It's official: Dunne turns down Munroe chance

sston

alanceltic wrote: »

Hey walshb, hate to gang up on ya but last time we had a disagreement on Dunne (and im not trolling) you predicted that dunne would not set foot inside a ring again and you went VERY quiet when you were proved wrong, he has had 2 comeback fights and looked very comfortable in both and now you are claiming that his career is pretty much over, your opinion is so far removed from reality if you think Munroe,Kiko and of all people Hyland are better boxers than dunne. I too like yourself would like to make a prediction, that dunne fights and beats munroe before then end of the year, takes a voluntary defence against hunter (if he can make weight) and then exorcises his demons by beating kiko before taking a stab at a world title......but somewhere I am thinking that even if he managed to take this route that you would not give the lad any credit.

Took the above from another thread I created when it was in the Boxing News that Dunne had turned down a shot at Munroe. Alanceltic questioned the source at the time and then posted the above but from reading a press release from Frank Maloney it appears that Dunne is indeed going to pass on the chance to fight Munroe.

http://www.frankmaloney.com/News/news/dunne-on-the-run.html

That's any chance of regaining his European title out of the picture then as it will be ages before he gets a mandatory shot. He's third in the queue at the moment. Looks like he's content to keep earning easy money fighting routine 10 rounders unless he has something else in the pipeline.

walshb

sston wrote: »

Took the above from another thread I created when it was in the Boxing News that Dunne had turned down a shot at Munroe. Alanceltic questioned the source at the time and then posted the above but from reading a press release from Frank Maloney it appears that Dunne is indeed going to pass on the chance to fight Munroe.

http://www.frankmaloney.com/News/news/dunne-on-the-run.html

That's any chance of regaining his European title out of the picture then as it will be ages before he gets a mandatory shot. He's third in the queue at the moment. Looks like he's content to keep earning easy money fighting routine 10 rounders unless he has something else in the pipeline.

I wonder if alanceltic has anything to say about this prediction he made?

alan, you there?

Big Ears

Seems the only way Dunne will be getting a European title shot soon is if Martinez gets revenge over Munroe(and doesn't look incredible doing so).

keane2097

He's not good enough at the level anyways imo.

dlofnep

keane2097 wrote: »

He's not good enough at the level anyways imo.

At Munroe's level? Are you serious?

Big Ears

keane2097 wrote: »

He's not good enough at the level anyways imo.

Want to elaborate on that ?

joepenguin

Id say there are more problems then you would think getting this fight together.
Maloney probably has it in the contract that should Dunne win he gives Munroe a rematch in the UK. This means Dunne doesnt get a decent pay day for about 9 months. considering the amount of time left in his career and that he had the european belt already that is substantial.

Sky want it, Rte want it. I would imagine that both would agree to show it. How many people tune in from Ireland to see Rendall Munroe anyway. Problem here is sky would dicatate when its on which would be Friday night at 9:30-11pm. The late late is on then and snt tubirdy on rte2? Dont know how much of an impact that would have though.

If Bernard was to win the european belt who has to face?Everyone would want him to fight Kiko again. There would be a rematch with Munroe. Both would be covering old ground. Suppose Hunter would be in the mix by then also. But they could probably make Hunter come over here with no title on the line anyway.

Basically peters still alot of options on Bernard regarding opponents.
He has the "man who vacated the title instead of fighting Bernard" Im sure there a few more former world champions flying about, some undefeated guys (basically a kiko with decision victorys for the most part) An American would be a big draw, preferably one with some kind of claim to fame like Gibbs.

Bascially Dunne can work his way up the world rankings in interesting (from a promotional point of view) fighs and hold out for a vancant title or at least bring one of the champions to Ireland. This i feel can be done in 18 months while getting top €s each fight. If the world title falls through he can always go for the european then.

I reckon Dunne is the last opponent Munroe wants to face now. Hes not a guy he has to face, he gets no more money for doing so, and it would be a close contest. He has bided his time nicely and taking Kiko as a mandatory should be no bother for him. Dunne fairs out a lot better than Kiko against Munroe I think.
EDIT: Munroe would give Dunne a shot but wouldnt go out of his way to do so. I feel he is trying to get as many defences under his belt before doing so which is fair enough. Probably be the same the other way around

keane2097

dlofnep wrote: »

At Munroe's level? Are you serious?

At European or above imo.

joepenguin

I reckon Dunne is above European but below world class overall.

keane2097

Big Ears wrote: »

Want to elaborate on that ?

....No....:pac:

walshb

joepenguin wrote: »

I reckon Dunne is above European but below world class overall.

Above European?

Yet he is NOT the champ and was thoroughly beaten by a European.:rolleyes:

He may well be on the fringes of European, but if there are men in
Europe better than you, then you are not WORLD class, unless of course
those European men are the worlds best, which we know not to be the case.

eagle eye

He got caught cold by Martinez, he does not have a chin, his stamina is not great at all, and he does not have power. He is still the best in Europe imo, which is shocking when you think about it.

kippy

eagle eye wrote: »

He got caught cold by Martinez, he does not have a chin, his stamina is not great at all, and he does not have power. He is still the best in Europe imo, which is shocking when you think about it.

Is this Bernard Dunne we are talking about here?
If so, come on, he's obviously not the best in Europe.....he's a long way off it. Pure hype and not a great fighter at all. I cant understand how he's managed to get into the position he is in at the moment.

Theres lads walking down the street in Dunnes weight category that would give him a good fight.

walshb

eagle eye wrote: »

He got caught cold by Martinez, he does not have a chin, his stamina is not great at all, and he does not have power. He is still the best in Europe imo, which is shocking when you think about it.

Shocking, talk about an understatement!

I have said many times that the level in Europe from what I have seen is atrocious.
Walstad, Hunter, Pickering, Jersuialov, Voronin! My granny would beat these lads!

And eagle, you may think he's the best, but IMO this is not true. He hasn't beaten the best and does not own the title. Should Munroe beat him, will you excuse this and still rate him the best? You are excusing his loss to Kiko. Will you also excuse a loss to Munroe should it happen?

dlofnep

keane2097 wrote: »

At European or above imo.

He's very capable at European level.

eagle eye

walshb wrote: »

Shocking, talk about an understatement!

I have said many times that the level in Europe from what I have seen is atrocious.
Walstad, Hunter, Pickering, Jersuialov, Voronin! My granny would beat these lads!

And eagle, you may think he's the best, but IMO this is not true. He hasn't beaten the best and does not own the title. Should Munroe beat him, will you excuse this and still rate him the best? You are excusing his loss to Kiko. Will you also excuse a loss to Munroe should it happen?

Absolutely not, if he loses again to any of the above then he is not the best in Europe.

Lol@shocking understatement:D I'm not disagreeing with you at all.

walshb

eagle eye wrote: »

Absolutely not, if he loses again to any of the above then he is not the best in Europe.

Lol@shocking understatement:D I'm not disagreeing with you at all.

We'll have to wait and see eagle.

BTW, I do hope Bernard turns it around and does beat Munroe!

Big Ears

kippy wrote: »

Theres lads walking down the street in Dunnes weight category that would give him a good fight.

How are the streets of Mexico City anyway


Since Dunne is so poor do you want to name any European fighters in his weight class that would beat him, other than Martinez and Munroe ?

alanceltic

looks like I was wide of the mark, i guess i was blinded by the fights I personally wanted to see which was Munroe, Hunter then Kiko as I believe he hasa the tools to beat all 3, I firmly hold the view that he has the better of all 3 of these guys and please dont harp on about kiko beating him last time out as munroe showed martinez out to be very average and limited, I also believe that munroe is made for dunne and the only reason why I can think this fight isnt being made is because of contractual difficulties in some shape or form.

Looking at the quotes from Maloneys website ;
"In fact, I think the only people who aren't affected by the credit crunch are Dunne and his team, judging by what they can afford to turn down."
Its well known that Dunne is well paid and its extremely unlikely that maloney can offer anything near what he could earn here, although money doesnt appear to be the problem here

"But we want to get back to Nottingham as soon as possible. The turn out last week was unbelievable considering that everybody is feeling the pinch."
I dont call 900 people in a bingo hall unbelieveable and you would bet your bottom dollar that Munroe is only getting about 20k-40k per fight, compare this with what Pickering earned for the vacant title with Dunne which was 100k ++ and we all know where the cash is but i can understand Munroes camp declining to fight here when he is the title holder and when they are also contracted to sky.

No doubt maloneys camp will put spin on this that dunne was offered mega bucks and is running scared in order to build his profile when the facts are in the first line of the press release.. its a pity as Im certain Dunne would have beaten him, although this news shouldnt really come as any great surprise as Peters said as much after Dunnes last fight so I think its fair to expect another fight from Dunne before stepping up for a world title / intercontinental title early next year

walshb

alanceltic wrote: »

these guys and please dont harp on about kiko beating him last time out as munroe showed martinez out to be very average and limited,

ll know where the cash is but i can understand Munroes camp declining to fight here when he is the title holder and when they are also contracted to sky.

That's the key point alan, Munroe made Kiko look ordinary. But Bernard couldn't beat him....

This says a whole lot more about Dunne than Kiko!

walshb

Big Ears wrote: »

How are the streets of Mexico City anyway


Since Dunne is so poor do you want to name any European fighters in his weight class that would beat him, other than Martinez and Munroe ?

Big ears, he is possibly the third best European amongst a bunch of Europeans that most would say are pretty pretty average!

Your question does NOT in any way promote Dunne!

Dempsey

Sky want it, Rte want it. I would imagine that both would agree to show it. How many people tune in from Ireland to see Rendall Munroe anyway. Problem here is sky would dicatate when its on which would be Friday night at 9:30-11pm. The late late is on then and snt tubirdy on rte2? Dont know how much of an impact that would have though.

I believe that was the reason explained after Dunne's last fight. The issues are contractual more so that Dunne dodging the fighter.

richie rich08

walshb wrote: »

That's the key point alan, Munroe made Kiko look ordinary. But Bernard couldn't beat him....

This says a whole lot more about Dunne than Kiko!

You cant judge a boxer or a result going by what and who the other fighter has beatin.....

Boxer is extremely technical styles do clash, i mean i think if dunne was to have a rematch with kiko and fought a "bernard dunne style fight" as in just out box him and not go for a KO he would easily win.

I mean kiko looked very bad against munroe and i wouldnt put that down to munroe being a great boxer id put that down to martinez....
He looked very very tired in the later rounds and i reckon if dunne got through the first 6 wit martinez he would do it on points!!

Apart from the matter i dont understand why dunne wont fight munroe?
I think it would be a very good fight, dunne is at the stage of his career where he should be thinkin "im 28 years old ive had 27 bouts and havent been against one decent oppenent.... am i wasting my time?"

He need s to start fighting bigger names now because he aint getting any younger

kippy

Big Ears wrote: »

How are the streets of Mexico City anyway


Since Dunne is so poor do you want to name any European fighters in his weight class that would beat him, other than Martinez and Munroe ?

Honestly,
Come on, how many fighters in Europe in his weight class has he fought?
He WOULD potentially lose to all of them, I dont fecking know. All I know his he has lost to two of them and isnt actually that good of a fighter. All hype.

walshb

richie rich08 wrote: »

You cant judge a boxer or a result going by what and who the other fighter has beatin.....

Boxer is extremely technical styles do clash, i mean i think if dunne was to have a rematch with kiko and fought a "bernard dunne style fight" as in just out box him and not go for a KO he would easily win.

I mean kiko looked very bad against munroe and i wouldnt put that down to munroe being a great boxer id put that down to martinez....
He looked very very tired in the later rounds and i reckon if dunne got through the first 6 wit martinez he would do it on points!!

Apart from the matter i dont understand why dunne wont fight munroe?
I think it would be a very good fight, dunne is at the stage of his career where he should be thinkin "im 28 years old ive had 27 bouts and havent been against one decent oppenent.... am i wasting my time?"

He need s to start fighting bigger names now because he aint getting any younger

I am full aware that styles make fights etc; but when you lose like Dunne did, that's not an issue. The issue is that Bernard has NO chin, so unless he can avoid taking a heavy punch for 12 rds, which is highly unlikely; then he is not going to win!

You say a 'Bernard Dunne style fight', isn't that the whole problem
concerning Dunne, he only can win when the man is fighting at his pace and to
his liking. He cannot up the tempo and match the foe bow for blow, unless of course the foe is a BUM!

richie rich08

walshb wrote: »

I am full aware that styles make fights etc; but when you lose like Dunne did, that's not an issue. The issue is that Bernard has NO chin, so unless he can avoid taking a heavy punch for 12 rds, which is highly unlikely; then he is not going to win!

You say a 'Bernard Dunne style fight', isn't that the whole problem
concerning Dunne, he only can win when the man is fighting at his pace and to
his liking. He cannot up the tempo and match the foe bow for blow, unless of course the foe is a BUM!

I dont believe all the ****e about dunne being caught cold against martinez at all.
To a certain extent i do agree with you that he doesnt have much of a chin,
i think the main reason dunne was beating so badly by martinez was dunne went out tryin to be agreesive and knock kiko out.
He was tryin to show off and got caught very badly,
i think that fight said more about bernard dunne as a person then it did his boxing skills.
I do agree with you when you say he has fought BUMS,
and dont get me wrong i am not tryin to defend him or hype him up!
Id be the first to say B dunne is extremely offered rated.
But i do believe he has what it takes to beat martinez,
if he took control and brought the fight to his pace i think dunne would out box him, and thats only going by what i seen the martinez munroe fight

alanceltic

walshb wrote: »

That's the key point alan, Munroe made Kiko look ordinary. But Bernard couldn't beat him....

This says a whole lot more about Dunne than Kiko!

Why oh why do you absolutely insist on judgeing dunne on that one fight???? ok he got beat and we all seen it, my own opinion on it was that his pride got the better of him, his strenghts are his boxing skills, he is not a brawler and never will be and wont win fights that way, most of his KO's are relentless pressure as opposed to single ko punches, old ground and wev been there before so I thinks its harsh to judge him on that single fight,,,, if dunne fought kiko tomorrow i would be certain that he would fight to his strenghts and beat kiko easier than munroe did, I also dont rate munroe at all, thats why i was keen to see him matched up against both of these boxers. I believe the route which he will now have to take (another south american and then a world title/elimator) will actually be a lot harder than the european title route.

PS ... kippy get with it, if your gonna talk bull_**** the least u could do is post accurate bull_****

Big Ears

kippy wrote: »

Honestly,
Come on, how many fighters in Europe in his weight class has he fought?
He WOULD potentially lose to all of them, I dont fecking know. All I know his he has lost to two of them and isnt actually that good of a fighter. All hype.

7, he has beaten 6 of those and lost to 1.

He also beat one at Featherweight, against a fighter who lost a very close decision in Italy(always suspicious) for the European title.

So that's 8 in or above his weight with 7 wins.

I thought you were joking earlier but it seems you were serious when you thought an average person of his weight off the street could give him a good fight. Nevermind that, that person isn't a professional fighter, they're not even an amateur fighter, and you think they could compete with Dunne ?


Dunne has lost twice to European fighters ?, who else other than Martinez has beat him ?

He would potentially lose to all of 63 of the other European Super-Bantamweights out there ?, including the guys he's already beaten ?

3 of the guys Dunne has beaten are still in Europe's top 10, Sean Hughes is 10th, Reidar Walstad is 5th and Esham Pickering is 4th.

and the Featherweight he beat is ranked 7th in Europe at Featherweight.


I'm sure someone will come and point out that European level is nowhere compared to World standards, which is true. But the suggest that anyone could just beat Dunne verges on ridiculous. He has a poor chin and poor punching power, his other qualities are World Class and if not for his chin there's a good chance he'd have a World title belt around his waist now. But I suppose you could say that for quite a few fighters.

Anyway the point is don't take what you hear of the street for granted, actually look into things. Dunne is between the best and the 3rd best Super-Bantamweight in Europe(at worst).

joepenguin

walshb wrote: »

Above European?

Yet he is NOT the champ and was thoroughly beaten by a European.:rolleyes:

True he is not the champ and he was beaten by Kiko. This was a time when he was riding the bernard hype wave at its peak and didnt do his homework on Kiko and also started out wrong. Too cocky, too wrapped up in his own world and looking past the fight.

On one hand I feel that if they fought again Dunne would know better. On the other I feel Kiko would have such a psychological advantage.

IMO opinion he is not too much above european level, but just enough to entice him on to the world scene. It really is full of talent and dangerous fighters at the minute.

stagolee

Heres Brian Peters reaction to the allegations of Dunne dodging a fight with Munroe:
http://www.eastsideboxing.com/news.php?p=17185&more=1

walshb

alanceltic wrote: »

Why oh why do you absolutely insist on judgeing dunne on that one fight???? ok he got beat and we all seen it, my own opinion on it was that his pride got the better of him, his strenghts are his boxing skills, he is not a brawler and never will be and wont win fights that way, most of his KO's are relentless pressure as opposed to single ko punches, old ground and wev been there before so I thinks its harsh to judge him on that single fight,,,, if dunne fought kiko tomorrow i would be certain that he would fight to his strenghts and beat kiko easier than munroe did, I also dont rate munroe at all, thats why i was keen to see him matched up against both of these boxers. I believe the route which he will now have to take (another south american and then a world title/elimator) will actually be a lot harder than the european title route.

PS ... kippy get with it, if your gonna talk bull_**** the least u could do is post accurate bull_****

Are you serious?

I have qustioned Dunne's talent well before Kiko destroyed him
I have questioned all the bums he struggled with. I have questioned his chin, stamina etc etc. You need to go back and read some of my early posts on Dunne

alanceltic

Yep I sure am serious, I know where u stand on your opinions of dunne so dont need to trawl, I guess that we will have to agree to differ and wait to see how the cards fall, there seems no doubt that he will get a world title / eliminator shot at some stage early next year but even if he was to have success here I doubt you would give the lad any credit, after all winning the european title in your book doesnt qualify as success.

Out of interest do you not think that Dunne could beat Munroe/Hunter & Kiko if they fought tomorrow?

kippy

He's all hype....thats my opinion after seeing him fight a few times.
I am surprised at those who say he is above european level (when he is plainly not).

Big Ears

kippy wrote: »

He's all hype....thats my opinion after seeing him fight a few times.
I am surprised at those who say he is above european level (when he is plainly not).

How can you say he's all hype when you don't even know who the other guys in the division are ?

I wouldn't mind it from someone who actually knows the division but to make that claim and to have nothing to back it up is silly.

kippy

Big Ears wrote: »

How can you say he's all hype when you don't even know who the other guys in the division are ?

I wouldn't mind it from someone who actually knows the division but to make that claim and to have nothing to back it up is silly.

He has played 7, lost to one as someone stated above. I've seen three of those fights and was not impressed with the 2 wins he had. As for the defeat, he was hammered out of the ring. All hype. The last guy he fought was a pure money making attempt from him.
You dont need to know every fighter in his weight to say that he's not actually that good.
The comment above about him being better than european level but not as good as world level was, in my opinion, comical.

Big Ears

kippy wrote: »

He has played 7, lost to one as someone stated above. I've seen three of those fights and was not impressed with the 2 wins he had. As for the defeat, he was hammered out of the ring. All hype. The last guy he fought was a pure money making attempt from him.
You dont need to know every fighter in his weight to say that he's not actually that good.
The comment above about him being better than european level but not as good as world level was, in my opinion, comical.

played ???, come on man this isn't tennis. He's fought 7 European guys at Super-Bantamweight.

The last guy he fought was an excercise in staying sharp, gaining back, confidence, improving defence and not getting stupidly involved. Marchiano gave highly touted Bantamweight prospect Abner Mares a tough fight not long before Dunne. Dunne beat Marchiano a lot more comfortably than Mares did and Mares fights for a version of the World title(WBO) against Gerry Penalosa before the end of the year.


You don't need to know every fighter at his weight to know how good his is correct. But you do need to know the major players at World level and you do need to know a good few of the guys at European level.

It seems you make your assumptions from watching Dunne alone, how good/bad can you tell a fighter is overall from just watching him and the guys he fights ?


Kippy I'm glad you seem to have an interest in boxing and in Dunne's career but you learn more by watching than by talking.

European #4 Pickering against European #3 Matthew Marsh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-i2MvkG4MM

That's European #4 Esham Pickering against European #10 Sean Hughes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdFkfwYgO0Y

This is Israel Vasquez v Rafael Marquez, imo the two best Super-Bantamweights in the World

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6Di2j1z9xw

They are only highlights but they give you an idea of the quality at different levels. I don't mean to be patronising but I just want to give you something where you can draw your own logical conclusions.

Obviously he is way behind the likes of Marquez and Vasquez

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAY3DsfXsLs

That's Al Seeger v Mike Oliver, Seeger was stopped in 8th in a World title fight(WBO) and Oliver was IBF #1 contender until getting sparked by a former Super-Flyweight in Reynaldo Lopez. They are what you would call fringe World level and imo they are the level Bernard Dunne is one. I'd fancy Dunne to beat them two infact. But all three have very poor chins and all 3 lack power(don't be fooled by Seeger's ko record)..


and Finally here is European champion(at the time) Michael Hunter against now World champion(he won it in this fight) Steve Molitor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlnvqQ32Psg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdTFz4hwyPE

I think Dunne's a better fighter than Hunter(both then and now) and it is odd that despite obviously being a technically inferior fighter here it's Hunter's chin that lets him down. Hunter was floored twice on route to winning a 50/50 mixed decision over Esham Pickering. Not too long later Bernard Dunne thoroughly outboxed pickering on his way to winning the European title and was never bothered by Pickering's power.

If Dunne is to fight for a World title it must be against Molitor because all of the other World Champions hit too hard. I'd fancy Molitor to beat Dunne but if he stands up to the power of Molitor okay he's in with a chance.

kippy

Sorry, Played was a mistype-I obviously meant fought.

Fair enough regarding the fighters in his weight but I dont think he is actually that good a fighter, having seen him fight a few times.
Thanks for the videos by the way, will have a look.

Big Ears

kippy wrote: »

Thanks for the videos by the way, will have a look.

Your welcome, and feel free to stick around the forum and get involved a bit. You'll find there's quite a lot of knowledgeable posters around here and you'll always be kept up to date when fights are taking place.

For instance the prizefighter series is on tomorrow on Sky from 22:00. The skill isn't great but the excitement is.

walshb

alanceltic wrote: »

Yep I sure am serious, I know where u stand on your opinions of dunne so dont need to trawl, I guess that we will have to agree to differ and wait to see how the cards fall, there seems no doubt that he will get a world title / eliminator shot at some stage early next year but even if he was to have success here I doubt you would give the lad any credit, after all winning the european title in your book doesnt qualify as success.

Out of interest do you not think that Dunne could beat Munroe/Hunter & Kiko if they fought tomorrow?

I'll give him credit when he has earned it, and hopping in the ring to 'spar' tomato cans is not my idea of class and is undeserving of credit.

Do I think Dunne could beat Munroe/Hunter& Kiko?

Well, he was whupped by Kiko, so NO, not ever I feel; unless he suddenly overnight gets a decent chin?

Munroe? TBH, I have seen little of him; but if he is a decent fighter, Dunne will NOT
beat him.

Hunter, who knows, but I'd bet against Bernard beating Hunter.

Regardless, there is a good possibility that none of these bouts will take place as long
as Peter's and co can continue filling the stadium with the crap they are feeding the masses!

sston

walshb wrote: »

I'll give him credit when he has earned it, and hopping in the ring to 'spar' tomato cans is not my idea of class and is undeserving of credit.

Do I think Dunne could beat Munroe/Hunter& Kiko?

Well, he was whupped by Kiko, so NO, not ever I feel; unless he suddenly overnight gets a decent chin?

Munroe? TBH, I have seen little of him; but if he is a decent fighter, Dunne will NOT
beat him.

Hunter, who knows, but I'd bet against Bernard beating Hunter.

Regardless, there is a good possibility that none of these bouts will take place as long
as Peter's and co can continue filling the stadium with the crap they are feeding the masses!

bwalsh I was as critical as anyone of Dune not taking the Munroe fight but for me it seems that no matter what he does it would not be to your liking. You seem to judge Dunne on a completely different level than you do other fighters.

For example you have said Dunne has met pretty much exclusively tomato cans yet it's been proven time and time again on here that many of these guys are European class at least.

Take Yuri Voronin for example, ok he rattled him badly in the 10th and final round but Dunne coasted through the other 9 rounds and after that Voronin went on to give Nicky Cook a far tougher fight overall for the European featherweight title. Cook won the WBO world title at super feather last weekend.

After Voronin Dunne demolished Sean Hughes who has since gone on to give a very good account of himself at British level. Nobody has beaten him as convincingly as Dunne and he is in line for a shot at Munroe. Dunne also breezed past an admittedly past it, Noel Wilders, but Wilders had also been European champ.

I think only a complete begrudger could say that his performance against Pickering to win the European title wasn't a very impressive display. Dunne was simply brilliant that night against a guy who had up until his somewhat controversial defeat by Hunter a dominant European Champion. Pickering also came into the Dunne fight a couple of months after having to withdraw from an IBF featherweight title fight in the U.S. through so I find it very hard to see how you could define that kind of opponent as a tomato can.

The standard of opponent in his European title defences wasn’t great but Kiko Martinez aside they were as good as what was available at the time and Walstad had a decent record and a decent amateur pedigree which included a win over Dunne.

After Martinez his first fight back was against Machado, a soft enough assignment but still a former world champ. It will be interesting to see what kind of opposition Khan will face after his first round KO loss. I would imagine it’s unlikely to be a former world champ and I’m pretty sure whoever it is you won’t be as harsh on Khan as you are on Dunne.

Marchiano was no world beater either but as big ears has said he gave Abner Mares a far harder night than he did Dunne and Mares has a world title fight coming up.

I’m not a Dunne fanatic by any means but he kickstarted the Irish professional scene here and the likes of Duddy, Lee, Macklin and McCloskey have picked up the baton and benefited from that. Quality wise we may not be near the days of McGuigan, Collins and McCullough but even when they were active the Irish scene was actually still pretty dormant, now it’s alive and kicking with regular shows and terrestrial tv coverage.

Ok, it’s annoying that a lot of the general public have bought completely into the hype but I’d sooner the general public were talking about Irish boxing rather than not talking about it even if most of them are talking ****.

Anyway my overall point is that although I’m not a massive Dunne fan and his flaws are obvious, chinny and suspect stamina I’m not blinded to his strengths either, great boxing brain and world class boxing skills. I just think you judge him very unfairly bwalsh particularly in relation to his opposition because if you were to judge all fighters that way then 99% of the pros out there would be “tomato cans”.

ODD-JOB

Yeah,........good posts here btw.

Dunne was doing weights 4 or 5 days a week before the Kiko fight, so I heard at the time.
I wonder if Dunne could pack on a bit of muscle in future ?
A lot ectomorphs simply cant put anything on - no matter what !

Bernard's full of skill , but he gets very wrapped up in the emotion of the crowd.
He tries to look good too much , instead of grinding out victories. Cockiness and showboating turn me off...
you'd get a better fanbase showing humbleness.

Boxing has got so comercial these days , its only about money with all the fighters.
You'd like to think Dunne would accept the challange himself , regardless of what money it brings.
Its a golden chance to prove himself , to both the fans and his own stock of pride .

Years ago, fighters had the sole goal of aiming to reach the top level of competition, leave a legacy , and the financial side was more "by-the-way".

And also to whoever said Molitor was the lightest punching champion in at that weight ,..... I dunno to be honest. dude is a solid power punching champ.

walshb

sston wrote: »

bwalsh I was as critical as anyone of Dune not taking the Munroe fight but for me it seems that no matter what he does it would not be to your liking. You seem to judge Dunne on a completely different level than you do other fighters.

For example you have said Dunne has met pretty much exclusively tomato cans yet it's been proven time and time again on here that many of these guys are European class at least.

Take Yuri Voronin for example, ok he rattled him badly in the 10th and final round but Dunne coasted through the other 9 rounds and after that Voronin went on to give Nicky Cook a far tougher fight overall for the European featherweight title. Cook won the WBO world title at super feather last weekend.

After Voronin Dunne demolished Sean Hughes who has since gone on to give a very good account of himself at British level. Nobody has beaten him as convincingly as Dunne and he is in line for a shot at Munroe. Dunne also breezed past an admittedly past it, Noel Wilders, but Wilders had also been European champ.

I think only a complete begrudger could say that his performance against Pickering to win the European title wasn't a very impressive display. Dunne was simply brilliant that night against a guy who had up until his somewhat controversial defeat by Hunter a dominant European Champion. Pickering also came into the Dunne fight a couple of months after having to withdraw from an IBF featherweight title fight in the U.S. through so I find it very hard to see how you could define that kind of opponent as a tomato can.

The standard of opponent in his European title defences wasn’t great but Kiko Martinez aside they were as good as what was available at the time and Walstad had a decent record and a decent amateur pedigree which included a win over Dunne.

After Martinez his first fight back was against Machado, a soft enough assignment but still a former world champ. It will be interesting to see what kind of opposition Khan will face after his first round KO loss. I would imagine it’s unlikely to be a former world champ and I’m pretty sure whoever it is you won’t be as harsh on Khan as you are on Dunne.

Marchiano was no world beater either but as big ears has said he gave Abner Mares a far harder night than he did Dunne and Mares has a world title fight coming up.

I’m not a Dunne fanatic by any means but he kickstarted the Irish professional scene here and the likes of Duddy, Lee, Macklin and McCloskey have picked up the baton and benefited from that. Quality wise we may not be near the days of McGuigan, Collins and McCullough but even when they were active the Irish scene was actually still pretty dormant, now it’s alive and kicking with regular shows and terrestrial tv coverage.

Ok, it’s annoying that a lot of the general public have bought completely into the hype but I’d sooner the general public were talking about Irish boxing rather than not talking about it even if most of them are talking ****.

Anyway my overall point is that although I’m not a massive Dunne fan and his flaws are obvious, chinny and suspect stamina I’m not blinded to his strengths either, great boxing brain and world class boxing skills. I just think you judge him very unfairly bwalsh particularly in relation to his opposition because if you were to judge all fighters that way then 99% of the pros out there would be “tomato cans”.

But isn't this the whole point. The European level at 122 lbs is really really average and I don't know anybody who disagrees with this view. Now, Bernard has only competed at this level and in doing so, he has beaten the best in Europe; big deal. I don't rate them at all. Kiko was one he didn't beat. The performance V Pickering was made look all the better because Esham was in to simply survive. You can see that as plain as the nose on your face.

I made many predictions on Dunne and the only incorrect one was when I said he would NOT return. I said he would win nothing of merit on his return and beat nobody close to world class. Have I been wrong to date?

cowzerp

Bren the bit that bugs me is how you keep going back to the kiko fight!
anyone can get ko'd and kiko is a monster at the weight. 1 fight can be a fluke, when it happens again then the case is closed, as it stands very little has changed for me apart from knowing he can be hurt.

Bruno had a glass jaw and won the world title and he was nowhere near as skillfull as dunne. not saying dunne will but you just dont like him and use the kiko fight as proof that your right, basically a potential fluke to prove yourself right.

also going by your reasoning khan should be spoke of the same as he got knocked out easier and by a lb for lb weaker fighter, also khan has been rocked at amateur and pro level by non punchers and was clearly dazed by a jab from prescott the other night. and he's only fought cans too. not even euro level yet.

Big Ears

ODD-JOB wrote: »

And also to whoever said Molitor was the lightest punching champion in at that weight ,..... I dunno to be honest. dude is a solid power punching champ.

You want to tell me Israel Vasquez, Celestino Caballero or Juan Manuel Lopez don't hit harder than Molitor ?, As those 3 men would tell you themselves you'd be loco to think that.

Vasquez is the biggest puncher at the weight(and the true champion), Caballero managed to to dent the iron chinned Sithchatchawal putting him away in 3 rounds. Lopez managed to stop the iron chinned Ponce De Leon in a round, and all 3 have shown they are massive massive punchers.

I wouldn't write Molitor off as featherfisted, but he's an average enough puncher.

Here's Caballero putting Somsak Sithchatchawal away

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvKs-IioaEU

and here's Lopez getting rid of Ponce

When you consider the other guys that aren't champions in the weight but have huge power, Ponce De Leon, Rafael Marquez, Johnny Gonzalez, Sithchatchawal and other guys that possess a better dig than Molitor at the weight in Rey Bautista, Ricardo Cordoba, Reynaldo Lopez, Bernabe Conception, Namchai Saru, Poonsawat Kratingdaenggym, then for the weight class Molitor is actually a very light hitter as Super-Bantamweight is just full of punchers.

sston

walshb wrote: »

But isn't this the whole point. The European level at 122 lbs is really really average and I don't know anybody who disagrees with this view. Now, Bernard has only competed at this level and in doing so, he has beaten the best in Europe; big deal. I don't rate them at all. Kiko was one he didn't beat. The performance V Pickering was made look all the better because Esham was in to simply survive. You can see that as plain as the nose on your face.

I made many predictions on Dunne and the only incorrect one was when I said he would NOT return. I said he would win nothing of merit on his return and beat nobody close to world class. Have I been wrong to date?

Yes, you have been wrong in referring to Dunne's opposition as tomato cans. I pointed out that only months before Dunne comprehensively beat Pickering he was all set for an IBF world featherweight title fight in the U.S. and it was a fight that many people thought Pickering good enough to win. He had to wihthdraw injured and then was well beaten by Dunne in his next fight so at the time Dunne beat him Pickering would have been considered a world class opponent.

You say he was in there to survive, isn't that what people do when they can't cope with what's in front of them? What was plain as the nose on my face is that Dunne was simply far too good for Pickering that night and that was considered by most people a 50/50 match ahead of the fight. In fact for me that night Dunne showed flashes of true world class ability, an excellent jab that allowed him to control the pace and dominate the first half of the fight completely. The second half of the fight although still pretty dominant by Dunne showed the main weakness he has (aside from his chin), his stamina. His concentration seemed to wane and he began to showboat a little more which meant his work was far less effective and I think all of this can be put down to a lack of stamina which I think causes him to lose focus and get drawn into a fight. Overall though it was still an excellent performance.

Even his most recent opponent (Marchiano) was beaten far more comfortably by Dunne than Abner Mares, a prospect of Oscar De La Hoya who is challenging for a world title in his next fight.

By the way what would you class as something of merit for Dunne? It's pretty clear that you don't consider the European title to be worth anything despite the fact that Bernard is only one of a handful of Irish pros to have ever won one. If that is the case then it's clear that you would only class a world title as something of merit. Pretty high standards you're setting there or do those standards only apply when it comes to Dunne?

alanceltic

bejesus bwalsh someone else calling u a begrudger over your OTT lobsided opinions of dunne, when I asked you if you taught he would beat Kiko/Munroe/Hunter I knew you would say no to all 3, sure Hyland beats Dunne in your opinion :eek::eek: And i think cowzerp is correct in stating that you keep going back to the kiko fight to back up every point you make about how poor Dunne is. Just be honest and say you dont like him, at least that way you would get more respect from me instead of the tripe you lash out all the time on Dunne.

T-K-O

alanceltic wrote: »

bejesus bwalsh someone else calling u a begrudger over your OTT lobsided opinions of dunne, when I asked you if you taught he would beat Kiko/Munroe/Hunter I knew you would say no to all 3, sure Hyland beats Dunne in your opinion :eek::eek: And i think cowzerp is correct in stating that you keep going back to the kiko fight to back up every point you make about how poor Dunne is. Just be honest and say you dont like him, at least that way you would get more respect from me instead of the tripe you lash out all the time on Dunne.

Some guys will **** all over Dunnes career no matter what he does.

From what I have read about this fight. Munroe turned down the biggest pay day of his life to not fight Dunne in Dublin. It makes sense for any European super ban to fight Ben in Dublin. Instead Munroe wants to fight in a school gym. Kiko would fight in Dublin at an hours notice.
1. He knows it makes sense.
2. He believes he can repeat the first performance.

You could play devils advocate and say Munroe is actually running from Dunne..

Dunne is doing what every American boxer does, and that is insisting on the opponent to fight in their country.

walshb

cowzerp wrote: »

Bren the bit that bugs me is how you keep going back to the kiko fight!
anyone can get ko'd and kiko is a monster at the weight. 1 fight can be a fluke, when it happens again then the case is closed, as it stands very little has changed for me apart from knowing he can be hurt.

Bruno had a glass jaw and won the world title and he was nowhere near as skillfull as dunne. not saying dunne will but you just dont like him and use the kiko fight as proof that your right, basically a potential fluke to prove yourself right.

also going by your reasoning khan should be spoke of the same as he got knocked out easier and by a lb for lb weaker fighter, also khan has been rocked at amateur and pro level by non punchers and was clearly dazed by a jab from prescott the other night. and he's only fought cans too. not even euro level yet.

I haven't been going back to Kiko. As all know, I never rated Dunne before the Kiko bout, so there it is. KIko is only one dent on his career. I have always criticised his tomato can opponents and Peter's and co selling it like it's the real deal. That has zero to do with Kiko.

So let's end it here and just wait and see. To date, I haven't said anything untrue about Dunne. Some may rate his wins as wins against quality. I don't; and I think that the level in Europe is very average. I don't think for a second that he will win a world title. Let's wait and see.

Alan, you have to separate Dunne the man and Dunne the fighter. Dunne the man, I know nothing about and therefore I will not criticise this part. Dunne the fighter is simply not up to the task, in many ways! Alan, you accuse me of always going back to Kiko, so why the hell ask me if Dunne can beat Kiko?
What's that all about. If me bringing up Kiko is a problem for you, then don't ask me if I think Dunne can beat him.

Paul, I wouldn't say Bruno had a glass chin at all. It was more his stamina that let him down. He took some major shots from big hitting heavies and didn't go down. His
stamina and recuperative abilities were limited.

And yes Alan, I think Hyland would beat Dunne. Would you prefer I lied and said I think Dunne would beat Hyland

alanceltic

Im not goading you (honest) and I appreciate that we have differing opinions on how good (or not in your case) Dunne actually is but I personally think you lose credibility in any argument you put forward when you rate Hyland as a better boxer than Dunne, I understand people have different opinions but when you claim this I just feel that your reasoning has gone out the wondow...I would guess you are in an extremely small group of 1 if you think Hyland could beat Dunne, if they were matched tomorrow Peters would be slated for such a mismatch and rightly so.

walshb

alanceltic wrote: »

Im not goading you (honest) and I appreciate that we have differing opinions on how good (or not in your case) Dunne actually is but I personally think you lose credibility in any argument you put forward when you rate Hyland as a better boxer than Dunne, I understand people have different opinions but when you claim this I just feel that your reasoning has gone out the wondow...I would guess you are in an extremely small group of 1 if you think Hyland could beat Dunne, if they were matched tomorrow Peters would be slated for such a mismatch and rightly so.

Hey, we will never know who wins unless they meet, and I never said Hyland was a better 'boxer'; just that I think Hyland beats Bernard. Maybe I am in the minority; does that make me wrong? Anyone who thought Ali couldn't beat Foreman were in the minority; did they lose credibility?

Alan, the bottom line is that we do indeed rate Bernard differently. I rate him low, and you not low. But don't harp on about Kiko and intimate that I judge him solely on this bout. You know well I never rated Bernard at any stage of his career.

How do you think a fight between the two goes. Hyland is a big lad for the weight, is quite fast and an all
round good boxer.

His chin I don't now much about, but does he need a decent chin
to survive Bernard's power. I think not.

Hyland is a lovely body puncher and can mix it
up. Bernard to win will have to earn it. It won't be like Machado or Marchiano at all.
I'd like to hear how you envision the fight going?

cowzerp

Bren without been funny, Hyland is the poor mans dunne, thats the best way to some him up..i take your point about how you rate bernard, just dont like how you use the kiko incident as proof that your right.

and for any who do not know walshb, he knows his stuff and is honest in his views, and has felt this way about dunne for a long time.
we agree on most stuff, just see dunne from different perspectives i suppose.