M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

Wild Bill

Hogzy wrote: »

Cork has been on the short end of the stick over the last few years in regards upgrading. The M8, the Kinsale Road Roundabout and the Ballincollig bypass are the only major upgrades in the last 10yrs.

Sounds like a lot - relative to the population. This is a kind of "what did the Romans ever do for us?" attitude! :cool:

Amtmann

Wild Bill wrote: »

Sounds like a lot - relative to the population. This is a kind of "what did the Romans ever do for us?" attitude! :cool:

You are joking Wild Bill! The M8 can be excluded from Cork's list of goodies because it does not serve Cork City only; it also serves almost the entire southwest and much of the south.

The Kinsale Roundabout was a short scheme, as was the Ballincollig Bypass. Cork needs the M20, the M22 North Ring, improvements to Dunkettle and the N/M28 in addition to grade separation on the N25 near Midleton. Anyone familiar with the city, its commuter belt and the heavy industry and pharmaceuticals at Little Island and Ringaskiddy would not argue against these schemes, for they benefit the country as a whole, not just Cork. Cork isn't some parochial outpost: it's an extremely vibrant and strategic city loaded with economic potential.

runway16

Hogzy wrote: »

Trying to leave my bias hat at the door but i really do think Cork deserves a minister for transport from the area . IMO Cork has been on the short end of the stick over the last few years in regards upgrading. The M8, the Kinsale Road Roundabout and the Ballincollig bypass are the only major upgrades in the last 10yrs.

Yes, maybe in the last 10 years, because Prior to that, Cork got quite a bit of infrastructure such as the N25, the Southern Ring Road, N27 improvements etc etc. Name me another City in Ireland apart from Dublin that has had so much investment in Roads?

I know its the fashion down in Cork to always feel hard done by from those bastards in Dublin, but the facts dont really stack up! ;-)

I've always been very impressed by the road network in Cork.

That said, the M20 sorely needs to happen, and the N22 and N25 need further upgrade beyond the current dual carriageway sections.

corktina

LIMERICK for one...completley bypassed by motorway and a tunnel to the North as well.

L1011

corktina wrote: »

LIMERICK for one...completley bypassed by motorway and a tunnel to the North as well.

Cork doesn't have to pay for its tunnel though

The tunnel, East Cork Parkway, etc, added up to "enough" to let the NRA ignore Cork for quite a while.

Hogzy

MYOB wrote: »

Cork doesn't have to pay for its tunnel though

That is because it was nearly fully funded by the EU and the EU will not allow the NRA put a toll on something the NRA hasnt funded. Its fair enough really.

Im not anti Dublin in any sense but if anyone here had to commute from The south of Cork to the east any morning you would see what BADLY needs to be upgraded. At the end of the day the Cork Metro area is one third the size of the Dublin Metro area. No way has it seen one third of the investment.

Bandon Road Roundabout upgrade
Sarsfield Road Roundabout upgrade
M20
M22 North Ring
Dunkettle Road Roundabout
M28 to the Port

All these have been stamped as vital infrastructure that Cork Needs. I think we could go without the M22 tbh for another while but the others need to be done ASAP.

Teddy455

Name me another City in Ireland apart from Dublin that has had so much investment in Roads?

Waterford, Limerick.

Amtmann

Had lots to do today and I forgot to get on to ABP about the planning decision. On a related note, there was a fatality on the N20 today on the narrow section north of Charleville. A toddler was killed, RIP.

runway16

Waterford and Limerick? You are joking right?

Cork had upgrades LONG before Limerick or Waterford had them, and you find reason to complain about that??

Limerick is actually of more strategic importance on the national road network as it is a crossing point for routes from Cork, Waterford etc to Galway and points North, as well from Kerry to Dublin.

Lads, come on! Why is that Cork always has to feel in someway hard done by?

Amtmann

runway16 wrote: »

Lads, come on! Why is that Cork always has to feel in someway hard done by?

I don't think anyone is saying Cork has been "hard done by" particularly, but it has suffered from under-investment in road infrastructure in my view. The JLT was no gift. It was unbelievably essential, far moreso than the Limerick Tunnel (which is NOT to say that the Limerick Tunnel wasn't required either). As I see it, Cork itself is twice as large as Limerick and Galway, has a far larger population in a 40km radius than either of those cities, has a thriving industrial and pharmaceutical base, an airport, and a deepwater port. Its south ring is choked with three mega bottlenecks, the link road (i.e. the N28) to the port and pharmaceutical core is eighteenth-century, desperately over capacity and lethal, while connections between hubs on the north of the city are extremely poor. The dual carriageway to Midleton carries AADT of approximately 50,000 and has numerous private houses along it and gaps in the median. These all need massive upgrades. That's just a fact as I see it, no begrudgery involved.

runway16

I Absolutely am not saying that Cork roads dont still need upgrading - but so do roads everywhere. It isnt plain sailing in Limerick or Waterford either. All Waterford has is the M9 and a bypass. Nothing else.

Sure, Limerick has a route to Galway and Dublin, but the N20 corridor, and the N24 are still dire.

Cork has done very well from the road building programme and received major upgrades long before most other cities (and rightly so given it is the 3rd largest city on the Island).

I've always found driving in and around Cork quite a pleasure - good roads like Dublin, just with comfortably less traffic!

Sure, you need a bit more investment, but to suggest that Cork is somehow "left behind" really smacks of the "People's republic" attitude.

Sorry, thats just how an outsider sees it. No offence intended.

Corcaigh abu! ;-)

Amtmann

Well I'm not a Cork person as it happens, though I did live there for six years and would like to own a house there some day if I'm honest.

I am not familiar with Waterford's particular traffic issues, but I do not rate it as a city of major national economic importance. It's too small (and no, that's not a petty dig at Waterford, so please, people, don't harangue me over that). I am a passionate advocate of the Galway outer bypass and a fully dualled N24.

But were I the Minister for Transport, and if the Department of Finance told me only ten road schemes could get built within the next 10 years, I would definitely include the M20, the N28, the N22 North Ring and the N8/N25 Dunkettle Interchange Upgrade in the list. So that would be me giving 40% of all road investment in the next decade to Cork, and I would defend that decision to anyone (I'd also include the Galway Bypass and the N24 Pallasgreen-Cahir scheme, btw).

runway16

Tremelo wrote: »

Well I'm not a Cork person as it happens, though I did live there for six years and would like to own a house there some day if I'm honest.

I am not familiar with Waterford's particular traffic issues, but I do not rate it as a city of major national economic importance. It's too small (and no, that's not a petty dig at Waterford, so please, people, don't harangue me over that). I am a passionate advocate of the Galway outer bypass and a fully dualled N24.

But were I the Minister for Transport, and if the Department of Finance told me only ten road schemes could get built within the next 10 years, I would definitely include the M20, the N28, the N22 North Ring and the N8/N25 Dunkettle Interchange Upgrade in the list. So that would be me giving 40% of all road investment in the next decade to Cork, and I would defend that decision to anyone (I'd also include the Galway Bypass and the N24 Pallasgreen-Cahir scheme, btw).

I would include all the said schemes as well. N28 and Dunkettle interchange arent very big schemes and should be progressed anyway.

M20 is a no brainer and if you build the M20, you need the North Ring too. It just makes sense.

corktina

a motorway betwen city #2 and city #3 should have been built long ago. Yes, a no brainer.

Also a no brainer is linked replacement for the chronic North Ring.

Limerick has its bypasses and tunnel which were badly needed.
Waterford (a tiny place) has a massive bridge, bypass and motorway plus the very long relief road that eventually (6okm/h) ends up at WRH.
Even Galway (even smaller) has quite a decent approach road from the south and east which goes more or less past the city to Salthill et al

Drive into Cork from the North and want to go to the Airport or CUH and you have to go onto the old suburban road system to do it.

I dont think its a case of Cork begrudging, I think its the other way around...lots of "foreigners" dont want Cork to get their share.

dubhthach

corktina wrote: »

a motorway betwen city #2 and city #3 should have been built long ago. Yes, a no brainer.

Also a no brainer is linked replacement for the chronic North Ring.

Limerick has its bypasses and tunnel which were badly needed.
Waterford (a tiny place) has a massive bridge, bypass and motorway plus the very long relief road that eventually (6okm/h) ends up at WRH.
Even Galway (even smaller) has quite a decent approach road from the south and east which goes more or less past the city to Salthill et al

Drive into Cork from the North and want to go to the Airport or CUH and you have to go onto the old suburban road system to do it.

I dont think its a case of Cork begrudging, I think its the other way around...lots of "foreigners" dont want Cork to get their share.

I have to correct you on Galway been "even smaller" then waterford. Plus been from Salthill I should point out we've been part of the city (urban boundary) since the 1930's

Personally as someone who use to go to Cork a fair bit with the Taekwondo club I'm all in favour of the M20 been built as soon as possible. Likewise for the north ring. In my opinion Cork is the most viable counterpoint to Dublin in the country. Ṗersonally I think providing good access to Cork is a win-win situation for both Limerick and Galway.

Chris_5339762

The M20 should absolutely be built as soon as possible. However, much as it pains me to push it down the list, if there was a choice between the **entire** M20 and the Galway Bypass (in full), I'd build the latter and delay the M20 by a few years.

corktina

My apologies to Galway. Waterford must be a lot smaller than I thought:D

and to Salthill (although tecnnically i already did that as its part of Galway.)

You live and learn:D

betistuc

Tremelo, who is this Carrigaline man you refer to?

I hope he succeeds because the alternative could be Labours Joe Costello, who appears to be an enemy of road construction and would cancel this and other projects if he gets the chance(see tremelo's post no 99 on the A5 thread) Indeed Labour are the party of public transport and the prospect of more road building is appaling to them.

Interrogate any labour hopeful canvassing in your area about their support for the ARC(of which this project is part of)

Be afraid boys and wish for a huge FG majority!

Amtmann

betistuc wrote: »

Tremelo, who is this Carrigaline man you refer to?

Simon Coveney. In an email to him several months ago I mentioned a few schemes, asking if he would commit to delivering them. Having only just received the transport brief a week or two previously, he would not promise anything but had this to say:

What I will say, however, is that I recognise the importance of all of the specific infrastructure projects that you have outlined, in particular the Cork – Limerick road as being essential elements of our road infrastructure that need completion. I think the one you haven’t mentioned is the N28 between Ringaskiddy and Cork city, which I think is also of national significance in terms of the relocation of the Port of Cork but also the need to service the very busy pharmaceutical campus in the Ringaskiddy area.

littlemac1980

Corkman paper have a front page report on the shelving of the M20 Scheme.

The report suggests that construction won't begin on the project within the next 4 years at least.

Oh well, anyone travelling Limerick to Cork Road, don't sell the rally-car just yet!!

KerranJast

littlemac1980 wrote: »

Corkman paper have a front page report on the shelving of the M20 Scheme.

The report suggests that construction won't begin on the project within the next 4 years at least.

Oh well, anyone travelling Limerick to Cork Road, don't sell the rally-car just yet!!

It was expected alright. We've bigger problems right now with talks of Sovereign Default and the like :eek:

TBH I've adjusted my driving times to head back to Limerick or back. I leave i til after dark. It's much quieter and you don't get screwed in Charleville.

Chris_5339762

I wouldnt use the word 'shelved', it was common knowledge that the M20 south is planned to start in 2015, with M20 north in 2018, but not until M20 south was done.

That was the most recent idea anyway, who knows if it will now.

runway16

corktina wrote: »

a motorway betwen city #2 and city #3 should have been built long ago. Yes, a no brainer.

Also a no brainer is linked replacement for the chronic North Ring.

Limerick has its bypasses and tunnel which were badly needed.
Waterford (a tiny place) has a massive bridge, bypass and motorway plus the very long relief road that eventually (6okm/h) ends up at WRH.
Even Galway (even smaller) has quite a decent approach road from the south and east which goes more or less past the city to Salthill et al

Drive into Cork from the North and want to go to the Airport or CUH and you have to go onto the old suburban road system to do it.

I dont think its a case of Cork begrudging, I think its the other way around...lots of "foreigners" dont want Cork to get their share.

So because one approach to Cork is piss poor..... OK!

That remark about "Foreigners" not wanting to see Cork get its fair share just goes the prove your attitude, one which is typical of many in Cork it seems. You lot are the only true Irish, you are so downtrodden, yadda yadda yadda.

You just totally proved my point really.

Why in gods name would anyone "not want to see Cork gets its fair share"???

Why do some of you seem to think all of Ireland is somehow out to get you, has held you back, etc etc?

Thats a small town, second city syndrome mindset that really is not befitting of the fine city that Cork is.

betistuc

Tremelo, have you been onto ABP about the planning decision yet?

Amtmann

I'm sorry, I keep forgetting. In the past I just called 01-8588100 and asked. The office closes at 5.30pm

Amtmann

Decision postponed until 29 April now :rolleyes:

Hogzy

Another accident on the N20 today. Caused SERIOUS tailbacks near Waterloo. The amount of crashes happening on this road is getting ridiculous.

-Corkie-

Tremelo wrote: »

Decision postponed until 29 April now :rolleyes:

Short article in The Corkman this week. It dont look like good news..:mad:

http://www.corkman.ie/premium/news/m20-motorway-parked-2534129.html#premiumcontent

martiin

There is nice video on youtube about motorways in Poland. I think at the end is nice explanation for RSA why they should build that motorway ASAP (look 4:20 min)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLhgsVpTjww

and another video about chineese companies building roads in PL. They much cheaper than local contractors but quality is the big question. We'll see in future

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxOQ3Dw72E8

PS Sorry guys for my english

Chris_5339762

Love the fact that the road at the very end of the clip, which presumably the motorway is replacing, is far better than this nonsense which describes much of the current N20.