'Black hole' machine could destroy planet: lawsuit

Max_Damage

Indeed.

'Black hole' machine could destroy planet: lawsuit

Updated Sat. Apr. 5 2008 7:04 AM ET

Parminder Parmar, CTV.ca News

An American and a Spaniard have launched a lawsuit to stop scientists from firing up a machine they fear could destroy not just life on Earth but the planet itself.

International scientists, including dozens from Canada, are about to launch the Large Hadron Collider (LHC), a 27-kilometre long particle accelerator built near Geneva, Switzerland. It will shoot beams of protons at each other in an effort to recreate conditions that resemble what the universe might have been like in the milliseconds after the Big Bang.

"We want to probe the most basic particles and constituents (and we're) trying to understand how matter was made," Robert McPherson, a University of Victoria physics professor who is working on the project, told CTV.ca in a phone interview from Vancouver.

In the process, scientists may end up creating miniature black holes -- areas of space that have gravitational pulls so strong that not even light can escape.

The more matter a black hole pulls in, the stronger it becomes. And that's what worries Walter Wagner, the American who is suing to temporarily stop the project. He says the creation of these black holes here on Earth, no matter how small, may unleash a chain reaction that could destroy the planet.

Wagner says there's a possibility that black holes could just get bigger and bigger as they pull more and more matter into themselves.

"Eventually, all of Earth would fall into such growing micro-black-holes, converting Earth into a medium-sized black hole, around which would continue to orbit the moon, satellites, and the (International Space Station)," according to court papers Wagner, along with a citizen of Spain, filed in Honolulu.

In other words, Wagner asserts the LHC is a machine that will end up causing the Earth to eat itself -- perhaps in less than a century. It may sound fantastic, like a plotline out of a James Bond movie where an evil scientist holds the earth for ransom with a deadly weapon, but Wagner says the possibility isn't science fiction.

"Science fiction can be very strange and sometimes it can come very true. This is in the realm of possibilities where fiction can become fact," Wagner told CTV.ca in a telephone interview from his home in Honolulu.

Wagner, an education consultant who studied physics at Berkeley, says scientists working on the project haven't done enough studies to make sure the scenario he envisions won't actually occur. The suit -- which is filed against various U.S. agencies, including the Environmental Protection Agency -- aims to get a restraining order to stop work on the project until more safety studies are completed.

McPherson admits small black holes may be created, but he says the concerns are overblown. He says there is virtually no possibility that any black hole that scientists may create at the Large Hadron Collider will end up absorbing the Earth.

"Assuming our wildest fantasies, how much matter can one of these black holes consume in a second, in a year, or even in several billion years?" asks McPherson.

"A black hole we could make at the LHC would only consume a tiny fraction of a gram of matter from Earth. There's no possibility of causing any damage to the Earth," he said.

McPherson says the black holes will decay and disappear quickly. He adds that what scientists are trying to do in a laboratory setting at the LHC happens in nature daily.

"The Earth is constantly being bombarded by cosmic rays. Many of them have much higher energies than what we can create with the LHC. If something dangerous was being made in these interactions it would already have happened in cosmic ray interactions," he said.

But that's no comfort to Wagner. He says the LHC is like a factory that creates a waste product without any way to dispose of it. If he's correct, the factory won't get rid of the byproduct. Instead, the byproduct will dispose of the factory -- and everything else.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080405/black_hole_080405/20080405?hub=TopStories

AlmightyCushion

Ah, not more of this LHC shíte. Can't wait until they start the thing and destroy the earth so I don't have to read any more stories about it.

jayteecork

Top Scientists thought that detonating a nuclear bomb could ignite the atmosphere and completely destory the planet.

They did it anyway.

shenanigans1982

Something like this should have been put to a vote and if even one person had a problem with it the whole project should have been scrapped.

AlmightyCushion

shenanigans1982 wrote: »

Something like this should have been put to a vote and if even one person had a problem with it the whole project should have been scrapped.

If we did this for every scientific experiment we'd never have progressed to the stage we are at today.

shenanigans1982

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

If we did this for every scientific experiment we'd never have progressed to the stage we are at today.

Better to be living in caves than dragged into a black hole in the middle of Switzerland.

WoollyRedHat

I have never heard of this before!




If we keep on talking about the lhc we'll create a blackhole in cyberspace. Then the man ain't gonna be happy.

Personally, I wish it was under canada, it would do away with Celion Dion and the like and we'll know how the universe was made as a perk!

pablomakaveli

iv a feeling its gonna be a repeat of the Y2K thing again. all the apocalyptic predictions only to be nothing in the end.

WoollyRedHat

I have never heard of this before!




If we keep on talking about the lhc we'll create a blackhole in cyberspace. Then the man ain't gonna be happy.

Personally, I wish it was under canada, it would do away with Celion Dion and the like and we'll know how the universe was made as a perk!

But canadians are involved?! ****, this time we won't even get a chance to blame them!

shenanigans1982

shenanigans1982 wrote: »

Something like this should have been put to a vote and if even one person had a problem with it the whole project should have been scrapped.

Riiiight.

I'd be more concerned at what you don't know about, OP.




Wait, that sounded more cryptic in my head.

RuailleBuaille

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

I have never heard of this before!




If we keep on talking about the lhc we'll create a blackhole in cyberspace. Then the man ain't gonna be happy.

Personally, I wish it was under canada, it would do away with Celion Dion and the like and we'll know how the universe was made as a perk!

But canadians are involved?! ****, this time we won't even get a chance to blame them!

I like Canada.

mike65

In other words, Wagner asserts the LHC is a machine that will end up causing the Earth to eat itself -- perhaps in less than a century

Won't like, someone turn it off before then?

Mike.

ZygOte

shenanigans1982 wrote: »

Something like this should have been put to a vote and if even one person had a problem with it the whole project should have been scrapped.

Troll much? :pac:

pickarooney

I love the bit in the second paragraph - including dozens from Canada
Obviously it's from a Canuck website, but it sounds so ominous.

pickarooney

shenanigans1982 wrote: »

Better to be living in caves than dragged into a black hole in the middle of Switzerland.

Has Jo Fritzl got a cousin in Zurich?

FruitLover

Say what you want, I'm glad the world has Americans. They're a constant source of entertainment.

shenanigans1982 wrote: »

Something like this should have been put to a vote and if even one person had a problem with it the whole project should have been scrapped.

Here's a slightly better idea: something like this should have been put to a vote, and if even one person who holds a doctorate in theoretical physics had a problem with it, the whole project should have been scrapped.

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

If we did this for every scientific experiment we'd never have progressed to the stage we are at today.

Haha

What my parents' generation probably would have thought had they seen the likes of the Wii console in action:

Originally Might Have Been Posted by Old Cnuts
:eek: 'Tis the devil's work!!

Carsinian Thau

In other words, Wagner asserts the LHC is a machine that will end up causing the Earth to eat itself -- perhaps in less than a century

Hardly any of us will be alive in 100 years.

Let the kids handle it.

mike65

mike65 wrote: »

Won't like, someone turn it off before then?

Mike.

You can turn the machine off, but you can't turn a black hole off.



Jeez man, have you never watched Futurama?!



If it does create a black hole.. won't the first thing it sucks up, be the actual LHC?

mike65

Thats like typing google into google

Mike

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

The Hardon Collinder has already destroyed Earth. What you are experienceing now is the matrix.

iTroll

mike65 wrote: »

Thats like typing google into google

Mike

I for one, tried that

smallBiscuit

Deleted User wrote: »

If it does create a black hole.. won't the first thing it sucks up, be the actual LHC?

Well then that'll solve the problem, the black hole will swallow the black hole!
no worries then

Guy:Incognito

shenanigans1982 wrote: »

Something like this should have been put to a vote and if even one person had a problem with it the whole project should have been scrapped.

Thats ridiculous.

If scientists annouced a pill that would cure cancer, aids and lodge €1,000,000 in your bank account some tool would object just to annoy people/rock the vote/generally because they are a tool. Nothing would ever get done on that principal.



"including dozens from Canada" I sense a major build up to "it was the bloody Canadians" in case it all goes to ****.

KnifeWRENCH

Ah who the fcuk cares if the Earth gets sucked up in a black hole? It's not like it's a great planet anyway.

I say we should have MORE of these machines.

egan007

Er...these machines have been around for decades

Sure this is the biggest one but lets just remember that it's not new.

Sherifu

Mmmmmmm, black hole.

brianthebard

jayteecork wrote: »

Top Scientists thought that detonating a nuclear bomb could ignite the atmosphere and completely destory the planet.

They did it anyway.

And aren't we so lucky they did?

Quazzie

shenanigans1982 wrote: »

Something like this should have been put to a vote and if even one person had a problem with it the whole project should have been scrapped.

Are you talking about the scientific project of this thread? I for one vote against this thread

Victor McDade

RuailleBuaille wrote: »

I like Canada.

so you're the one....

Victor McDade

i got sucked into a black hole once. in my defense, i was drunk. it smelt like fish....

Mahatma coat

Look, if you domanage to corner a Physicist inperson and ask them about this ( I did a few days ago with one of my Customers who is a lecturer at QUT) they will admit that they havent really gota clue what this thing will do, they have made best guesses as to what it will do and most of them think that the probability of it destroyin the planet are minimal, however most of them also think that whenit fires up we will learn some mind blowin things about the nature of the Universe, maybe they have a vested interest in it, but at the same time dont we all.

I cant wait to find out what it does, and anyway if it does make a sustainable blackhole we can use it as the worlds largest garbage disposal system, Environmental WIN

brianthebard

Mahatma coat wrote: »

Look, if you domanage to corner a Physicist inperson and ask them about this ( I did a few days ago with one of my Customers who is a lecturer at QUT) they will admit that they havent really gota clue what this thing will do, they have made best guesses as to what it will do and most of them think that the probability of it destroyin the planet are minimal, however most of them also think that whenit fires up we will learn some mind blowin things about the nature of the Universe, maybe they have a vested interest in it, but at the same time dont we all.

MAYBE they have a vested interest in it? Millions in research grants, careers, news coverage, the chance to play with a big two like the little kids they are? That's just for starters.

Silenceisbliss

I for one couldnt care less if they fire it up. chances are that if it does create a significant black hole, the thing will just eat us up before we even realise it.

big whoop, it's not the end of the world like!.....:rolleyes:

chin_grin

Silenceisbliss wrote: »

I for one couldnt care less if they fire it up. chances are that if it does create a significant black hole, the thing will just eat us up before we even realise it.

big whoop, it's not the end of the world like!.....:rolleyes:

Haha! I see what you did there........ ¬_¬

Now, me being a keen viewer of SciFi movies. I've been thinking will we all be transported to an alternate dimension where we may all become evil and rip each other to pieces before gouging out our own eyeballs and speaking latin. (Yes: Event Horizon!)

For one thing, I have my trusty crowbar ready to fend off evil head-sucking aliens.

Wazdakka

All this talk of throbbing machinery, and a giant cavernous black hole that could take the entire planet through it has me a little aroused.

And thinking of Yore Ma..



/Runs...

Honey-ec

That's what worries Walter Wagner, the American who is suing to temporarily stop the project. He says the creation of these black holes here on Earth, no matter how small, may unleash a chain reaction that could destroy the planet.

At least now we know Run_to_da_Hills' real name...

kaimera

Updated Sat. Apr. 5 2008 7:04 AM ET

/checks current date

*yawn*

Mint Sauce

so thats where leitrem went to


:pac:

Dave!

*Morons in hindering scientific progress shocker!*

4Xcut

I for one welcome our new black hole overlords....

ShooterSF

4Xcut wrote: »

I for one welcome our new black hole overlords....

Was starting to worry that the joke was being forgotten!

mike65

mike65 wrote: »

Thats like typing google into google

Mike

I just looked up dictionary in the dictionary (well, dictionary.com)

1. a book containing a selection of the words of a language, usually arranged alphabetically, giving information about their meanings, pronunciations, etymologies, inflected forms, etc., expressed in either the same or another language; lexicon; glossary: a dictionary of English; a Japanese-English dictionary.
2. a book giving information on particular subjects or on a particular class of words, names, or facts, usually arranged alphabetically: a biographical dictionary; a dictionary of mathematics.
3. Computers.
a. a list of codes, terms, keys, etc., and their meanings, used by a computer program or system.
b. a list of words used by a word-processing program as the standard against which to check the spelling of text entered.

Well, that answered that.

antodeco

ShooterSF wrote: »

Was starting to worry that the joke was being forgotten!

Possibly into the black hole.

I reckon this thread gets merged with the "Zombie Survival" forum.

Jim

I'm just imagining the epic amount of facepalming going on by the scientists running the thing.

Fozzie Bear

chin_grin wrote: »

For one thing, I have my trusty crowbar ready to fend off evil head-sucking aliens.

I prefer my big plank with a rusty nail in it......

pablomakaveli

we could throw mary harney into the black hole her fat arse should seal it up nicely.

4Xcut

@above,

Might not be the best idea as afaik black holes get stringer as more matter gets sucked into them....unless you want to speed up the inevitable

jester77

Must buy a torch... just in case!!

cooperguy

jayteecork wrote: »

Top Scientists thought that detonating a nuclear bomb could ignite the atmosphere and completely destory the planet.

They did it anyway.

Thats Bull. Its another one of those stories that gets exaturated all the time. ONE scientist thought it was a possibility. The rest of the scientists thought about it and realised it was impossible, then they did the test.

Ciaran500

http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/2282/1220360595652rf8.jpg

Apocalypse confirmed.

R0ot

Didn't they already start the LHC weeks ago?