Michael Mann's Public Enemies hype thread

Sad Professor

Anyone else excited to see this? It's my most anticipated movie for next year.

IMDB synopsis:

The Feds try to take down notorious American gangsters John Dillinger, Baby Face Nelson and Pretty Boy Floyd during a booming crime wave in the 1930s.

Michael Mann directing; staring Johnny Depp as Dillinger, Marion Cotillard and Christian Bale. How can this not be great?

They wrapped principal photography at the end of June. Mann was forced to work with a significantly tighter schedule (due to the threat of an actor's strike) and budget ($80m vs $120m) than he had on Miami Vice but the result should still be great. Plenty of action. Current release date is July. Teaser trailer is due before the end of the year.

There's loads of behind the scenes footage (shot by Depp's crazy female fanbase) on youtube. Here are a few:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mf4PEGC5Apk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swBuz4MXK6w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8juQxvmUto

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3Uozp9-IUk

What does everyone think?

Ivan

Looks pretty promising, have to admit...

robby^5

It's Michael Mann, Miami Vice aside, his movies are always awesome.

Pretty excited about this but cant stand how far away it seems to be

Jarrath

Hey take a look at the trailer on http://www.apple.com/trailers/universal/publicenemies/

Looks like its gonna be a good one.. Can't wait for this.

robby^5

Looks very pretty, wouldn't expect any less from Mann tbh.

This is pretty much the only summer flick I'm looking forward to.

Sanjuro

Yeah, it's gonna be great. Mann's a legend. And even Miami Vice, his weakest film, is excellent.

bnt

Mann has a knack of drawing great performances from actors I wouldn't normally consider great e.g. Val Kilmer in Heat, Tom Cruise in Collateral. (I wasn't convinced by Colin Farrell in Miami Vice, though - I thought he was better in Phone Booth.) That's not to say he doesn't do well with great actors, either - such as Jamie Fox, De Niro and Pacino, or Daniel Day Lewis (Mohicans). The signs for this one are good, methinks.

Running Bing

Collateral aside the mannmeister never really did it for me. This looks awesome though and Im looking very forward to it (moreso to see Depp as John Dillinger).

RNL

robby^5 wrote: »

Looks very pretty, wouldn't expect any less from Mann tbh.

This is pretty much the only summer flick I'm looking forward to.

Likewise. I'm surprised it's getting a Summer release, actually.

pinksoir

Looks sweet. Bale and Depp and Mann and depression-era America, Oh my.

blow69

I was lucky enough to see parts of this being filmed in Chicago last June/July. We were walking down the street and saw this film set, but we thought it was probably a small independent film so we only watched for a bit. Next thing we know we see Johnny Depp and Christian Bale.

Looks to be a good film.

purple_hatstand

This can only be great! Can't wait...

speedboatchase

Way too much Depp in that trailer for me, they do realise they have the lead from TDK and Terminator in this cast too right?

Sad Professor

speedboatchase wrote: »

Way too much Depp in that trailer for me, they do realise they have the lead from TDK and Terminator in this cast too right?

Bale's role is quite small and underdeveloped. It's not like Heat with the cop and criminal going head to head. The movie is all about Dillinger/Depp. Baleheads will be disappointed.

Miguel_Sanchez

Sanjuro wrote: »

And even Miami Vice, his weakest film, is excellent.

I take it you've never seen The Keep then?

And for all interested here's a movie blog of a friend of mine with some great Michael mann essays (amongst other things):
http://kirbydotsmovies.blogspot.com/

JP Liz

Its getting Oscar buzz already for Mann and Depp which is a good sign

I cant wait to see

Its got a great cast with Depp, Bale, Cotillard (cant wait to hear her accent) but also Crudup, Tatum, Wenham, Ribisi and Dorff

Def one of the films of the year

BopNiblets

Yeah its got a great cast, can't wait, I loves Mike Mann!

robby^5

Mann does tend to get great performances from his actors and in my opinion this could be Johnny Depps best shot at an oscar in years, providing it's a good performance! (which It looks to be on the surface)

Vokes

Trailer #2 is out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uclFxBFbAQ

Really looking forward to this.

kraggy

Find MM very hit and miss.

Personally, my favourite film by him is The Insider.

Miami Vice was a disaster as far as I'm concerned.

And Heat was way overated. That's in my opinion anyway.

Sad Professor

Anyone got any thoughts on the (so very digital-looking) cinematography? It's proving to be very controversial around the net.

Unlike Fincher and others who are trying to make digital look like film, Mann is really embracing digital for what it is. The incredible deep-focus shots and the night photography look great but they also really show up the flaws.

gman2k

kraggy wrote: »

Find MM very hit and miss.

Personally, my favourite film by him is The Insider.

Miami Vice was a disaster as far as I'm concerned.

And Heat was way overated. That's in my opinion anyway.

I think MM movies are stunning, and the key action scenes are always impressive - none so better than Heat.
I wish that MM had of got the chance to direct 'The Departed' (remake of Infernal Affairs), as I think that Scorcese made a hash of the main fight scene, and MM could have made it a really sharp thriller.
Now, back to 'Heat'. Whilst this movie (a remake of LA Takedown also by MM) was classic, I think it was about 45mins too long, and suffered from extraneous side storys and some very unrealistic dialogue. If it had been trimmed down in the editing, it would be one of the all time greats. The bank job scene on the street was fantastic, and I still remember hearing the gunfire in the cinema - truly surround sound. (Can't wait to have my home cinema complete to hear that again.):D
Personally, I loved his take on 'Miami Vice', digital photography was stunning, soundtrack was great, and overall a cracker of a movie.

bnt

Not long to go now, and I'm getting hyped-up already. I don't know any other film-maker who does the kind of research and development that Michael Mann does on his films, and in the case of Public Enemies, he's gone heavily for historical authenticity. Roger Ebert spoke to Mann recently, and compiled Mann's comments in to a single piece, here.

What I get from this piece is that Mann was fascinated by the character of John Dillinger, the psychology, and all the factors that shaped him in to this expert yet reckless bank robber. It didn't just come out of nowhere, but from the harsh prison conditions and the things he learned there:

One thing that fascinated me early on was how they thought. Not just period cars and period places and period clothes but period attitudes, period thinking. What the prison system was like that he came out of because it’s very different that it is now. When we meet him, he’s only been on the street for actually about 11 weeks and the prior 10 years he was locked up in a horrendous prison conditions. And how they viewed life related to was so different. If we do anything, anything you’d like, from psychoanalysis to astrology and Scientology, whatever, to make better choices and affect the outcomes of our life--that’s completely alien to their way of thinking. They believed in fate, which had nothing to do with the way they thought or what they did. That’s where expressions like, “well, there’s a bullet with your name on it,” , “when your time’s up, your time’s up.” In other words, this kind of Calvinism without God and it’s kind of predetermination.

So when Johnny Depp gets shot in our movie and he goes down and his head hits the ground, he’s looking at the exact brick wall and that old wooden telephone poll that Dillinger looked at when Dillinger was down. Dillinger lived for about three minutes after he was shot. And what was in Dillinger’s eyes was in Johnny Depp’s eyes and it became somewhat magical.

Michael is the Mann, and the other Michael can go jump in the Bay: this kind of thought is what makes Mann a great film-maker.

Galvasean

I'm really looking forward to this. Mann is a fine director. All of his movies look stunning. With the exception of Miami Vice (which was a bit doring) I've loved all of the Mann movies I've seen.
Great to see Johnny Depp play a character who isn't OTT Tim Burton inspired 'dark and gloomy' or an OTT pirate with crap dialogue. Hopefully this will be the role that really gets him back to top form.
As for Bale it will be interesting to see how he reacts to being the supporting role after so many movies as the main star. Hopefully he'll bring his A-game as not to be upstaged too much.

All in all, the signs look promising.

grames_bond

Galvasean wrote: »

As for Bale it will be interesting to see how he reacts to being the supporting role after so many movies as the main star. Hopefully he'll bring his A-game....

...and not bring his grovelly growley voice! :pac:

RadioGaGa

Cannot wait for this film! I've read the book it was based on and it is a must read, the film looks class. Looking forward to Depp as Dillinger, Bale is pretty consistent in his roles so I'm thinking this will be a great film. The actor I'm most looking forward to seeing is Stephen Graham as Baby Face Nelson, I really liked him in This is England.

Big Knox

Can't believe the opinions on Miami Vice in this thread. It was literally one of the worst films i've ever seen, absolute complete and utter rubbish.

MM is a talented director no doubht but seriously, anyone saying Miami Vice was good needs to take off the rose tinted glasses and watch it again. :eek:

Sleazus

JP Liz wrote: »

Its getting Oscar buzz already for Mann and Depp which is a good sign

Really? Only good news Oscar wise I'd been hearing was Billy Crudup for a supporting actor award? I thought the lead acting awards were already over crowded this year, not even counting surprise contenders like Gosling?

Still, I would love to see either of those two awards you mention actually happen.

uncleoswald

Sad Professor wrote: »

Anyone got any thoughts on the (so very digital-looking) cinematography? It's proving to be very controversial around the net.

Unlike Fincher and others who are trying to make digital look like film, Mann is really embracing digital for what it is. The incredible deep-focus shots and the night photography look great but they also really show up the flaws.

While it worked to a degree with something like Collateral I don't think it really fits with a movie like this unless Mann has decided to film it in a gritty documentary type style. Its liking putting contemporay music over a period film, you really need to have a clear idea of what you are trying to achieve. It really jumps out at you during the trailer, where you should be seeing lush photography to evoke the setting you are seeing digital pixels. Can't say I'm a fan even if I see the benefits.

Mizu_Ger

uncleoswald wrote: »

While it worked to a degree with something like Collateral I don't think it really fits with a movie like this unless Mann has decided to film it in a gritty documentary type style. Its liking putting contemporay music over a period film, you really need to have a clear idea of what you are trying to achieve. It really jumps out at you during the trailer, where you should be seeing lush photography to evoke the setting you are seeing digital pixels. Can't say I'm a fan even if I see the benefits.

The digital look to the trailer has put me right off the film. It's exactly as you say, it just doesn't fit with a film set in the past. It worked well in Collateral and even better for Miami Vice, but not this (from viewing the trailer anyway).

bigslick

Saw this film last week and must say i throughly enjoyed it. I too thought the digital format would ruin it, but i found myself forgetting about that as soon as the film started.

Lots of great scenes, and depp plays dillinger very well.

Sad Professor

Just back from seeing this and I loved it! Mind you, I'm a huge Michael Mann fan and loved Miami Vice as well so take that you will.

People who complained about lack of characterisation in Miami Vice won't find a huge improvement in Public Enemies. Mann has always being a bit minimalist in his approach to traditional dialogue-driven characterisation and exposition. He tries to depict character through action and he is more interested in the subtleties of an actor's performance than what's coming out of their mouth. Instead of telling you who the character is, he tries to show you. Some of his films are more successful at this than others. PE strikes a nice balance imo, reminiscent of Mohicans.

The digital looks like digital but it still looks great. There's an amazing car chase sequence that takes place in complete darkness with no artificial light except for the headlights — that would impossible on film.

robby^5

I liked it, still though I rank Collateral and Heat as Manns best work, but this is very good.

A major disappointment was the sound editing during the first hour, it was pretty bad. There'd be characters talking in a car and it would sound like they were talking through a tin can, really annoyed me as usually Manns sound work is excellent... but I'm hoping this was just the cinema or the theatrical release and its cleared up for dvd.

But other than that, it's a good film and most definately the best big summer film so far imo.

Corholio

Just after seeing this tonight in ahem....Manhattan . I thoroughly, thoroughly enjoyed it. Depp is immense as Dillinger and although he plays a figure the public took a like to, you always get that sense of bite too he had in his character to get stuff done. Bale was good too as the cop chasing him down, not much to stretch to for Bale's part though but i thought there were two other real good performances in this film.

Jason Clarke who plays Dillingers right hand man "Red" is excellent although his parts are short, i thought when he was on screen he was great.

Billy Crudup who played Hoover was very good as well and definitely wasnt in the film enough.

I barely recognised Dorff as Homer in the film either, he looks like a young, tattered Mickey Rourke in this. Some would say Channing Tatum being in the film for about a minute is about all he should get. But i wont say that. Or maybe i just did lol

bnt

Saw this earlier today at Cineworld 14, which I can't recommend for this. It was a 35mm print and the sound transfer was a bit muddy, I thought. Mann recommends you see this in digital, and I agree, but don't sit close to the screen as I did. It's nearly all hand-held camera work, which gets rather "active" in the action scenes. :rolleyes:

Apart from that, I thought it was great. As already noted, Mann doesn't do much Basil Exposition, though it did get a little when J Edgar Hoover introduces Purvis to the press early on. There were some definite references to Heat in the bank scenes, such as the jumping on the counters and sliding bags across the floor. I also thought I saw some sly commentary about the current recession in there, such as the sign in one bank: "Secured by the FDIC". If you've been following the current financial situation in the USA, well, you'll also be chortling at that bit.

I also liked some of the smaller parts, such as Giovanni Ribisi (almost unrecognisable), Lili Taylor as a sheriff, but it was weird to see Leelee Sobieski as Polly,

the hooker/waitress that Dillinger took to the movie,

doing nothing other than look kind-of-pretty. I'm not sure what I think about the climactic scene, which was a bit melodramatic, but I thought the ending was perfect.

grames_bond

i really really enjoyed this movie! great performances from all involved! (yet another accent to add to bales arsenal) A real proper gangster movie, you liked who you liked and hated who you hated regardless of what "side" they were on. Such a great movie, mann, depp and bale all did a great job with this one!

purple_hatstand

Saw this last night and I still feel a bit "meh" tbh - unsure about the digital and some of the tight close-ups made the action sequences feel a little confused and out-of-focus. As has been mentioned here already, watching a film version of a digital movie is always going to be a bit of a weird and disappointing experience.

Having said that, the first thing I thought when it was over was, "I can't wait to watch it again" and Mann's movies are always better with repeated viewings. I also think this could be the first film I've ever seen in the cinema which will look and feel better at home.

I will be watching it again before I appraise it properly.

CrazyTalk

Saw this two nights ago and was fairly bored. Not a patch on 'Heat' tbh.

BlitzKrieg

just back from it.

I wouldnt be a big Mann fan, so alot of what I knew I wouldnt like were expected. The digital filmmaking wont be an issue for me because I expected it. I'd argue a setting that takes place before the rise of digital technology would have pushed me to use film (even low grade stock) over digital for atmosphere. But its practically Mann's trademark by now, So I accept the good and the bad of the technology in his hands.

Aside from that I know nothing of John Derringer or the source material so coming in blind I struggled initially with the feeling that I walked in halfway through a film and had to work out who fit where. Not a bad thing mind you all the time. Its nice to get a feel for the history of character's relationships by their brief interactions. Sadly the film fails to develop on this and it starts abruptly briefly picks up, sags, picks up again briefly, sags and then hints at picking up a final time and instead finishes. So as a whole an inconsistent film.

Unlike Sad Professor I felt that the characters roped themselves too much into what they said they were like rather then by their actions. Too much of what I assume Johnny Depp's character was meant to be was fleshed out by his conversations with his girl then by his actions. IF anything his actions betrayed his words and made it appear that he didnt embrace any of the stuff he said he did. If Mann intended that then touche but the film's ending made me think the focus was on what he said rather then his actions.

Depp's acting was fine, but he didnt make the character very appealling, he weaved from aggressive to timid far too much and in the end failed to really connect as a character and just proved more interesting as something to disect in a documentary.

Similary Christian Bale's role while finely acted suffered the same issue he had with Terminator Salvation. He was pretty much an empty space to me that took up too much screen time in comparison to his much more interesting subortinate, the texan ranger played by stephan lang, who considering his role in the story was criminally underused.


THe plot like I said starts abruptly, but quickly finds a groove that it builds on. Then it pretty much takes away far too quickly almost everything it built up and starts a new starting with an entertaining prison escape and ending in a bloody firefight that is at one point remeniscent of bonnie and clyde's ending.

The film sort of starts over again but this time I had hopes that some of the elements that kept getting dropped in the film might come out to spice things up but instead it ends on a rather anti climatic scene.


On specifics

I rather hoped the whole organised crime and the crime bill elements would overall play a bigger role in the film, or be a bigger part of the ending, but it stayed in the film's background despite some scenes hinting at it becoming a bigger plot element, which is disapointing because its a great parrallel to the types of crime elements of the FBI should focus on

Overall the film left me with the feeling

THat they are all assh*les in the 30's, the cops, the crooks, the gals, intended or not the film has the same f*cking cops feeling at the end as Bonnie and Clyde did, which seems very much to be intended, but unlike bonnie and clyde Johnny Depp and the script failed to make Derringer an appealling and interesting enough character for me to feel sad for him.

Karl Hungus

Saw it myself tonight, and throught it was very good indeed. I can see the criticisms, but when the last film you've seen in the cinema was Transformers 2, this was a far better experience indeed.

BlitzKrieg

I actually went to Ice Age 3 before this , I am sad to say Simon Pegg playing an insane weazel won me over very strongly

not saying its better then Public Enemies, completely different kind of film, but despite being very predictable and by the books IA3 was well crafted, entertaining fun and above all consistent. Unlike the vast majority of this year's action/adventure blockbusters.

Actually as a series it has proven to be one of the few that improves bit by bit with each entry. The last one was average and this one was above average.

metamorphosis

I liked this. I found it hard to get into the fist half hour and through the middle the story telling jumps around for a few min leading to confusment for me but overall it was enjoyable.

i thought at just over two hours long, which isnt that long ... it was still a tad too long for this film. Could have been done in 90min i think.

I would have liked if they showed a bit more of dillengers side of paying off peoples debts as he was known for back in his day

purple_hatstand

The more I think about it, the more I wonder why Mann decided this was a film he had to make given the fact that he's already delivered one of the best cops & robbers movies of modern times.

Tommy-guns and 30's cars were a huge draw I expect.

Does anyone here know much/anything about the source book?

MikeHoncho

This film bored me to tears and I am a fan of Mann and Depp. Could have done with shaving about 20 minutes off the run time. Its very well made and everything but I dont know it just didnt grab me at any point. The costumes and sets are excellent and it should be a compelling story but I just found it lacking a certain spark to keep me interested. I really wanted to like it too but just couldnt:(

awhir

purple_hatstand wrote: »

The more I think about it, the more I wonder why Mann decided this was a film he had to make given the fact that he's already delivered one of the best cops & robbers movies of modern times.

Tommy-guns and 30's cars were a huge draw I expect.

Does anyone here know much/anything about the source book?

what movie would that be ? looking for a good watch tonight

Savman

I thought it was muck.

RadioGaGa

purple_hatstand wrote: »

The more I think about it, the more I wonder why Mann decided this was a film he had to make given the fact that he's already delivered one of the best cops & robbers movies of modern times.

Tommy-guns and 30's cars were a huge draw I expect.

Does anyone here know much/anything about the source book?

The source book "Public Enemies" by Bryan Burrough is a great read and it doesn't focus just on Dillinger but on Bonnie and Clyde, Pretty Boy Floyd and the Barker gang all who operated at around the same time. It reads like a thriller and I can't recommend it enough.

I'm going to the film on Wednesday and am a bit worried about the mixed reviews. With Depp and Bale it can't be that bad.

purple_hatstand

awhir wrote: »

what movie would that be ? looking for a good watch tonight

can't tell whether or not you're joking, so 'Heat'.

Chocoholic84

I'm afraid this didn't impress me at all. Way too much macho "let's kill everyone" goings-on, not enough of a story - Johnny's beauty was the only thing that stopped me from going to sleep.

Hippo

MikeHoncho wrote: »

This film bored me to tears and I am a fan of Mann and Depp. Could have done with shaving about 20 minutes off the run time. Its very well made and everything but I dont know it just didnt grab me at any point. The costumes and sets are excellent and it should be a compelling story but I just found it lacking a certain spark to keep me interested. I really wanted to like it too but just couldnt:(

I too really wanted to like it. It didn't bore me to tears, but it really suffers in comparison with Heat. The movie looks great, period detail lovingly depicted, but somehow Depp didn't convince as Dillinger; maybe he's just too pretty for the role, Dillinger was very hard-faced. Depp is a real 'theatrical' actor, he's all big gestures and playing to the back of the hall, I think he finds it harder to 'do less'. In Heat, Val Kilmer managed to convey far more with very few words than Depp managed here with almost all of the camera time. A real missed opportunity.

paulieeye

Thought it was good, worth a look anyway.

Anyone notice the constant changing of film quality? Like from normal movie quality, to some sort of shakey cam TV quality to bad quality nighttime scenes...or else it was the cinema I saw it in