job opportunities with computer science degree

pog it

I know everyone is saying there are alot of staff shortages in the IT sector and I was wondering how true is this? Also, just what types of jobs can a graduate expect to get then?

DublinWriter

pog it wrote: »

I know everyone is saying there are alot of staff shortages in the IT sector and I was wondering how true is this? Also, just what types of jobs can a graduate expect to get then?

If by 'everyone' you mean the colleges themselves then yes, there is a staff-shortage.

Look behind the curtain and you'll find that they are putting these 'rumours' out themselves to save their own facilities post dot-com boom - the numbers of people taking IT degrees have been plummeting in the past seven years in Ireland.

Here's how it works: if you want to be a PM suit working for one of the big-four, then do a degree, any degree in any discipline, get a first and get in on the milk-round.

If you want to be a programmer, or work in a technical track, then having a degree with no experience will be about as useful and welcome as a fart in a spacesuit. It's very much akin to the dozens of people you see on boards.ie with degrees in journalism wondering why they can't get a job.

IT is a broad church and it all depends on where you want to go and where your strengths are.

That said, a third level education is never wasted, but just be very careful if you think it will be a gateway into an I.T. career.

damnyanks

Most colleges do a co-op these days - this really is what decides what you will or will not do. A computer science degree is great. Although I'd guess its more useful in a technology company assuming you are working on their core service.

If its not a tech company you're looking at then dont do computer science as you will end up in their sprawling IT department which is run by a giant chimp in a suit.

jetski

DublinWriter wrote: »

It's very much akin to the dozens of people you see on boards.ie with degrees in journalism wondering why they can't get a job.

hmmm.... could you be one of those i wonder

the_syco

pog it wrote: »

I know everyone is saying there are alot of staff shortages in the IT sector

Yes. There are shortages of people with 10 years experience of Vista. No, I'm serious: this is the type of bullsh|t that you'll see on some job-sites. Asking for 5 years experience of something that came out 4 days ago.

Overall, most jobs that you see with high jobs specs will be duplicated by the same company in different sites, and then duplicated more by different recruitment companies offering the same jobs...

magicwand

DublinWriter wrote: »

If by 'everyone' you mean the colleges themselves then yes, there is a staff-shortage.

Look behind the curtain and you'll find that they are putting these 'rumours' out themselves to save their own facilities post dot-com boom - the numbers of people taking IT degrees have been plummeting in the past seven years in Ireland.

Here's how it works: if you want to be a PM suit working for one of the big-four, then do a degree, any degree in any discipline, get a first and get in on the milk-round.

If you want to be a programmer, or work in a technical track, then having a degree with no experience will be about as useful and welcome as a fart in a spacesuit. It's very much akin to the dozens of people you see on boards.ie with degrees in journalism wondering why they can't get a job.

IT is a broad church and it all depends on where you want to go and where your strengths are.

That said, a third level education is never wasted, but just be very careful if you think it will be a gateway into an I.T. career.

Will the milkrounds take firsts only?

AARRRGH

There are still plenty of jobs - if you have the right skills.

If I were you I'd be more concerned with whether or not you like IT. I work with loads of people who dislike IT, but feel trapped.

Personally I like it, and as a result I'll always do OK, as I read IT books and in general am fairly positive about my job.

But to answer your question, there are plenty of different types of jobs, from support to software testing to development to business analyst to manager.

If I were you, starting off on my career, I'd do small programming and design jobs on scriptlance.com to get some sort of experience for my CV.

damnyanks

magicwand wrote: »

Will the milkrounds take firsts only?

2.i and above.

Some will let you away with a 2.ii as long as you have good experience or a MSc

Going along with DublinWriter: In my experience a Computer Science degree is worthless. If you get a first and get to do some work at the college, it's alright. Are you prepared to gamble four years of your life on getting the first, when the price of not getting it is quite high? This is the risk of going to college that your guidance counsellor won't mention.

AARRRGH

MontgomeryClift wrote: »

Going along with DublinWriter: In my experience a Computer Science degree is worthless. If you get a first and get to do some work at the college, it's alright. Are you prepared to gamble four years of your life on getting the first, when the price of not getting it is quite high? This is the risk of going to college that your guidance counsellor won't mention.

Do you have a computer science degree?

My education, although not particularly practical or industry relevant, was completely worth it.

colly10

You should have no problem getting a job with a CS degree. I have one and had no problem getting a job (even though people were saying it was a tough time to get one)
Noone in my course had a problem either. It's a broad area though and getting the degree in itself won't get you a good job. It'll get you in the door of something and then it's all down to what area you get into/how hard your willing to work/how good you are at the job naturally.
Some IT related jobs will help you to pick up knowlege of other professions as well (eg if you spend all your time working on life/pensions software then you pick up good knowlege of what working in that area involves too which can be usefull if you want to move on or you may decide to stick to an IT job in that area etc..)
If your interested in working in the area I wouldn't be put off by people saying theres a lack of opportunity

the_syco

colly10 wrote: »

It'll get you in the door of something and then it's all down to what area you get into/how hard your willing to work/how good you are at the job naturally.

Agreed. There's at least one college in Dublin that you need a degree to be full-time tech support in it, but most of the time in jobs, it'll get your foot in the door. Saying that, if you get good experience whilst doing computer science, it'll help no end. But unless you're getting 1.1 marks, you'll need to know someone who knows someone to get into some jobs that will give you good experience. Canvassing will disqualify... unless your college will pay the college some of your wage

DublinWriter

AARRRGH wrote: »

Do you have a computer science degree?

Yes, and an MSc in I.T. Management, both from TCD.

I got more out of my qualifications on a personal than professional level. Such qualifications aren't 'keys to the kingdom', but will help you more than you know after you successfully blag your way into I.T.

Again, I'd have to stress the importance of knowing where you want to go within the industry - either technical or business. It's very easy to get stuck in a rut and end up burning out after ten years.

Oshare Bones

Don't believe the media and colleges about the number of vacancies, I was reading the independent last week and apparently there are 10,000 vacant IT positions in Ireland. LOL! I'd say the figure realistically is closer to 1,000 or probably less. I graduated from an 4 year IT degree in June and got a 2.2 and finding it impossible to get any sort of work. Must have applied to about 7 companies at this stage. The company I did my work placement in have outsourced the development work to china. If anyone knows some IT company looking for graduates please let me know.

kippy

Oshare Bones wrote: »

Don't believe the media and colleges about the number of vacancies, I was reading the independent last week and apparently there are 10,000 vacant IT positions in Ireland. LOL! I'd say the figure realistically is closer to 1,000 or probably less. I graduated from an 4 year IT degree in June and got a 2.2 and finding it impossible to get any sort of work. Must have applied to about 7 companies at this stage. The company I did my work placement in have outsourced the development work to china. If anyone knows some IT company looking for graduates please let me know.

HP in clonskeagh (through CPL) usually end up taking grads for their helpdesks. Not sure if they still do.
Kippy

Oshare Bones

kippy wrote: »

HP in clonskeagh (through CPL) usually end up taking grads for their helpdesks. Not sure if they still do.
Kippy

Thanks I haven't applied there yet.

dazberry

Oshare Bones wrote: »

Don't believe the media and colleges about the number of vacancies, I was reading the independent last week and apparently there are 10,000 vacant IT positions in Ireland. LOL! I'd say the figure realistically is closer to 1,000 or probably less.

The issue really isn't to do with the numbers - its to do with the pool of skills and levels of experience. I would bet that the majority of companies that are whining about the so called skills shortage aren't for instance taking graduates or cross-training people with compatible skillsets to the level that they want. As a result there isn't enough of a churn to bring staff up thru' the industry and not enough training/flexibility to keep staff in the industry.

It would be like the CIF lobbying the government to get more first time buyers into the housing market but at the same time mostly building million euro houses that FTBs can't afford. In essence the career ladder in IT is too fragile for a sustainable industry - its extremely short-sighted and has been for a long time.

D.

irlrobins

Oshare Bones wrote: »

Thanks I haven't applied there yet.

I would only apply for those sort of positions as a last resort. Any job is better than doing first line tech support imo.

cronos

irlrobins wrote: »

I would only apply for those sort of positions as a last resort. Any job is better than doing first line tech support imo.

I totally agree. Try and find a start up IT company and just apply even if they dont have any jobs up on their site. They may just happen to think of one when you apply.

DublinWriter

kippy wrote: »

HP in clonskeagh (through CPL) usually end up taking grads for their helpdesks. Not sure if they still do.
Kippy

Avoid. Avoid. Avoid.

I know of another agency (who will remain nameless) that staffed an entire government department helpdesk with fresh CS grads from a third level institution (who will also remain nameless).

Three years later, most are still there. A few 'lucky' ones made it to second-level support, i.e. replacing busted memory and graphics cards on PC and recovering corrupt MS Word files.

That CS grads are doing first-level helpdesk support speaks volumes about the real state of actual 'skills-shortage'.

kippy

In response to last few posts.....
I couldnt agree more with you all, but its experience and (as far as I am aware) still fairly easy to get. Anyone still there after more than two years hasnt tried hard enough to get out or they're aiming too high for their skill set.
Kippy

MIN2511

I think QA is a relatively easy way to get into the IT world, but then again it all depends on your strongest qualities....

What part of IT interests you more?

irlrobins

kippy wrote: »

I couldnt agree more with you all, but its experience

But would it be relevant experience, that's the key factor.

colly10

Agree with a few of the last posts, I would not get involved with working on a help desk. It's definitely something that would try my patients, there are easier degrees to get that one in CS, it is just not worth it to get a degree to spend 2 years on a help desk. Id rather skip college and go straight into a trade than go this route (or just get a job in something else)

@Oshare Bones - You've applied to a few but try improve the CV and don't give up. Your better off taking a year out than starting at the bottom of a bad job so your not wasting time. Its not all about whether you get a first or not, I know people who bet me but ended up in worse jobs and people who I bet that run the show. A good CV and alot of confidence (without being cocky) in interview can go a long way

kippy

irlrobins wrote: »

But would it be relevant experience, that's the key factor.

The OP hasnt actually mentioned exactly what side of IT they want to get into.
If you want to get into sys admin,second,third level support, helpdesk management, IT management, consultancy in sys admin and configuration it is the first step on the ladder and highly important experience.
In fairness, this real world experience is very useful in all areas of IT, just hard to sometimes link it into exactly the part of IT you are involved in.
The majority of my (IT) mates, started out in similiar work about 6 years ago. A good number of them have progressed through the various jobs and companies after spending a couple of years there and managed to get themselves MS/Cisco/linux certs while doing so. Most are happy out with what they do now and appreciate a good job when it comes their way.
I also know a couple of programmers who after their degree (due to lack of relevent work) started out in this type of thing.
Half the problem with those that get out of college with a degree is that they seriously overrate what roles they can get with that degree. I blame the colleges for filling them with nonsense about how great their paper is.
Kippy.

Oshare Bones

Thanks for the replies everyone. A lot to consider. I would take anything at this stage even a technical or customer support role. Is my 2.2 degree result putting employers off?

cronos

Oshare Bones wrote: »

Thanks for the replies everyone. A lot to consider. I would take anything at this stage even a technical or customer support role. Is my 2.2 degree result putting employers off?

Have you any experience from internships or cooperative education within your university?

MIN2511

Why do you put your grade on your CV?

No need! You have a degree, you are called for an interview and you defend yourself!

Also, what was your FYP(Final Year Project) about? You should include brief details of that in your CV

irlrobins

MIN2511 wrote: »

Why do you put your grade on your CV?

No need! You have a degree, you are called for an interview and you defend yourself!

I wouldn't agree with this statement. Many employers would state in the job spec that applicants must hold at least a 2.1 honours degree.

In fact if someone failed to state their grade in their application/CV it would raise alarms bells with me. It would lead me to believe they had something to hid.

AARRRGH

Oshare Bones wrote: »

Is my 2.2 degree result putting employers off?

It would put me off, sorry.

You could do a part-time masters at night - you'll get a masters and (I'm assuming) you'll be able to override your 2.2 with a nice 2.1 or first.

MIN2511

irlrobins wrote: »

I wouldn't agree with this statement. Many employers would state in the job spec that applicants must hold at least a 2.1 honours degree.

In fact if someone failed to state their grade in their application/CV it would raise alarms bells with me. It would lead me to believe they had something to hid.

I know two people who were called for an interview in a company for the same role, one had a First and the other a 2.2 and guess who they employed?

There is a whole lot more than a degree! There are programmers with no college degree earning loads of money.

To say it would put you off the CV is a bit biased don't you think?

AARRRGH

MIN2511 wrote: »

I know two people who were called for an interview in a company for the same role, one had a First and the other a 2.2 and guess who they employed?

There is a whole lot more than a degree! There are programmers with no college degree earning loads of money.

To say it would put you off the CV is a bit biased don't you think?

I agree the interview is where you can sell yourself, but someone with a poor degree makes me think "lazy" or "didn't take college seriously" or "doesn't have an aptitude for this subject".

Basically I would see them as a risk.

MIN2511

AARRRGH wrote: »

I agree the interview is where you can sell yourself, but someone with a poor degree makes me think "lazy" or "didn't take college seriously" or "doesn't have an aptitude for this subject".

Basically I would see them as a risk.

Tbh i don't think exams prove how hardworking a person is, but we'll leave that for anothers days conversation

AARRRGH

MIN2511 wrote: »

Tbh i don't think exams prove how hardworking a person is, but we'll leave that for anothers days conversation

I disagree! I think it's fairly hard to get a 2.2 - getting a 2.1 and a first is easy enough.

cronos

AARRRGH wrote: »

I disagree! I think it's fairly hard to get a 2.2 - getting a 2.1 and a first is easy enough.

Why are we treating a 2.2 degree like its a third. If your right at the top end of a 2.2 degree then you were getting a B average in uni which is quiet good. Their is a massive difference between a 2.2 and a third. I know no one here has actually mentioned a third however I dont agree that a 2.2 can be called a bad degree a third could be though IMO.

AARRRGH

cronos wrote: »

If your right at the top end of a 2.2 degree then you were getting a B average in uni which is quiet good.

I thought a 2.2 was a low C?

cronos

AARRRGH wrote: »

I thought a 2.2 was a low C?

I dont think you should make jokes about a type of degree if you dont understand what the grade means.

A low C is a third not a 2.2

However a 2.2 is a wide enough class so at the top end of a 2.2 its a low or middle B. (middle B is prob a low 2.1 though) At the bottom end of the 2.2 it is a high C.

At least that is how it was in my University. A person who just misses out on a 2.1 can not be judged the same as someone who just made a 2.2 in my opinion. These classifications are far to wide. We really should be using QCA or as the americans call it GPA. That way you dont have these problems.

AARRRGH

cronos wrote: »

I dont think you should make jokes about a type of degree if you dont understand what the grade means.

No need to be smart.

In my college a first is above 70% and a 2.1 is above 60%. Therefore to get a 2.2 or a third, we're talking 40 - 59%.

cronos

AARRRGH wrote: »

I agree the interview is where you can sell yourself, but someone with a poor degree makes me think "lazy" or "didn't take college seriously" or "doesn't have an aptitude for this subject".

Basically I would see them as a risk.

Sorry for being smart but I found the quoted post quite offensive.

It dosent take into account work experience from internships or cooperative education.

AARRRGH

cronos wrote: »

Sorry for being smart but I found the quoted post quite offensive.

It dosent take into account work experience from internships or cooperative education.

Well, from my experience the people who got a poor grade (2.2 or third) either didn't take college very seriously, were lazy, or weren't suited to the subject.

When employing someone I try to take as little risk as possible - there are a lot of dud employees out there.

Of course, 100%, I know there are some amazing employees who never went to college or who messed up their degree.

MIN2511

cronos wrote: »

Sorry for being smart but I found the quoted post quite offensive.

It dosent take into account work experience from internships or cooperative education.

My work experience i got an A and my marks where 97 as far as i remember but in college... Dunno never really bothered much... there was always something happening: work, college, family etc

AARRRGH wrote: »

Well, from my experience the people who got a poor grade (2.2 or third) either didn't take college very seriously, were lazy, or weren't suited to the subject.

When employing someone I try to take as little risk as possible - there are a lot of dud employees out there.

Of course, 100%, I know there are some amazing employees who never went to college or who messed up their degree.

Different strokes for different folks!
"Of course, 100%, I know there are some amazing employees who never went to college or who messed up their degree"

How do you distinguish them? If you think people with 2.2 are lazy/dull


I still stand by not putting your grade on your CV. Thats what interviews are meant for!

About people not taking college seriously, sure thats the way life is....

each to their own tbh


A friend of mine had no life in final year, she was in the library 6 days a week etc... 1st year she had a 1.1, 2nd year she had 2.1, 3rd year she 1.1 and guess what she graduated with???
2.2:eek:

No two human beings are the same, same applies in college.


Hon, you and i know you had no life for how many months? It's worth it in the end but not everyone can give the same dedication like you did;)

AARRRGH

MIN2511 wrote: »

How do you distinguish them? If you think people with 2.2 are lazy/dull

Ah, they stand out. For example, one of the best people I've ever worked with: http://jmason.org/cv.html

MIN2511

AARRRGH wrote: »

Ah, they stand out. For example, one of the best people I've ever worked with: http://jmason.org/cv.html

Check out the expereince!:rolleyes:


No graduate would have that!

AARRRGH

MIN2511 wrote: »

Check out the expereince!:rolleyes:


No graduate would have that!

Well, for every job we advertise, we get about 30 CVs. We have to filter them somehow -- we can't interview them all.

Dropping the people with no experience and a poor degree is a good start.

Harsh, but that's the real world for you!

Oshare Bones

Sure that mason fella doesn't even have a "poor degree" as you say, he hasn't got any degree. Your advanced cv filtering logic wouldn't even consider him.

Just to clear something up, I was 0.5% off a 2.1. Got 59.5% degree result. I have contested this for the last 3 months but it's impossible and they are having none of it.

In answer the guy who asked about my work experience, yes I have 6 months experience as a J2EE developer but the company has outsourced all the development work now and aren't hiring any developers.

Raskolnikov

If you have a 2.1 or better, you'll have no problems getting a decent IT job. If you get less, you'll more likely than not be doing a support role.

Oshare Bones

Ok

AARRRGH

Oshare Bones wrote: »

Sure that mason fella doesn't even have a "poor degree" as you say, he hasn't got any degree. Your advanced cv filtering logic wouldn't even consider him.

I said earlier the good people stand out from the crowd.

I work in IT, and I like to hire people who have a genuine interest and aptitude for IT. Someone who gets a 2.2 or lower in their IT degree either doesn't like IT or doesn't have an aptitude for it (or worse, is lazy). I do not want to risk hiring someone like that. I don't think that's unreasonable - I don't work for a charity.

MIN2511

AARRRGH wrote: »

I said earlier the good people stand out from the crowd.

I work in IT, and I like to hire people who have a genuine interest and aptitude for IT. Someone who gets a 2.2 or lower in their IT degree either doesn't like IT or doesn't have an aptitude for it (or worse, is lazy). I do not want to risk hiring someone like that. I don't think that's unreasonable - I don't work for a charity.

Did you read this thread?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055373535

I bet the guys results say 1.1:rolleyes:

AARRRGH

MIN2511 wrote: »

Did you read this thread?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055373535

I bet the guys results say 1.1:rolleyes:

Ah will you stop. For all we know he got a 2.2!

I understand you are taking this thread personally, but honestly, you'd be the first to say you have no interest or aptitude for IT, so I don't know why you're disagreeing with me.

Oshare Bones

It is frightening to think people with your level of ignorance are involved in IT recruitment.