M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

KrisW1001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122323505#Comment_122323505

If you're looking for justification of a previously held belief, you can always find "research" that backs it up.

(Although, if you did want to discuss it, you could post a link and we can discuss it).

But 80 km/h? Go try that on the current N20. If you can maintain it without flinching, consider rallying.

We're well used to trolls on here. Your effort is about a 5/10. Thanks for dropping by.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122323536#Comment_122323536

You are waffling. From Buttervant , through the Ballybeg bends, Mallow on through Ballyvolane and into Rathduff us one of the poorest stretches of road in the country. The distance from Limerick to Cork is 55 miles and it takes about an hour and a half to cover that distance whenever there is a bit of traffic on that road. Average speeds would be as low as 60km/hour.

0n the economic benefit people already from Linerick go to Dublin or Kikdare village rather than shop in Cork. The big plus for Limerick is it will be the central location for a population base of a million plus when this road is build.

And the economic benefits are not just for the three cities but the towns such Ennis, Mallow, Charlesville. Team will be two hours from Cork City, compared to 15 years agonit was neatly 5 hours.

hans aus dtschl

Just dropping by with a "sustainable" slant on this: the improvements for all modes of transport on the corridor (but particularly sustainable modes) will also allow more sustainable development of towns on the corridor, where town growth and inhabitant quality of life is generally limited by the current N20. Not to mention the associated improvement to quality of life in Hospital, Ballylanders, Caherconlish etc. No M20 also means no improved road link to P&R stations and in some cases no P&R (bus) locations at all.

Could it have more sustainable infrastructure? Yes, some on here have pointed out some of the gaps.

But is it one of the best motorway schemes I've seen in Ireland from a sustainability perspective? I think yes. Dublin Port Tunnel is all I can think of that beats it.

Hibernicis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122323536#Comment_122323536

I note that you have already deleted 90% of your original content from posts #8409 and #8410. Regarding the data supporting the road safety arguments, a summary, which was widely reported at the time, was published by the N/M20 project office in 2021. This was based on data produced by the RSA.

https://corklimerick.ie/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/NM20-Cork-to-Limerick-Collision-Analysis-Media-Release.pdf

Hibernicis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122318532#Comment_122318532

Reminder, webinar at 7pm today, link is included in the above post

I sent on the following questions:

Hi

I really appreciate the comprehensive update issued on the 24th  June. It answers a lot of questions and it’s great to see the project progressing.

I have a few questions for the Webinar this evening:

The design includes a Freight Hub in Mallow and “A small amount of vehicle parking will also be provided for active travel and park and share.” Why not provide a full Transport Hub in addition to the Freight Hub in Mallow ?

Where does the project’s responsibility end in relation to the Transport hubs – will these be finished to allow full operational use from day 1 (e.g. surfaced, lined, lighting and charging provided, bicycle racking etc) and will the project include responsibility for ensuring that transport providers (i.e. bus services) will be operating from day 1 ? What security features will be provided at the hubs ?

Will the Mallow Relief Road continue as a separate project or will it be incorporated into the M20 project, given that the two meet at Mallow Junction ?

What provision has been made to upgrade the R522 between Buttevant Junction and Buttevant Main Street, and what type of junction is planned where the R522 meets Buttevant Main Street ?

In the absence of a junction to either the immediate north or west of Charleville, what provisions are being made to ensure the free flow of traffic to/from the R515 and Charleville Junction, and to avoid bottlenecking where the R515 meets Charleville Main Street ?

Accepting that the responsibility for setting toll charges rests elsewhere, what is the project team’s view on the level of charging for each of the segments and for an end to end journey, with reference to the current charges on the following roads:

cjpm

Did anyone see the webinar on Wed evening?

Or maybe @Hibernicis ’s long list of well thought out questions crashed their server!! 😂

Hibernicis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122341559#Comment_122341559

I did join the webinar but have been travelling. Will post a summary later today.

Limerick74

paper never refused ink

https://www.live95fm.ie/news/live95-news/patrickswell-residents-fear-hgv-onslaught-due-to-m20-design/

Hibernicis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122342462#Comment_122342462

What are they on about ? Why on earth will the M20 development "drive between 8000 to 10000 HGV’s every year into the village" ?

Useless article, picking up a soundbite from a TD and then dropping the point and regurgitating the contents of a generic M/N20 press release.

cgcsb

These concerns are easy to fix, just pedestrianise the bit of the main street between the post office and the Marian Park estate, easy pease, can be done for a few hundred euro, just put some flower planters out, put in some outdoor furniture. it might attract some actual business instead of just betting shops and petrol station. Maybe a café could open

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122343401#Comment_122343401

But but but….

What about the truck depot? The one in the very middle of Patrickswell? This is why we can't have nice things: a horrendously planned village (was there any planning at all?) simultaneously wants loads of traffic and no traffic.

Limerick74

https://www.limerickpost.ie/2024/08/09/proposal-to-toll-new-limerick-to-cork-road-road-counterproductive-says-limerick-td/

Limerick Post article

Hibernicis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122483730#Comment_122483730

“Also, having a toll will force some potential road users off the motorway onto regional and local roads which is not desirable and counterproductive,”

I wonder did Collins even read/understand the what is being proposed. The proposal for "A modest toll for each of the junctions and that will help minimise toll avoidance, going through villages and places like Charleville” is exactly the opposite to what he is talking about.

marno21

To be fair, they don't call it silly season for nothing

Pale Red

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122483730#Comment_122483730

Mr Collins making comments to appear relevant and "looking out" for constituents. The previous story about 8,000 hgvs going through Patrickwell was apparently based on a business in Crecora which has around 50 trucks a day calling each work day. The working assumption must've been that a significant percentage would be coming from the same direction, would retrace their journey when leaving, and never figure out that their sat nav is bringing them the long way round. I wonder how that would stand up to CBA (including additional danger of having junctions near each other).

Chris_5339762

Absolutely everyone will pay the toll for this one given the alternative of the old road, the Ballybeg Bends, Charleville etc. I'd guess this will be the "least toll dodged" scheme in the country.

65535

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122487396#Comment_122487396

I disagree - I'll be going 'cross country' via Mitchelstown and over via Hospital - Not in any hurry but it's the better route of the existing 2 routes.

As for tolls - it will be multiple tolls - and all of this between the 2 larges cities outside of Dubland

KrisW1001

It won't be multiple tolls. You will pay once, but how much you pay will be based on how much of the road you've used.

This is how all motorways work in Spain, France and Italy.

And once the motorway is there, I'd expect the bypassed towns to redo their streets to be friendlier to locals and visitors, and hostile to through traffic and ratrunners,

Kermit.de.frog

There should be no tolls at all. This is basic infrastructure enjoyed toll free in every other western country.

KrisW1001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122488000#Comment_122488000

You're more wrong than right there. Details here :

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toll_roads_in_Europe

That's for private cars. Drive a truck and you're paying tolls in far more places. Germany levies tolls on vehicles over 7.5 tonnes, even though cars are free.

Right now, we have only one actual road toll in this country (N7/N8). Every other toll is for the use of a bridge or tunnel, something that's normal everywhere in the western world.

rdhma

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122488079#Comment_122488079

Apart from the M7, the M3 and M4 are tolled where there are no significant bridges.

KrisW1001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122488288#Comment_122488288

You are right. I forgot M3, but I thought there was some sort of viduct on the M4 toll.

spacetweek

The vast majority of western countries charge tolls for using motorways. Some of the ones that don’t like Germany and Austria have started charging HGVs and cars may be next.

You definitely should have to pay tolls considering motorways can be thought of as a premium product in the transport sphere that you don’t need to use as the old road is a free alternative. The toll is to cover the high long-term maintenance cost of the roads. Maintenance is low right now because our motorways are all very new but this will greatly increase in future.

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122490494#Comment_122490494

Austria has the Vignette

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122488000#Comment_122488000

Is this a serious post?

serfboard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122493889#Comment_122493889

And I discovered, at the cost of a hefty fine, that Slovenia does too. As do Bulgaria, Czechia, Hungary, Moldova, Romania, Slovakia and Switzerland.

For those not familiar with the term, a Vignette is:

a form of road pricing imposed on vehicles, usually in addition to the compulsory road tax, based on a period of time the vehicle may use the road, instead of road tolls that are based on distance travelled.

Vignettes used to be small stickers attached to the screen, but many countries are replacing them with electronic ones now.

KrisW1001

For anyone planning a European trip...

https://www.tolls.eu/european-countries

... a friend was pulled over by Czech police for not having a vignette. When they explained that they hadn't realised it was needed (not true, they were chancing their arm), the cops told them to buy one at the next service area ... then followed them there to made sure they did. But, in fairness, the cops could have issued a fine, so a good result...

spacetweek

I got stung for a fine leaving Austria without a vignette. On the spot, I think it was €150.

SeanW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122489135#Comment_122489135

No, the M4 is as flat as it gets.

marno21

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41463547.html