Incredible Hosting Bill

C.D.

Firstly, the background to the story:

I have been a Register 365 customer for a year now, with a package that allows me 50GB of transfer (monthly) and 5GB of disk space. I host 2 websites and a small FTP server for my gaming clan, they all generate 1-4GB of traffic a month and my disk space usage is never above 3GB.

I am a student and have a student credit card (limit €600). I had been living in London (internship) and my accommodation bill was going to be €1,000; so I "put" €1,000 on my card so I'd have a temporary limit of >€1,000 to pay for my accom. I've had my credit card for 3 years, paid in full and the most I've ever spent in one go is €400.

Today I logged into my online banking account to see Register 365 had billed me for €1,080. Upon logging into my hosting account, I'm told the bill is for "Usage fee for extra 892.9 GB above pre-paid 50 GB of traffic".

Effectively they are saying that every file I had hosted was downloaded so many times, it used up 950 GB of bandwidth. My weblogs show my usage has been normal, so I suspect it is a technical error.

However; Register 365 did not once contact me to say I was near my limit, let alone 19x over it. I rang my bank (call back Monday) who also did not contact me to query why there was such a large transaction on my account.

Long story short, I've lodged a complaint with both my credit card provider and my host, but I have to contact both Monday. With regards to consumer law, is this small claims stuff, ombudsman or do I need a solicitor? Can anyone recommend a solicitor to even talk to so I know where I stand legally? I'd prefer to process this formally so I'm not given the run-around. At the moment the money is in my host's account and I expect the bill from the place I stayed to arrive in the next 2 weeks (which I can't pay as I simply don't have the money). Any and all advice appreciated.

jhegarty

Did you check your hosting control panel to see where the data was used ?

tricky D

Checked your access logs?

Jonathan

Were you slashdotted or make the front page of digg?

jhegarty

thinking about it... did anyone apart from you have upload ftp details for the site ?

it may have been used as porn/warez archive is someone dogey got one

eth0_

The OP said "My weblogs show my usage has been normal, so I suspect it is a technical error."

If you have a copy of the logs then surely Register 365 will have to refund you.

C.D.

Hey, just to clarify, I have logs of my 2 websites but no FTP logs. I can't access a breakdown of the bandwidth usage from my CP as the bill is for the last period, not the current one. I know myself that there was nothing unusual uploaded to the FTP server and the largest file was ~700MB so it would have had to have been downloaded >1,300 times.. which is highly unlikely. Bandwidth usage for the current period is normal.

miju

Im with hosting 365 and you do realise that bandwidth goes both ways ie: H365 count anything uploaded to your site via HTTP or FTP means as well as stuff download from it.

In the hsphere cpanel there are different sections to see th bandwiths

MOD EDIT by RT2: OP was confused about the actual host - it is actually Register 365

damnyanks

How much is your typical bill ? Since you get 50GB you'd imagine they would be a bit more easy going.

axer

C.D. wrote: »

Hey, just to clarify, I have logs of my 2 websites but no FTP logs. I can't access a breakdown of the bandwidth usage from my CP as the bill is for the last period, not the current one. I know myself that there was nothing unusual uploaded to the FTP server and the largest file was ~700MB so it would have had to have been downloaded >1,300 times.. which is highly unlikely. Bandwidth usage for the current period is normal.

Could anybody download from your FTP server? Is it possible that someone posted a link to that file on a forum or something resulting in it being downloaded many times?

C.D.

Typical usage is 2-4GB. Myself, my sibling and 4 others have access to it; it is passworded. Even if somebody else was using it, they would need to download the content on it 30 times every day for a month to rack up that usage.

It couldn't be upload as nobody has a connection that could upload those quantities, we are all on residential connections.

Ian Beale

Hear anything from 365?

C.D.

So I rang them on Sunday, the guy I was speaking to was friendly, agreed that the activity was highly unusual and had a quick look into it. He said that web traffic did not account for it and they (himself and another cs guy) could not access a breakdown of bandwidth usage. I was told that an "engineer" would need to look at the server, so somebody would contact me on Monday.

This morning at 11:22 I rang again just to follow it up, I was told I'd get a call by the end of the day.

Arrive home at 19:15, still no call, so I ring them again. Different person again, who also agrees it is very unusual. Said he will pass it onto his manager who will chase the issue with engineering and call me by 12:30 tomorrow.

My bank are very reluctant to process a chargeback, they have said that I should exhaust avenues with 365 first before doing so. Still early days, but I really do hope I don't end up being "passed around".

I've kept records of who, when and what has been talked about. Any further suggestions?

axer

Have you actually lodged a ticket? If not then it might be a good idea to since it will show up in their support queue then.

C.D.

I have idd, it was only replied to when I rang and quoted the ticket number. Due to some obscure problem I can't view the ticket, was onto to phone support about that too, they got it working for about 30 mins and now I can't view it anymore ^^, so I'm just going to stick to phone calls!

C.D.

Further update: No phone call as expected.

I rang technical support and was speaking to Jamie. I was told (again) that their bandwidth reading is accurate etc. etc. He told me that it had been escalated with the engineers and then said:

1) He could not tell me if they would be able to supply me with server logs

2) He told me he could not tell me if they were actually investigating it futher

3) He could not give a me a timeframe in which to expect their reply

4) He refused to put me onto his manager, saying he was unavailable (even though he had been talking to him 5 minutes earlier about me). I offered to wait but was told that was not an option.

Eventually I was put back onto customer care, who took me details, assured me that engineering were looking at it. Nikki was the first person to give (some) good news- the issue is being chased with engineering, she suggested that the money could be refunded temporarily till the matter is sorted and assured me she would call me back in the next 24 hours.

I discussed this with everyone in register 365:

1) My weblogs show no unusual bandwidth

2) Obvious culprit is my FTP server, but only 5 people have access and their lines would not be able to rack up that bandwidth.

3) If the reading is genuine it must mean my server was hacked which raises the issue:

-> 1) Why does register 365 not have protocols in place to protect their customers?

-> 2) Why do they not inform their customers if they are nearing their limit?

-> 3) Why do they not inform their customers if they are 20x over their limit?

Finally is it legal for them to bill me and not issue an invoice? I received nothing relating to the charges- had to initiate contact myself. Also can they bill my like this and not provide proof of usage (server logs)? Can they just claim and used that bandwidth and not offer proof?

Jonathan

The whole world has access to your ftp if you CHMOD it to 777.

Someone could have uploaded a file and shared the url with everyone.

AARRRGH

My experience with Hosting 365 was so bad I thought perhaps they were playing a practical joke on me. It really was that bad - sheer incompetence across every department.

Don't bother wasting your time talking to their staff. They don't care or don't know what to do and they won't resolve your issue. You need to get onto the managing director Stephen McCarron.

Btw - bad news. You won't be able to do a chargeback as the missing money was excess funds on the credit card. You need to chase this through Hosting 365.

Regarding their billing - they freqently and randomly took money off my credit card without any explanation. Very frustrating.

I suggest you contact these guys -> platinumservermanagement.com <- and sign up with their service. They'll be able to investigate your issue for you.

MOD Comment: OP was not talking about Hosting 365 (except mistakenly), but a different company called Register 365

miju

CD please refrain from using full names of staff thanks

C.D.

365 actually contacted me for the first time since this began. The conversation is as follows:

Chirag, 365 wrote:

XXXXX,

Thank you for your email.

Unfortunately we can not check back on your usages, the h-sphere system monitors FTP , Mail and Web traffic on your account for all domains and sub-domains within your account.

Even now 2 days into September your usage is 7GB, it is possible that you will go over your usage again this month, please note system does show you the usages, when you login to your control panel and we have no way of advising you when you are near or over your usage, the system is designed as it is and has been working like this since it was setup.

If you are not happy about the amount you have been charged, you can speak to Customer care and they can assist you with this.


Kind Regards

Chirag XXXX
Namesco Ireland Limited
Technical Support Team

Me wrote:

Mr XXXX,

I would like to point out that that usage is since the 24 of August. You must remember that I would need to "use" ~30 GB a day to rack to reach 950GB in a 30 day period. As it stands, you and others in Hosting 365 have been unwilling to provide me with server logs (ie. proof) of my usage. If at any point you do get access to them or make any progress on this issue, please contact me. I am going to seek legal advice before pursuing this matter further. I shall contact you within the next few weeks to follow up on the matter.

Regards,
XXXX

Basically they saying they cannot prove I used that bandwidth but shall bill me for. As I seem to have exhausted all these avenues with 365, I'm going to seek legal advice before pursing it further. Anybody got any tips/advice?

nobeastsofierce

Your story sucks buddy, FWIW, I'm gonna email them explaining I'm thinking of switching my hosting away from them, and stories like yours are certainly not helping their case, and that I expect them to show you where/when this bandwidth was used

jhegarty

glad I don't have hosting with them..

C.D.

Thanks guys, it is a total nightmare as I have to pay my uni registration fees soon amongst other things. Not to mention exams next week ^^ Going to seek legal advice in the next 2/3 weeks (exams permitting). At this stage I feel so poorly treated that I would not be happy to just be refunded. When I find the time I'll also fire off an e-mail to pricewatch.

miju

hang on a sec here OP . If ALREADY your traffic is showing 7GB theres something going on there in that someone is download / uploading or generally doing something.

To give you an idea of the bandwidth. I used to run a site that hosted about 5,000 legal MP3s downloads a month and the bandwidth was just short of 50gb a month.

If I was you I'd be reading my log files pronto or take the site offline and see whats happening as it sounds like you'll be looking at another bill again at that rate

Jonathan

I assume you have looked at EVERY folder on your ftp server to check for any illegal or large files that might be the offender?

jhegarty

miju wrote: »

hang on a sec here OP . If ALREADY your traffic is showing 7GB theres something going on there in that someone is download / uploading or generally doing something.

To give you an idea of the bandwidth. I used to run a site that hosted about 5,000 legal MP3s downloads a month and the bandwidth was just short of 50gb a month.

If I was you I'd be reading my log files pronto or take the site offline and see whats happening as it sounds like you'll be looking at another bill again at that rate

His month starts on the 24th , so he would be on target to come in well under his limit for 50gb

Jonathan

jhegarty wrote: »

His month starts on the 24th , so he would be on target to come in well under his limit for 50gb

In all fairness, a GB a day is a lot of transfer for 2 websites. FTP seems like the likely culprit.

OP even says he normally only uses about 1-4 GB per month

C.D.

OK just to clarify here to be absolutely clear, that is 7GB since the 24th of August and there has been heavy FTP use by me (I've backed everything up in case I have to move host) and my clan- we have transferred any demos (and css movies ie large avi's) that need to be transferred as I disabled all FTP access today. That is totally accounted for. As I said in my e-mail, I'd need to use ~30GB a day to reach 950GB in a month. Even at current use, I'd still be under 50GB at the end of the month. Web logs show both websites have used a few 100 MB's between them for all of August too. Prior to August, normal usage was 2-4GB.

TheDriver

interesting! For what its worth I found their service good (shared hosting) but found some items annoying e.g.
*Never passing on a new lower price if it changed during the year on renewal, would have to ask for it
*telephone support was no longer possible for a while
*support from people who couldn't speak very well over the phone, always had to listen very attentively
Now taken over by names UK so things might improve.
Your case sounds strange. I also hate how they keep your cc details on their system even though you ask not to!

HarryD

They can't prove why the charged you!
Seems like a flawed system to me.
Sounds like they don't got a foot to stand on..

AARRRGH

You should consider moving to a host like The Planet in the US. They are about half the price of an Irish host, allow a huge amount of traffic (I think I get 4000 gigs a month), provide super support... and unless you have a very ping sensitive website (such as hosting an online game for Irish people) you won't notice any speed differences.

craichoe

AARRRGH wrote: »

You should consider moving to a host like The Planet in the US. They are about half the price of an Irish host, allow a huge amount of traffic (I think I get 4000 gigs a month), provide super support... and unless you have a very ping sensitive website (such as hosting an online game for Irish people) you won't notice any speed differences.

http://www.bytemark.co.uk/page/Live/hosting/virtualmachine/

Bytemark rock, way cheaper, full machine for your usage too !

cgarvey

The Planet have plenty of their own issues (like 7-10 days downtime in their last power issue, like a completely inability to communicate anything, like CSRs that continually get poor reviews, etc.). With The Planet, you get what you pay for, just don't rely on them!

craichoe, that Bytemark link isn't to "full machines" it's to virtual servers. Blacknight VPS, and Digiweb, compare favourably.

AARRRGH

cgarvey wrote: »

The Planet have plenty of their own issues (like 7-10 days downtime in their last power issue, like a completely inability to communicate anything, like CSRs that continually get poor reviews, etc.). With The Planet, you get what you pay for, just don't rely on them!

craichoe, that Bytemark link isn't to "full machines" it's to virtual servers. Blacknight VPS, and Digiweb, compare favourably.

Well I've been using various hosting companies for about 10 years or so and The Planet have been dramatically superior overall. And their prices, come on, they are extremely low compared to Ireland.

cgarvey

AARRRGH wrote: »

And their prices, come on, they are extremely low compared to Ireland.

Agreed, and they always have been.

However, since becoming The Planet, the standard of care and network availability has dramatically decreased I, and many others, have found.

Anyway, a move to dedicated servers just for some FTP space & shared hosting is probably not viable. Irish shared hosting compares reasonably well (especially when you factor in the value of support). With you all the way on dedicated servers being vastly cheaper and better provisioned in the US, for sure.

C.D.

Hey guys, once this is sorted I'll seriously consider moving host as I really don't want to have to go through this again. One of my friends recommended blacknight- do you guys have any opinions on them? I'll keep you posted with regards to how I'm getting on with 365.

miju

AARRRGH wrote: »

And their prices, come on, they are extremely low compared to Ireland.

I used to be off the same opinion. However, over time having suffered speed / ping issues to the servers in the states and the fact that when problems occur you can't physically go down there and get things sorted ASAP I've completely changed my tune.

For a very slight saving over a 12 month period you really do save yourself a world of hassle when things go wrong. For example can you imagine if the OP has to go legal with this for any reason but the host was in the states??? You think his experience is bad now it would be nothing compared to a US host.

I'm STILL 2 years later trying to get a US based host to delete my CC details from their system as even though I cancelled my account years ago they still occasionally bill me with an "automatic upgrade" meaning I've the hassle of having to do a chargeback with the CC company

AARRRGH

miju wrote: »

when problems occur you can't physically go down there and get things sorted ASAP I've completely changed my tune.

What % of customers would realistically go to Hosting 365 themselves to sort out their problem?

miju wrote: »

For a very slight saving over a 12 month period you really do save yourself a world of hassle when things go wrong.

I have halved my (dedicated server) hosting costs since moving my websites to the US. Also, in my experience, the support provided by the likes of hosting 365 is beyond terrible. My experience with The Planet has been excellent.

miju wrote: »

For example can you imagine if the OP has to go legal with this for any reason but the host was in the states???

Absolutely, that is an issue for me too.

craichoe

cgarvey wrote: »

The Planet have plenty of their own issues (like 7-10 days downtime in their last power issue, like a completely inability to communicate anything, like CSRs that continually get poor reviews, etc.). With The Planet, you get what you pay for, just don't rely on them!

craichoe, that Bytemark link isn't to "full machines" it's to virtual servers. Blacknight VPS, and Digiweb, compare favourably.

Correct, but i meant full machine as in full install of my own flavour of whatever.Didn't mean Physical Hardware. Been using them since 2001 and no issues whatsoever

C.D.

Hey guys, just to keep you all posted, Register365 issued a full refund during the week, after I'd exhausted all non-legal routes and was prepared to escalate the matter (ie legal action). I'm currently in the process of moving to Blacknight, their CP does not have the same functionality and I've run into some very weird DNS issues (my domains are still with R365, it really wasn't as simple as pointing the DNS servers elsewhere) but Blacknight support is very responsive. Hopefully no issues!

axer

C.D. wrote: »

Hey guys, just to keep you all posted, H365 issued a full refund during the week, after I'd exhausted all non-legal routes and was prepared to escalate the matter (ie legal action). I'm currently in the process of moving to Blacknight, their CP does not have the same functionality and I've run into some very weird DNS issues (my domains are still with R365, it really wasn't as simple as pointing the DNS servers elsewhere) but Blacknight support is very responsive. Hopefully no issues!

I have moved some websites from register365 to blacknight no problems. Just lower the TTL on the A records and change the name servers.

miju

great to hear you have the issue sorted CD. was any reason given at all?

also , can take up to 24 hours till all servers point to the new one when you change DNS IIRC

C.D.

Register365 were very adamant their bandwidth monitor was correct, but were unable to supply me with a breakdown of my usage (what site/FTP etc) or server logs. Apparently they delete them every month. I had actually contacted a solicitor (but only over the phone and had not initiated anything) and was told that if I'm being charged for a service, the onus is on the service provider to prove I used it, as opposed to the onus being on the consumer to prove they didn't use it. As Register365 had no server logs it was a bit of a prickly situation.

Yeah I know it can take 24-72 hours, the issues I was getting were very strange and not related to that! Anyway I think it was something backend on Blacknight's part as as soon as I submitted a ticket it was sorted

PeteK*

Small random question.. why do people not do it themselves? (the work Hosting 365, The Planet etc does)

Is it even more expensive to do it all yourself? Or even possible?

Save the bother on all these charges.. :S

Nody

Chatmaster wrote: »

Small random question.. why do people not do it themselves? (the work Hosting 365, The Planet etc does)

Is it even more expensive to do it all yourself? Or even possible?

Save the bother on all these charges.. :S

Possible yes but most internet lines have a very limited upload speed with noticbly lower download/upload caps and you're not allowed to run a server on most providers. Add in to get an appropiate server with raid set up, back up functions etc. you would need to be quite IT savy (Linux Apache box etc.) and it is simply not worth the hassle compared to the cost savings.

axer

Nody wrote: »

Possible yes but most internet lines have a very limited upload speed with noticbly lower download/upload caps and you're not allowed to run a server on most providers. Add in to get an appropiate server with raid set up, back up functions etc. you would need to be quite IT savy (Linux Apache box etc.) and it is simply not worth the hassle compared to the cost savings.

Not to mention the security risks of not knowing what you are doing.

cgarvey

Chatmaster wrote: »

why do people not do it themselves? (the work Hosting 365, The Planet etc does)

Economies of scale. Especially with bandwidth.

Biggins

Wow - thats some bill.
I have two sites. One is has .ie address and the other has a .com address. Both are hosted by the same company. They give me 150 gigs a month and only charge me 4 euro a month in TOTAL costs. Their servers are NEVER down. Have blistering speed and an absolute brilliant 24 hour backup service to date.
They also have a class sitebuilder service built in too.

Pm me if you want to know what company it is.
Won't say here, might conflict with the rules (will also give you links to my sites to show example of their VERY professional service).

PeteK*

Nody wrote: »

Possible yes but most internet lines have a very limited upload speed with noticbly lower download/upload caps and you're not allowed to run a server on most providers. Add in to get an appropiate server with raid set up, back up functions etc. you would need to be quite IT savy (Linux Apache box etc.) and it is simply not worth the hassle compared to the cost savings.

axer wrote: »

Not to mention the security risks of not knowing what you are doing.

cgarvey wrote: »

Economies of scale. Especially with bandwidth.

Ahh, well all these points will help me if I ever decide to get my own sites! :P

Biggins wrote: »

Wow - thats some bill.
I have two sites. One is has .ie address and the other has a .com address. Both are hosted by the same company. They give me 150 gigs a month and only charge me 4 euro a month in TOTAL costs. Their servers are NEVER down. Have blistering speed and an absolute brilliant 24 hour backup service to date.
They also have a class sitebuilder service built in too.

Pm me if you want to know what company it is.
Won't say here, might conflict with the rules (will also give you links to my sites to show example of their VERY professional service).

I'm sure you can name it.. there are a few named here..

P.s. FastHosts.co.uk ?

steve-hosting36

Just for the record, Hosting365 does not provide web hosting (nor has done since May 2008) - You are dealing with Register365.com in this thread (owned by www.names.co.uk) and it has nothing to do with Hosting365 in any way,

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

steve-hosting36 wrote: »

Just for the record, Hosting365 does not provide web hosting (nor has done since May 2008) - You are dealing with Register365.com in this thread (owned by www.names.co.uk) and it has nothing to do with Hosting365 in any way,

Anyone else able to confirm that this is the case? Might have to go back and change the names used in the thread if that is real situation.