Editing a Flash Webpage

Smcgie

Hi folks, I am in the middle of getting a flash website made. I have asked the devloper to make (very small) changes to the site, in terms of adding pictures and swapping the location of one of the links. This developer is asking for 100s to do these simple task and i feel like i am being ripped off.

Can anyone tell me, is there that major workload in a flash page that you wouldnt have in an normal Html page. I myself can easily edit an html page, but i have never been involved with flash content.

If i thought it was simple enough i would give the developer the money he's owed and make the changes myself.

Best Regards,
Shane

forbairt

Smcgie wrote: »

Hi folks, I am in the middle of getting a flash website made. I have asked the devloper to make (very small) changes to the site, in terms of adding pictures and swapping the location of one of the links. This developer is asking for 100s to do these simple task and i feel like i am being ripped off.

Can anyone tell me, is there that major workload in a flash page that you wouldnt have in an normal Html page. I myself can easily edit an html page, but i have never been involved with flash content.

If i thought it was simple enough i would give the developer the money he's owed and make the changes myself.

Best Regards,
Shane

Really it depends on how the system is built up.

There is a MAJOR difference between html and flash.

You're talking actionscript / timelines / scenes and so on.

If you'd originally asked for a mechanism to update it yourself it would have been better. Now assuming the developer didn't put in an easy to update mechanism I'll assume you're locked in.

Do you have the source files ?
Do you have Flash ?

Smcgie

Yes i sourced everything on site. Pictures, text everything. His only job was to build the site to a TEMPLATED specification. Having done the template i wanted to add pictures, swap links etc (honestly nothing substancial) and he is a asking for over 245+ to make these small changes.

Relations with him have not been good as he has taken over 6months to create this site which is nothing but 5pages of text and about 5-6 pictures that will hardly ever need updating. He never replies to my emails and when i ring him he says he never recieved them.

Basically i think he's taking the mick. I dont know what to do.:rolleyes:

kcim

Are u bound to him? As I would love to take it on board

aidan_walsh

kcim wrote: »

Are u bound to him? As I would love to take it on board

No solicitations on this forum, thanks.

Smcgie

kcim wrote: »

Are u bound to him? As I would love to take it on board

Funny enough, i was just looking through another post and i seen your website (simplepixels) . I have already given the developer half the money :mad: so im stuck between a rock and a hard place.

What sort of money would you be talking?

Smcgie

sorry aidan just after seeing you post

aidan_walsh

If you want someone to take on the job, you can post the job on www.adverts.ie. Thanks.

Smcgie

Is there any downloadable software that can assist editing a flash website?

heggie

Smcgie wrote: »

If i thought it was simple enough i would give the developer the money he's owed and make the changes myself.

So you owe this developer money? shouldn't you pay up? Isn't this a major warning sign to anybody contemplating taking this on from you?

Smcgie

Ill explain...

I have given the designer half the money upfront to create the site (which is fair) He asked me to write up what i wanted on the site and source pictures. I did both of the following and sent this to him. Now that he has the raw materials he designs the site layout. I now want to make small changes to the layout and he is requesting extreme fees.

I owe him the finished fee (half the total $) but i dont agree to parting with the finished fee until the job is complete.

What i am saying is maybe i should pay him the finished fee without making the changes (which will cost a small fortune) and then do it myself or get someone else to do so.

Money is not an issue, communtication with the developer, and daylight robbery are. He thinks im going to give him 245+ to make minor changes that should be included as he is the DESIGNER. :rolleyes:

heggie

well not really. Project scope is one of the most important parts in quoting design & development. If you're requesting 'small changes' , that may be outside the initial project scope. Do you have a contact? if so, this should be a major part of that contract. It's best for both parties if you finished the job to the agreed specification, and request changes after, as new work. Also remember, what you think are small changes, may actually be quite large at the stage of development the site is at.

Smcgie

take a look at the site yourself, its a mess in my opnion. There's numerous spelling mistakes and he has simply just copyed and pasted everthing i sent him, insufficent and total lack of design in my opnion.

Let me know would this meet your standereds?

http://samyakonline.info/bero/
:rolleyes:

Shane

Liam Byrne

Smcgie wrote: »

Money is not an issue, communtication with the developer, and daylight robbery are. He thinks im going to give him 245+ to make minor changes that should be included as he is the DESIGNER. :rolleyes:

1) Very few sites should be done in Flash unless it's absolutely essential (and I've yet to see one that is.

2) If you use Flash, you should only use it as and when required (e.g. as PART OF a page) if Flash is used for the whole site then the tiniest of changes can have MAJOR knock-on effects

3) Even for "normal" HTML sites, relatively minor repositioning, resizing or layout adjustments can be a huge job; if the site is done right, with CSS, the impact can be minimised, but even minimised can be big.

4) minor "changes" are precisely that - changes. They take time and cost money. And there's no definition of "minor" without seeing what you originally agreed to, how the site is implemented, and what the changes are.

What you're looking at is approximately 1 days' work, from the charge that you mentioned. That could be 2 hours designing the change within what's there, 3 hours implementing it, and 3 hours testing - none of which is extreme, tbh, particularly if there are animations and timelines involved.

There's a chance that he might be taking the piss, but there's also a good chance that he's not, and screaming "highway robbery" is probably unfair; slightly overcharging would appear to be the worst description of it.

Would you prefer if he charged you €50 and then your site didn't work in some browser or other ?

Smcgie

take a look at the site yourself, its a mess in my opnion. There's numerous spelling mistakes and he has simply just copyed and pasted everthing i sent him, insufficent and total lack of design in my opnion.

Let me know would this meet your standerds?

http://samyakonline.info/bero/
:rolleyes:

Shane

Smcgie

Take a look at the site yourself, its a mess in my opnion. There's numerous spelling mistakes and he has simply just copyed and pasted everthing i sent him, insufficent and total lack of design in my opnion.

Let me know would this meet your standerds as a (and i quote) "A Professionally Designed Website"

http://samyakonline.info/bero/
:rolleyes:

Shane

kcim

aidan_walsh wrote: »

No solicitations on this forum, thanks.

Sorry 'bout that Mr.Boards

Liam Byrne

Smcgie wrote: »

take a look at the site yourself, its a mess in my opnion. There's numerous spelling mistakes

That's not good, but...

....he has simply just copyed and pasted everthing i sent him

So you provided text with spelling mistakes ? Did your contract state that you would provide proper text ?

Yes, I would often fix the more obvious spelling mistakes, but even at that I can't guarantee to catch them all. If you were to provide the text, then you should have proof-read it.

Let me know would this meet your standerds?

The spelling in your post, or the whole site ?

Smcgie

Take a look at the site yourself, its a mess in my opnion. There's numerous spelling mistakes and he has simply just copyed and pasted everthing i sent him, insufficent and total lack of design (i think)

Let me know would this meet your standerds as a (and i quote) "A Professionally Designed Website"

http://samyakonline.info/bero/
:rolleyes:

Shane

heggie

eh read it the first time. The site isn't great by any means, but hey you get what you pay for, i'm guessing the price is what attracted you to him. Always hire someone based on their portfolio of work. Also, he was hired to design a site, not to be a copywriter. If you give bad copy, it's not up to a website designer or developer to correct that.

Liam Byrne

Had a quick look, and there's absolutely no reason that the site should be in Flash.

Most of the images that appear give you a "click here" cursor, but don't do anything.

Text in "pop-up" windows is too small to read.

Were you provided with (and did you agree to) static proofs of what the site would look like before implementation started ?

And what are the "minor changes" that you are requesting ? And also - what was the original price/quote for the site ? That would also have a bearing on how much "changes of mind" can be absorbed.

kcim

Smcgie wrote: »

take a look at the site yourself, its a mess in my opnion. There's numerous spelling mistakes and he has simply just copyed and pasted everthing i sent him, insufficent and total lack of design in my opnion.

Let me know would this meet your standerds?

http://samyakonline.info/bero/
:rolleyes:

Shane

Hi Shane, I'm appalled with so-called designers taken well established business like yourselves for a ride. There is no reason for your website to be done in Flash. The type of business that you have would have been better to do the site with CSS. And as for comic-sans, not good mate.

jhegarty

the site took over 30 to load on 3g connection... it won't be found on a search engine at all... and even if I did find it , it would have click back before the load finished...

no need for flash at all...

Myxomatosis

A lot of the text too small, can't read vertical text, scroll bars don't work properly with mouse wheel. All text should be set to selectable, allowing people to copy and paste info off your site.

Flash movie taller than my screen (1440 x 900) which causes web browser to show scroll bars, but mouse wheel again doesn't work because the flash movie grabs the scroll event before the browser does.

Basic layout shouldn't be a problem to move a link or change a pic. Download Flash CS3 30 day trial and do it yourself.

smcelhinney

All good posts above Shane. There are 2 sides to this:

1) This is a brochure website and shouldnt have been built in flash, was this your developers stipulation or yours?
2) Unless you are a flash/web developer, you cannot decide what is and is not a minor change.

Also, Im sure I've seen that Flash site somewhere before? Or a variation on it. I may be speaking out of turn on that, and apologies to your developer if I ham done him/her an injustice.

Also, as far as I know if you pay for Flash development, you are entitled to the source, unless there is a contract between you and the developer which states otherwise. If you are absolutely certain that what you are looking for is a minimal change, pay the guy for work done, demand the source code, and have someone else change it (or better still, learn how to do it yourself, it will save you haing to pay maintenance in the future).

HTH,
Stephen

Smcgie

sorry guys, vodafone 3g playing up this evening.

An few examples of changes i requested and costs.

Make the flash display itself smaller to fit into the browser properly (no scrolling to see homepage) COST=140

swap the positions of vertical homepage link and contact us link - COST=245

I sourced a few pictures and asked him to make a collaise on the flash moving page COST=245

Add a pop-up window to 2 pictures (when clicked) and add text COST=185

As for the flash decision, i approched him on the matter after meeting a couple of nice flash sites and he recommended it as "the growing age of the internet means faster broadband speeds for flash pages, and flash will add character to your site" (cost extra 150 i might add :rolleyes:)

I checked and double checked all text i sent to him. Most (not all) of the spelling mistakes on site are overtypes by the designer. Some information has even been typed twice side-by-side.

I sent him a info on the FAQs page. I made clear in blue writing and in brackets (MAKE www.sei.ie a link) he simply copy and pasted the text INCLUDING THE TEXT MAKED BLUE i& BRACKETS onto the site.:(

heggie

sounds like a language barrier, and it's not a very professional result, but as I said earlier, you get what you pay for, and I'll bet that this site didn't cost professional industry rates. There is rarely a case for an all flash site.

heggie

that's put together using tables, which, nowadays is a bad way to put a site together. Also, having the nav in flash, and with no text alternative is not recommended, Especially when all those effects can be achieved with javascript.

Both that site, and yours also have a 'templatey' feel. I'm not suggesting that they are templates - I've nothign to back this up, but they do feel that way to me, little thought has gone into the design of them imo.

Smcgie

http://www.kildeal.com/kildareheritage/index.html This is a website created by the same company. Its not as if they cannot design websites..
The link above is what i believe to be a classy and well layed out webpage.

This is what attracted me to the company. Money for the site was not an issue. All i want is a website that has character, class and something which i in the future i hope to develop into a larger end of my business.

In terms of "you get what you pay for" The link above was created by the site and i cannot see why he is incapable of doing the same for me

heggie

- see my response above, that's still not quality design imo

Smcgie

heggie wrote: »

Both that site, and yours also have a 'templatey' feel.

They are templates. He asked me to look through templates and suggest what i would like as a page. He said that this was only to let him know what i was after then the template page would be COMPLETLY changed to make it unique for my business.

Somehow i doubt he changed much on the templates. I might just have to bite the bullet and cut off this dead limb.

The famous quote "You get what you pay for" is prob something i'll deff remember for the next episode of webdesign