Tighter Security Needed for Irish Prisons ASAP

DenMan

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0912/prison.html

Evidently security in Irish prisons is not as tight as what it should/must be. This is from an article put up on the RTE website. I spent two weeks working in Strangeways Prison in Manchester in 2005, assigned to the kitchen. While over there I noticed round the clock surveillance of the prison. I am just wondering why Irish prisons are undermanned and as a result serious lapses in security have arisen? In the UK they operate under a system of Job Sharing and encourage volunteers to assist. This tries to promote and encourage people to actively seek a career in the Prison Service.

Serious offenders here are able to still continue their base of operations from within the confines of their own cell and as a result still maintain their sphere of influence to the outside world. Ireland really needs to clamp down on those on the inside. Is it down to a lack of funding available to the prison system?, or are there simply not enough people applying for a career in the prison service in Ireland?

I have just returned to full time education and the college I am with (Sligo IT) run courses for prison officers before the graduate as part of their training program. This is a terrific process and one I hope is very successful. Is this done in other colleges/universities here?

Thanking you all in advance.

Eru

Why would you apply to the prisons? theres no job security, they got hit with a wage reduction and set overtime per year regardless of what you actually want to work. Who has to nominate their FORCED overtime for next September now????

480905

Who said there was no job security in the Prison Service? check out the website and have a look at the wage scale for recruits. http://irishprisons.ie/recruitment-home.htm
Wages for a Prison Officer on his max with 360 hours overtime built in is €72,260.
Now thats bloody good money.

DenMan

Your right, it is very good money with good career prospects. I don't think a career in the prison services is pushed here as much as in the UK. Definitely a career for more people to think about and really consider.

480905

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

Why would you apply to the prisons? theres no job security, they got hit with a wage reduction and set overtime per year regardless of what you actually want to work. Who has to nominate their FORCED overtime for next September now????

e


Karlitosway1978,
You have your information arseways . But that doesn't surprise me for a garda..........No wage reduction.just an equalisation of the hours worked. In fairness its a COMPLETE pain in the arse if you didnt do the OT and now you have to do a share of the hours.But for the staff who did the hours (and got the rewards for it) there is still the incentive to do the extra hours.

IN response to your FORCED overtime statement....

An officer WOULDN'T be forced to do the extra hours... the officer has to nominate a set amount of days that he/she is AVAILABLE to work.And a set amount of time before the nominated date,the officer is told whether he/she will be required for that day..... And they get
paid for the hours at the end of the quarter WHETHER they are worked or not.

If you look at the website you can imagine that people would be very interested in applying for a state job that paid as well for a commitment to work extra hours for the wages offered.

one might even reconsider the Garda in favour of it....

Now wouldn't that just be a doozy.....

civdef

1 week ban to 480905 for personal abuse.

wicklaman83

dont see any personal abuse there civic.where is it

civdef

Take any moderation queries to Feedback - infraction for back seat modding to darren254.

wicklaman83

civdef wrote: »

Take any moderation queries to Feedback - infraction for back seat modding to darren254.

typical dont like their decisions questioned.it was just a query.wasnt trying to be smart

480905

civdef wrote: »

Take any moderation queries to Feedback - infraction for back seat modding to darren254.

Thank you Darren254 . Explained myself to civdef but he has yet to respond. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING PERSONAL MEANT to karlitosway.I get paid from Killarney as well, Despite the fact he / she personally abuses me in another thread but That's his /her problem.But I'm bigger than that.

will try to be of help to any possible candidates

civdef

Eh, I replied at the time, check your inbox!

480905

Got that . Good stuff. Fair minded is all thats needed . Thanks for that

Eru

480905 wrote: »

Thank you Darren254 . Explained myself to civdef but he has yet to respond. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING PERSONAL MEANT to karlitosway.I get paid from Killarney as well, Despite the fact he / she personally abuses me in another thread but That's his /her problem.But I'm bigger than that.

will try to be of help to any possible candidates

I responded to you in that manner because you have on countless occasions attacked the entire force of An Garda Siochana and on that particular occasion waited well after thread was dead to attack Metman (which had just left the site, coincidence? I think not) for far less than you are guilty of yourself. Maybe its just me but I defend my colleagues when I think they deserve it.

Regardless, your comments concerning pay was incorrect, the maximum payment is more 52000 per annum with every conceivable extra payment added in bringing you to 72000 per annum. The fact that you cant actually earn all that money unless you fail to take any leave and are never, ever sick AND work every single escort going AND also manage (while on these escorts) to get paid position allowances for certain positions AND also get sent on courses that are overnight allowance payable seems to have slipped many minds and been overlooked. More than that, you dont get paid for OT unless you work it. Its a requirement, when you sign up your hours you work them. Why would they not bring you in if they have to pay you? That makes no sense.

So, when adding all that up I dont consider 72000 per annum after 30 years of service in a dangerous, often boring and above all, life expectany draining job much reward. Clearly based on the original post, many people agree with me

480905

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

I responded to you in that manner because you have on countless occasions attacked the entire force of An Garda Siochana and on that particular occasion waited well after thread was dead to attack Metman (which had just left the site, coincidence? I think not) for far less than you are guilty of yourself. Maybe its just me but I defend my colleagues when I think they deserve it.

Regardless, your comments concerning pay was incorrect, the maximum payment is more 52000 per annum with every conceivable extra payment added in bringing you to 72000 per annum. The fact that you cant actually earn all that money unless you fail to take any leave and are never, ever sick AND work every single escort going AND also manage (while on these escorts) to get paid position allowances for certain positions AND also get sent on courses that are overnight allowance payable seems to have slipped many minds and been overlooked. More than that, you dont get paid for OT unless you work it. Its a requirement, when you sign up your hours you work them. Why would they not bring you in if they have to pay you? That makes no sense

Plain and simply wrong. You have your facts wrong.It doesn't matter what you think makes sense or not,they are the terms of the deal that was signed up to by most prison officers.So check out your facts first before you respond to this.

Paulzx

Have to say i don't like the idea of compulsory overtime. There's plenty of overtime in my job if you want but you can take it or leave it without any consequences. I wouldn't like to sign up to a set amount of hours overtime every year. I presume as its compulsory it is pensionable which is about the only advantage i can see. I'm sure it suits many officers but it wouldn't be my cup of tea.

I know the present system was brought in to try and reduce the overall overtime bill in the prison service and it seems to have achieved that objective

Eru

Paul,
OT in the Prisons and Gardai was always pensionable. Used to be the last three years of your service, still is in the Gardai. Might have changed in the prisons.

Numbers,
I assume then that you agree with the rest of my comments? And what about being called in to cover someone who is sick without it being paid as OT? Hardly a good working practice to encourage staff. As for OT, the agreement is not the issue, the agreement is the reality. I dont know a single employer who pays staff for hours not worked or are you refering to 'standyby' days? Thats a different kettle of fish.

You asked a question, I answered. Its obvious you think its a fantastic job in all aspects and one we should all aspire to, why not simple state your reasons for this belief instead of asking why people dont want to be prison officers then slamming us for it?

Oh and if anyone is interested both the prisons and Garda reserves are on www.pyblicjobs.ie at the moment. Closing date 09/10/08, starting pay 25,000.

deadwood

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

Oh and if anyone is interested both the prisons and Garda reserves are on www.pyblicjobs.ie at the moment. Closing date 09/10/08, starting pay 25,000.

Not bad!

I may be corrected (and i've no doubt, I will, Karlitosway;)) but isn't the Garda Pension now calculated on your highest earning 3 years from your final 10?

I better get the finger out!!!:eek:

480905

All pensionable as far as I know, and the time off is another bonus. Before the new system ,you could be called in the day before and have no choice to work unless you wanted to face disciplinary action for not showing up.

480905

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

Paul,
OT in the Prisons and Gardai was always pensionable. Used to be the last three years of your service, still is in the Gardai. Might have changed in the prisons.

No change .All the older lads coming up to the DAY you'll see them banging in the hours and their weekends to bring up the few quid for the pension.

Well at least we agree on something K 1978......

Eru

deadwood wrote: »

Not bad!

I may be corrected (and i've no doubt, I will, Karlitosway;)) but isn't the Garda Pension now calculated on your highest earning 3 years from your final 10?

I better get the finger out!!!:eek:

Hmmm, maybe your right. Your an older fart than me smart ass!

deadwood

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

Hmmm, maybe your right. Your an older fart than me smart ass!

The force is strong in this one.

480905

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

I responded to you in that manner because you have on countless occasions attacked the entire force of An Garda Siochana and on that particular occasion waited well after thread was dead to attack Metman (which had just left the site, coincidence? I think not) for far less than you are guilty of yourself. Maybe its just me but I defend my colleagues when I think they deserve it.

Regardless, your comments concerning pay was incorrect, the maximum payment is more 52000 per annum with every conceivable extra payment added in bringing you to 72000 per annum. The fact that you cant actually earn all that money unless you fail to take any leave and are never, ever sick AND work every single escort going AND also manage (while on these escorts) to get paid position allowances for certain positions AND also get sent on courses that are overnight allowance payable seems to have slipped many minds and been overlooked. More than that, you dont get paid for OT unless you work it. Its a requirement, when you sign up your hours you work them. Why would they not bring you in if they have to pay you? That makes no sense.

So, when adding all that up I dont consider 72000 per annum after 30 years of service in a dangerous, often boring and above all, life expectany draining job much reward. Clearly based on the original post, many people agree with me

HI k 1978,
Well ,Me ould Flower , did you check out your facts yet? Or will I point out more inaccuracies in the above mentioned post in regards to "positional allowances".... whatever they are????? Or what can be inferred from your absence I wonder?

TheNog

deadwood wrote: »

The force is strong in this one.

Dangerous, he is.

Eru

480905 wrote: »

HI k 1978,
Well ,Me ould Flower , did you check out your facts yet? Or will I point out more inaccuracies in the above mentioned post in regards to "positional allowances".... whatever they are????? Or what can be inferred from your absence I wonder?

What absense? Im here too much as it is.

480905

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

What absense? Im here too much as it is.

Howiya K 1978
You're dead right man. You're still here and still haven't learned how to spell. I EVEN SHOWED YOU and you still got it wrong.ALL this after you verbally abused me in another thread (public order) ,where you told me to learn some GRAMMER........I think you'll find my GRAMMAR is not the worst but my spelling is top notch.
Any luck with the fact finding???? NOTE .... I haven't resorted to name calling but I'd hope not to lower myself.

Eru

480905 wrote: »

Howiya K 1978
You're dead right man. You're still here and still haven't learned how to spell. I EVEN SHOWED YOU and you still got it wrong.ALL this after you verbally abused me in another thread (public order) ,where you told me to learn some GRAMMER........I think you'll find my GRAMMAR is not the worst but my spelling is top notch.
Any luck with the fact finding???? NOTE .... I haven't resorted to name calling but I'd hope not to lower myself.

OK, before I put you on the ignore list as you seem to offer nothing as far as I can see.

You attacked metman 2 months after his post and, coincidently after he had said farewell to the site. You waited a few weeks before attacking my post as well which was an honest answer to your question. You also made remarks that were insulting towards ALL Gardai that use this site so thats why I said what I said, I dont take it back either. In fact I strongly suspect your whole purpose here is to goad me into another comment.

So, before I end up on that road, bye bye and welcome to my ignore list

metman

480905 wrote: »

Howiya K 1978
You're dead right man. You're still here and still haven't learned how to spell. I EVEN SHOWED YOU and you still got it wrong.ALL this after you verbally abused me in another thread (public order) ,where you told me to learn some GRAMMER........I think you'll find my GRAMMAR is not the worst but my spelling is top notch.
Any luck with the fact finding???? NOTE .... I haven't resorted to name calling but I'd hope not to lower myself.

I think you need to give the deliberate goading of Karlito a rest. He rightly picked you up on your somewhat spineless attack on me when I left the site for a stint. If you really are a Prison Officer you should have a bit more common sense than what your posts seem to indicate. I'll be flagging your last post up to the mods as I'm getting sick of reading your trolling as regards a good mate and a solid contributor to this forum; Karlito.

If all you want to do is troll, well the mods will address that.

DenMan

Some nice responses there guys. Anybody like to talk about what the prison service is like to work for? After spending 2 weeks in Strangways it was a career I really thought about. There is no doubt it is a very rewarding and fulfilling career for those who wish to pursue it.

No more personal attacks please. I believe someone mentioned if you have a problem with somebody's post, then please feel free to take it to feedback or contact the mods.

Thanks to all who replied.

rasper

Don't figure that public sector overtime is as tough as real world work, sure an 11 hour day is long but not so bad if 4 of those hours are on break or semi break,
prisons should be privatised, course we'd hear all two tier penal systems then wouldn't

Eru

rasper wrote: »

Don't figure that public sector overtime is as tough as real world work, sure an 11 hour day is long but not so bad if 4 of those hours are on break or semi break,
prisons should be privatised, course we'd hear all two tier penal systems then wouldn't

Real world work? Yeah, I sat in an office, it was really tough sometimes the air con broke down or we had to go down stairs to get a coffee :rolleyes:

Thats why I got out, I saw those Gardai walking around at 4am in the middle of January while getting p*ssed on then having to wade in and break up fights or deal with junkies and robbers. I saw that and said to myself, hmmm, I reckon thats ten times better than trying to work out how to use the new photocopier.

What sector and occupation do you work in? Guaranteed its not an office now because you know its easy to rip office work apart for the easy number it is.

And try to remember that public sector doesnt have the same rights under labour law, health and safety law or even equal union rights and representation. But sure, if we have it so easy and are paid so well for **** all work, whos the idiot? US or you?

FGR

You DMRers and your massive OT cheques. Shame on you! We all know Dublin is the quietest city on Earth! :rolleyes:

djtechnics1210

ForegoneReality wrote: »

You DMRers and your massive OT cheques. Shame on you! We all know Dublin is the quietest city on Earth! :rolleyes:

All the massive ot has ran out since this blasted recession, no more big spends every month, packed lunches all the way :(. Ah its a nice quiet city all the same