the blue book

yahoo_moe

blackbelt wrote: »

what they could have used was a scorecard system where they analyse what they need to improve on and what their strength is.its a basic business strategy tool that could be applied in this context and would have saved the team and management all this embarassment instead of having a code of conduct/bible.

There are a whole host of methods they could have used I'm sure - all I'm trying to say is that the principles of the idea were sound but the execution of it was not. So while I agree that it seems to have been taken a bit far, I just don't agree with all the people who've come on just to say "embarrassing psycho-babble" and the likes.

strategy over ethics.

Not sure I understand you here - it seems to have been about on-pitch strategies as well as off-pitch behaviour (which is still worth having an official policy on a lot of the time). "Ethics" makes it sound like it was some kind of "Love thy neighbour" moral code or something.

2Scoops

yahoo_moe wrote: »

it's a cowardly player who goes along with this all year until AFTER they haven't won the AI and then goes to the press.

It would have damaged the team to reveal this while they were still in contention. Leaving it until now makes sure it won't affect the team but will make sure this kind of rubbish won't be repeated in future. If he made a few bob as well, then fair play to him. He's no coward.

jackbhoy

yahoo_moe wrote: »

I also think that the setting of specific individual goals (within the overall team goals) is a legitimate way of trying to address Dublin's key problem in recent years -

I think breaking down objectives to that minute level is one of the worst aspects of this. You can't turn players into fooking robots, trying to measure every performance by making sure they get in 2 blocks and 10 catches or whatever, this can only serve to distract players. Most of these lads have been playing GA since they could walk, they know how to play the game and should be allowed to use this natural ability and intuition and not be shackled by rubbish like this.
Why try to make the game more complicated than it needs to be? Look at KK last weekend, they played to a simple gameplan, everyone understood it and it worked because it simply relies on players work hard and use their natural ability and judgement.

This kind of rubbish is not unique to Dublin, it exists in various forms in half county teams in the country. A lot of these county managers would do better to read The Inner Game of Tennis than the Art of War or Confucius. This describes how overtraining and over-concentration on minute details of performance actually take away from athletes natural ability and instinct, seems like this could well be the case with dubs this year and our rugby team at WC too!

UnitedIrishman

My god, they really have lost the plot up there.

taidghbaby

tbh i would find nothing strange with this at all!

nearly all teams would have different approaches which other people looking in from the outside would find strange......and ive seen a few in my time!!

if the dubs had won this year then ya can bet that many cub teams around the country and even a few county ones would be following suit next year!

Culchie

taidghbaby wrote: »

tbh i would find nothing strange with this at all!

nearly all teams would have different approaches which other people looking in from the outside would find strange......and ive seen a few in my time!!

if the dubs had won this year then ya can bet that many cub teams around the country and even a few county ones would be following suit next year!

That's a bit like saying, we'll play chicken on the M50 for a week, if it works everyone will be doing it next year.....it won't, the result will be 'Splat'

It didn't work, Dubs were anihilated by Tyrone......'Splat'

UnitedIrishman

taidghbaby wrote: »

tbh i would find nothing strange with this at all!

nearly all teams would have different approaches which other people looking in from the outside would find strange......and ive seen a few in my time!!

if the dubs had won this year then ya can bet that many cub teams around the country and even a few county ones would be following suit next year!

The fact is, the players (at least one that we know of) believed that this Blue Book stuff was bollocks and gave it to the press. If you don't believe in it through the year, what must you be thinking when your managers are spouting ****e about the 'code' in the 'circle of trust' every week?

taidghbaby

Culchie wrote: »

That's a bit like saying, we'll play chicken on the M50 for a week, if it works everyone will be doing it next year.....it won't, the result will be 'Splat'

It didn't work, Dubs were anihilated by Tyrone......'Splat'

i fail to understand you arguement....dublins' management came up with an idea and it didnt work-whats that got to do with chickens??

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

The fact is, the players (at least one that we know of) believed that this Blue Book stuff was bollocks and gave it to the press. If you don't believe in it through the year, what must you be thinking when your managers are spouting ****e about the 'code' in the 'circle of trust' every week?

well in a panel of over 30 then its gonna be hard to keep everyone happy-i bet the core players are fully behind whatever the management do!

also my point is that every team has its own peculilar ways of preparing for campaigns/matches! you dont hear about 99.9% of them but because this is the dubs then everything is hyped out of proportion and we all have a great time saying how silly they are!!

Dr. Nick

The real question is, just how many years sneering at them can we get out of this? I'd say at least 5.

What an incentive to the new Meath manager, whoever he'll be (ummmh, only one candidate?). All he has to do is get his hands on one of these.

cabrwab

None !

Why does a meath or any other manager need to get there hands on one of these they have the majority of information from it. If a team gets this to laugh and joke at the opposition about it is the highest level of "sportsmanship" that the dublin team were constantly being called up on by the sunday game panel.

While this is funny and embarrassing, they are not the only team who try funny tactics to get the result. This year was an epic fail for the dublin team.

As bad as the blue book is, it worse that some player decided to reveal it too the press every team has a "meet the fockers circle of trust" and this player whoever it is thinks he is above what ever management team is in place and you'll probably find he's one that wasn't getting first team football.

This is one of the silliest psycho-babel bull i have heard.

homerjay2005

i wonder do they know who leaked it? it will surely come out!

Mikel

jackbhoy wrote: »

I think breaking down objectives to that minute level is one of the worst aspects of this. You can't turn players into fooking robots, trying to measure every performance by making sure they get in 2 blocks and 10 catches or whatever, this can only serve to distract players. Most of these lads have been playing GA since they could walk, they know how to play the game and should be allowed to use this natural ability and intuition and not be shackled by rubbish like this.
Why try to make the game more complicated than it needs to be? Look at KK last weekend, they played to a simple gameplan, everyone understood it and it worked because it simply relies on players work hard and use their natural ability and judgement.

This kind of rubbish is not unique to Dublin, it exists in various forms in half county teams in the country. A lot of these county managers would do better to read The Inner Game of Tennis than the Art of War or Confucius. This describes how overtraining and over-concentration on minute details of performance actually take away from athletes natural ability and instinct, seems like this could well be the case with dubs this year and our rugby team at WC too!

Exactly right.
The problem here is 'managers' who don't understand the game, they need boxes to be ticked to tell them who is performing.
A player could fulfil all of those requirements and play badly, you require the football intelligence to respond to situations as they arise.
They promote the pursuit of individual performance measures instead of developing a true team ethic. Just watch Tyrone and Kerry, how players sacrifice their own glory to put someone else in a better position to score.

Hopefully this will put an end to the cringeworthy carry on of the last few years.
Now, if they would just demolish that fcuking hill 16 they might get somewhere

Nalced_irl

Mikel wrote: »

Now, if they would just demolish that fcuking hill 16 they might get somewhere

NEVER!!

dats_right

The Bluebook nonsense is pathetic but not surprising. Pillar's poor judgement was again illustrated, in full glare of the tv cameras and media, as he allowed himself be put 'on duty' making a Garda chain to protect the winners of Sam. Wasn't he embarrassed as Mickey Harte whispered some consolatary(patronising) words into his ear? I mean wasn't it bad enough having Tyrone inflict one of the most humiliating defeats ever suffered by Dublin on his team, without having to protect them lifting Sam, whilst looking like a mug in his silly hat and high viz jacket! Where is the pride? Surely, he could have absented himself from the duty altogether [he can't be that desperate for a bit of overtime], or at the very least requested a less visible posting from his superiors (maybe in the Upper Cusack or something). But, I suppose we dub fans see now what he meant when he said he was going to make it to the All-Ireland final!

yahoo_moe

dats_right wrote: »

The Bluebook nonsense is pathetic but not surprising. Pillar's poor judgement was again illustrated, in full glare of the tv cameras and media, as he allowed himself be put 'on duty' making a Garda chain to protect the winners of Sam. Wasn't he embarrassed as Mickey Harte whispered some consolatary(patronising) words into his ear? I mean wasn't it bad enough having Tyrone inflict one of the most humiliating defeats ever suffered by Dublin on his team, without having to protect them lifting Sam, whilst looking like a mug in his silly hat and high viz jacket! Where is the pride? Surely, he could have absented himself from the duty altogether [he can't be that desperate for a bit of overtime], or at the very least requested a less visible posting from his superiors (maybe in the Upper Cusack or something). But, I suppose we dub fans see now what he meant when he said he was going to make it to the All-Ireland final!

So you're blaming the ex-Dublin manager for doing his job? Good man.

dats_right

yahoo_moe wrote: »

So you're blaming the ex-Dublin manager for doing his job? Good man.

Not at all, of course like the rest of us he has a job to do and that is fair enough. But did he have to allow himself be positioned protecting the Tyrone lads whilst getting Sam? If he desperately needed the overtime, why couldn't he have asked to be positioned in the stands or anywhere where he wouldn't be on tv? Wasn't it bad enough for him that Tyrone made his team look like thai lady-boys, without having to guard them in such a servile way! What next the ex-dubs manager on his knees shining boots? It was embarrassing.

cruiserweight

You might just want to tone it down a bit there dats_right, you seem to be bordering on trolling

For the record you can't have a go at Cafferey for doing his job IMO

Nalced_irl

dats right, That really is a pile of drivel. He has been doing the same job for god knows how many AI Finals at this stage, and because he managed Dublin you think he should run and hide under a pile of coats? Wheres the pride you ask? I think he just showed you where it is. Embarrassed in a game but he can put it behind him and get on with life. You almost sound as if you think he should skip off to Bolivia and change his name ffs!

Mikel

Nalced_irl wrote: »

NEVER!!

No they never will, but it's a gigantic albatross around their necks.
Dublin would have a much better chance without it

Erin Go Brath

dats_right wrote: »

The Bluebook nonsense is pathetic but not surprising. Pillar's poor judgement was again illustrated, in full glare of the tv cameras and media, as he allowed himself be put 'on duty' making a Garda chain to protect the winners of Sam. Wasn't he embarrassed as Mickey Harte whispered some consolatary(patronising) words into his ear? I mean wasn't it bad enough having Tyrone inflict one of the most humiliating defeats ever suffered by Dublin on his team, without having to protect them lifting Sam, whilst looking like a mug in his silly hat and high viz jacket! Where is the pride? Surely, he could have absented himself from the duty altogether [he can't be that desperate for a bit of overtime], or at the very least requested a less visible posting from his superiors (maybe in the Upper Cusack or something). But, I suppose we dub fans see now what he meant when he said he was going to make it to the All-Ireland final!

Thats harsh and uncalled for. Pillar guided Dublin to some great wins in the last few years. He didn't bring them the big prize, and got the strategy wrong a few times, but no need to rub it in. The guy was just doing his job on Sunday. Let him be.

dats_right

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

Pillar guided Dublin to some great wins in the last few years.

Arguably he did, but never when it really mattered or against a top team. Lets put some things into perspective, Leinster football is in the doldrums, the last time a provincial team competed in an AI final was in 2001(which they lost!). Without doubt it has been over the last decade, by far the weakest football province in the country in terms of AI wins and appearances. Dublin's 4 in-a-row Leinsters must be set in that background, quite frankly it was[and is] a very bleak period of provincial football with no other top quality teams around.

Ultimately, Dublin should be competing in and even winning AI titles, but we haven't now since '95 and don't look like we will anytime soon. Of course this isn't all Pillar's fault, afterall it's not his fault that he wasn't up to the job. Ultimately it would appear to be more of a mental weakness thing within Dublin teams. When the chips are really down and you need men to stand up and be counted what do Dublin do? Usually hide in the corner before rolling over and dying! Anybody who disagrees with this can just look at Dublin's results and performances over the past 5-6 years or longer in Big matches at the business end of the Championship. [only exception to this that springs to mind was Kerry SF last year, but even that we lost!]

I have already said that I've no problem with Pillar doing his job, ffs the man has to earn a crust! My point is that if it was so important for him to do overtime at Croker on Sunday, well maybe he could have had a chat with his superior and asked for a less visible posting in the cirsumstances. I can only conclude that he actually wanted to be in that position. In my opinion (obviously not shared by many others on this forum-although strangely has been picked up on by many of my acquaintances from the bogs of Ireland who found it hillarious- some of their politer comments were along the lines that it is the closest a Dub is going to get to Sam,etc) allowing himself be put in the situation where he was protecting the Tyrone lads in such a servile way was highly embarrassing. And to be fair, there is absolutely no way you would see an ex-Kerry (or most other serious Counties)manager in that position!

I think the sooner we get rid of gimmicks like the blue book and start concentrating on building mental toughness and moreover a genuine winning mentality the better.

[Mods: I hope this is suffiently toned down? I agree the thai lady-boy comment was a bit harsh, so it's really a good job that I didn't post anything on Black Saturday 16/08/08 so!]