Learning Piano...

DeVore

Ok, I decided to take the plunge and learn piano. I also decided that I couldnt possibly do it alone so from the start I've started lessons once a week for an hour (private tutor).

I'm really enjoying it but its hard to measure how fast I'm going (I dont even know why thats important to me, but it is!).

So I have two questions:

1. What would be your advice to a complete beginner?

2. I've been learning for 3 weeks and I'm happy with how I have progressed as is my teacher. I can play the scales in C, G and A and also in chords, with both hands and both directions so I feel like I've made some progress. (I've also bought a nice Yamaha to practise on too!). But how long is it before a beginner starts to play anything more complex then Mary Had A Little Lamb or Chopsticks?


DeV.

Nevyn

Ah but you are not an average beginner, with your years of muscle memory and dexterity from pc keyboards and your maths ability.

I would say pick a piece that you long to be able to play,
something that moves you or has meaning or memory for you that way you will have passion to do the practice you require.

Always have 2 or 3 pieces that you are learning on the go so that you can change from one to the other
rather then getting utterly frustrated with slogging away at just the one.

The Beatles are a lot harder then you think.

Always warm up with scales.

Always end with something you have mastered and enjoy playing.

Sit fecking properly, it's a good habit esp when you get to the stage were you are playing / practising for an hour,
good posture means you are ( once you get used to it)
actually pretty relaxed and are breathing evenly so you can forget about your body.

The complete piano/keyboards player books are shít imho as they are dumbed down versions of the tunes in them.

By the lil red music theory book, you'll bomb through it and it will unlock the code which is staves, notes and squiggles.

You could be easily playing the maple leaf rag by the new year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLnCuXfQjUk

DeVore

Thanks, that seems like good advice, I'll be taking it!

DeV.

Nevyn

You're welcome.

CPT. SURF

I am starting my first piano lesson ever tonight. I always loved the sound and said I'd give it a lash as the winter is fast approaching and it will be dark when I get home from work. I am going in with no expectations, sure if I learn anything it will be more than I know now. Can't wait, I am even a little bit nervous! like a kid or something

DeVore

I have 4 weeks under my belt now and its going along very well, I'm very happy with my progress, as is my teacher which is making practising easier as I'm keen to improve more!
I have a video of me playing Clocks by Coldplay which I will upload. I got bored silly of scales and learnt it from a video on youtube!
Thats a good resource to add a little spice to your practising

Let us know how you are getting on too, Cpt! keep at it, I was a bit frustrated up to week 3 when things kind of clicked for me and it felt great when it started to come together. Everyone progresses at their own rate (right now I'm stuck on getting timing right with my wayward left hand) but I never knew why piano teacher were always insistent on daily practise in films and TV.... now I understand! 15 minutes every day is much better then 30 minutes every second day!


DeV.

Spider_Baby

Hi DeVore and CPT.

I'm starting lessons next week too, so it's good to hear how you are progressing after only 3 or 4 lessons!

Are there any tips you have already for an absolute beginner like me?
Any books that were recommended to you by your teacher?
I'll keep you both posted on any worthwhile tips I get from my teacher too.
Deal?

Also, did you both buy a keyboard, or did you have one already?
Any advice on a cheapish one that is good value for its price would be great.
Thanks a million!

Frisbee

Spider_Baby wrote: »

Also, did you both buy a keyboard, or did you have one already?
Any advice on a cheapish one that is good value for its price would be great.
Thanks a million!

+1 to this question.
I'm thinking of taking piano back up as well and basically just wondering do you find that you should be getting lessons? Or is possible to teach yourself?
Really couldn't afford lessons right now...

DeVore

I pay 50 a lesson, once a week and bought a (somewhat crappy but sufficent) keyboard (yamaha).

I really DONT think you can teach yourself until someone teaches you. The third-finger-over thing and the way you learn scales are really important. However, I would say you could dump the lessons after a few months. Most of the time is spent playing scales and learning to read sheet music (which is fncked up in the head, seriously someone should go back in time and SLAP those monks).

I have found I improve in fits and starts, quite obviously correlating to how much I practise (well d'uh DeV). I also find that my progress is slowing after the first initial rush of improvement, thats to be expected realistically but muppet-head here wants to learn more and more and play much harder things so I am trying to not get all dissappointed and disillusioned with myself!

SpiderBaby, I didnt get any books though I might pick up a DVD or something soon, now that I have the very basics.
I found having my own keyboard was great and helped a lot, in fact I dont think you could do without one frankly. Daily practise, even just tootling about on it, is a must. Must must must. Run scales, play a piece you like, run scales and you are done. 10-15 minutes, its not a chore. I actually *miss* it when I'm away now
As a result I find that I immediately feel uncomfortable if I fall into some slipshod fingering, which is good... I want to learn the correct way from the start.


Good luck and lets use this thread to encourage all of us and exchange tips!

DeV.

Dord

DeVore wrote: »

I actually *miss* it when I'm away now

That's when you know you're hooked! Wait til you start experiencing G.A.S.! :eek:

Spider_Baby

Dord wrote: »

That's when you know you're hooked! Wait til you start experiencing G.A.S.! :eek:

...what's G.A.S...?

I've only done one lesson so far, but really enjoyed it!
I'm going to group lessons. Seems good so far.

I'll post any tips etc I get

It's great to hear how well you are getting on DeVore.
I'm picking up a keyboard this week, cant wait to get practising!!!

Dord

Spider_Baby wrote: »

...what's G.A.S...?

Gear Aquisition Syndrome

Spider_Baby

Dord wrote: »

Gear Aquisition Syndrome

aaaaaah haha

I don't think my credit card could handle a bout of GAS just yet!!!
Is there an anti-GAS jab I can take??? haha

I should be getting my first keyboard tomorrow, yippee.
Fingers crossed I'm as quick a learner as DeVore!

Dord

Spider_Baby wrote: »

Is there an anti-GAS jab I can take??? haha

The only cure is to lose your job. lol :P

Spider_Baby

Dord wrote: »

The only cure is to lose your job. lol :P

hahaha...so maybe there is a plus-side to this recession afterall

I have a q.......
Just wondering "how" and "what" I should be practising..?
Silly question??
I've had 2 lessons so far. We haven't learnt an actual song yet, but we've been working on a few different bars of notes & we've been playing these to different beats and at different speeds, and with each hand (seperately).
This may be a silly q...but should I just go over these a few times each evening...building up to using both hands together?
Anything else that is good for a newbie to practise?

THanks a million!



p.s. loving the keyboard so far!!!

Antisocialiser

any chance of a link to the lil red music theory book?

my gf is givin me a keyboard and i cant afford lessons so i assume this is a good place to start. i already play guitar btw so i know a bit about music altho not necessarily much theory

DeVore

I ruthlessly practised scales, first the right hand, up and down, then left hand up and down then both hands starting with both thumbs on middle C and right hand going up while left hand goes down. After that I moved the left hand down an octave and ran both hands up and/or down!

Never accept bad fingering, go back and run it again and again until you are sick of it and you can do it in your sleep. Never allow yourself to proceed on after making a mistake, its perfect or you start again.

All of this presumes you know the proper fingering for scales, if not then ask your teacher (its hard to explain here).

For giggles and to break the monotony I would run scales in chords to learn the chords and to get myself used to playing chords. After 3 weeks I started playing simple tunes but I found i could do those easily and they seemed childish (tinkle tinkle little star isnt going to woo the ladies at a party really).

I hit Youtube and found some great tutorial videos (like this guy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12O_YLdVFQw) but I really really recommend have your finger movements and scales nailed tight before proceeding, I've found it was a HUGE help as I dont get tied up with the feeling of needing to grow more fingers

I have now got the opening 24 bars of The Entertainer, Clocks, How to save a life and Beethovens Moonlight Sonata Part 1 down and I'm working on part 2.
Every time I approach one of these I go "ok, so I'll never be able to play that, I've found my limit" and somehow a day or two later I'm playing it without looking. Don't get discouraged, keep at it and it will click.

DeV.

samhail

your going to record your self and put it up within a few months right dev

DeVore

I have a recording somewhere of me playing. Think its on the other laptop. I'll upload something later. I'm by no means perfect hahaha, but I'll show you guys where I'm at...

I'm really enjoying it though, after the dissappointment of trying the guitar (which just wasnt me, even though I would love to be able to play it), the piano seems like my instrument, I think its because I type so much that using all 10 fingers doing different things using muscle memory seems not-so-weird to me.

i'm seriously thinking about starting an Irish piano website just to explore this new facet of interest

DeV.

Mr. K

I've been thinking about how much I'd like to play piano recently. Your posts on your progress are pretty encouraging, DeV. I'd love to see that video of your playing!

I play(ed) bass a few years back, but I never had people around consistently enough to get good playing with others. Picking it up lately, I've forgotten so much. The piano would teach me the theory and get my finger strength back!

Deadeyes

DeVore wrote: »

...Never allow yourself to proceed on after making a mistake, its perfect or you start again...

I'm not sure I'd agree with that. I would say if you make a mistake continue on, but then repeat it until you can do it three times without a mistake. When you progress to playing with or for others then you can't just stop and start again if you make a mistake.

kerryberry

Where are all you guys doing your lessons?? I want to get my husband a voucher for lessons for Christmas and just wondering if anyone has any recommendations... he plays himself but has no proper training as in he can't read music and deffo wouldn't have done scales. I did lessons a few years ago myself in Waltons in Dublin but found them very slow. Then I got preggers, had a sore back and couldn't do them anymore!!!

Spider_Baby

I'd be interested in getting some recommendations in where to do lessons too.
Like Kerryberry mentioned, I'm finding mine very slow also, so I'm thinking of getting individual lessons somewhere once this set of classes comes to an end.
Thanks!

DeVore

My teacher is in Arbour Hill and is quite good. If you need her number, PM me.

My progression is in fits and starts. I had to go away for a while and get very little practise in during that time, then I had to move house and got NO practise during that week. However I started on the Moonlight Sonata on Sunday and by Monday evening had the first part down pretty well, so while I'm rusty it seems to be like riding a bike, you never forget.

I now have two videos of me playing. I seem nervous in both but it was more because of the video camera then nerves at playing the piano! I will upload them when I'm not on a mobile connection (should be a week or two at the latest).

DeV.

Dave!

Hey folks,

I'm thinking of taking up piano now I've been playing guitar for 7 years now, and used to have a sh*tty childish keyboard which I was able to transfer my guitar knowledge to. So I know the keys, chords, etc., on the piano. I just find it hard to actually learn to play songs I also know in theory how to read sheet music, but in reality I would have to spend ages looking at the sheets to determine what key it's in, what chords are being used, etc. Tricky!

Anywho, the old keyboard is kaput (thankfully!), and so I'm thinking I'm gonna take the plunge and buy something decent with the aim of using it for the next year at least (until I go to Australia ), and then coming back to it after! Gonna do it the right way and get a teacher at some point too.

Any recommendations for a keyboard/digital piano with lots (70+?) of weighted keys? My max price would be €500, but €400 is preferable...

Someone in another thread recommended this
http://www.thomann.de/ie/thomann_dp50.htm

Looks the biz to me! Are Thomann an alright brand? Any problems ordering of the website before? How long does delivery take?
Any other recommendations?


*Sorry for hijacking your thread DeV * Fair play on getting into the peeeyanah

ps. i've spent the last half hour listening to Mozart's sonata facile over and over again... It makes me weep This chap plays it well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJyyagBryzM
It shall be my project piece.........

Spider_Baby

Hi everyone!

DeV, I can't wait to see those videos. It will be interesting to see how you are getting along.
A little update on me...I've done 5 lessons now. I am doing group classes with 5 other people...so progress is a little slow. I'm also not getting as much practise in as I'd like.
However, I'm loving it!
I started learning guitar a few years back and it really really wasn't for me at all. I lost interest in it very quickly when I wasn't noticing any progress or improvement.
The keyboard seems different though. Even hitting a few basic notes can produce a nice basic tune, like Jingle Bells!

Just wondering, what outside resources are you all using, apart from a teacher / class?
I'm finding my group class a little slow (thinking of getting individual lessons when these classes finish), and I'm also a little impatient, so I'd love to go ahead and learn some "proper" songs.
Can anyone recommend any songs that are quite simple to play?
I'm talking normal songs here...there's only so much Jingle Bells a girl can play! haha
And also, where are you finding the sheet music for these? Free sites online? Or are you learning off youtube?

Keep up the good work guys

nervous_twitch

Spider_Baby wrote: »

Hi everyone!

Just wondering, what outside resources are you all using, apart from a teacher / class? And also, where are you finding the sheet music for these? Free sites online? Or are you learning off youtube?

Keep up the good work guys

I have been playing for just over 2 years and have yet to take any lessons; YouTube was a godsend. I have a fairly good catalogue of songs from just watching tutorials - you'll find most popular piano songs (pop/rock/indie etc) on there, and they're all pretty easy to play, based around a few simple chords.

Only downside is you can get a bit lazy when it comes to theory etc, because essentially you're just being told which keys to play. I have only now started to learn to read sheet music because I'm finding hard to make any major progression without knowing the staff.

There are also a few piano tablature websites out there which can help. I started by making a list of a few of my favourite piano songs, and learned how to play them inside/out. You can do this while still concentrating on the work you're getting in class; I'd recommend it even, because its good practice for correct fingering etc. Good luck.

Dave!

Spider Baby, a good resource for sheets is www.pianofiles.com

DeVore

Ok, the much awaited, long over due and totally overhyped videos are up. Perpare to be shocked and amazed at my awesome mastery of this instrument.

Ok, actually these make me cringe because I can play better now and I was more nervous of the video camera then the piano
I took each of these in one shot and left the mistakes in so I wasnt presenting an untrue picture of my progress so far, plus the timing is off on a lot of them, something I am working on now.

These were taken at the 6-9 week stage. right now I'm working on Fur Elise which is a nice piece but a touch tricky in terms of coordination.

Moonlight Sonata intro:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3fdHXuU1Vk

Clocks by coldplay (please dont expect much, I have refined this a lot since )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQrJWLsk-Uo

Amazing Grace:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOJjEqGzQx8
(this one is terrific for practising left hand chords and taught me that dinging a note before playing its corresponding chord sounds nice!)

DeV.

DeVore

Wait, Thead, I just reread your post. You think I/we could be playing that by NEW YEAR??? I thought you wrote "within a year" and even then I was fairly shocked. Are you taking the mick?! If I *ever* play like that I'll be happy. You are kidding... arent you?

as for Gear Aqcuisition Syndrome... I think its kicked in. I am already thinking about buying a new piano with full action keys and 88 rather then 61. Combine this with my other new hobby, photography and the costs rack up pretty fast. But I gotta have that new keyboard

DeV.

4zn76tysfajdxp

Jesus, I was always intimidated at the prospect of learning piano but Devore's progress is really inspiring. Maybe I'll look into it more closely...

Dave!

FYI, some more good sites for sheets

http://jeanies_home_studio.tripod.com/id9.html
http://pianofan.blogspot.com/
http://pianomusicsheet.blogspot.com/

I got my piano It's fantashtic. Bargain for €400 tbh!

Nevyn

DeVore wrote: »

Wait, Thead, I just reread your post. You think I/we could be playing that by NEW YEAR??? I thought you wrote "within a year" and even then I was fairly shocked. Are you taking the mick?! If I *ever* play like that I'll be happy. You are kidding... arent you?

The first movement of the maple leaf rag ain't that hard.
Depends on how hard you want and how much time you put in

froosh69

hi there,

I've been playing since I was 5 yrs old...and fair play to you!
The key is to enjoy it...you'll never put in the work if your not arsed...and there is some really sound advice here-play the stuff you like, music is meant to be enjoyed...

One more little thing, if you can play piano, you can play anything- if you understand keys, time sigs, how to read music...you know, really UNDERSTAND music, you could pick up guitar, for example, much easier than anyone with no understanding of music...

Congratulations, and keep it up!

DeVore

One of the things I have found the MOST fun about learning the piano (and you will all laugh at me) is the maths behind the music. Its awesome! There's sh*t going on in there (particularly Mozart) that is just whacked out, some of his stuff is similar to how molecules of various proteins are formed etc (a kind of cyclical group theory as far as I can see). *
I know. I'm a nerd.

Also I am absolutely *amazed* at how totally cheaty some bits of quite famous music are... The Eastenders theme is nothing more then the scales and a few tweaks (and I always disliked it ).

Playing The Moonlight Sonata really opened my eyes to it, he's just rotating notes like a sequence of numbers, rarely changing more then one note in any 3 note rotation but by changing a different one each time he produces a simple but elegant piece of music. I think I could "design" a piece of music without ever hearing it be played (after a lot more study of music of course! Perhaps I should write "someone could design..." )

DeV.

*if that pickles your guerkin you'll love this: I showed a friend of mine who is a professor of astronomy in UCD the graphs of the logs of Boards.ie and apparently she says they are an exact match for the graphs from a gamma ray burst (thats a sun exploding for the likes of you and me )

Kareir

I played piano for.. well.. about 5 years.

The thing for me (and still is) is not to worry about grades (never did them) or how difficult a song was: once you know the basics, you can kinda see how they're made up. (as DeV just said) And that makes them easier to play.
Of Course, there's still the motor skill element, but practise makes perfect :P


_Kar

splitrmx

I had piano lessons for a few years when I was a kid, then gave it up when I started college. I recently decided to start learning a few classical pieces again though.

My main advice would be to practice either on a real piano or a proper sized weighted keyboard. The weighted part is very important as you won't develop finger strength playing some crappy light plastic key cheapo thing.

I don't own a real piano any more but I'm currently using an M-Audio Keystation 88 Pro midi controller. As it's just a midi controller it doesn't produce any sound itself, so I'm using it to play Native Instruments Akoustik Piano software which sounds pretty good in my (amateur) opinion.

Other advice: get proper lessons. Things that don't seem important (scales, theory etc) are actually important, I always hated sight reading but now that I'm teaching myself I realise how important it is (nobody here to tell me which note is what!). Practice a bit every day.

We're lucky nowadays to have Youtube (and the internet in general) where you can hear other people play things, download tracks and sheet music. I was six years old when I started lessons, I don't think Arpanet had videos up on it back then.

Nick_oliveri

This will be my teacher

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFLF-gh4C2M

Nearly have the rythm down without looking at the keyboard. Trying to wrap your head around the timings of different hands is annoying.

Also using Guitar Pro for "reading tabs" is a bit stupid too. But its so handy.

DeVore

God, I'm such a cheat at this. I come here and post when I'm all happy and have good news to report but not when I'm sucking hard and cant tell the white keys from the black ones.

So, after a total abandonment over the xmas when I hardly practised once and surprise surprise I went into REVERSE... I have gotten back on the horse and cracked Fur Elise (parts 1-4, not the mad stuff!).

Now, when I say cracked..... I can now, with patience and time, hit all the right notes in more or less the right sequence, close to the correct time (provided I'm not changing hands at the time ).

It feels terrific. It sounds horrendous but it feels great!

I picked Fur Elise because I like the piece. Ok, I USED to like it. I'm sick to the back teeth of it now but I hope that will fade

Also because it was tricky enough (I learned the proper beethoven sheet music, not a cut down beginners piece because I wanted to learn the piece as I knew it). It was a struggle, I wont lie to you. But inside a weeks HARD practising and much lecturing of my errant little finger, I feel I've cracked it. Holding it all in my head is hard, but much of it is now transferring to muscle memory and the lovely feeling of simply hitting the right key and then thinking "hey, I didnt think about that" has started. About f***ing time, lol!

So, next I want to master this piece and after that I am moving on to She's Always a Woman to Me by Billy Joel, because I want to accompany my singing. I joke with my mates that I will be able to sound TWICE as out-of-key now.

Its either that or Home by The Secret Garden which is a beautiful piece of music.

I might see if I can get time to do some more video stuff so you can see where I have gotten to (and not gotten to!)

DeV.