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What was your religious circumstance, when you embraced Atheism?

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24

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    #32
    kelly1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    ChocolateSauce wrote: »
    It was funny though, even though I believed in god I didn't consider myself a Christian, or anything.
    Out of curiosity CS, why did you believe in God?


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    #33
    ChocolateSauce
    Registered Users Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭ChocolateSauce


    kelly1 wrote: »
    Out of curiosity CS, why did you believe in God?

    Please don't misunderstand, I also believed in Santa and the Tooth Fairy at the time. I believed in them because my mother lied to me to make the world a slightly more magical place for a small child. It is literally true when I say I lost my belief in Santa and god at the same moment. In that sense it was a very non-theistic faith, and that is why I wasn't a Christian. I was, however, aware that I was surrounded by Christians.


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    #34
    kelly1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    ChocolateSauce wrote: »
    Please don't misunderstand, I also believed in Santa and the Tooth Fairy at the time. I believed in them because my mother lied to me to make the world a slightly more magical place for a small child. It is literally true when I say I lost my belief in Santa and god at the same moment. In that sense it was a very non-theistic faith, and that is why I wasn't a Christian. I was, however, aware that I was surrounded by Christians.
    OK, I see. You're not the first person who said they lost faith in God after finding out about Santa!


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    #35
    CerebralCortex
    Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭CerebralCortex


    kelly1 wrote: »
    OK, I see. You're not the first person who said they lost faith in God after finding out about Santa!

    Do you make a distinction between belief and faith?


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    #36
    ChocolateSauce
    Registered Users Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭ChocolateSauce


    kelly1 wrote: »
    OK, I see. You're not the first person who said they lost faith in God after finding out about Santa!

    I know. I feel a lot less special since I discovered I wasn't alone.


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    #37
    Weidii
    Closed Accounts Posts: 842 ✭✭✭Weidii


    I was brought up in a fairly agnostic environment, my parents never really talked about nor expressed their views on religion. I was sent to a catholic primary school, which managed to scare me into being devoutly religious for most of my childhood (prayers every morning and night, etc)

    I remember when I went to be confirmed I just had a bit of a revelation in my head that it was all a load of BS. I didn't answer the question things they call out (do you renounce the devil, and all that business) as I had decided for sure that it was all a farce.

    I'm glad I came to that realisation as I'm now studying zoology and palaentology, which would be a bit of a struggle if I was close minded towards the idea of evolution.


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    #38
    Tim Robbins
    Registered Users Posts: 8,959 ✭✭✭Tim Robbins


    i was a devout Roman Catholic up until aboout 12. Then one day in secondary school, the Priest came in and wrote down all these other religions on the blackboard. I asked him how can they all be correct if they are all different. He couldn't give a good answer so my faith in a particular religion was pretty much shattered. I thought they were all mumbo jumbo, even if there was some sort of God. I was agnostic. The only time I wavered was when my Uncle died at about 14 and I thought I felt something special at his funneral and when another Priest came to our school who I got very well with. He had similar interests and was absolutely hillarious.

    I occasionally prayed to Saint Anthony up until my 20's when I couldn't find something, even though I didn't believe in Religion / God etc. I went from agnostic to atheist after reading Mr. Russell. Especially that Flying Teapot argument. I became an Orthodox Atheist after reading a very wide range of material from Philosophy to Science to Christian Apologetics such as C.S. Lewis. I am convinced there is something in the human condition which just needs to believe and will find all sorts of reasons to rationalise the irrational, and that's just it.

    You're conciousness is isolated and be a lonely, stressful place. Believing in a God which can enter that and know everything you're thinking, feeling and cares about you seems to alleviate some of the problems the isolated part of our conciousness causes.


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    #39
    kelly1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    CerebralCortex wrote: »
    Do you make a distinction between belief and faith?
    Good question. I think faith is more than belief. Faith is a gift from God, whereas belief is only intellectual. I think faith also involves trust which belief doesn't necessarily carry. Hard to describe really!
    Tim Robbins wrote: »
    i was a devout Roman Catholic up until aboout 12. Then one day in secondary school, the Priest came in and wrote down all these other religions on the blackboard. I asked him how can they all be correct if they are all different. He couldn't give a good answer so my faith in a particular religion was pretty much shattered.
    Logic alone would tell you that they can't all be right but of course that doesn't mean none is true.
    Tim Robbins wrote: »
    I occasionally prayed to Saint Anthony up until my 20's when I couldn't find something, even though I didn't believe in Religion / God etc. I went from agnostic to atheist after reading Mr. Russell. Especially that Flying Teapot argument. I became an Orthodox Atheist after reading a very wide range of material from Philosophy to Science to Christian Apologetics such as C.S. Lewis.
    Maybe you didn't and don't have the theological knowledge to refute their clever arguments? What do you think?
    Tim Robbins wrote: »
    I am convinced there is something in the human condition which just needs to believe and will find all sorts of reasons to rationalise the irrational, and that's just it.
    Or it could be that belief in God is inbuilt and has to be supressed to get to the point where you no longer believe in God.


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    #40
    CerebralCortex
    Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭CerebralCortex


    kelly1 wrote: »
    Or it could be that belief in God is inbuilt and has to be supressed to get to the point where you no longer believe in God.

    I'll think you'll find thats just what he said. Or when you say "built in" you mean put their by the god of catholicism? Do you believe every single person on earth is a roman catholic in waiting?


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    #41
    kelly1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    CerebralCortex wrote: »
    I'll think you'll find thats just what he said. Or when you say "built in" you mean put their by the god of catholicism? Do you believe every single person on earth is a roman catholic in waiting?
    What I meant was that belief in God or a Supreme Being is programmed into us by God. I said nothing about Catholicism and there is only one God.


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    #42
    CerebralCortex
    Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭CerebralCortex


    kelly1 wrote: »
    ...I said nothing about Catholicism and there is only one God.

    Thats why I asked. So is everyone in your opinion a catholic in waiting? For example a muslim imam has responded to this inbuilt belief by the "one god" quite zealously but by misfortune of geography is doing it the wrong way or even for the wrong god?


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    #43
    kelly1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    CerebralCortex wrote: »
    Thats why I asked. So is everyone in your opinion a catholic in waiting? For example a muslim imam has responded to this inbuilt belief by the "one god" quite zealously but by misfortune of geography is doing it the wrong way or even for the wrong god?
    I'm not sure what you mean about catholics in waiting...

    The Muslim is responding to the inherent tendency to seek God but not in the way that God wants. Of course there are millions of Muslims who sincerely seek the will of God but they have been misled. But their hearts are in the right place.


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    #44
    Mena
    Registered Users Posts: 3,180 ✭✭✭Mena


    kelly1 wrote: »
    I'm not sure what you mean about catholics in waiting...

    The Muslim is responding to the inherent tendency to seek God but not in the way that God wants. Of course there are millions of Muslims who sincerely seek the will of God but they have been misled. But their hearts are in the right place.

    How do you know this? Is it not just a little arrogant to think your version is correct and their version is wrong?

    You do know they feel the same way about your religion.


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    #45
    Zillah
    Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    kelly1 wrote: »
    What I meant was that belief in God or a Supreme Being is programmed into us by God.

    Wait, what? What happened all that freewill silliness?


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    #46
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    kelly1 wrote: »
    I'm not sure what you mean about catholics in waiting...

    The Muslim is responding to the inherent tendency to seek God but not in the way that God wants. Of course there are millions of Muslims who sincerely seek the will of God but they have been misled. But their hearts are in the right place.

    Isn't it just as likely that they are in fact correct and it is you that has been mislead?


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    #47
    CursedSkeptic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 137 ✭✭CursedSkeptic


    I never embraced atheism. It seems ridiculous that one would decide that they don't believe in god and religion and then start identifying themselves as and atheist and "embracing" it. It makes a lot more sense to me at least to eliminate any religious element from ones life, once one has decided that it is not meaningful. I realise that I am posting on an atheist forum, and that the ironing is indeed delicious, but ara sure fukit


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    #48
    Goduznt Xzst
    Registered Users Posts: 1,353 ✭✭✭Goduznt Xzst


    CursedSkeptic wrote: »
    I never embraced atheism. It seems ridiculous that one would decide that they don't believe in god and religion and then start identifying themselves as and atheist and "embracing" it. It makes a lot more sense to me at least to eliminate any religious element from ones life, once one has decided that it is not meaningful. I realise that I am posting on an atheist forum, and that the ironing is indeed delicious, but ara sure fukit

    Isn't the part I have highlighted there the very definition of Atheism. Once you stop believing in Gods you are an Atheist.

    definition:

    Atheist: Someone who denies the existence of god


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    #49
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    I'd imagine CursedSkeptic was referring to the 'embracing' atheism aspect, rather than merely identifying yourself as one.

    I wouldn't say posting here qualifies as "embracing" though.


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    #50
    gramlab
    Registered Users Posts: 408 ✭✭gramlab


    Parents never bothered much ewith it. Took us to mass when we were young, but I think that was more out of some obligation they felt.

    Can't pinpoint exactly when, but I have to say that the way religion was taught and preached in RC churches and schools definitely affected my early thinking about religion/God as a whole (negatively).

    I dont think I embraced any athiest/agnostic beliefs to begin with as I was too young to know what they meant. I just started to question everything really.


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    #51
    Tim Robbins
    Registered Users Posts: 8,959 ✭✭✭Tim Robbins


    kelly1 wrote: »
    Logic alone would tell you that they can't all be right but of course that doesn't mean none is true.
    Logic would also say, look for some evidence without emotional, political and cultural bias. Sadly no religion has any.
    Maybe you didn't and don't have the theological knowledge to refute their clever arguments? What do you think?
    I have never heard any refutation. Maybe you don't differentiate between logic and sophistry / confabulation.
    Or it could be that belief in God is inbuilt and has to be supressed to get to the point where you no longer believe in God.
    I wouldn't say "supressed". I'd say, upon rational examination you can no longer believe in God. It doesn't matter what's in - built. What matters is what's true.


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    #52
    kelly1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    gramlab wrote: »
    Parents never bothered much ewith it. Took us to mass when we were young, but I think that was more out of some obligation they felt.
    I think this is sadly very true.
    gramlab wrote: »
    Can't pinpoint exactly when, but I have to say that the way religion was taught and preached in RC churches and schools definitely affected my early thinking about religion/God as a whole (negatively).
    Do you mean too much emphasis on sin/damnation and not enough on love/mercy? This is one of the great tragedies of the Irish Church. So many have come to believe God is vengeful and tyrannical. Not so.


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    #53
    ChocolateSauce
    Registered Users Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭ChocolateSauce


    kelly1 wrote: »
    So many have come to believe God is vengeful and tyrannical. Not so.

    But the bible says he is, as does the old testament.

    Of course I'm very much aware that most people who call themselves Christian don't follow the bible.


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    #54
    kelly1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    Tim Robbins wrote: »
    Logic would also say, look for some evidence without emotional, political and cultural bias. Sadly no religion has any.
    Christianity isn't about any of those things.
    Tim Robbins wrote: »
    I have never heard any refutation. Maybe you don't differentiate between logic and sophistry / confabulation.
    Reason alone won't bring you to God. You have to be open to the possibility of something greater than yourself. God will come to you when you open the door of your heart to Him.
    Tim Robbins wrote: »
    I wouldn't say "supressed". I'd say, upon rational examination you can no longer believe in God. It doesn't matter what's in - built. What matters is what's true.
    I've also used rational examination and I find nothing in Christianity that's contradicts reason. But haven't you chosen to believe that God doesn't exist? Wouldn't it be more honest to be agnostic because you can't prove that He doesn't exist? Atheism is just a lack of belief but I find it untenable because of the amount of circumstantial evidence that points to a Creator. There is plenty of evidence if you look that points to God but no evidence whatever for flying teapots etc.

    If someone really wanted to find God, to find out the answer to the ultimate question of life, why don't they try a bit harder? What about Pascal's wager?

    Why not read the lives of the saints or talk to a doctor who has witnessed a miracle of talk to an exorcist? It's not rock solid proof but it's very hard to ignore.


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    #55
    studiorat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,408 ✭✭✭studiorat


    kelly1 wrote: »

    If someone really wanted to find God, to find out the answer to the ultimate question of life, why don't they try a bit harder? What about Pascal's wager?

    Surely god would see through Pascal's wager. I mean believing just in case god actually does exist. What's the point in that?

    Like I've said before a better plan would be to say "well the evidence wasn't particularly good was it?"

    Saints are two a penny these days, maybe 50% of the doctors might believe in a miracle. Now I'd love to meet a real live exorcist and see him at work!


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    #56
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    kelly1 wrote: »
    There is plenty of evidence if you look that points to God
    Of course you have to want to see it, right?


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    #57
    CerebralCortex
    Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭CerebralCortex


    kelly1 wrote: »
    Christianity isn't about any of those things.

    You have to be joking.
    kelly1 wrote: »
    Reason alone won't bring you to God.

    Religious constructs, institutions depend on that.
    kelly1 wrote: »
    You have to be open to the possibility of something greater than yourself.....

    Who says "we" aren't open to something greater than ourselves. Sorry but your god I don't associate with greatness.
    kelly1 wrote: »
    I've also used rational examination and I find nothing in Christianity that's contradicts reason. But haven't you chosen to believe that God doesn't exist? Wouldn't it be more honest to be agnostic because you can't prove that He doesn't exist? Atheism is just a lack of belief but I find it untenable because of the amount of circumstantial evidence that points to a Creator. There is plenty of evidence if you look that points to God but no evidence whatever for flying teapots etc.

    Evidence points to a creator once you stop looking and forsake thought on the subject hence christianity, islam etc.
    kelly1 wrote: »
    If someone really wanted to find God, to find out the answer to the ultimate question of life, why don't they try a bit harder? What about Pascal's wager?

    From what you I know of you Kelly1 I can't understand why you would suggest Pascal's wager. For starters which god would you pick?
    kelly1 wrote: »
    Why not read the lives of the saints or talk to a doctor who has witnessed a miracle of talk to an exorcist? It's not rock solid proof but it's very hard to ignore.

    Its rock solid proof of something, but once upon a time we wondered why the sun set and rose and then we found out what was going on.


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    #58
    ChocolateSauce
    Registered Users Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭ChocolateSauce


    kelly1 wrote: »
    I've also used rational examination and I find nothing in Christianity that's contradicts reason.

    So how do you explain an all loving, all powerful and all merciful god allowing people whom he made to be evil to suffer infinite punishment for finite crimes?

    How is that rational?


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    #59
    kelly1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    studiorat wrote: »
    Surely god would see through Pascal's wager. I mean believing just in case god actually does exist. What's the point in that?
    True, it's a poor argument but I do atheists really think about the possibility that they could end up in hell for eternity? All good comes from God and to reject therefore means to reject all good and that's what hell is!
    studiorat wrote: »
    Like I've said before a better plan would be to say "well the evidence wasn't particularly good was it?"
    And God might just say to you "I kept ringing the door-bell but you wouldn't answer - you were too busy watching TV. You've missed the bus!"
    Dades wrote: »
    Of course you have to want to see it, right?
    Yes and what's wrong with a willingness to accept that there could be a greater being than ourselves in the universe? It's the intelligent thing to do!


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    #60
    kelly1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    CerebralCortex wrote: »
    You have to be joking.
    I'm not.
    CerebralCortex wrote: »
    Who says "we" aren't open to something greater than ourselves. Sorry but your god I don't associate with greatness.
    Are you actively seeking something greater than yourself? Have you asked God to reveal himself to you leaving pride at the door?
    CerebralCortex wrote: »
    Evidence points to a creator once you stop looking and forsake thought on the subject hence christianity, islam etc.
    And why are you so convinced that there is a rational/natural explanation for everything? Do you dismiss all miracles automatically?
    CerebralCortex wrote: »
    From what you I know of you Kelly1 I can't understand why you would suggest Pascal's wager. For starters which god would you pick?
    Agreed, I already posted on this point.
    CerebralCortex wrote: »
    Its rock solid proof of something, but once upon a time we wondered why the sun set and rose and then we found out what was going on.
    Why so much faith in science? There are still HUGE questions that science can't answer.
    ChocolateSauce wrote: »
    So how do you explain an all loving, all powerful and all merciful god allowing people whom he made to be evil to suffer infinite punishment for finite crimes?
    God made nobody evil. Where did you get that idea???


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    #61
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    kelly1 wrote: »
    There are still HUGE questions that science can't answer.
    Like why otherwise normal folk, who have the faculties to operate heavy machinery, can honestly believe the universe is less than 10,000 years old!


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