My ever-growing misogyny

LegacyUser

I'm getting more and more bitter and I know it's an unhealthy attitude and I really need some help pulling my head around this.

I was going out with a girl for three years. During that time it felt like, you know, 'true love'. Towards the end of our relationship I was getting stronger and stronger feelings for another girl. Through lack of maturity, I ended it and tried, in vain, to pursue this cocktease with a long term boyfriend. This tore me up, she kept making it look like it could happen and then would deny me. I was becoming obsessed. I had given up an incredibly tender and close relationship and was simply a gushing void. My college work suffered as did my mental health for about a year.

I'm over this girl now, but I resent the f*ck out of her. Don't get me wrong, I know that I'm 100% more responsible but I can't stop being so angry at how she treated the situation. Now I haven't had sex in over a year. I'm a 22 year old healthy male. I've pretty low self-esteem but I've mates who are definitely less appealing than me that get a lot of action.. Low self-esteem is pretty unattractive. I know this. Working on it..

The ex-girlfriend and I have stayed friendly... I broke it off and I know that it hurt her. Now I'm pissed at how, a year on, she's over it and I'm not. I don't want to be friends with her anymore. It pains me to think of her being sexually active and I still dwell on the memories of us and have no memories to take their place. I think of her as a whore, it really disgusts me even though I know she wouldn't be as promiscuous as most girls her age. She doesn't help matters by thinking that I've any obligation to be her emotional crutch. She knows me too well.. intimately as well. She's always wants to know what's going on in my love life and seeing as how there is none to talk of, I feel 6 inches tall.

The one thing that I'm pretty happy with in my life is the amount of friends I have. Both male and female. I've noticed that I have a lot more female friends than a lot of my male friends. I guess it's because I'm a pretty sensitive guy. This isn't attractive either in my experience. The problem is how many of these girls I would give the world for. Beautiful, interesting or just really fun girls, some are all of them, yet I don't think one of them would even think of me in this way. I'm not sure if it's that I'm unattractive, because they don't want to risk our friendship or because these girls know me well enough to know how f*cked up I am.

I'm f*cking sick of it. I'm sick of being good enough to help them out whenever they need me when they're willing to get on top of strangers in a club. Sick of just giving logical advice when they have their stupid f*cking problems. Like when they're going out with a guy that just doesn't deserve them, I tell them, I'm not trying to sabotage anything, when they're being unreasonable with the guy I tell them that too. It happens so often, when happiness is within their grasp and they act like f*cking morons.

I resent them so much. They have no idea, men just line up for them and they act like such idiots. Noone is trying to be with me. I'm so f*cking lonely, and probably more critical at this stage. so f*cking horny. I'm jerking a good 3 or 4 times a day.

I'm actually a nice guy, I really go out of my way to help any of my friends, the guys always appreciate it and the girls, for the most, don't.

It's happened countlessly in the last couple of months, I meet a girl somehow, we meet up, or text or bebo. I start to think that they might very well be interested but am too scared to make any sort of move because it's actually that hard to believe they actually are. Then things go cold and next thing I know, they're going out with someone else.

I'm starting to think that these girls don't deserve what I do for them, I mean I'll always be friendly to everyone I know but I don't think I should give any more than I have to. I mean, even when I read the posts by some women on boards, it drives me nuts! They won't go with a guy who's too short, or doesn't earn enough or they're complaining how all the good men are taken. God, these women have some egos. They hold themselves as prizes and why shouldn't they? They're used to getting to pick and choose. Then they complain about the blokes they choose. YOU CHOSE HIM OVER PLENTY OF LOVELY SINGLE GUYS!

I have really gotten so cynical as of late, and I know this is actually harming my chances of getting back in the game. Then again I think it's so pointless. I loved my ex, she was smart, pretty and we knew eachother inside out. Now I just about hate her. No girl I've met, (apart from the other girl) has captivated me as much. I need sex but I want a meaningful relationship.

I'm anticipating a complete slagging too about how I'm actually a douchebag/loser for feeling this way but I'm putting this down in the hopes of someone actually giving me some constructive advice because I don't think I'm wrong at this stage... Like I know my attitude is wrong but I think a lot of what I've said about women is spot on.

marti101

Cop on,you broke it off thinking you got a better offer that never happened.You blame everybody but yourself.Your ex who you broke it off with is now having sex and why shouldnt she,she is a free women.You cant have your cake and eat it,shes single obviously got over you[thats probably the bit that kills you that shes not begging you to get back with her].You have just learnes that the grass isnt always greener,learn from it and move on.

Silverfish

Bitterguy wrote: »

The ex-girlfriend and I have stayed friendly... I broke it off and I know that it hurt her. Now I'm pissed at how, a year on, she's over it and I'm not. I don't want to be friends with her anymore. It pains me to think of her being sexually active and I still dwell on the memories of us and have no memories to take their place. I think of her as a whore, it really disgusts me even though I know she wouldn't be as promiscuous as most girls her age. She doesn't help matters by thinking that I've any obligation to be her emotional crutch. She knows me too well.. intimately as well. She's always wants to know what's going on in my love life and seeing as how there is none to talk of, I feel 6 inches tall.

Just to point out the hypocrisy - you left her for some girl based on physical attraction. I fail to see how your gf is a 'whore' when its you that dumped her.

Bitterguy wrote: »

The problem is how many of these girls I would give the world for. Beautiful, interesting or just really fun girls, some are all of them, yet I don't think one of them would even think of me in this way.

I'm f*cking sick of it. I'm sick of being good enough to help them out whenever they need me when they're willing to get on top of strangers in a club. Sick of just giving logical advice when they have their stupid f*cking problems. Like when they're going out with a guy that just doesn't deserve them, I tell them, I'm not trying to sabotage anything, when they're being unreasonable with the guy I tell them that too. It happens so often, when happiness is within their grasp and they act like f*cking morons.
I resent them so much. They have no idea, men just line up for them and they act like such idiots.

Either they're your friends, or they are ' f*cking morons'.
You start out by saying they're beautiful, fun.... then tear them apart. These are not friends, these are girls you are hanging around in the hope they notice you, possibly the same way you chased that girl with a boyfriend.
Either you're a friend, or you're trying to get with them. Can't blame them for you have ulterior motives for the friendship.

Bitterguy wrote: »

I'm actually a nice guy, I really go out of my way to help any of my friends, the guys always appreciate it and the girls, for the most, don't.

To be honest, you don't sound it so far.

Bitterguy wrote: »

It's happened countlessly in the last couple of months, I meet a girl somehow, we meet up, or text or bebo. I start to think that they might very well be interested but am too scared to make any sort of move because it's actually that hard to believe they actually are. Then things go cold and next thing I know, they're going out with someone else.

I'm starting to think that these girls don't deserve what I do for them, I mean I'll always be friendly to everyone I know but I don't think I should give any more than I have to. I mean, even when I read the posts by some women on boards, it drives me nuts! They won't go with a guy who's too short, or doesn't earn enough or they're complaining how all the good men are taken. God, these women have some egos. They hold themselves as prizes and why shouldn't they? They're used to getting to pick and choose. Then they complain about the blokes they choose. YOU CHOSE HIM OVER PLENTY OF LOVELY SINGLE GUYS!

So hold on, you're afraid to make a move, and you won't make a move, yet its their fault for eventually being with someone else?
If some guy refused to let me know he was interested, I'd assume he wasn't and be on my way. It'd be bad form of him to throw a hissy fit because I didn't somehow 'know' he was interested.

Bitterguy wrote: »

I loved my ex, she was smart, pretty and we knew eachother inside out. Now I just about hate her. No girl I've met, (apart from the other girl) has captivated me as much. I need sex but I want a meaningful relationship.

No you didn't. If you loved her, you wouldn't have left her for a girl you yourself described as a 'cocktease'.


I think you need to look at what YOU'VE done wrong. You're passing the blame onto your ex (whore) the girl you chased (Cocktease) your female friends (F*cking morons) .... I mean, they can't all be wrong, and you right, surely?

If you look realistically and rationally at how YOU have ended up in this situation from the choices YOU have made (dumping your ex that you 'loved', being afraid to tell girls you're interested, etc) then maybe you might be able to isolate the issue, and move on.

spinandscribble

your ex doesn't owe you anything and neither does that girl you chased. you're her friend, its amazing she can be friends with you after what you did. emotional crutch? she thinks she can lean on you as she's your friend. just admit it you're not friends with her, you resent that she got over you. you call her a slut when you know it isn't true. you have no just reason to hate her.
you're not a loser but you need to take responsible for your actions. these women on bebo don't owe you anything, you say it yourself, you were too slow to make a move so they moved on. i wouldn't lump yourself in the lovely single guy group so quick. i'd put you in the bitter guy, made a stupid decision and havn't gotten over it yet group. you come across as someone who thinks the world owes you something.

you need to start fresh. stop contact with the ex. tell yourself "yeah i fecked up, i hurt someone i care about but i'll do better next time. in the mean time i'll stop blaming everyone but me and take a fresh look what i can do better with women".

you piss me off but i'm trying not to let that affect me when i'm trying to give you advice. i just hope none of my male friends think like you.

LegacyUser

Ok, you're missing the point here. I'm well aware of what I did. I'm well aware of my responsibility too.

I don't regret breaking it off with her. It was the right thing to do. I miss her, of course I do. As for the love thing, how would you know? Are you the expert on love? We were going out for 3 years. For at least 2 and a half years we were very much in love. When we broke up, she still was, I wasn't. The other girl was not only based on physical attraction. I never said that.

At the same time, I never said I was trying to get into my friends pants. These are people that I care for quite dearly. I'm able to be friends with morons, if you aren't then that's your problem. I can be friends with someone without condoning their every action. All that matters is our own relationship.

As for being a nice guy, well, you're never going to think it from a thread rooted in such bitterness are you? I know that I always do the right thing by me, being moral by my own sense is incredibly important to me.


This post isn't about my ex or the girl. That is history and a learning process. This post is about my observations and experiences of women making me so very bitter.

JonathanAnon

Think ye are being a bit hard on the guy. At the end of the day, he didnt try to get off with the other girl behind his ex's back. He broke it off with her and planned to hook up with the other one, but unfortunately she was just a tease. He lost his missus, he made a mistake, the grass is always greener etc etc.... He didnt do anything hugely wrong, morally.

I had a similar situation, was going out with a lovely girl. ****ed it up, similarly, and then had to see her in my local every saturday night. It's very tough but you either have to suck it up and pass yourself off every time you see her (i.e. not end up in a row), or just move yourself out of the circles that she moves in.

As for the bitterness, just chill out. Look you made a mistake, it's not like she went off with your best friend. You made the mistake.. These things happen, look toward the possibilites of the future, not to the mistakes of the past.. You could be a week away from being with the best looking women in the village...

LolaLuv

Bitterguy wrote: »

This post is about my observations and experiences of women making me so very bitter.

Women don't make you bitter, you make yourself so. Every time you get dicked over in life you have one of two choices 1) Learn from the experience and improve yourself or 2) Become angry and withdraw from the world. Option 2 will give you no benefits. Don't let the last one ruin you for the next one.

spinandscribble

so far nothing you've said can made me understand your problem with women. they havn't done anything to you apart from not wait around for you to ask them out or fancy you enough to break up with someone for you. i sincerely wish you'd realise its you that has a problem here not these women otherwise you're not going to get anywhere fast.

marti101

Bitterguy wrote: »

Ok, you're missing the point here. I'm well aware of what I did. I'm well aware of my responsibility too.

I don't regret breaking it off with her. It was the right thing to do. I miss her, of course I do. As for the love thing, how would you know? Are you the expert on love? We were going out for 3 years. For at least 2 and a half years we were very much in love. When we broke up, she still was, I wasn't. The other girl was not only based on physical attraction. I never said that.

At the same time, I never said I was trying to get into my friends pants. These are people that I care for quite dearly. I'm able to be friends with morons, if you aren't then that's your problem. I can be friends with someone without condoning their every action. All that matters is our own relationship.

As for being a nice guy, well, you're never going to think it from a thread rooted in such bitterness are you? I know that I always do the right thing by me, being moral by my own sense is incredibly important to me.


This post isn't about my ex or the girl. That is history and a learning process. This post is about my observations and experiences of women making me so very bitter.

Obviously you still love your ex otherwise it wouldnt bothe you what she did/didnt do,And to be fair you posted the thread so we are going by what you did and said.Personally your ex did love you but when you broke it off .....maybe she realised what you were really like and got over you.Being the bigger person she also forgave you for dumping her.

LegacyUser

spinandscribble wrote: »

so far nothing you've said can made me understand your problem with women. they havn't done anything to you apart from not wait around for you to ask them out or fancy you enough to break up with someone for you. i sincerely wish you'd realise its you that has a problem here not these women otherwise you're not going to get anywhere fast.

I suppose what pisses me off is that any semi-attractive girl simply has to go out to have 20 offers of sex and the chance that they'll meet Mr Right. They don't have to do any work.
One of my friends actually broke it down for me the other night. The difference between me and my friend was that he gives them a little attention and then doesn't give them any and this apparently, 'drives girls mad'. She said that I'm too nice, I give too much attention which isn't sexy and that I never strike when the iron's hot. What the f*ck am I supposed to think of that!?

Talliesin

You really sound like you expect somebody somewhere to be perfect.

When your friends turn to you for advice, as you say above they often do, do you take the fact that everyone is only human into account?

If not, your advice probably always sucks and you should just shut up the next time. If so you need to live your own words a bit.

Phototoxin

OP that's not how love works, you dont beak off the current 'deal' to get a 'better offer'

Women are there to be loved, not merely to be shagged.

Also I have no sympathy for you not having sex. Sex isn't what a relationship is about. Its supposed to be based on Love.

Just to point out the hypocrisy - you left her for some girl based on physical attraction. I fail to see how your gf is a 'whore' when its you that dumped her.

Sing it Silverfish !

marti101

Nobody expects you to be perfect but what they do expect of you is of you balls up then maybe act like a grown up rather than a little kid

spinandscribble

Bitterguy wrote: »

I suppose what pisses me off is that any semi-attractive girl simply has to go out to have 20 offers of sex and the chance that they'll meet Mr Right. They don't have to do any work.
One of my friends actually broke it down for me the other night. The difference between me and my friend was that he gives them a little attention and then doesn't give them any and this apparently, 'drives girls mad'. She said that I'm too nice, I give too much attention which isn't sexy and that I never strike when the iron's hot. What the f*ck am I supposed to think of that!?

ok, i'll break it down further for you.
you don't txt them, message them none stop. if you like them and they seem to like you, you ask them if they'd like to go out sometime. don't play games. if a girl needs you to mess them around for them to be interested in you, shes not really a good match is she?

pisslips

The guy actually makes sense. I mean of course you right that women expect to be spoiled and gratified, they get it so often. I mean I've had girls get pissed off at me because I didn't compliment, seriously, as in compliment, something you give to someone, not to be expected.
Also in my experience girls can be more selfish and hypocritical and judgemental than men. But I think most men know these things, thats the situation, deal with it. Most people male or female will use you if you gratify them or even give them attention, sometimes these things can be so obvious it makes me cringe and I wonder how people completely de-sensitise themselves to the obvious insecurities, alterior motives and plays for attention we see every day.

It's sick I know, but thats just the way it is, I don't know what else to say, that's people.

I think it's difficult for people who see these things, in a blaring obvious way all the time. You have some sort of ethos about finding somebody)or maybe several) who you can be completely emotionally intimate with but noone even comes close, your just different. I always have the suspicion that some people are just looking for what makes them happy, a lot of the time that just means convincing yourself that this is what you want, this is my other half, this is my favourite career path...........actually I did win that argument because ...(some twisted bull****). People aren't perfect, they mislead themselves, their all hypocritical and all their really looking for is a little room to grow their ego.

On the sex front I completely agree, sex is something you want, you should try and get some.

LegacyUser

Talliesin wrote: »

You really sound like you expect somebody somewhere to be perfect.

When your friends turn to you for advice, as you say above they often do, do you take the fact that everyone is only human into account?

If not, your advice probably always sucks and you should just shut up the next time. If so you need to live your own words a bit.

Well I tell them to weigh things out and do the right thing. That they need to take a step back and consider things and that honesty is always much easier than the alternative. I will keep on telling the truth from my view if they continue to ask.

spinandscribble wrote:

don't play games. if a girl needs you to mess them around for them to be interested in you, shes not really a good match is she?

Well that's exactly the way I view it. I've always discouraged game-playing and it's a particular peeve of mine. It's not as if I couldn't have copped off with someone at this stage but I actually do need to like someone first. Of course it's hard to find someone I like enough with the whole 'game' that is our socialising culture.

Again, as if I need to justify this to you guys. I was 20 when I broke up with her, I'm not still in love with her although of course I still care very much for the girl. Breaking up with her is right. I can't bare her presence in my life at the moment with how pathetic I feel.

As for the calling her a whore, I merely only feel that in my bitter bitter mind. I know she's entitled to do what she wants but I really can't be dealing with it, I've never appreciated the thought of any man touching the only girl I've ever loved. I did right by myself and her so stop trying to make me feel bad for it (Yes, I know you only have my OP to go by but a lot of you are jumping to conclusions.)

How am I acting like a kid, may I ask? This is a thread on the internet about something I don't feel comfortable talking to anyone about in person, I'm not parading the streets with a sign reading: Bitches aint sh*t!

Again, the only real offering I've had (grow up could hardly be considered constructive) is that I'm not telling girls who are pretty much strangers that I'm quite attracted to them, perpetuating this whole 'women are the prize' thing. As for the sex>love well, I'm well aware of that but I've heard that it's quite normal for a man of my age to be getting a bit more relief than I am now.

Silverfish

Bitterguy wrote: »

I suppose what pisses me off is that any semi-attractive girl simply has to go out to have 20 offers of sex and the chance that they'll meet Mr Right. They don't have to do any work.

And what about semi-attractive men?
Probably no different for them really.

Bitterguy wrote: »

One of my friends actually broke it down for me the other night. The difference between me and my friend was that he gives them a little attention and then doesn't give them any and this apparently, 'drives girls mad'. She said that I'm too nice, I give too much attention which isn't sexy and that I never strike when the iron's hot. What the f*ck am I supposed to think of that!?

You are supposed to think 'I won't give them too much attention, and I will strike while the iron is hot'.
You're waiting so long that these women lose interest and move on, then you blame them.
Maybe make a move sooner?

LegacyUser

Silverfish wrote: »

You are supposed to think 'I won't give them too much attention, and I will strike while the iron is hot'.
You're waiting so long that these women lose interest and move on, then you blame them.
Maybe make a move sooner?

I don't tend to think of things in those terms... I tend to just try and converse y'know? I don't have any gameplans? How am I meant to know when a good time to try and kiss a girl is? Or if she even likes me? At this stage I can't even look at them in the eyes when I'm talking to them.

pisslips

Silverfish wrote: »

And what about semi-attractive men?
Probably no different for them really.

Not really, a woman just has to look pretty and wait. A man has to engage a woman, also he has to give the impression that he's somewhat reasonable and well balanced, reasonably self-confident and interesting, has a life.

A good-looking woman could have the brains of a tuna and the personality of a cheese grater, she will still get as much sex as she wants. But she doesn't want what she can have.

Putting the pussy on a pedestal.
What a phrrase!

Silverfish

Bitterguy wrote: »

I don't tend to think of things in those terms... I tend to just try and converse y'know? I don't have any gameplans? How am I meant to know when a good time to try and kiss a girl is? Or if she even likes me? At this stage I can't even look at them in the eyes when I'm talking to them.

You ask them out. Just you and them. If she says yes, chances are she likes you. You get to know one another a bit better over the course of the night (I would recommend not mentioning whores or cockteases) and then, if you both still seem to be getting on by the end of the night, you arrange to do it again.

pisslips wrote: »

A man has to engage a woman, also he has to give the impression that he's somewhat reasonable and well balanced, reasonably self-confident and interesting, has a life.

Exactly what I'm trying to get across to the OP here.

spinandscribble

look op not every girl wants to play games. i know plenty of women that don't and will say bye bye to any guy that tries that. just calm down and let something happen naturally. don't be afraid to ask a girl out, i'm guessing thats why it takes you so long to ask them out and then they're gone.

copacetic

pisslips wrote: »

A man has to engage a woman, also he has to give the impression that he's somewhat reasonable and well balanced, reasonably self-confident and interesting, has a life.

and often we have to do that before we actually open our mouths, or we are on the backfoot straight away!
Luckily I have the engaging, reasonable, well balanced, self confident and interesting approach walk down.










(It's a bit like the John Cleese one, except a little more hip roll)

K-9

OP, please stop contact with that girl. You are looking backwards, not forwards.

LegacyUser

A lot of what you say about women is actually spot on.

Your problem is you are landing in the friends zone with women and this is notoriously difficult to get out of. And once you are in there, women will treat you, in your own mind, very very harshly. You will do things for them, and they will barely even say thanks.

You have acknowledged yourself that you are too shy to go for it with women, this is the reason why you are feeling how you feel now.

You are correct about women for the most part but you are chanelling your energy in the wrong way. You need to channel this energy into going out and meeting women. If you have your eye on any of these women "friends" forget about it because you are in damage control and it would be easier to get a new girl all together. Good news is that they are everywhere.

If you want to change, you have to change. If you continue to do what you have always done, you will continue to get what you have always gotten.

Macha

wow100 and bitterguy thanks for the incredible generalisations. Not all women are like this and you'd do well not to tar all women with the same brush.

wow100, you think the OP is right about women?? So he has a few personally unfortunate experiences, largely as a result of his own behaviour and now all women are the same?? Generalising out from personal experience is one of the most basic and common uses of flawed logic.

I'd say exactly the same thing if someone came on here ranting about all men being b*stards. It's not fair and it's not true.

b3t4

Just so you know BitterGuy, you are in no way a 'nice' guy.

My advise to you is to grow up a bit and realise the people are human and inherently flawed. People make bad decisions, people make mistakes and some people do not take perfectly good advise (I mean look at your reaction to the advise given so far!)

You can blame everyone else till the cows come home and remain as you are. Or you can realise how you're interacting with the world is causing you the problems you have.

What you are doing is not working therefore change it. It's that simple really.

A.

pookie82

Silverfish wrote: »

Just to point out the hypocrisy - you left her for some girl based on physical attraction. I fail to see how your gf is a 'whore' when its you that dumped her.



Either they're your friends, or they are ' f*cking morons'.
You start out by saying they're beautiful, fun.... then tear them apart. These are not friends, these are girls you are hanging around in the hope they notice you, possibly the same way you chased that girl with a boyfriend.
Either you're a friend, or you're trying to get with them. Can't blame them for you have ulterior motives for the friendship.





To be honest, you don't sound it so far.



So hold on, you're afraid to make a move, and you won't make a move, yet its their fault for eventually being with someone else?
If some guy refused to let me know he was interested, I'd assume he wasn't and be on my way. It'd be bad form of him to throw a hissy fit because I didn't somehow 'know' he was interested.


No you didn't. If you loved her, you wouldn't have left her for a girl you yourself described as a 'cocktease'.


I think you need to look at what YOU'VE done wrong. You're passing the blame onto your ex (whore) the girl you chased (Cocktease) your female friends (F*cking morons) .... I mean, they can't all be wrong, and you right, surely?

If you look realistically and rationally at how YOU have ended up in this situation from the choices YOU have made (dumping your ex that you 'loved', being afraid to tell girls you're interested, etc) then maybe you might be able to isolate the issue, and move on.

I'm all out of thanks but i think this is very well put.

However, the OP clearly has some serious psychological issues when it comes to women, brought on by regret over leaving a long term love for a "cocktease" who was never going to put out and by seeing his female friends go through their fair share of guys who are all wrong for them.

Most people will tell you it's your own fault for leaving a good thing for the promise of a roll in the hay with a hottie. You're now digusted with woman kind as the new girl didn't want to know, and the old one moved on. But it has far more to do with your bad decisions than theirs. You're the problem here. You couldn't have your cake and eat it so not you're horribly bitter and blaming the ladies.

To be honest I would suggest before you even dream of meeting someone else that you sort these "whore" and "cocktease" issues out. have a chat to a counsellor, or someone who you think will understand. So you made a few mistakes - haven't we all. Now own up to it and learn from it rather than letting it embitter you towards the opposite sex. I hope you can come out the other side and find a healthy relationship.

Catari Jaguar

wow100 wrote: »

Your problem is you are landing in the friends zone with women and this is notoriously difficult to get out of. And once you are in there, women will treat you, in your own mind, very very harshly. You will do things for them, and they will barely even say thanks.

You're only doing things for them because you want to get the leg over. You're bitter because they don't want you to. Maybe if you stopped seeing women as only there for shagging and maybe that they actually are people you'd have less of a "problem"

Crazy stuff

LegacyUser

b3t4 wrote: »

Just so you know BitterGuy, you are in no way a 'nice' guy.

Wow, what an unbelievably stupid comment. If I were to judge you on that post I could call you stupid. I'm not going to because I know you don't know me and therefore haven't a clue.

Here's a suggestion, how about the girls who have no idea what I'm talking about and are simply posting to 'stick up for women' just don't. Of course I'm going to break up with a girl who I don't love enough to stay with, giving up a good thing? You think I simply saw another girl, popped a boner and packed my bags? I did not cheat when things became strained and the other girl was pretty much offering what I thought was something special.

It's not the f*cking issue. As for the cocktease, well that's simply said out of anger in hindsight. I was spending a lot of time with this girl for a couple of months after I broke it off with the first girl, we actually got on very very well. I respect her, I think she's a great girl. I'm just p*ssed off at how she facilitated things. She played me for a fool, I take it that she didn't intend to f*ck me the way she did but god damn if she didn't turn me into a complete mess for a year. I don't say these things about them to anyone. Just bottle it up inside, ya know? Because if I were to say these things I'd get slandered by a bunch of uppity cows more concerned with being painted in a favourable light than actually accepting that I'm pretty messed up over something here.

Lil Kitten wrote:

You're only doing things for them because you want to get the leg over. You're bitter because they don't want you to. Maybe if you stopped seeing women as only there for shagging and maybe that they actually are people you'd have less of a "problem"

I've already said that I do no such thing. Read the thread before posting please. I used them as an example. I have friends, some of them are really great people, but I can't get over how much easier everything is for them. It's my sexual tension that's the cause of this angst but I know that the loneliness runs deeper.

Thanks wow100.

Begob

Bitterguy wrote: »

Wow, what an unbelievably stupid comment. If I were to judge you on that post I could call you stupid. I'm not going to because I know you don't know me and therefore haven't a clue.

Here's a suggestion, how about the girls who have no idea what I'm talking about and are simply posting to 'stick up for women' just don't. Of course I'm going to break up with a girl who I don't love enough to stay with, giving up a good thing? You think I simply saw another girl, popped a boner and packed my bags? I did not cheat when things became strained and the other girl was pretty much offering what I thought was something special.

You are not wrong there.
The first thing I'd advise you to do where theres no kids and you don't want to be with someone anymore (for whatever reason) is to move on.

It's not the f*cking issue. As for the cocktease, well that's simply said out of anger in hindsight. I was spending a lot of time with this girl for a couple of months after I broke it off with the first girl, we actually got on very very well. I respect her, I think she's a great girl. I'm just p*ssed off at how she facilitated things. She played me for a fool, I take it that she didn't intend to f*ck me the way she did but god damn if she didn't turn me into a complete mess for a year. I don't say these things about them to anyone. Just bottle it up inside, ya know? Because if I were to say these things I'd get slandered by a bunch of uppity cows more concerned with being painted in a favourable light than actually accepting that I'm pretty messed up over something here.

Whilst your language is understandably animated given what you've been through ( Emotional turmoil ) You'd be better off relaxing before typing and being less animated.You'll get better advice as people won't misunderstand you as much.

I've already said that I do no such thing. Read the thread before posting please. I used them as an example. I have friends, some of them are really great people, but I can't get over how much easier everything is for them. It's my sexual tension that's the cause of this angst but I know that the loneliness runs deeper.

Thanks wow100.

You don't know about other people only what you see.
Some of your friends might be just as anguished as you and you just haven't picked up on it.
What you see is not always what you get.

On the substantive issue,here's my 2 cent.
There are how many billion women on this planet? How many do you look at and go Wow when you walk down Grafton st or on a summers day in college?
Plenty I should imagine.
Therefore I say to you that,your pain is a temporary learning experience.
You are capable of meeting and getting on with many of these beautifull people that make you go wow.
Relax the head and recognise your experience for the learning one that is is.
Loads of people have been in the same boat.

LegacyUser

wow100 wrote: »

A lot of what you say about women is actually spot on.

Your problem is you are landing in the friends zone with women and this is notoriously difficult to get out of. And once you are in there, women will treat you, in your own mind, very very harshly. You will do things for them, and they will barely even say thanks.

You have acknowledged yourself that you are too shy to go for it with women, this is the reason why you are feeling how you feel now.

You are correct about women for the most part but you are chanelling your energy in the wrong way. You need to channel this energy into going out and meeting women. If you have your eye on any of these women "friends" forget about it because you are in damage control and it would be easier to get a new girl all together. Good news is that they are everywhere.

If you want to change, you have to change. If you continue to do what you have always done, you will continue to get what you have always gotten.

put it this way when you hear ''i can tell you anything'' or ''your like a brother to me'' you know your fcuked-look its human nature a man can never be friends with a girl without sex crossing their minds once-we always want something more so i cant blame ya for wanting to get the leg over with your friends if thats even the case!!

i think if you get into a relationship the bitterness will eventually subside but as for now try not to dwell on it i know its hard not to think about it but put it this way while you have been moping around thinking about it you lost out on time that you could have spent chasing girls!!

im just trying to help so sorry if its not helping at all!

Silverfish

Bitterguy wrote: »

Wow, what an unbelievably stupid comment. If I were to judge you on that post I could call you stupid. I'm not going to because I know you don't know me and therefore haven't a clue.

Here's a suggestion, how about the girls who have no idea what I'm talking about and are simply posting to 'stick up for women' just don't. Of course I'm going to break up with a girl who I don't love enough to stay with, giving up a good thing? You think I simply saw another girl, popped a boner and packed my bags? I did not cheat when things became strained and the other girl was pretty much offering what I thought was something special.

That's fair enough. What I think you need to accept though, is that what happened was not really any fault of theirs, it was a fault of yours.
You clearly misread what she was offering.

Bitterguy wrote: »

It's not the f*cking issue. As for the cocktease, well that's simply said out of anger in hindsight. I was spending a lot of time with this girl for a couple of months after I broke it off with the first girl, we actually got on very very well. I respect her, I think she's a great girl. I'm just p*ssed off at how she facilitated things. She played me for a fool, I take it that she didn't intend to f*ck me the way she did but god damn if she didn't turn me into a complete mess for a year. I don't say these things about them to anyone. Just bottle it up inside, ya know?

Well, it was a horrible situation to end up in, and it would mess you up. But you learn from it and you move on. Looks like by posting here that's what you're trying to do, and that's a step in the right direction.

Bitterguy wrote: »

Because if I were to say these things I'd get slandered by a bunch of uppity cows more concerned with being painted in a favourable light than actually accepting that I'm pretty messed up over something here.

I do fail to see how girls defending themselves from attacks about stuff they've never done but are being told they do from your generalisations are 'uppity cows'. If I said 'This one guy cheated on me, therefore ALL MEN are bastards".... would you try and defend yourself, or say 'Yeah, its true, all of us, every one of us, are bastards'

Bitterguy wrote: »

I've already said that I do no such thing. Read the thread before posting please. I used them as an example. I have friends, some of them are really great people, but I can't get over how much easier everything is for them. It's my sexual tension that's the cause of this angst but I know that the loneliness runs deeper.

Thanks wow100.

And this I feel is the problem. You don't see the connection between your dislike of women and your inability to get one. I'm surprised you even want to get one, since they're so bad.
And of course you're going to get a load of lads with similar experiences slapping your back and telling you you're dead right. No matter what opinion people have, they can always find people to surround themselves with to confirm that opinion. So its about breaking that.
Perhaps they're all just men who have made bad choices, and chased a woman who wasn't right for them? That doesn't make the woman a bitch, it makes him a bad judge of what's suitable for him.

I still think your friend may have been right. Don't feed these women attention, then complain that they take that attention.
Don't have ulterior motives for your friendships. If you're interested, let it be known straight away, ask them out (not like, 5 at once or anything though) don't be friends with them in the hope something happens.
They'll assume you just want to be friends, and will do just that, and can't be blamed for thinking that's all you want.

Macha

Bitterguy wrote: »

Here's a suggestion, how about the girls who have no idea what I'm talking about and are simply posting to 'stick up for women' just don't. Of course I'm going to break up with a girl who I don't love enough to stay with, giving up a good thing? You think I simply saw another girl, popped a boner and packed my bags? I did not cheat when things became strained and the other girl was pretty much offering what I thought was something special.

Did you actually come in here for advice or for backup for your attitude? You type in a thread title "my ever-growing mysogyny", admit that you think this is an unhealthy attitude and then snap at people who tell you that not all women are the same?? Then you thank the one poster who agrees with your ridiculous generalisations. Either accept the advice that has been given to you free of charge, or disagree politely.

Bitterguy wrote: »

It's not the f*cking issue. As for the cocktease, well that's simply said out of anger in hindsight. I was spending a lot of time with this girl for a couple of months after I broke it off with the first girl, we actually got on very very well. I respect her, I think she's a great girl. I'm just p*ssed off at how she facilitated things. She played me for a fool, I take it that she didn't intend to f*ck me the way she did but god damn if she didn't turn me into a complete mess for a year. I don't say these things about them to anyone. Just bottle it up inside, ya know? Because if I were to say these things I'd get slandered by a bunch of uppity cows more concerned with being painted in a favourable light than actually accepting that I'm pretty messed up over something here.

Your clearly have misgynistic tendencies, as has been pointed out with the use of the phrases "cocktease" and "whore". Whatever state of mind you were in at the time is irrelevant. I fight with my boyfriend and say things I shouldn't but there are some things that I never never say. Why? Because they don't ever cross my mind.

"Uppity cows?" Do you not see? Do you not GET it? THIS is your problem. Language like this is indicative of your attitude towards women. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a woman pointing out that its unfair and invalid to paint all women in a negative light. You have to ask yourself why it annoys YOU so much.

Bitterguy wrote: »

I've already said that I do no such thing. Read the thread before posting please. I used them as an example. I have friends, some of them are really great people, but I can't get over how much easier everything is for them. It's my sexual tension that's the cause of this angst but I know that the loneliness runs deeper.

Look, I take your word for it. You have been treated very badly by this girl you went after. You're also frustrated that you're not getting anywhere with other girls that you're interested. But you can't control the behaviour of other people. Full stop.

So have a look at your own behaviour. It doesn't say much that you went after a girl in a long-term relationship. Naturally she is the person who has the loyalties to a partner but it still isn't a nice thing to do. Also, if someone is treating you badly it's only because you are letting them. Easier said that done but really the best thing to do is get these people out of your life. This applies to friends and girlfriends.

But you HAVE to stop looking at these girls as representing all women but as individuals. They are plenty of girls out there who would be horrified at how these girls are acting. And to be honest, there is the age thing as well. I had a few friends who would treat guys very bady a few years ago but don't do it anymore: they grew out of it.

You must seriously look at this misogyny of yours and even go to a therapist about it (seriously, lots of people go to therapy, they just don't talk about it) because when you eventually do find a girlfriend, there is a very strong possibility that it will have a negative impact on your relationship.

Annie Bananie

We are who we are and we are all different.
OP, you cant change who you are for any girl, you can just wait until you find one that likes you for you.

Just as you have noticed that girls think highly of themselves and cant be with a guy for whatever silly reason, you do the same. You believe you are a nice guy and that you deserve a nice girl. I think Im a nice girl and deserve a nice guy. That is what we all do really. We all want what's best for us

Yes there are both girls and guys that has criterias for a bf/gf that we will not always agree with. (and you say a lot of things in your posts which I dont agree with ) But it only tells you that that particular girl aint for you.

Yes it hurts when an ex-partner finds someone new, no matter who broke it off. Its just something we have to get over. You will some day. Probably when you gotten yourself a new gf. Forget about your ex and move on, try to find the girl that loves you for you

LegacyUser

I appreciate the change of tone, I'm sorry for reacting badly but I felt I was being treated unfairly and unhelpfully by a few of the above posts, I understand that you only have to go by my OP. Those things are hard to write you know..

I never said that all women the same, I don't think I did. I think I'm just more annoyed at the fact that in society guys have to go out on such limbs. I guess that is just the way it goes and I'll have to work on my own confidence, hah, something I've been trying to do all my life.

As for therapy. Erm. I don't think I'll waste the cash I don't have.

I don't know, look it just all boils up inside and I can't say these things and I feel horrible for even thinking them, especially when I'm told so on the internet. But all I have to go on is my experience. The other girl, well she had told me she'd broken up with the guy when we got somewhat hot and bothered. As things go, I really don't know how to conduct myself. I've only ever really asked for a girl's number once or twice.. Neither of the times I called because I didn't think I was in any state to meet up with them.

I think I'm aware of how much I am to blame for my own problems. It's why I try to be so nice to people, because nice things happen to nice people. I don't know if I'm doing a very good job of it.

Macha

Well you're right about guys being expected to make the first move a lot of the time. But things are changing and it also changes as you get older. I'm 26 and a lot of my girlfriends would be happy to make the first move. Plus in Ireland we don't really do the dating thing, which is a real shame.

It is important to make the distinction between making the first move and doing constant favours for girls. If you like a girl, and get the feeling that she likes you, go for it but don't hang around and let her use you in the hope that she'll turn around one day & decide that she wants to get together with you. Girls will respect you more for it. And besides, do you really want to be with a girl who does that?? (Putting aside the sexual frustration of course )

The best way to meet people is through other people. If you're still in college, its a great way to meet people, through sports, societies, parties etc. The more you branch out the more likely you are to meet someone you like & likes you. Also, you will be able to see that not all girls behave like the ones you're friends with at the moment. Most importantly, have fun! Relax, don't take things so seriously. You can worry about serious relationships and all that malarkey when you're in your late 20s/early 30s.

In relation to how to approach girls, you should have a look around the Ladies Lounge - it will give you a good grounding on how us ladies think! (not that we're all the same of course ). There's a thread on there at the moment about why girls don't go after guys. There was also a thread a while back about what girls found attractive in a guy they didn't know. Most girls said: sense of humour, and someone who approaches them in some sort of context so not walking up to them in a bar, but as a friend of a friend.

And finally on therapy. All I can say is you don't know what you're missing. You find out so much about yourself, why things bother you, why you do x, y, z. And if you're in college, they should have a free service. If not, you can usually find a therapist that will do it at a reduced price.

Good luck

Marksie

Bitterguy wrote: »

As for therapy. Erm. I don't think I'll waste the cash I don't have..

Well it may be money well spent after looking at this thread.

Bitterguy wrote: »

I think I'm aware of how much I am to blame for my own problems. It's why I try to be so nice to people, because nice things happen to nice people. I don't know if I'm doing a very good job of it.

Now being nice and BIENG nice are two different things.

One stems from attempting to cover your real feelings, which are still bubblnig underneath and liekly to resurface. Your simply glosspainting your issues with a thin veneer in the beliefs that it will help. In fact its a truism that we are responsible for our own happiness and unhappiness, and that includes all aspects. So it may seem strange to say that you are responsible for the hurt that the women caused you, but at the very least you facilitated it.... thus all your attitudes are stemming from your own internal attitude.

BEING nice is teh reverse of teh doin. When you have explored and overcome your issues, or at least know fully where old behaviour patterns stem from, then you can move on...a much more sustainable proposition.

At the moment you are carrying around internally all this bile and anger whihc is being expressed outwards at wopmen. When if you really look..they are due to negatives emotions associated with yourself.

So do rethink the idea of therapy

Wibbs

I'll go out on my own limb and disagree over a need for therapy in your case. You seem measured enough and unless this gets to the point where it's actually affecting you and those arround you, then therapy sounds a tad like overkill tbh.

Look you had a few bad experiences and you made a few mistakes. We all do. Shít happens and often we bring it down on ourselves and it's how we deal with that and more importantly learn from that that matters. It's that which will define your life and relationships in the future.

Which ever way you look at it, you've been knocked off balance by one particular aspect of your life, IE love and women and relationships. These things don't come with manuals(thank god) and we kinda build our own manual in our head. Already in our head is a romantic notion built up through a mixture of expectation, media and our own inexperience. Because that's not really based in reality, it can come crashing down all too easily.

A common reaction to that crash is cynicism to one degree or other. All I can advise is that it will pass if you make the effort to see each new woman as a person, not as a type or a reflection of what has happened before. Yes some women are muppets, most others are not, but just not for you and vice versa(same goes for women dealing with men). Some you will meet who will be right for you. Even then you or she may screw up, but the journey will be worth it one way or the other. At some point one will stick, but only if you have grown in yourself and grown in acceptance. Keep that foremost in your mind and if and when negativity creeps in, remind yourself that this too will balance out.

Hope that helps anyhoo.

pisslips

Right so, you just sound like every other guy who goes through **** but usually gets over it sooner or just doesn't voice it.
I can't believe people are suggesting therapy because the guy is being slightly negative, I mean big deal.

This reminds me of a little gripe of my own when I was younger.All through my teens I was told that girls mature emotionally much faster than boys, yet I found it funny that they were the ones running of with guys who were much older than them and publicising the fact.As much as they proclaimed that guys their own age weren't mature enough, it was plainly obvious they wanted attention/popularity from their peers. what was also clear was that the guys they were seeing would have trouble with hot women their own age.Is that mature?

Yet when a guy uses a flippant adjective about some girl who mislead him, he's somehow disturbed, needs therapy and was described as a child by someone.

Also, while the advice given about being a sociable nice guy is good with regards attracting women, every man and his dog knows this.....i.e. I could be a drug dealing rapist and convince some girl that I'm really a nice guy ergo it means **** all.And in fact the guys who go out there with a ''game'' are the one's admired most by the women who would condemn this guy and his honest negativity.

Right we can all avoid being cynical because we believe it's not constructive..........It can be constructive though. It's real, let the guy be negative without claiming he's mentally ill.
By that philosophy we should all take drugs and be as happy as possible.There has to be more to life than gratification.

If anything is immature it's being obsessed with image and social status.
What the hell are you lonely for?
who ever told you that you needed someone else to be happy?

There's always sex though, can't get around that one.

Macha

Wibbs wrote: »

I'll go out on my own limb and disagree over a need for therapy in your case. You seem measured enough and unless this gets to the point where it's actually affecting you and those arround you, then therapy sounds a tad like overkill tbh.

TBH I recommended therapy in part because I think almost everyone would benefit from it. Seriously. I went and in the process, found out how messed up each member of my family and ex boyfriends were. And they aren't anything out of the norm at all. I even learned small things like how to have a proper disscussion & stop the arguments...and it worked. Most people are recommended to go on a pre-marriage course, which talks about a lot of this stuff. I say, why wait until you're getting married and why wait til you're in a relationship?

Everybody takes different things on in their lives through experiences, parents etc. In addition, the OP talks about an underlying problem of low-self esteem. Plus the OP is in college and can get it cheap/free. So no harm done.

One other thing, as a woman, I have enjoyed/been subjected to A LOT of person analysis (ie chatting about friends, boyfs, etc). In genenral, I don't think guys do it as much and would be another reason for going. I just need to pick up the phone to my girlfriends to get a mini-psychoanalysis session!!

Marksie

Wibbs wrote: »

I'll go out on my own limb and disagree over a need for therapy in your case. You seem measured enough and unless this gets to the point where it's actually affecting you and those arround you, then therapy sounds a tad like overkill tbh.
.

There is therapy and therapy wibbs.
The OP has already stated what his issues are and that they are growing. So it is affecting his mindstate.

While ist often the hardest to look at oneself and see what is truly going on inside, its harder to admit that you need help to overcome them and/or accept their root cause.

Further his thoughts are influenced by his own issues. In this case a neutral third party with the right training and experience may be able to help the OP to put things in some sort of perspective.
If you like, viewing it as a means of first venting, then being open to a different outlook on why this is happening. I dont believe "therapy" per se is a magic wand. But may be a means of giving the OP the glimmerings he needs to overcome his issues... by the simplest and most powerful means, his own thoughts and inner awareness being changed by himself.... he may just need a little nudge or hand on the elbow in support

not yet

Bitterguy wrote: »

I'm getting more and more bitter and I know it's an unhealthy attitude and I really need some help pulling my head around this.

I was going out with a girl for three years. During that time it felt like, you know, 'true love'. Towards the end of our relationship I was getting stronger and stronger feelings for another girl. Through lack of maturity, I ended it and tried, in vain, to pursue this cocktease with a long term boyfriend. This tore me up, she kept making it look like it could happen and then would deny me. I was becoming obsessed. I had given up an incredibly tender and close relationship and was simply a gushing void. My college work suffered as did my mental health for about a year.

I'm over this girl now, but I resent the f*ck out of her. Don't get me wrong, I know that I'm 100% more responsible but I can't stop being so angry at how she treated the situation. Now I haven't had sex in over a year. I'm a 22 year old healthy male. I've pretty low self-esteem but I've mates who are definitely less appealing than me that get a lot of action.. Low self-esteem is pretty unattractive. I know this. Working on it..

The ex-girlfriend and I have stayed friendly... I broke it off and I know that it hurt her. Now I'm pissed at how, a year on, she's over it and I'm not. I don't want to be friends with her anymore. It pains me to think of her being sexually active and I still dwell on the memories of us and have no memories to take their place. I think of her as a whore, it really disgusts me even though I know she wouldn't be as promiscuous as most girls her age. She doesn't help matters by thinking that I've any obligation to be her emotional crutch. She knows me too well.. intimately as well. She's always wants to know what's going on in my love life and seeing as how there is none to talk of, I feel 6 inches tall.

The one thing that I'm pretty happy with in my life is the amount of friends I have. Both male and female. I've noticed that I have a lot more female friends than a lot of my male friends. I guess it's because I'm a pretty sensitive guy. This isn't attractive either in my experience. The problem is how many of these girls I would give the world for. Beautiful, interesting or just really fun girls, some are all of them, yet I don't think one of them would even think of me in this way. I'm not sure if it's that I'm unattractive, because they don't want to risk our friendship or because these girls know me well enough to know how f*cked up I am.

I'm f*cking sick of it. I'm sick of being good enough to help them out whenever they need me when they're willing to get on top of strangers in a club. Sick of just giving logical advice when they have their stupid f*cking problems. Like when they're going out with a guy that just doesn't deserve them, I tell them, I'm not trying to sabotage anything, when they're being unreasonable with the guy I tell them that too. It happens so often, when happiness is within their grasp and they act like f*cking morons.

I resent them so much. They have no idea, men just line up for them and they act like such idiots. Noone is trying to be with me. I'm so f*cking lonely, and probably more critical at this stage. so f*cking horny. I'm jerking a good 3 or 4 times a day.

I'm actually a nice guy, I really go out of my way to help any of my friends, the guys always appreciate it and the girls, for the most, don't.

It's happened countlessly in the last couple of months, I meet a girl somehow, we meet up, or text or bebo. I start to think that they might very well be interested but am too scared to make any sort of move because it's actually that hard to believe they actually are. Then things go cold and next thing I know, they're going out with someone else.

I'm starting to think that these girls don't deserve what I do for them, I mean I'll always be friendly to everyone I know but I don't think I should give any more than I have to. I mean, even when I read the posts by some women on boards, it drives me nuts! They won't go with a guy who's too short, or doesn't earn enough or they're complaining how all the good men are taken. God, these women have some egos. They hold themselves as prizes and why shouldn't they? They're used to getting to pick and choose. Then they complain about the blokes they choose. YOU CHOSE HIM OVER PLENTY OF LOVELY SINGLE GUYS!

I have really gotten so cynical as of late, and I know this is actually harming my chances of getting back in the game. Then again I think it's so pointless. I loved my ex, she was smart, pretty and we knew eachother inside out. Now I just about hate her. No girl I've met, (apart from the other girl) has captivated me as much. I need sex but I want a meaningful relationship.

I'm anticipating a complete slagging too about how I'm actually a douchebag/loser for feeling this way but I'm putting this down in the hopes of someone actually giving me some constructive advice because I don't think I'm wrong at this stage... Like I know my attitude is wrong but I think a lot of what I've said about women is spot on.

Get a [EMAIL="f@cking"]f@cking[/EMAIL] life and stop whinging like a broken record. Move on, you and you alone [EMAIL="f@cked"]f@cked[/EMAIL] up what you had deal with it.