Guard over reacting or not?

i_love_toast

Hows it goin...bit of a rant...and also just looking for your opinions.my dad the other day went out the other day to a DIY shop woodies or something like that with my 5 year old brother.just lookin around when he saw a great deal on radiators and picked one up as he needs a new one for the house.brings it to the car has no choice but to put it into the back seat and my 5 year old brother in front seat in his car seat(something he never does but he had no choice)both fully bealted up to the max and all.
On the way home he gets stopped by a guard on horseback who starts going crazy.my dad didnt know what he was on about until he start calling my dad a gob****e and "your obviously too thick to have kids!!"
Gave my dad a 80euro fine and 2 penalty points.dad is raving over the comment and doesnt think the fine was justified.Looking for both arguments...hit me:pac:

newballsplease

the guard was obviously off his highhorse!!
thats a bit harsh alright.

super_furry

Pigs on horses? The world has gone mad!

Morlar

i_love_toast wrote: »

On the way home he gets stopped by a guard on horseback who starts going crazy.

What did the guard say ? Was it anything about what would happen if they had a crash and the radiator had gone flying around the inside of the car? Or was it that the kid should not have been in the front ?

ART6

i_love_toast wrote: »

Hows it goin...bit of a rant...and also just looking for your opinions.my dad the other day went out the other day to a DIY shop woodies or something like that with my 5 year old brother.just lookin around when he saw a great deal on radiators and picked one up as he needs a new one for the house.brings it to the car has no choice but to put it into the back seat and my 5 year old brother in front seat in his car seat(something he never does but he had no choice)both fully bealted up to the max and all.
On the way home he gets stopped by a guard on horseback who starts going crazy.my dad didnt know what he was on about until he start calling my dad a gob****e and "your obviously too thick to have kids!!"
Gave my dad a 80euro fine and 2 penalty points.dad is raving over the comment and doesnt think the fine was justified.Looking for both arguments...hit me:pac:

OK, he shouldn't have had a child in the front seat. We all know that since the air bags are not designed for children. That being said, if a garda called me a gob***te I would be making a visit to his superintendant pretty feckin' quick.

Guy:Incognito

Of course the gard was wrong. Does he not know that rules only apply when it's convenient and if something gets in the way its ok to do what you like?

Your dad also made the schoolboy error of not calming the situation by explaining to the gard how he pays his wages and he should also be off stopping real criminals.


Quick question for the Op: If your dad had been involved in a crash and your brother was injured by the airbag or some other "child in the front seat" related injury, would he have felt like a gob****e? The bad things dont have to happen for the causes to be stupid.

stovelid

Your da should suck it down. He should have went home and came back from the radiator.

Amazotheamazing

Stekelly wrote: »

Of course the gard was wrong. Does he not know that rules only apply when it's convenient and if something gets in the way its ok to do what you like?

Your dad also made the schoolboy error of not calming the situation by explaining to the gard how he pays his wages and he should also be off stopping real criminals.


Quick question for the Op: If your dad had been involved in a crash and your brother was injured by the airbag or some other "child in the front seat" related injury, would he have felt like a gob****e? The bad things dont have to happen for the causes to be stupid.

I don't see what you're hoping to achieve by bringing reason and logic into this. Clearly the guard was an utter bastard on a power trip....

MooseJam

what if you don't have airbags, can kids ride up front

PrivateEye

A run in with the brave revenue collectors, nothing worse.

Sorry to hear that, I'm sure your Dad could think of a few things to say back as well. Calling somebody a 'gob****e' is probably against copshop rules anyway?

Scawgeen

i_love_toast wrote: »

Hows it goin...bit of a rant...and also just looking for your opinions.my dad the other day went out the other day to a DIY shop woodies or something like that with my 5 year old brother.just lookin around when he saw a great deal on radiators and picked one up as he needs a new one for the house.brings it to the car has no choice but to put it into the back seat and my 5 year old brother in front seat in his car seat(something he never does but he had no choice)both fully bealted up to the max and all.
On the way home he gets stopped by a guard on horseback who starts going crazy.my dad didnt know what he was on about until he start calling my dad a gob****e and "your obviously too thick to have kids!!"
Gave my dad a 80euro fine and 2 penalty points.dad is raving over the comment and doesnt think the fine was justified.Looking for both arguments...hit me:pac:

Your father has learned a valuable lesson, never again will he risk putting the child in the front seat for the sake of a bargain. The garda on the high horse may have been having a bad hair day, there's an art in knowing how to act the serf when confronted with authority, start by nodding and bowing and agreeing with whatever the person in authority is calling you, no matter how outrageous. Some of them can't handle it if you start to beg them (by this stage dignity has gone out the window) if you must beg make it convincing, practice in front of the mirror. Woodies do a nice line in mirrors btw. Anyway an 80 euro fine and 2 penalty points was a bit harsh.

javaboy

Just because someone is being an arsehole while teaching you a lesson, doesn't mean he's wrong.

kowloon

It was the radiator in the back that done the damage.

seamus

I'm a little baffled. I always thought it was illegal for a child under 17 to ride in the front passenger seat, but this doesn't seem to be correct:
http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/your-licence-and-vehicle/vehicle-safety/child-restrain-systems.html

It only seems to be illegal if there are no seat belts.

In addition, children of five years of age don't use rear-facing child seats. So the airbag argument is moot. Rear-facing child seats are used for babies because they reduce the possibility of neck/spinal damage in a collision due to babies having weaker spines and muscles.

whose-law-anywa

Cannot believe your da stopped for a guard on a hoarse, just dont make eye contact and floor it.

m@cc@

The radiator just added to a heated situation.

Vain

m@cc@ wrote: »

The radiator just added to a heated situation.

haha id say it did alright

Would love to see a guard horseback pulling over a car:D Where do they put the flashing lights:P

Anyway been more serious im all for safety and there’s noting more that annoys me and makes me want to call people stupid, when you see children not belted up in cars. I see it all the time its shocking, But at least the Ops dad had the child belted up. Two points and 80euro fine was crazy. A talking to would of been more than enough.

ytareh

Interested in this post (seems radiator in the back was more of an issue to anybody sensible and penalty was far too severe)...I carry my 2 year old in her car seat in the front facing FORWARDS with the seat as far back as possible and airbag ON .I prefer this to having her in the back as it seems 'cosier' having her up front with Dad .I reckon as well as being more 'fun' its also handier for passing her a drink etc .Also surely the airbag would offer some degree of protection for her in a collision .Now dont get all santimonious with me guys but is there research to suggest that this is more dangerous than leaving her in the back?I know we were all brought up told that the kids were safer in the back but this was before airbags or even rear seatbelts!!!Am I breaking any laws?Thanks for any genuine replies.

Vain

ytareh wrote: »

Interested in this post (seems radiator in the back was more of an issue to anybody sensible and penalty was far too severe)...I carry my 2 year old in her car seat in the front facing FORWARDS with the seat as far back as possible and airbag ON .I prefer this to having her in the back as it seems 'cosier' having her up front with Dad .I reckon as well as being more 'fun' its also handier for passing her a drink etc .Also surely the airbag would offer some degree of protection for her in a collision .Now dont get all santimonious with me guys but is there research to suggest that this is more dangerous than leaving her in the back?I know we were all brought up told that the kids were safer in the back but this was before airbags or even rear seatbelts!!!Am I breaking any laws?Thanks for any genuine replies.

If I were you id move your child to the back seat asap. The manufactures don’t but a sign on every car not to have a child seat in the front for the crack of it. The power an air bag explodes at its unreal some people think its like hitting off a pillow:eek:. Wrong in fact an air bag so strong when it explodes it often breaks peoples wrists

old boy

isint the prick supposed to be underneath the horse

MooseJam

airbags have decapitated children

MagicMarker

MooseJam wrote: »

airbags have decapitated children

Cool.

i_love_toast

kowloon wrote: »

It was the radiator in the back that done the damage.

haha great line!!!

but ye i thought a talking to wouldve been enough as he could clearly see the radiator in the box taking up all the room in the back and its a small car so it could fit in the boot and he could hardly tie the 5year old to the roof :pac:
but just the penalty points is wreckin his head,he's even lookin for it on the internet for the rules of the road and the fact he always see's kids unbelted in cars and its drives him mad!
i always thought guards who decide to go on horse back instead of a car were crazies!

jeremyquinn

super_furry wrote: »

Pigs on horses? The world has gone mad!

I seen a special dog unit police van the other day, a proper little animal farm it was.

I was going to ask if I could buy tickets and have a look, the children liked the zoo the last time I brought them.

Kernel

jeremyquinn wrote: »

I seen a special dog unit police van the other day, a proper little animal farm it was.

I was going to ask if I could buy tickets and have a look, the children liked the zoo the last time I brought them.

Humour attempt.... failed.

Dragan

kowloon wrote: »

It was the radiator in the back that done the damage.

Pretty much what i was thinking.

j-bone

2 penalty points + €80 fine = not such a bargain on a radiator...

j-bone

kowloon wrote: »

It was the radiator in the back that done the damage.

oh yea..the old "kid in the boot" technique..nice

ytareh

@Vain

"If I were you id move your child to the back seat asap. The manufactures don’t but a sign on every car not to have a child seat in the front for the crack of it."

The sign is regarding REARWARDS facing seat so the child doesnt get smothered/mushed into the seat in the event of a collision...

SV

Garda over reacting?

let your da off easy to be honest.

corban

jeees everyone is soo sensitive these days... ok being called a gob****e is not nice..but to run about crying about it, is so D4..suck it up move on...

fact...
anyone who puts a child in front seat of a car is a gob****e
anyone who goes on to put a radiator in the back seat behind the child is not responsible enough to be allowed to look after one....

how bad did he need the radiator? gettin €50 off is not a good reason to risk taking the head off the child

garda was wrong/unprofessional to use the language he used, but it does accurately describe the situation

Mena

Methinks a lot of ye drive crap cars. Us siphilised folk can turn off the airbags at will :pac:

Lillyella

I think it was harsh. Big swing, he had the rad in the back seat. Sure he was hardly booting it down the Motorway with the kid jumping around the front seat.

martinr5232

Put the kid in the boot in future problem solved

Run_to_da_hills

i_love_toast wrote: »

.
On the way home he gets stopped by a guard on horseback who starts going crazy.my dad didnt know what he was on about until he start calling my dad a gob****e and "your obviously too thick to have kids!!"
Gave my dad a 80euro fine and 2 penalty points.dad is raving over the comment and doesnt think the fine was justified.Looking for both arguments...hit me:pac:

The cop was perfectly right to prosecute your dad for a dangerous load in the car but unlawful to use give abusivee slander. If your dad had a recording of this he could appeal it.

In 1996 I broke 5 ribs in a head on crash when a large bottle of C02 came through from the rear of a hatchback with the rear seats folded down. I will never forget it. In 2005 a mate of mine was killed when a several boxes of tiles came foreword when he crashed a van. A radiator would be liable to decapitate the kid in half on impact in a collision and the seat belt would have made the matter worse. count your dad lucky.

BTW he could have got that delivered for a small charge.

Lillyella wrote: »

I think it was harsh. Big swing, he had the rad in the back seat. Sure he was hardly booting it down the Motorway with the kid jumping around the front seat.

He could be only doing 30MPH taking it handy and some boy racer looses control at 60mph hitting him head on from the oposite direction, thats an impact of 90MPH.

Victor

seamus wrote: »

In addition, children of five years of age don't use rear-facing child seats.

Careful there. An airbag is designed to hit an adults chest - it will hit the top of a 5 year old's head and snap the head back, breaking the neck.

cormie

What exactly was the stated offence here? Was it the child in front or the unsafe load? As has been pointed out, a child in the front seat is fine, sure think of cars/vans with no back seats at all. You'd be best off just getting it delivered in future alright

ewj1978

ok, bit of a simple response to this....
law is this.
You MUST comply with the following...
Where safety belts have been fitted, They MUST be worn.
Children under 3 MUST NOT travel in a car or goods vehicle(other than a taxi) unless restrained in the correct child seat.
Children 3 or over who are under 150cms in height and weighing less than 36 kilograms(kids upto 11-12) MUST use the correct child seat or booster cushion when travelling in cars or goods vehicles.
Children over 3 MUST travel in a rear seat in vehicles not fitted with safety belts.
Mke sure passengers under 17 use the CORRECT seat, Booster seat, Booster Cushion or seatbelt. ALL DRIVERS ARE LEGALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS.

because the child was not in a proper booster seat thats why the OP's dad was fined. If there was an accident the child wouldnt be properly restrained by the seat belt and would more than likely impact the dashboard or be injured by the deploying airbag.

johnnyrotten

The child is probably safer in the front seat. In most cars the rear seats have no airbags.
However the radiator would do serious , possible fatal damage if throw forward in a sudden accident/braking

Hagar

ytareh wrote: »

.I prefer this to having her in the back as it seems 'cosier' having her up front with Dad .I reckon as well as being more 'fun' its also handier for passing her a drink etc ...Am I breaking any laws?Thanks for any genuine replies.

If you mean passing drinks etc while driving you are putting both of you at risk. Probably guilty of driving without due care and attention maybe even dangerous driving.

Mena wrote: »

Methinks a lot of ye drive crap cars. Us siphilised folk can turn off the airbags at will :pac:

See a doctor, soon.

ewj1978

Sorry just re-read the OP's post. The child WAS in a car safety seat in the front seat.....

Ok.. Unless the radiator wasn't secured in the car then the Guard has no case to penalise your Dad. He needs to find out the EXACT reason for the fine. If its for an improperly restrained child then your dad appeals the fine and points in a court.

Mena

johnnyrotten wrote: »

The child is probably safer in the front seat. In most cars the rear seats have no airbags.
However the radiator would do serious , possible fatal damage if throw forward in a sudden accident/braking

Small Kid + Air Bag + Accident = Rag doll with broken neck.

Hagar wrote: »

See a doctor, soon.

Wagon

Guard was a wanker. The child was secure as possible. The radiator must have been secure too. Your dad isn't going to drive an a hundred miles an hour so he can start heating his house quicker. I reckon the guard was hungover and fancied sitting on his hole for a while in the office so he took the first opportunity to do some paperwork and have an excuse not to do his job. Anyone who agrees with the guards acting like this hasn't got a ****ing clue and are probably guards themselves.

ytareh

@HAGAR


"If you mean passing drinks etc while driving you are putting both of you at risk. Probably guilty of driving without due care and attention maybe even dangerous driving."

Come on man get real!There's some amount of 'holier than thou'-ing going on in this thread.You obviously dont have children.I dont even know where to begin with that comment ...Let me guess you drive with two hands at 10 to 2 postion on wheel at all times ...makes me wonder how you even change gear (got an automatic!?)passing a drink to a passenger from centre console /dash etc is no more dangerous than operating a window switch or fan dial,changing radio station etc etc.


And I have done a fair amount of net research on this topic after being a bit spooked by a lot of what was posted .The whole kids are safer in the back thing really predates child seats/booster seats and even rear seat belts .What about van/jeep/sports car owners?Obviously they cant all be breaking the law/seriously imperilling their kids?European airbags are much smaller than north american ones .So much of the stats about the 'danger' of airbags are due to the fact that americans thought that the airbag was a replacement for seatbelts!!!(Just like a lot of accidents were caused by ABS as people panicked when feeling the kickback through the brake pedal and released the brakes...!)I concede that a lot of general guidelines advise that the kids are safer in the back UP TO AGE 15 but I think life is a compromise between safety and common sense .If you took this to its logical conclusion youd never put a child in a car (they are death traps!)...

Guy:Incognito

Mena wrote: »

Methinks a lot of ye drive crap cars. Us siphilised folk can turn off the airbags at will :pac:

Mine has a button to turn off flying rads too.:)

Lillyella wrote: »

I think it was harsh. Big swing, he had the rad in the back seat. Sure he was hardly booting it down the Motorway with the kid jumping around the front seat.

Nope, the child was safely strapped into the flight path of the rad.

Hagar

You asked a question, I gave a straight answer. Sorry it wasn't the one you wanted.

Don't make your responses so personal.

ytareh wrote:

passing a drink to a passenger from centre console /dash etc is no more dangerous than operating a window switch or fan dial,changing radio station etc etc.

I agree they are all equally dangerous. You didn't want to hear that either I suppose. But it's true nevertheless.

Preset No.3

Can I add my semi-rant? Stopped on the kerb at Macaris in Dundrum last night. Squad car comes up behind and blares the siren. Im in the chipper at the time, come outside and they want me to move. So I go down to the car, obiviously have no idea whats wrong. 'You cant park there, move it now' I go, no double yellow line. 'Its a bus lane' he says. I go, Where? There was no sign of a bus lane. Then he says its a cycle lane and again Im a bit clueless. He was just making a big deal of it cos I wasnt all yes sir, no sir, 3 bags full sir.

Finally he says, the ticket will be in the post and takes down my reg down. This is all done from the passenger window of the squad car.

Can I get a ticket just like that? Can a Garda randomly pick a car reg and decide to ticket it?

Before anyone says, I was in the wrong. Maybe I was, but im a fairly decent respectable person and the Garda was just plain rude and I really wasnt in the mood to stand there and take that abuse.

Guy:Incognito

Preset No.3 wrote: »

? Can a Garda randomly pick a car reg and decide to ticket it?

, I was in the wrong. Maybe I was .

How is it random? You admit yourself you were wrong, therefore he wasnt just ticketign a random car, he was ticketing an illegally parked car.

Being a "fairly decent respectable person" doesnt entitle you to abandon your car where you see fit because it would be inconvenient to park it properly.

pansyflower

On the way home

So - how did everyone get home?

Preset No.3

I never admitted guilt. I wasnt aware that it was illegal to park in such a place. However IN HINDSIGHT, it may have been. My issue isnt with what I may or may have done wrong, but with the manner in which I was spoken to. It doesnt cost anything to be nice!

taidghbaby

i dont understand..........why wasnt the rad tied to the roof with blue twine, and the driver using his right hand out the window-for extra stability???