M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

rounders

spacetweek wrote: »

Cant find a recent route options map on that site - last one seems to be from May 2020. Can you guide me please?
I already have a link to the options on pinpointcloud.co.uk

Once you're on corklimerick.ie there is a button in the centre of the screen for Public Consultation. That will bring you into a interactive room. The map is on the table

This is a more direct link, https://www.pinpointcloud.co.uk/nm20virtualconsultation/

Isambard

Flesh Gorden wrote: »

I find it a busy route with the HGVs going down to the Kepak factory, or the HGVs coming off the motorway to Tarrant in Sarsfield Court. Also Prompto Dispatch who are about 1Km off that road. All of which is traffic that could easily block up the main street, as is seen when the Centra is getting a delivery.

so it's an odd decision someone made to re-open it

Cork Trucker

Flesh Gorden wrote: »

I find it a busy route with the HGVs going down to the Kepak factory, or the HGVs coming off the motorway to Tarrant in Sarsfield Court. Also Prompto Dispatch who are about 1Km off that road. All of which is traffic that could easily block up the main street, as is seen when the Centra is getting a delivery.

I worked for Prompto a few years ago, they keep that Centra in business alone. Prompto themselves are next to CHEP and the go kart track, the road is too narrow for the HGV traffic it accommodates, how Delea got permission to build there i don't understand, but that was around 2006.

Reputable Rog

Bass Reeves wrote: »

All because Tipp Co Council who did the by pass refused to do as requested by the NRA

It was the other way around, the then Tipp NR wanted a Motorway bypass, the NRA decided otherwise.

hans aus dtschl

Isambard wrote: »

so it's an odd decision someone made to re-open it

It is useful for local traffic between (for instance) Glenville and Bartlemy.
From what I remember the closure was an short-lived thing, lasting only a few months or so, to wean people off the old route, and it was reopened with no publicity whatsoever, once traffic levels had dropped and people had migrated to the motorway. It's been in its current configuration for a decade or so. But it's important to note that there's still traffic lights in the town now, so it is slower for any "through" traffic than the Eastern "loop" road.

I would personally like to see more speed reduction measures on the remaining old Cork - Dublin road (R639), particularly south of Watergrasshill as a minority of toll (and camera) dodgers still use it at high speeds.

danoriordan1402

Sorry for the dim question, from the interactive map - I am living right in the middle of the green blob just outside Blarney pretty much where the existing road runs.
Is said green blob just indicating the Phase 2 study area or something more sinister :eek:

rounders

danoriordan1402 wrote: »

Sorry for the dim question, from the interactive map - I am living right in the middle of the green blob just outside Blarney pretty much where the existing road runs.
Is said green blob just indicating the Phase 2 study area or something more sinister :eek:

The green line is one of two route options being considered. I hope/expected that it will go the green route. It will be somewhere in the green route, not all the width of the green route. In some places it will but not the whole way along

Isambard

there can be little doubt if it follows the green blob, it will be on the existing line, upgraded at junctions or bridged. Where will the alternative road run though, for non-motorway traffic? will it be built in parallel or will traffic be condemned to the old road? I seem to recall the last time round a non-motorway road was proposed next to the motorway, that may have been the bit north of Rathduff though.

rounders

Isambard wrote: »

there can be little doubt if it follows the green blob, it will be on the existing line, upgraded at junctions or bridged. Where will the alternative road run though, for non-motorway traffic? will it be built in parallel or will traffic be condemned to the old road? I seem to recall the last time round a non-motorway road was proposed next to the motorway, that may have been the bit north of Rathduff though.

I suspect they will try to use the old mallow road as much as possible for the alternative route

Isambard

rounders wrote: »

I suspect they will try to use the old mallow road as much as possible for the alternative route

god help us

Pete_Cavan

Isambard wrote: »

god help us

God help who? The handful of people who will be excluded from using the motorway? That must be a negligible amount of traffic.

BelfastVanMan

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

God help who? The handful of people who will be excluded from using the motorway? That must be a negligible amount of traffic.

If there's a motorway closure, then it will be chaos.

Pete_Cavan

BelfastVanMan wrote: »

If there's a motorway closure, then it will be chaos.

That will be the case anyway.

Isambard

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

That will be the case anyway.

have you driven the old road? It's not fir for purpose and would need a total rebuild to bring it up to standard

Isambard

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

God help who? The handful of people who will be excluded from using the motorway? That must be a negligible amount of traffic.

it will be the main drag I suspect whilst the motorway is built. So that will be everyone using that corridor for an extended period

Pete_Cavan

Isambard wrote: »

it will be the main drag I suspect whilst the motorway is built. So that will be everyone using that corridor for an extended period

I assume with the online upgrade, one lane in each direction will be provided within the existing road space with traffic management. The motorway will be built on and around it plus additional landtake. I can't see closing the existing road entirely for the duration being accepted. The majority of the new road will be built offline.

marno21

Correct me if I’m wrong but most of the new Mallow Road, especially south of Rathduff, is several metres wider than the N7 Nenagh bypass was. Therefore they could manage 2 coned 50km/h lanes in either direction with works taking place on the remaining cross section of carriageway.

Pete_Cavan

Isambard wrote: »

have you driven the old road? It's not fir for purpose and would need a total rebuild to bring it up to standard

What standard would the old road have to be brought up to anyway? Would it really have to handle much more traffic if a motorway was in place?

Even if a section of motorway had to be closed for some reason, it would most likely be in one direction only and traffic would be diverted off at one junction and back on at the next. The chances of a stretch of motorway spanning multiple junctions closing are incredibly slim.

marno21

The M20 routing from 2009 from Mourneabbey past Rathduff to Blarney can be followed here:

http://web.archive.org/web/20120307192949/https://www.corkrdo.ie/files/M20_Cork_Limerick_Motorway%20Scheme_Preliminary%20Design_June_2009/handout_01_02.pdf

I am not sure if any corrections were made to this before the ABP submission, if there were please correct me.

rounders

marno21 wrote: »

The M20 routing from 2009 from Mourneabbey past Rathduff to Blarney can be followed here:

http://web.archive.org/web/20120307192949/https://www.corkrdo.ie/files/M20_Cork_Limerick_Motorway%20Scheme_Preliminary%20Design_June_2009/handout_01_02.pdf

I am not sure if any corrections were made to this before the ABP submission, if there were please correct me.

The route from 2010 is actually on the consultation map. It's a marked as a black and white line. It essentially follows the green line

marno21

rounders wrote: »

The route from 2010 is actually on the consultation map. It's a marked as a black and white line. It essentially follows the green line

Apologies - I should have been clear that my link includes detail on side roads and how the existing local roads that front onto the N20 will be treated.

Bass Reeves

Isambard wrote: »

it will be the main drag I suspect whilst the motorway is built. So that will be everyone using that corridor for an extended period

You will have virtually no one using it after the motorway is complete. I have driven on Birdhill to Nenagh a few time, yes I know it a better road but you would be the only car in either direction for miles. It the same with the old Nenagh to Roscrea and on to Borris an Ossary and I have driven Ennis to Fort on the old road once

When you remove 80%+ if the traffic ( and a motorway will remove over 90%of it) these roads are liveable with in there present condition. Even if you gets stuck behind a slow car unless you are on the bendy bit you will be able to pass out as no traffic will be coming in the opposite direction a lot of the time

Isambard

Bass Reeves wrote: »

You will have virtually no one using it after the motorway is complete. I have driven on Birdhill to Nenagh a few time, yes I know it a better road but you would be the only car in either direction for miles. It the same with the old Nenagh to Roscrea and on to Borris an Ossary and I have driven Ennis to Fort on the old road once

When you remove 80%+ if the traffic ( and a motorway will remove over 90%of it) these roads are liveable with in there present condition. Even if you gets stuck behind a slow car unless you are on the bendy bit you will be able to pass out as no traffic will be coming in the opposite direction a lot of the time

I'm really talking about during construction. It's a dreadful road if it's used for diversions, people forget, and there's much more traffic now even in ten years or so. Keeping the Rathduff to Blarney section open during works will be hell on wheels too.

Chris_5339762

Online upgrades are a pain and they take time, but internationally there really is plenty of precedent for it. It'll be manky, but it'll be ok.

Pete_Cavan

While it may be hell, people will just have to put up with the short term pain of the online upgrade for the huge long term gain. Building a new road to the side to take the traffic before starting online works is not practical. Such a new road would only be SC and likely 80km/h and not be suitable for the volumes of traffic anyway so while it may be a bit better, it wouldn't be by much.

The online upgrade will likely put local traffic currently using only part of the N20 off. They will use other roads which, while poorer standard, are moving. They may also be able to get some of the other non-N20 road changes put in place before starting online to give it some relief.

Isambard

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

While it may be hell, people will just have to put up with the short term pain of the online upgrade for the huge long term gain. Building a new road to the side to take the traffic before starting online works is not practical. Such a new road would only be SC and likely 80km/h and not be suitable for the volumes of traffic anyway so while it may be a bit better, it wouldn't be by much.

The online upgrade will likely put local traffic currently using only part of the N20 off. They will use other roads which, while poorer standard, are moving. They may also be able to get some of the other non-N20 road changes put in place before starting online to give it some relief.

short term is all I have, I'll be probably too old to drive by the time it's done. All pain, no gain. :-(

cjpm

For the section from Burnfort to Rathduff it was proposed in 2010 to build a small parallel road for local traffic. This was to be built first so that half of the N20 traffic could be ran on it while the online upgrade was being built.

Would certainly make a lot of sense....

spacetweek

I went to the M20 info and discussion session hosted by Limerick TD Kieran O'Donnell. Was informative and detailed. Wrote about it on my website.

steeler j

Something on a newspaper about a group near croom opposed to the plumb and teal route , personally I don't think them routes will be picked

un5byh7sqpd2x0

danoriordan1402 wrote: »

Sorry for the dim question, from the interactive map - I am living right in the middle of the green blob just outside Blarney pretty much where the existing road runs.
Is said green blob just indicating the Phase 2 study area or something more sinister :eek:

Your house will probably be levelled and if so you’ll get a few bob for the inconvenience.