. Is it enough to call it abuse, well yes I guess it is.

As to what I would do ... well to be honest I would have probably done pretty much what the OP did.

ntlbell

littlebitdull wrote: »

I think it is bad parenting. Is it enough to call it abuse, well yes I guess it is.

As to what I would do ... well to be honest I would have probably done pretty much what the OP did.

what made stupid comments and rolled your eyes?

Very pro active..:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Nevyn

ntlbell this is your final warning quit the antognatic and trolling posts.

jtbub15

marti101 wrote: »

Plus op you would be the one onhere moaning how your dinner was ruined cause the parents didnt check the child.Would you rather the kids got bored kicking each other and then went mad about the restaurent while the parents just sat there.There was obviously no other way of stopping the child.Can i ask do you have kids cause if you dont its alright to say i wouldnt do this or i wouldnt do that nobody knows how they react or what the sitaution was before they went out to eat.Im not saying its alright to bate the ****e out of them but he didnt just a slap and that was that

I agree with you that a slap does no one any harm, often got a few of them in my day! but in no way was this a slap. IMO totally out of order. I work with kids, I have kids and a thump like that is never ever needed. If I was having dinner in a fabcy hotel were i was paying a fortune I would get a bit annoyed about kids running around i suppose but this was a famly restaurant at 3 or 4 on a sunday. It was expected that kids would be there so I would never get annoyed about that.

Ludo

There have been MANY of these threads on this forum and generally I come out on the side of saying a slap is NOT abuse. From the description given on this thread however, this sounds a bit more than a slap and is definitely wrong.

As to what to do though...haven't a clue. To be perfectly honest I would probably have done the same as the OP also though in the hope of getting a message to the people involved without being confrontational or antagonistic.

Zulu

marti101 wrote: »

There was obviously no other way of stopping the child.

How did you manage to assertain that from the OP?

Im not saying its alright to bate the ****e out of them but he didnt just a slap and that was that

Nope, this wasn't "just a slap". The father thumped the child with such force that the other diners could clearly hear it.

Nevyn

Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls we already have a large mega thread about the slapping issue.

Can we please get back to the topic of what you would do if it happened in front of you and lets try and keep the thread civil and constructive.

littlebitdull

I am not saying that the right thing to do is make comments to each other and roll your eyes. But I can honestly say that ...its pretty much what I would have done! Then went home, probably told my sister about it in one of our daily phone chats, perhaps came on to an internet site and ranted about it.

And spent a good few hours worrying about what I should have done, what I could have done ..

but at the end of the day what would aproaching said parent have achieved? More than likely a shout from the parent about minding your own business - about how he parents his kid being his business - or such like.

jtbub15

littlebitdull wrote: »

I am not saying that the right thing to do is make comments to each other and roll your eyes. But I can honestly say that ...its pretty much what I would have done! Then went home, probably told my sister about it in one of our daily phone chats, perhaps came on to an internet site and ranted about it.

And spent a good few hours worrying about what I should have done, what I could have done ..

but at the end of the day what would aproaching said parent have achieved? More than likely a shout from the parent about minding your own business - about how he parents his kid being his business - or such like.

haha sounds like you and me are exactly the same person!! thats exactly how I was feeling.

esmeralda

jtbub15 wrote: »

haha sounds like you and me are exactly the same person!! thats exactly how I was feeling.

+1

I think it's how many, many people would feel.

gollyitsolly

I was on a bus years ago,up at the front. Across from me was another bus with a man and a child about 5,a little boy. The boy did or said something and next thing the man banged the childs head right down onto the bar of the seat in front of them. He turned and smirked at me as if to say "what are you gonna do"? Meanwhile the little boy was roaring crying. Ive NEVER forgotten that and I still think what happened to that child. Im sorry,but I could not ignore that incident and I wouldnt care if I was called a busybody but I would have to say something.

Clytus

An adult who hits a child with the intention of causing the child pain in my opinion is abusing that child.
I know how I feel about my son...sure he can try my patience at times...but NEVER EVER would I raise a finger to him. If I did it to a guy my own size, Id probably get the snot kicked outta me and then arrested...so what gives an adult the right to hit a child?

Theres ways and means to discipline kids....but to physically assualt them is not one of them.

Children are some of the most vunerable, innocent people in our society...and look up to us as parents to show them and teach them and mould them into the sort of adults we would like to see them become one day....but to do that using physical violence as a punishment when it suits us is IMHO steering them in an unhealthy direction.

Khannie

lostinnappies wrote: »

I wouldnt consider it bad parenting, just misguided.I mean who hear hasnt lost the rag at some point.

I think we all have. Children like to push the boundaries. Totally natural. Healthy even.

stovelid wrote: »

I wouldn't do it myself and hate to see children being hit, especially in public, but lets not get carried away here.

Exactly. The fact of the matter is that your chest is a big strong piece of kit. It would take an _enormous_ amount of force to do any damage there. Honestly, I can't see myself ever hitting my kids in public....but.....

Zulu wrote: »

I'd have said something to him directly.

I'd strongly suggest you don't. Other peoples parenting choices are none of your business tbh. Also...it really is very difficult to say what you would have done. You didn't witness this "thump" so you don't know how hard it was / malice intended / etc.

Khannie

Clytus wrote: »

Theres ways and means to discipline kids....but to physically assualt them is not one of them.

Take it to the slapping thread tbh. I've no problem with it myself, though I have never resorted to it.

Zulu

Khannie wrote: »

I'd strongly suggest you don't.

Meh, I'm not the type of person to sit back and watch abuse happen before my eyes.

Other peoples parenting choices are none of your business tbh.

True, but assualt has nothing to do with parenting.

Also...it really is very difficult to say what you would have done. You didn't witness this "thump" so you don't know how hard it was / malice intended / etc.

Well I'm only commenting on the information submitted for my perusal. On the back of that, a child was thumped in the chest by an adult. Simple as.

LadyE

Cant believe some of the repsonses on this thread. THe man thumped a child :eek: I cant honesly say what I would do in the situation, but would be very concerned about what kind of punishment methods the father does at home, where noone can see. I m ean, if he can thump his child in the chest in public..Id only assume its worse at home

Clytus

Id agree ladye.

Ann22

I would've reacted the same way as the op. In fact if I knew where they lived I would've reported it. If that's the way they treat their child in public what goes on behind closed doors. Thumping a child in the chest is child abuse -end of. That's what those two boys are growing up experiencing so that's how they will treat each other and others. My sister saw a man thumping his little girl repeatedly on the back one day in a street near her home. She rang the guards. She knew the street they lived in,the little one's first name, the country they were from and the school she goes to but that's all she could tell them so I don't know if anything was done about it.

stovelid

Ann22 wrote: »

In fact if I knew where they lived I would've reported it. If that's the way they treat their child in public what goes on behind closed doors. Thumping a child in the chest is child abuse -end of..

Reported to whom? Social services? Nice to see you wasting their (extremely finite) time resources on what is basically hearsay about what goes on in their house.

I don't agree with hitting a child. Especially not with closed hand in the chest. Especially not in public. But it is not comparable to sexual abuse, neglect or extreme violence. All of which are the province of the social services and police.

Anybody doing any of the above know what they are doing wrong. Public 'slappers' think they are being firm and corrective. Like my mum's spare the rod generation. Wrong, bad for the child, but not abuse.

After reading some of the posts here, I would like to see how hard the slap actually was myself.

carolinearc

I would have done the same. It's time to teach the children some good manners, know how to behave in public, respect other people and of course respect their parents. If the parents let them do whatever they want, thats why there are so may rotten children, behave badly in public and doesn't respect others. Why because "mummy and daddy" let them do whatever they want, spoil them. This doesn't work with me, i brought this child to the world so its my duty to give him/her good education, good manners and good respect.

I was in a cafe yesterday having a coffee and a girl around 14 or 15 was shouting at her mother to buy her a hot chocolate. The mother bought for her and on the table, she was shouting at her mother because there was no mashmallows. Poor women was so disappointed in public because her girl was shouting so loud and giving out to her. If it was my child a big slap in her face would have shut her up, anyway my kids doesn't behave like that.

Again i blame the parents, yes you are to be blame. You spoiled them.

jtbub15

god thats a bit harsh? i know when i was growing up my parents never abused me like that and I have nothing but respect for them for them respecting me?

So would you of let your husband/partner to thump your young son in the chest very hard and sit back and let him??

Hippo

carolinearc wrote: »

I would have done the same. It's time to teach the children some good manners, know how to behave in public, respect other people and of course respect their parents. If the parents let them do whatever they want, thats why there are so may rotten children, behave badly in public and doesn't respect others. Why because "mummy and daddy" let them do whatever they want, spoil them. This doesn't work with me, i brought this child to the world so its my duty to give him/her good education, good manners and good respect.

I was in a cafe yesterday having a coffee and a girl around 14 or 15 was shouting at her mother to buy her a hot chocolate. The mother bought for her and on the table, she was shouting at her mother because there was no mashmallows. Poor women was so disappointed in public because her girl was shouting so loud and giving out to her. If it was my child a big slap in her face would have shut her up, anyway my kids doesn't behave like that.

Again i blame the parents, yes you are to be blame. You spoiled them.

Is this for real? You really think you teach children respect for others and good manners by hitting them? Unbelievable. Hit them and you teach them fear, it's a totally different thing.

Clytus

Hippo wrote: »

Is this for real? You really think you teach children respect for others and good manners by hitting them? Unbelievable. Hit them and you teach them fear, it's a totally different thing.

Its the sorta thing someone who doesnt have kids says.....

Hippo

She says she has kids. I have two, they're grown up.

marti101

I think people forget when their kids are past that stage how bold and annoying they can be,they can and do test the patients of a saint.Im not saying what that man did was right but we have all been at the end of our tether at some satge.You cant say waht kind of parent he is based on one situation thats just unreasonable.He could be a brilliant father who momentarily lost the rag.And if the child hadnt been corrected the op would have been sayng they cant control their kids,you cant win.

carolinearc

It's not anybody's business to report anything anyway. All you have to do is to look at your own tail instead looking at others.

I dnt hit my kids because they are very respectable one. I showed them good manners since they were very small. I am not the kind of mother to let my kids go and hang around shopping centres at night time, go and sit besides shops, shouting at other people on the road or even play with other rotten one's. They are aware of that and i am proud the way they are being brought up. There is a time for them to be spoiled and there is a time for them to face the reality. When it's no its no and when it's yes its yes. Some children are very rotten and spoiled here and for me i blame the parents. If your child lives under your roof, he/she has to obey you and follow your rules. If you can't control them, no point of making babies then and enjoy your freedom. If you want to have children, you have to take your responsibility as a parent.

And don't come and tell me it's a bit harsh, i don't think the man would do that to hurt his kid. It's just a way to to punish him. Am certain that the kid won't be doing that again.

It's not my business if you spoiled your children but at least they should behave properly in public and respect other people. I don't care if they doesn't respect you as a parent but at least for the society they should.

Hippo

marti101 wrote: »

I think people forget when their kids are past that stage how bold and annoying they can be,they can and do test the patients of a saint.

I remember clearly how annoying and frustrating my kids could be when they were small, I was at the end of my tether plenty of times. Nevertheless if the adult doesn't deal with the situation without completely losing it how can you expect kids to learn to behave any differently? That's surely what being a parent is all about, difficult as it is.

The incident as described by the OP was assault, end of. If the guy had hit his wife like that I don't think so many people would be quite so cool about it. Do kids rank a little lower on the scale or something? The kid was misbehaving, sure. He hardly deserved to be thumped and humiliated in public by his 'loving' parent. I'd have said something to him alright, just as quickly as it had been his wife he'd hit. Bullying is bullying.

jtbub15

Hippo wrote: »

If the guy had hit his wife like that I don't think so many people would be quite so cool about it. Do kids rank a little lower on the scale or something?

That a very good point, if he had to hit his wife like that there would have been mayhem in the restaurant. Kids dont deserve to be hit like that IMO. If I ever see something like that again (hopefully not) I am definately going to say something, it has been annoying me since that I never said anything to him. I know some people think that it may not be any of my business but children can not speak up for themselves to a bully like that. Something like that needs to be nipped in the bud before it goes any further.

SerialComplaint

carolinearc wrote: »

I would have done the same. It's time to teach the children some good manners, know how to behave in public, respect other people and of course respect their parents. If the parents let them do whatever they want, thats why there are so may rotten children, behave badly in public and doesn't respect others. Why because "mummy and daddy" let them do whatever they want, spoil them.

It's not an either/or choice between good manners and hitting children. There are many ways to teach children good manners and respect for parents without hitting.

Hitting doesn't teach respect, it teaches them to use violence to get their own way. If it's OK to hit kids, it is also OK to hit shop assistants, teachers, nurses etc if they don't respect me?

Mikel

carolinearc wrote: »

I would have done the same. It's time to teach the children some good manners, know how to behave in public, respect other people and of course respect their parents. If the parents let them do whatever they want, thats why there are so may rotten children, behave badly in public and doesn't respect others. Why because "mummy and daddy" let them do whatever they want, spoil them. This doesn't work with me, i brought this child to the world so its my duty to give him/her good education, good manners and good respect

You're not teaching them to respect you, you're teaching them to be afraid of you because you happen to be bigger.
Of course you won't always be, I bet then you'll reassess your opinion.

This is just a rationalisation parents use, the reality is they lose their temper and lash out at the child. It's not as if they're making a cool rational judgement that making the child fear physical retribution is the best way to teach them how to behave.
Who would sit down and ask themselves how to teach their child something, and come up with the answer.. Pain!

Aspire One

doesnt anybody think it is our responsibility as people to give a crap i wish i had had someone to come up to my so called parents and tell them stop and stick up for me. i once was in a dunnes car park got a few bits and was putting them in the boot and noticed a little toddler definately around the one mark and she was in the car all by herself just left there i sat into my car and thought maybe the parent has just gone to put the trolley away and left her tere(which i hate ppl doing) i sat tere for a few minutes and then a second child popt up must av been sleeping or something i guess and this child was no older than 6 the minutes where passing and no sign of any parent at all i could have been sitting there for an hour and this was late at night i took the reg and gave it to the guards the car was unlocked anyone could have taken tese children if they wer paying attention lik i was by now it has gone to social services and it is there job now ppl need to care more about children it is our business!!!!

January

Please do not drag up four year old threads.

Closed