Sniper ....

whydave

Should snipers only engage at set ranges ....... yes yes the 1j rule but snipers have the art of stealth (they should have a sidearm for inside the set kill range )
just a idea ........
please add your feed back

ps : I don't like snipers they keep hitting me

yes there 'lair ' is for the there sidearm

Rhinocharge

whydave wrote: »

Should snipers only engage at set ranges ....... yes yes the 1j rule but snipers have the art of stealth (they should have a sidearm for inside the set kill range )
just a idea ........
please add your feed back

ps : I don't like snipers they keep hitting me

Jeez no. If a sniper let's you walk into their lair, then you're fair game.

Stone.cold

Rhinocharge wrote: »

Jeez no. If a sniper let's you walk into their lair, then you're fair game.

I agree, havin siad that if i were a sniper i wouldnt pick u off at close range as it would alert my position, i would leave that prize to my spotter

JonAnderton

But wouldn't the spotter be sitting beside you?

Stone.cold

JonAnderton wrote: »

But wouldn't the spotter be sitting beside you?

not necessarily, if u have comm's he could be on the other side of a track far enough away not to give away your position

JonAnderton

Rrrrright... of course....

I suppose there's no need for him to be placing shots as there's no range to consider and its easy to mark out targets "By that tree" without giving wide distances...

Think I'd prefer to have the old school style... more realistic.. but, then again, depends what you're in the game for... Just the experience or to win as well?

Stone.cold

JonAnderton wrote: »

Rrrrright... of course....

I suppose there's no need for him to be placing shots as there's no range to consider and its easy to mark out targets "By that tree" without giving wide distances...

Think I'd prefer to have the old school style... more realistic.. but, then again, depends what you're in the game for... Just the experience or to win as well?

well jon we did it that way and we won too but if u like old school hay more power too u, if i'm right the thread started with "should snipers engage at set ranges" not can someone come on and tell me where my spotter should sit", but as always thanks for ure input.

Gatling

define what you mean sniper ,
for many its a guy or gal with a with a scope on an aeg that rarely know anything about the art or skill of being a sniper (as leanrning concealment shot taking and patience),
restricting a sniper to certain ranges wouldnt work not because of the 1 joule but more from the moaning and crying its not fair to them

JonAnderton

well jon we did it that way and we won too

That was my point. You (a player) may be in it simply for the MilSim and to experience a traditional military style sniper/spotter team which, in some cases, isn't the most ideal in airsoft and may result in a rapid death and little kill scores, or you might go for a more tactically advantageous spotter placement for easier kills and possible life longevity.

But, you're welcome for my input, even if it was apparently unwanted... I would have thought the presence of a spotter (or backup) and where he was, was relevant to whether there should be a rule to limit snipers ranges.. But thanks for putting me straight.

If the rule comes in and , if a sniper has a 'backup' closeby, then he can leave any close engagements to him (as I think you said), if he doesn't, and he has a mid range kill, then he'll either have to move (crating noise and movement) and get his pistol or let the kill go... Snipers work in teams. The spotter would need to be close enough to protect his sniper from a close quarters attack... from any approach

Sorry, I thought it was relevant...

whydave

Gatling wrote: »

define what you mean sniper ,

well not the bird ! ( snipe for those who don't know there history )
single shot kills at set ranges (30 m) self defence (within 10m )
this may no work in the site we have at the moment (in Dublin havn't gamed out side yet )
just looking for feed back

whydave

JonAnderton wrote: »

You're welcome for my input, even if it was apparently unwanted... I would have thought the preseence of a spotter (or backup) was relevant to whether there should be a rule to limit snipers ranges..

If the rule comes in and , if a sniper has a 'backup' then he can leave any close engagements to him (as I think you said), if he doesn't, and he has a mid range kill, then he'll either have to move (crating noise and movement) and get his pistol or let the kill go...

Sorry, I thought it was relevant...

all feed back welcome until a 'MOD' says

David

Gatling

i think jon's right sniper work as a team -1 part spoter/security/mule,

speaking of snipers the PDF won a big sniping competion at the Glen a couple of weeks back ,
the team used AI aw308's and aug a3s and beat the best teams from around the world using 338s,

so its a good time to be an airsoft sniper ,emulating the best in the world,

it would be intresting to see how sniper would fare if they were limited to a certain range ,
most operate at some site's at just over 10-15 feet not hard to miss at that range

JonAnderton

Accuracy International are the mutts.... And I've got the Well L96.... A great homage to a great piece.... Has a nice range to it... I'd feel a fake if I was only taking 'dange close' shots... But I wouldn't rule it out if necessary.

Dar

A sniper rifle does not a sniper make . We're lucky to have a great sniper on our team who doesn't even bother with a rifle most of the time. Just goes out with a pistol and picks up loads stealthy kills.

In Airsoft, accuracy just isnt the most important skill a sniper needs. There are no mile and a half shots to be taken. It's more important that they no how to use cover and concealment, how to move silently, how to pick off enemies on by one without giving away their position.

If we were actually in a position to allow snipers to use higher powered rifles I could see the point in restricting snipers to minimum engagement ranges and requiring the use of spotters. As it stands I really don't see the point.

TheDoc

ive been playing around a little bit with the sniper role.

And on a few lane occasions, for rolling assaults, ive been hiding, letting the opposing team swarm over me. Then when the last man passes i pop up and fire away.

I personally dont give bang kills, and i dont mind getting shot from within ten feet. After experiencing 3j games abroad, I appreciate that the 1j is pretty timid in comparason. As a sniper, engaging close range, i usually be curtious in firing at a enemys tac ves, to take away the "pain".

I personally think it should be left to discretion... implacing "engagements ranges", for 1j is pretty laughable...and gets messy.

I think everyone knows the laughs and moaning about bang kills

Chuck the Buck

I don't think snipers should be limited to a set range - speaking from personal experience (on the receiving end) if you let yourself get close to a sniper you're fair game for a shot from their long arm, short arm, bang kill or a slap!

As its been said before so many 'snipers' are guys with aeg's and a scope who aren't even hiding! If someone goes to the trouble of making/getting a gillie suit, learn stealth/field craft and use a spring sniper rifle then there should be no restrictions on them other than not beating you to death with the butt of their rifle!

As for the spotter I've seen them sitting 20m or more away from the sniper to spot targets coming up a path and radioing the info to their sniper. They also used their semi exposed position and aeg fire to draw the targets into the snipers kill zone. Did it work? Hell yeah! I got shot as I sneaked up towards the spotter! Never seen or heard the sniper!

Killinator

I dont think there should be restrictions, If someone walks into well into a short distance kill zone then thats there mistake, drawing a pistol sometimes requires too much movement, so if you already have a rifle aiming at them then use it,
I was in a sniper game as sniper, with two spotters, when people were starting to swarm on me(not actually knowing exactly where I was) my spotter(a crazed lunatic) ran in emptying his aeg, dropping it pulled out his pistol and gunned everyone he could down, as I got myself out before he was eventually gunned down himself, I then hid in a ditch for 10 minutes while the enemy talked team tactics above my head,
when I was eventually caught it was due to a slight head movement as I looked around,

Its tough enough on snipers with only a 1J limit like everyone else, if they can take the shot then they should take the shot

DisasterIRL

I feel there should be some sort of exception to the 1j rule for single shot only snipers or perhaps even only bolt action rifles, for example the rule could be 1 j with .3g bb's.

Sorry that was a little off topic, but I don't feel there should be any minimum engagement for snipers, they have the same power as any other user can so it is up to them, and not to be determined by a site.

My feelings on the bang rule you can call bang and they might not take the hit but if you are close(I don't mean a foot away) and you take a shot or two, not overkilling it, they are going to call it.:p

amaughan

Chuck the Buck wrote: »

I don't think snipers should be limited to a set range - speaking from personal experience (on the receiving end) if you let yourself get close to a sniper you're fair game for a shot from their long arm, short arm, bang kill or a slap!

As its been said before so many 'snipers' are guys with aeg's and a scope who aren't even hiding! If someone goes to the trouble of making/getting a gillie suit, learn stealth/field craft and use a spring sniper rifle then there should be no restrictions on them other than not beating you to death with the butt of their rifle!

As for the spotter I've seen them sitting 20m or more away from the sniper to spot targets coming up a path and radioing the info to their sniper. They also used their semi exposed position and aeg fire to draw the targets into the snipers kill zone. Did it work? Hell yeah! I got shot as I sneaked up towards the spotter! Never seen or heard the sniper!

oh the memorys hahaha i cant wait to take you out again soon hahaha

kevteljeur

Dar wrote: »

A sniper rifle does not a sniper make . We're lucky to have a great sniper on our team who doesn't even bother with a rifle most of the time. Just goes out with a pistol and picks up loads stealthy kills.

In Airsoft, accuracy just isnt the most important skill a sniper needs. There are no mile and a half shots to be taken. It's more important that they no how to use cover and concealment, how to move silently, how to pick off enemies on by one without giving away their position.

If we were actually in a position to allow snipers to use higher powered rifles I could see the point in restricting snipers to minimum engagement ranges and requiring the use of spotters. As it stands I really don't see the point.

I totally agree with this. I think snipers in airsoft in Ireland are hampered enough by the 1J rule that it's not useful. It would definitely be a good game balance otherwise, and I would thoroughly agree with it then, but as it stands here now, snipers don't have a significant advantage with having a theoretical level playing field with gbb pistols.

weeder

i agree, tried the sniper role out today for a hunt the sniper game using my pistol only, it was fun, a sniper rifle doesnt make a sniper, its the skill of sniping,
that said ill be bringing out my bolt action m21 next time:D, i have no scope for it, doesnt make it any less of a sniper

DisasterIRL wrote: »

I feel there should be some sort of exception to the 1j rule for single shot only snipers or perhaps even only bolt action rifles, for example the rule could be 1 j with .3g bb's.

Sorry that was a little off topic, but I don't feel there should be any minimum engagement for snipers, they have the same power as any other user can so it is up to them, and not to be determined by a site.

My feelings on the bang rule you can call bang and they might not take the hit but if you are close(I don't mean a foot away) and you take a shot or two, not overkilling it, they are going to call it.:p

the rule is 1j , the weight of the BB has little effect on the muzzle velocity

1 joule with .3g BB's is the very same as a joule with .2 gram BB's

Masada

I wouldnt really support engagment ranges with the limit we currently play at., if like the UK we were allowed more power for bolties then it would be an option, since the sniper shouldnt be letting people get that close but realistically we dont have any advantage over an AEG as it is, having an engagment range would only limit snipers even more.,

defenderdude

[DM]-TheDOC- wrote: »

I personally dont give bang kills, and i dont mind getting shot from within ten feet. After experiencing 3j games abroad, I appreciate that the 1j is pretty timid in comparason. As a sniper, engaging close range, i usually be curtious in firing at a enemys tac ves, to take away the "pain".

Ahhhh, now I know why you seemed to be in two minds regarding the bang-kill last Sunday at HRTA. I'll know in future...:D:D:D

OzCam

Lads, since we're all playing under a 1J rule, and it's not going to change any time soon, any discussion of minimum engagement limits in the ROI is a waste of time.

A bit of common sense and courtesy is all that's needed. All any player has to do, regardless of gun, is think Safety First and refrain from deliberately shooting another player in the head at short range. Especially if they're not wearing a mask. You always have a duty of care to the other player.

I've tried masks, but I'm till trying to find a mask that's comfortable, and/or goggles that don't fog, especially for the CQB. The comforter mask makes me overheat, but I guess it might be OK in December. I've tried wearing a gum shield, but I'm not getting on too well - it seems to make me gag. So there will always be players without (enough) face protection. The responsibility still lies with the shooter, regardless of whether you think it should or not.

kevteljeur

Since getting hit at any range in airsoft is a given (even when playing against me) then getting hit in the head is a strong possibility, even with the best of intentions. Players should not be required to wear full-face protection, but then again, players need to understand and accept the possibility that they could get hit in the face or somewhere else that is sensitive, and that if they don't want this to happen, they must protect those areas.

I try to avoid wearing full-face protection, and I accept that I run a high risk of taking a hit in the face.

What I'm getting at is that you can't make it the shooter's responsibility to go easy on the target other than minimum engagement distances and sheer stupidity, because few players and AEGs are accurate enough to guarantee an accurate hit on the intended target. And in 'the heat of battle' you can't promise anything - after all, we're just weekend warriors playing in a field. Of course, deliberate head hits at short range are not acceptable, but they do happen and players need to know and accept that this does happen. If you think you'll take a hit you won't appreciate in CQB, then you need to change your playing style to account for it.

It would be different if we were playing above 1J, and if snipers were given dispensation to play to 1.5x everyone else's power limit (I'd like that, if it were legal) in which case we would be playing with minimum engagement ranges for safety - and we would be a lot more careful about chronoing and safety rules/equipment. At the end of the day, I can think of few sports which are more safety-obsessed than airsoft, relative to the danger involved in the game...


(Sorry if that seems to go off-topic and a bit harsh, but it's relevant to the issue of minimum engagement distances)

TheDoc

defenderdude wrote: »

Ahhhh, now I know why you seemed to be in two minds regarding the bang-kill last Sunday at HRTA. I'll know in future...:D:D:D

Yeah, you probably noticed me having a little think of my odds, but then i saw keith in the corner of my eye, you infront of, a guy at the door, and a guy at the other entrance...and figured id be only to take out 3 before i died :P liessss

I think a good few points have been nailed on the head in here. And from experience playing in games, i cant help but notice theres alot of ignorance, stupidity etc from people playing. We are all guilty of it.

I'm off the firm belief, that if you are going to have a whinge about being shot from close...you need to find another game. Until bang kill becomes a rule in stone...I'm rarely going to abide by it, you may think thats me being an arse, but in fairness...I'm not really caring.

As kevin said, the responsibility should not rely on the shooter. Why should I have to go and take more time to relocate a shot away from your exposed arm while you were a t-shirt, or if your heads popping out a window etc. Its a game where we shoot each other, and I think alot of people need to get back to basics with that concept.

The only time I ever go mad at someone (rarely) is when through my sniper rifle i see ive hit someone and they dont take it, cause unlike an aeg, i cant just spray at that person. By the time i fire, my position is more then likely given away. And hearing excuses like today " a yeah but sure you can barely feel a sniper rifle hit "

I never comprehend people getting pissed over being shot close...or in the face..it happens, get over it...you dont like it go sit miles away on a radio and be a comms officer or something.

hoplite

[DM]-TheDOC- wrote: »

I never comprehend people getting pissed over being shot close...or in the face..it happens, get over it...you dont like it go sit miles away on a radio and be a comms officer or something.

+1

andy_g

i have to agree with the lads there tbh even if you dont feel it but hink you heard a hit take it as a frackin hit.

TheDoc

best line i got was " o but i thought if you cant see the person that hits you, it doesnt count"

I find its more annoying being a sniper, the fact i can clearly see if you dont take a hit through the scope, whereas with an aeg you cant be 100%

MacAonghusa

whydave wrote: »

ps : I don't like snipers they keep hitting me

Options...
- counter sniper tactics
- stand behind someone else

whydave

MacAonghusa wrote: »

Options...
- counter sniper tactics
- stand behind someone else

thanks never though of that

MacAonghusa

whydave wrote: »

thanks never though of that

No bother, I always stand behind someone else too, works a treat. :P