Student Fees in relation to the Student Centre Extension

MizzLolly

Evening folks,

just been in the Tierney building there trying to sort out my fees, I asked how come last year I only had to pay 103euro (I've got the grant \o/), when this year it is 150euro.

I was a bit stunned by the lady's reply. She told me about some referendum a few years ago (before I started in UCD) that meant students were required to pay for the 'extension' of the current student centre. This is something I haven't heard of until today. Apparently, that 150euro that my grant wont cover is my payment ''for the new student centre building that still hasn't been built''.

She then expressed her dispproval at the whole thing and said that, at the time, it was a big deal on campus and all the students were asked to vote.

I'm just posting for more information on it all to be pefectly honest. I know very little about it and I'd like to know more. If, in a nutshell, students are forced to pay for the building of a new student centre (that still hasn't been started), then it is a disgrace but surely there's more to it than that? Is there?

I don't want to form an opinion on it one way or another until I actually know what's what but I don't particularily want to pay for something that I had no say in to begin with.

View/opinions etc.. please

Thomas_S_Hunterson

It is a bit stupid. The current facilities don't appear to be under any strain at all.

MizzLolly

Sean_K wrote: »

It is a bit stupid. The current facilities don't appear to be under any strain at all.

So is this all true?

Is the euro150 fee there in order to pay for a centre that doesn't exsist?

I apologise if I come across as ignorant here but I genuinely was not aware of this until today. Surely I'm not the only student who doesn't know the 'ins and outs' of the whole situation.





either that or I need to pay more attention!

Thomas_S_Hunterson

MizzLolly wrote: »

So is this all true?

Is the euro150 fee there in order to pay for a centre that doesn't exsist?

I apologise if I come across as ignorant here but I genuinely was not aware of this until today. Surely I'm not the only student who doesn't know the 'ins and outs' of the whole situation.





either that or I need to pay more attention!

Yup it's true, I believe it's itemised on the website when you go to pay.

delta_bravo

I thought it was for the existing centre? The whole thing is crazy. That building is under 10 years old and will basically be obsolete 'when' the new one is built.

MizzLolly

Oooh I see!! :eek:


Have there been any kind of protests to it? Have the SU become involved/said anything on the matter?

33% God

It's going to have a ****load of new facilities, including a new swimming pool and, I believe, a gym and it'll be free for you because of the money you put towards the building of it.

MizzLolly

33% God wrote: »

It's going to have a ****load of new facilities, including a new swimming pool and, I believe, a gym and it'll be free for you because of the money you put towards the building of it.

That's hardly what can be called 'free'.

33% God

MizzLolly wrote: »

That's hardly what can be called 'free'.

As in you won't have to pay membership.
Nobody likes a pendant.

rainbow kirby

MizzLolly wrote: »

I was a bit stunned by the lady's reply. She told me about some referendum a few years ago (before I started in UCD) that meant students were required to pay for the 'extension' of the current student centre. This is something I haven't heard of until today. Apparently, that 150euro that my grant wont cover is my payment ''for the new student centre building that still hasn't been built''.

She then expressed her dispproval at the whole thing and said that, at the time, it was a big deal on campus and all the students were asked to vote.

Ah, I remember voting a big fat NO on this one. It passed because most UCD students are completely apathetic about stuff like this, especially when they think "ah I'll be gone, it won't affect me".

Tbh - the SU has *much* bigger issues it could be working on than building a bigger Student Centre. But as we all know student politics is about ego-stroking rather than dealing with real issues.

The_Minister

MizzLolly wrote: »

Oooh I see!! :eek:


Have there been any kind of protests to it? Have the SU become involved/said anything on the matter?

The SU are behind the move.

Dun-Dun-Dunnnnnn

Breezer

Rainbow kirby, while I agree with you that many UCD students are apathetic about anything they're asked to vote on, some people did actually support the building of a new centre. Please don't label me and others like me as apathetic simply because we disagreed with you.

MizzLolly, I understand that you find it annoying that you had no say, but the students at the time decided for the student body, of which you are now part. You didn't have any say in Ireland joining the EU either but here we are. At some point a decision has to be made on things, and they'll inevitably affect people further down the line. At least the students at the time had a say on the issue; in my old school we were forced to pay for a new school building on which work was due to commence in 2002: the work still hasn't started.

The new centre will provide substantially improved, purpose-built facilities for student societies, as well as the aforementioned gym and swimming pool. I haven't been able to dig up any of the old information brochures on the SU website, I'm sure some of the more active union members on here will throw some up before long.

Red Alert

I'd prefer the L&H to fund its own "House of Lords" mockup thank you very much.

Things like a swimming pool are standard kit in all major european universities ... i suspect the vote would have been NO only that people knew this was the only chance of getting a pool.

gubbie

The referendum was held in the spring of 2007. What I've learned from my time in UCD that if ANYTHING goes wrong, the finger is pointed at the SU. The student union were about 50:50 on it, with half it's active members being for, and half against. Infact it was the clubs and societies that rallied together in support of it. I was an officer at the time and we had a speech about it from the man involved. I can tell you this whole thing was met with quite a bit of disapproval from the lot of us due to the lack of concrete information that they would give us, like when it'd be done (they initially gave us a date of building work would start in June 2008) and if we'd get anything out of it for having to pay for it. At the time, not one person in the room would have benefited from paying for it. Total costs rank up to about 300 useless euros in my case

I myself was against it. I have nothing against them building a new building but what I didn't get was why we, a group of people who don't get to use it, have to pay for it.

We will get 3-6 months membership only of the gym, depending on how many years we spent paying for it. Its due to be completed in December 2010

Breezer

Red Alert wrote: »

I'd prefer the L&H to fund its own "House of Lords" mockup thank you very much.

Not in the L & H myself but I've no problem with the student body as a whole funding facilities for student societies. Without them, life in UCD would be pretty boring.

MizzLolly

33% God wrote: »

As in you won't have to pay membership.
Nobody likes a pendant.

Really?!

Breezer wrote: »

Rainbow kirby, while I agree with you that many UCD students are apathetic about anything they're asked to vote on, some people did actually support the building of a new centre. Please don't label me and others like me as apathetic simply because we disagreed with you.

MizzLolly, I understand that you find it annoying that you had no say, but the students at the time decided for the student body, of which you are now part. You didn't have any say in Ireland joining the EU either but here we are. At some point a decision has to be made on things, and they'll inevitably affect people further down the line. At least the students at the time had a say on the issue; in my old school we were forced to pay for a new school building on which work was due to commence in 2002: the work still hasn't started.
The new centre will provide substantially improved, purpose-built facilities for student societies, as well as the aforementioned gym and swimming pool. I haven't been able to dig up any of the old information brochures on the SU website, I'm sure some of the more active union members on here will throw some up before long.

Everything I've put in bold here is a cause of concern for me. I'm beginning to understand why the girl today was so annoyed by it all. You say I'm part of the student body which voted 'yes' to this so I should just grin and bare it?! I wasn't even in UCD when this happened, it has nothing to do with me, I most likely wont benefit from it and yet I have to contribute to the payment of it??

You say we're lucky that we're not forced to pay it? As far as I can see, I am being forced to pay for it. I must pay the euro150 registration fee (that conveniently the grant wont cover) in order to cover the cost of something I had no say in?

I was refused a new student card today and told that I would not get one until that euro150 is paid, how do you figure I have not been forced to pay this?


Breezer, I understand your point, I know that in your own opinion, the student body voted 'yes' and I am part of the student body. I'm not making a dig at you in slightest but I don't think any of it is fair. Can you appreciate it on a more personal level? I mentioned already I'm on the grant, if my financial situation enables me to recieve the government grant, do you really think I appreciate being told that I have to pay for something I wont benefit from and that I had no say in? It is wasted money to me personally, yet I have to pay it.


When exactly do they plan on even starting this new centre?

And why does the grant not cover it? That seems crazy! I'd have no problem paying that money if I thought it actually was a 'registration' fee but it's not. It's there in order to pay for some decision I don't agree with in the first place..:eek:

Again, not attacking anyone and Breezer don't take it personally, I'm just not convinced by the whole 'project'. Opinions are appreciated and Breezer if you feel you have answers to my above questions please feel free to share them aswell.

Breezer

MizzLolly, I do appreciate where you're coming from, absolutely. Unfortunately, that's the way democracy of any description works. I had no say in whether or not Ireland joined the EU because I wasn't born. Similarly, to use a more recent example, I did have a say last year as to which political parties formed the government. If you look at my sig, you'll see that I quite clearly didn't get what I wanted. On a personal level, I might object to a Minister for Education whom I didn't vote for strongly hinting that I'll have to pay college fees in the near future. But if it comes to that, and he won't budge, then I'll have to grin and bear it because the people of Ireland, which includes me, collectively put this man and his party into Office.

The grant doesn't cover it because it was brought in only to cover the registration fee. Similarly, the Free Fees initiative only covers tuition fees, which is why I have had to pay a higher and higher registration fee every year. Again, that's political agreements for you.

Now, on a much more personal level: if you genuinely feel you will have difficulty paying this then there is a student hardship fund administered by the SU. If you have a talk with the Welfare Officer then the Union may be able to do something for you, that's what the fund is there for

gubbie

MizzLolly wrote: »

Really?!



Everything I've put in bold here is a cause of concern for me. I'm beginning to understand why the girl today was so annoyed by it all. You say I'm part of the student body which voted 'yes' to this so I should just grin and bare it?! I wasn't even in UCD when this happened, it has nothing to do with me, I most likely wont benefit from it and yet I have to contribute to the payment of it??

You say we're lucky that we're not forced to pay it? As far as I can see, I am being forced to pay for it. I must pay the euro150 registration fee (that conveniently the grant wont cover) in order to cover the cost of something I had no say in?

I was refused a new student card today and told that I would not get one until that euro150 is paid, how do you figure I have not been forced to pay this?


Breezer, I understand your point, I know that in your own opinion, the student body voted 'yes' and I am part of the student body. I'm not making a dig at you in slightest but I don't think any of it is fair. Can you appreciate it on a more personal level? I mentioned already I'm on the grant, if my financial situation enables me to recieve the government grant, do you really think I appreciate being told that I have to pay for something I wont benefit from and that I had no say in? It is wasted money to me personally, yet I have to pay it.


When exactly do they plan on even starting this new centre?

And why does the grant not cover it? That seems crazy! I'd have no problem paying that money if I thought it actually was a 'registration' fee but it's not. It's there in order to pay for some decision I don't agree with in the first place..:eek:

Again, not attacking anyone and Breezer don't take it personally, I'm just not convinced by the whole 'project'. Opinions are appreciated and Breezer if you feel you have answers to my above questions please feel free to share them aswell.

They're starting it next March. No you will not get free membership of the gym, but you will be allowed use say the debating room if you prebook it. And I really don't know why you are annoyed. 90% of the people who voted on it, payed money towards it, but will never get to use it (The other 10% being people who did postgrads or were doing medicine). Unless you're doing a 3 year degree and then hop out of here, you'll get to use it

delta_bravo

The one thing that really irks me about it is the 'debating chamber' that is planned. Whats the point? There are dozens of perfectly adequate theatres

MizzLolly

Breezer wrote: »

MizzLolly, I do appreciate where you're coming from, absolutely. Unfortunately, that's the way democracy of any description works. I had no say in whether or not Ireland joined the EU because I wasn't born. Similarly, to use a more recent example, I did have a say last year as to which political parties formed the government. If you look at my sig, you'll see that I quite clearly didn't get what I wanted. On a personal level, I might object to a Minister for Education whom I didn't vote for strongly hinting that I'll have to pay college fees in the near future. But if it comes to that, and he won't budge, then I'll have to grin and bear it because the people of Ireland, which includes me, collectively put this man and his party into Office.

The grant doesn't cover it because it was brought in only to cover the registration fee. Similarly, the Free Fees initiative only covers tuition fees, which is why I have had to pay a higher and higher registration fee every year. Again, that's political agreements for you.

Now, on a much more personal level: if you genuinely feel you will have difficulty paying this then there is a student hardship fund administered by the SU. If you have a talk with the Welfare Officer then the Union may be able to do something for you, that's what the fund is there for

Student hardship fund? Where exactly did you read that I cannot get the money for it? I said already I have the grant and I work. My issue isn't that I can't get the money to pay it, it's that I shouldn't have to pay so much on something I disagree with in the first place.

And it most definately should not be called a 'registration' fee.

gubbie wrote: »

They're starting it next March. No you will not get free membership of the gym, but you will be allowed use say the debating room if you prebook it. And I really don't know why you are annoyed. 90% of the people who voted on it, payed money towards it, but will never get to use it (The other 10% being people who did postgrads or were doing medicine). Unless you're doing a 3 year degree and then hop out of here, you'll get to use it

The statistics mean very little to me gubbie. I don't think putting a euro150 charge on a student who probably wont ever use it is fair. I can't see the debating room being of particular importance to me either

What about the students who do leave after a 3 year degree? How will they benefit?


I'd also like to hear a little more from the students who don't agree with the fee.. I'm interested in hearing both sides..

Blush_01

Ok, just one point I'd like to make, regarding paying for something you don't want to pay for... I don't particularly want to pay taxes to fund certain things, but in for a penny, in for a pound. You can't choose based on your own individual desires all the time. That's not how democratic societies work.

Pride Fighter

I cant afford the 150 as I am on a grant. I agree with the project but why should those less well off be forced to the edge of a cliff financially.

gubbie

MizzLolly wrote: »

The statistics mean very little to me gubbie. I don't think putting a euro150 charge on a student who probably wont ever use it is fair. I can't see the debating room being of particular importance to me either

What about the students who do leave after a 3 year degree? How will they benefit?

The point is, its not just "student", it's students. You are not alone in this. Would you prefer if I said that there will be about 40,000 people coming into this place that will pay for it, but never use it. Yes 22,000 of these got to choose, but about 4,000 of these voted and about 3,000 voted yes.

I'd also like to hear a little more from the students who don't agree with the fee.. I'm interested in hearing both sides..

If you bothered to read my other post you will see that I was on the no side. And I even gave you a breakdown of who was on the yes and no sides. But it has gotten to the stage where there are more important things to worry about then this €150 extra charge. And €150... you can make that in Ireland in 2 days working... or in a month in Kazakhstan

Riamfada

Gubbie, we all know that these elections tend to be voted in only by a small number of people who are already involved in the SU. Judging by the general trend of voter turnout 75% of people in UCD are either not interested or not informed. The other 25% are hacks .....

gubbie

Grimes wrote: »

Gubbie, we all know that these elections tend to be voted in only by a small number of people who are already involved in the SU. Judging by the general trend of voter turnout 75% of people in UCD are either not interested or not informed. The other 25% are hacks .....

You're saying that there's 5,500 hacks? Or by ... did you mean ...'s friends who the hacks managed to talk into voting

Breezer

MizzLolly wrote: »

Student hardship fund? Where exactly did you read that I cannot get the money for it? I said already I have the grant and I work. My issue isn't that I can't get the money to pay it, it's that I shouldn't have to pay so much on something I disagree with in the first place.

I've just read over the whole thread again and I can't see where you said you work. Admittedly it's 3am and I may have missed it. What you did say was:

I mentioned already I'm on the grant, if my financial situation enables me to recieve the government grant, do you really think I appreciate being told that I have to pay for something I wont benefit from and that I had no say in?

which to me suggested that finance was a worry for you and this was yet another expense. I'm sorry if I took you up wrong, I was only trying to be helpful, no offence meant.

But you need to realise that in a democratic society we sometimes have to do things we don't want to do, because the majority of people want to do them. Is it a fair system? Hell no. Is there a better system? None that I know of.

I can think of one alternative system for this particular situation: build the centre first, then place the levy on current and future students. I was not in any way involved with planning the project so I can only assume that capital was needed upfront, and that is why this wasn't done. In any case, the point is moot: the decision has been made.

This is exactly the same as a referendum being held when you are 17: you have no say, you may have voted the other way if you had had a say, but you still have to live with the result along with everyone else. I'm not trying to have a go at you here MizzLolly, I'm just trying to make the point that we all have to respect the workings of democracy, whether that's at a national level or within a college.

anonymous_joe

MizzLolly wrote: »

Evening folks,

just been in the Tierney building there trying to sort out my fees, I asked how come last year I only had to pay 103euro (I've got the grant \o/), when this year it is 150euro.

I was a bit stunned by the lady's reply. She told me about some referendum a few years ago (before I started in UCD) that meant students were required to pay for the 'extension' of the current student centre. This is something I haven't heard of until today. Apparently, that 150euro that my grant wont cover is my payment ''for the new student centre building that still hasn't been built''.

She then expressed her dispproval at the whole thing and said that, at the time, it was a big deal on campus and all the students were asked to vote.

I'm just posting for more information on it all to be pefectly honest. I know very little about it and I'd like to know more. If, in a nutshell, students are forced to pay for the building of a new student centre (that still hasn't been started), then it is a disgrace but surely there's more to it than that? Is there?

I don't want to form an opinion on it one way or another until I actually know what's what but I don't particularily want to pay for something that I had no say in to begin with.

View/opinions etc.. please

Aight, Lols.

In essence, we got fúcked.

UCD's organisation is a load of shíte. Numerous threads will prove that. What's particularly shameful though, is the treatment of students by the college. In UCD, we pay a €1000 or so 'registration' which pays for our membership of the student union. Now I'm drunk, so 'in vino veritas.' I did my leaving in 05. This is my fourth year in UCD. In all that time the people involved in SU politics have proved themselves a shower of self absorbed wánkers and prícks with no interests in anything other than themselves. (Ban me if you like, it's the truth.) The utter indifference of those people to ordinary students is beyond pathetic. They're scum. We as students are thus left to pay the bills for all of this crap. There's absolutely nothing we can do. It's unfair, and it's immoral. I hate it, but I'm helpless. And that is UCD for you. I would not recommend to a single person that they come here. Because this kind of behaviour is par for the course.

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Ah, I remember voting a big fat NO on this one. It passed because most UCD students are completely apathetic about stuff like this, especially when they think "ah I'll be gone, it won't affect me".

Tbh - the SU has *much* bigger issues it could be working on than building a bigger Student Centre. But as we all know student politics is about ego-stroking rather than dealing with real issues.

This is what I despise about our college.

Red Alert

The reason anybody voted for the damned thing was the swimming pool. Which leads me to think that the reason the pool was included in it was to essentially hold a hammer over the student body. Whether it was the SU or the college administration that thought up the idea I don't know. I'm sure the pool will be a nice facility when it's done, other than that, the centre is a white elephant. A debating chamber is patently not necessary, there are plenty of theatres, with more coming on stream. Neither are a few more of the hairbrained ideas included in that centre.

Trinity's pool is not run, built or controlled by the SU. Neither is DCU's - a very nice looking facility by the way. In fact I'd go so far as to say that the SU have no business or competence in being involved in sports facilities. It should have been built as a central part of the university infrastructure, as a stand-alone facility open to all with a student/staff card for possibly a nominal charge.

Stabshauptmann

here here

Breezer

anonymous_joe wrote: »

In all that time the people involved in SU politics have proved themselves a shower of self absorbed wánkers and prícks with no interests in anything other than themselves. (Ban me if you like, it's the truth.) The utter indifference of those people to ordinary students is beyond pathetic. They're scum. We as students are thus left to pay the bills for all of this crap. There's absolutely nothing we can do. It's unfair, and it's immoral. I hate it, but I'm helpless.

You're not helpless. If you don't like the way the union is run, vote for someone else, or get involved yourself and change things.

Red Alert

Red Alert wrote: »

Trinity's pool is not run, built or controlled by the SU.

The SU in Trinity has nothing to do with the Sports Clubs or Societies... however, back from around '98 to '02 there was a levy which Trinity students agreed to which was worth a couple of million which was ringfenced purely for the building of the new Sports Centre. Was something like £50 a year. So while the college (or possibly private contibutors) put a higher % towards such a building, the original pool of cash (excuse the pun) from the students did go towards the building of the Sports Centre.

Incidentally, there's a levy now in Trinity for students for the use of the Sports Centre - was €70 a year. There were exemptions made for students who were experiencing hardship which would cover grants, BTEA, Student Assistance Fund etc.

Stepherunie

anonymous_joe wrote: »

In all that time the people involved in SU politics have proved themselves a shower of self absorbed wánkers and prícks with no interests in anything other than themselves. (Ban me if you like, it's the truth.) The utter indifference of those people to ordinary students is beyond pathetic. They're scum. We as students are thus left to pay the bills for all of this crap. There's absolutely nothing we can do. It's unfair, and it's immoral. I hate it, but I'm helpless. And that is UCD for you. I would not recommend to a single person that they come here. Because this kind of behaviour is par for the course.

Yes all people involved in the Union are immoral and scum.


I'm a piece of scum because I choose to volunteer my time to help fellow students, because I choose to get help get students onto representative Boards where they can represent there views. Because I give students details of grants, hardship funds, fees, problems with classes, accommodation queries etc.

I'm a piece of scum because I have no interest in a career in politics but wanted the voices of my class heard for the first time in teh SU.

I'm a piece of scum because I put forward a motion with regards to fire safety on campus because I was worried about the safety of all students on campus and the possible consequences of too many fire alarms.

COme talk to me and I'll tell you how I nearly had a breakdown because of the stress I went through trying to help my class, how i used get, AND REPLY to texts at 4am about what time class was the next day because I was a class rep. Ask me about the times I've sat down with lecturers and worked through issues to try and help my class and haven't given a second thought to the fact that I could have been sitting in my room studying to get better grades.

Ask me about the time my dad had a brain haemorrhage and I had the suport of some of the great people who i've met through the Union and how they're help, advice and support meant that I didn't lose it completely at teh thought that I could lose my own father. Then ask me about how I still got up 2 days later and sorted out and issue that my class was having.


Next time you call us all scum, consider the fact that I am just one rep, just one person, and that is only part of my story. Call me a hack, call me political, but don't you dare call me scum.


Oh and for the record, I voted against the extension. Personally I think we should have just built a swimming pool if we really wanted one, with the colleges help and a new health centre possibly above it because the current space is so inadequate, it's all we need and a lot cheaper.

Raphael

I think there is a new health centre in the plans, actually. Not entirely sure, I didn't get that good of a look, but I thought it was there.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

Stepherunie wrote: »

Yes all people involved in the Union are immoral and scum.


I'm a piece of scum because I choose to volunteer my time to help fellow students, because I choose to get help get students onto representative Boards where they can represent there views. Because I give students details of grants, hardship funds, fees, problems with classes, accommodation queries etc.

I'm a piece of scum because I have no interest in a career in politics but wanted the voices of my class heard for the first time in teh SU.

I'm a piece of scum because I put forward a motion with regards to fire safety on campus because I was worried about the safety of all students on campus and the possible consequences of too many fire alarms.

COme talk to me and I'll tell you how I nearly had a breakdown because of the stress I went through trying to help my class, how i used get, AND REPLY to texts at 4am about what time class was the next day because I was a class rep. Ask me about the times I've sat down with lecturers and worked through issues to try and help my class and haven't given a second thought to the fact that I could have been sitting in my room studying to get better grades.

Ask me about the time my dad had a brain haemorrhage and I had the suport of some of the great people who i've met through the Union and how they're help, advice and support meant that I didn't lose it completely at teh thought that I could lose my own father. Then ask me about how I still got up 2 days later and sorted out and issue that my class was having.


Next time you call us all scum, consider the fact that I am just one rep, just one person, and that is only part of my story. Call me a hack, call me political, but don't you dare call me scum.


Oh and for the record, I voted against the extension. Personally I think we should have just built a swimming pool if we really wanted one, with the colleges help and a new health centre possibly above it because the current space is so inadequate, it's all we need and a lot cheaper.

You wouldn't do it if you didn't get something out of it, be it the satisfaction of seeing something done, a good ego stroking, or that warm feeling of doing something good.

Don't pretend that your motives are completely unselfish.

Raphael

Eh..If your definition of selfishness includes doing good things because you like seeing them done, or you like the warm fuzzy feeling, then what exactly is a selfless action?

Stepherunie

Raphael wrote: »

I think there is a new health centre in the plans, actually. Not entirely sure, I didn't get that good of a look, but I thought it was there.

There is a bigger one in the plans yep, then the student consultative forum will be moving to where the health centre currently is.


Sean K I never said I didn't get something out of it, I'm not stupid enough to say that, my point was you can't label people scum just because they choose to get involved. And I actually pointed out what I got out of it, a great group of friends who supported me when I was going through one of the hardest things I'd ever had to face.

Breezer

Sean_K wrote: »

You wouldn't do it if you didn't get something out of it, be it the satisfaction of seeing something done, a good ego stroking, or that warm feeling of doing something good.

Don't pretend that your motives are completely unselfish.

Holy crap, I'm getting flashbacks of an old episode of Friends now where Joey and Phoebe have a row over whether 'selfless good deeds' exist. Yes, the notion of debating that point was so ludicrous that they put it in a fecking sitcom where the main theme was people sleeping with each other! :eek:

I'm sure Steph does get something out of it. I'm sure most people who have some sense of self worth, who have a feeling of purpose in their lives, get something out of the things they do. Is that wrong? Should we not do anything unless it's painful, involves suffering and we hate every minute of it? Pardon me while I go and self-flagellate while getting dragged behind a horse and spat at by people on my way to Guantanamo Bay. :rolleyes:

peachystarr

someone has to pay - Is it not a good thing that there will be better facilities for future UCD students??

Stabshauptmann

peachystarr wrote: »

someone has to pay - Is it not a good thing that there will be better facilities for future UCD students??

The first thing that popped into my head - and the reason I voted no, was that this is being done by a group who know nothing about financial management.

The obvious thing to do was to get a huge mofo loan, build the centre and repay the loan via a levy imposed on students, starting in the year the centre is open.

i.e. only those students who have the option of using the centre will pay for it.
The second advantage of this system is that since you dont need the money in any great hurry you can have a lower levy eg 20eur instead of 50eur

But what can you do when half the SU doesnt understand commerce and the others are ideologically opposed to capitalism.

Ive seen an ents officer who didnt know what VAT was and ****ed up the bar, an SU president who admitted freely and openly that he didnt know the first thing about running shops or services and no end of officers an presidential candidates with dark age attitudes to usury.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

Breezer wrote: »

Holy crap, I'm getting flashbacks of an old episode of Friends now where Joey and Phoebe have a row over whether 'selfless good deeds' exist. Yes, the notion of debating that point was so ludicrous that they put it in a fecking sitcom where the main theme was people sleeping with each other! :eek:

I'm sure Steph does get something out of it. I'm sure most people who have some sense of self worth, who have a feeling of purpose in their lives, get something out of the things they do. Is that wrong? Should we not do anything unless it's painful, involves suffering and we hate every minute of it? Pardon me while I go and self-flagellate while getting dragged behind a horse and spat at by people on my way to Guantanamo Bay. :rolleyes:

Well I don't want to get into a philisophical/economics debate here, but a 'selfless' act as you say would be a completely irrational one.

There's nothing wrong with looking after number 1. If it helps others then all the better. Obviously someone will only do something, or continue to do it if they get more value out of it than they put in to it.

Stepherunie

You don't know anything about me, you can't say that I looked after number 1 first and foremost by being a class rep so don't start generalising.

I actually gave up a spot in my preferred hospital to help out others, as did the other class rep and both of us got abuse for doing it and indeed I spent 8 weeks in hell and nearly had to resort to making a formal complaint about a member of staff for bullying.

You have your ideas as to why class reps do it, you think we're all in it for the glory, the 'prestige', the line on the CV, the way that we'll get things done because it suits us to do it, when in fact the class reps I know do it for the greater good rather than themselves. They usually think of themselves last.

In the 3 years I was a rep I do I believe I asked for one thing that directly benefitted myself; I asked would it be okay to choose our own uniform tops without our normal wine stripe as I, along with other members of the class found the standard issue tops made work very difficult when moving patients. It wasn't something that needed paperwork, it didn't need anyone to go out of their way to help, it just needed to be approved by the head of school and she gladly agreed, indeed she herself had thought the same about the uniform.

And I apologise Raph and the Minister for going woefully off topic, I'm just sick and tired of lies that are perpetuated by so many people about why Class reps do it. We're not all the same, so stop labelling us all the same.

gubbie

It always amazes me how much people like to spout on about things they just assume. I suppose I do the same sometimes though.

anonymous_joe wrote: »

In UCD, we pay a €1000 or so 'registration' which pays for our membership of the student union.

You pay €63.50 towards the SU (or there abouts) and about the same amount to the runnings of the societies and the clubs.

In all that time the people involved in SU politics have proved themselves a shower of self absorbed wánkers and prícks with no interests in anything other than themselves.

You're an idiot. Can you even give an example or is this what you just assume. The SU might now have helped you with say a Welfare issue, but do not for one minute pretend that you never ever went to an ents gig, used the shop or even taken a free condom

Maybe if I put it in bold... The SU's involvement was the same as the societies and the clubs. Can anyone answer me this one thing: why isn't anyone pointing the finger at the societies or clubs? I was at auditors training the other day and they heralded the new student center as something that the societies fought long and hard for

ShagNastii

All this anti-SU is all pretty much true.

Students Union is latin for: I really want to spend as much time in college as I can and see myself in posters.

Wouldn't call them scum but generally all really important people in societies and in the SU f'n love the sound of their own voices and the attention they get from everyone/thing

As for SU vote I stupidly, like most student, vote for the guy or girl who seemed the nicest, or was friend of a friend because all policies are mostly the same. So can't really complain

The_Minister

gubbie wrote: »

You're an idiot.

Careful now.

Chakar

There's a link on the UCD website:

http://www.ucd.ie/campusdevelopment/transformationalprojects/studentcentre/index.html

Blush_01

Pride Fighter wrote: »

I cant afford the 150 as I am on a grant. I agree with the project but why should those less well off be forced to the edge of a cliff financially.

Do you have a college loan?

Some of us didn't get a grant, worked part-time and got loans to finance college. Not affording €150 (when you're only being asked to pay €150, and not over €1000) is a joke. Especially when you're being GIVEN money for college.

ShagNastii

Blush_01 wrote: »

Do you have a college loan?

Some of us didn't get a grant, worked part-time and got loans to finance college. Not affording €150 (when you're only being asked to pay €150, and not over €1000) is a joke. Especially when you're being GIVEN money for college.

I echo this!

Riamfada

I dont think its fair to judge this years SU in relation to the student center and to criticise them about this, that havnt got a chance to **** up yet . Nor has this anything to do with grants or otherwise !

my 2c


*cough* two fully kitted broadcast studios *cough* *cough*

Pride Fighter

Blush_01 wrote: »

Do you have a college loan?

Some of us didn't get a grant, worked part-time and got loans to finance college. Not affording €150 (when you're only being asked to pay €150, and not over €1000) is a joke. Especially when you're being GIVEN money for college.

You have no idea what my financial situation is but you can obviously guess that it is bad if I cannot get type of scratch. There were no jobs for me this summer, but in previous summers it was easier to find work so therefore I could pay. It seems that you are bitter at me for getting my education for free. Is that you Batt O'Keefe?:pac::pac::pac:

the evil lime

ShagNastii wrote: »

Wouldn't call them scum but generally all really important people in societies and in the SU f'n love the sound of their own voices and the attention they get from everyone/thing

Actually, when I was an auditor I had things arranged so half the active members had no idea who the hell I was.

Tayto2000

Heh, I paid for the old one the four years I was an undergrad and left the year it was opened :rolleyes: At least I'm getting some use out of it now, the coffee there isn't bad...

The current centre is OK but it does have problems that I'm not sure won't be repeated with the new extension... It's a big building, but it contains a huge amount of 'dead' space plus rooms in it doesn't really seem to be available to students and societies unless booked months ahead. What it does seem to get a lot of use for is as a hired venue for outside organisations...

Also, I'm afraid my inner spelling-nazi drives me to point out that it's spelt 'pedant'. Ironic, I know.