Too High Gravestone in Kilcully Cemetery

JP Liz

Source The Examiner

A FORMER lord mayor of Cork is to ask the city council to cap the height and width of headstones used in graveyards.


Councillor Joe O’Callaghan is to put forward a motion at the next meeting of Cork City Council, after a 15.5ft high, 20ft wide gravestone was erected at Kilcully Cemetery, on the northside of the city.

“It dwarfs everything else in the graveyard by a mile and it is completely out of character with what is recognised as a showpiece graveyard,” the Fine Gael Cllr said.





The gravestone is so big that it required the use of a crane and scaffolding to put it in place.

It was erected at Kilcully Cemetery three days ago.

Mr O’Callaghan said he was informed the headstone cost nearly €50,000.

“I can understand that families would want to honour their loved ones and put up a nice headstone to remember them, but this is simply too large and there are health and safety implications,” Mr O’Callaghan said.

He said he inspected the headstone and was concerned that it had been put on a plinth “of quite modest proportions.”

“Kilcully is a quite open graveyard and it can get very windy up there. This is a massive monument and I’d be worried that it could topple over if there was a severe wind,” the councillor said.

He added that he had asked the city council to send out engineers to check the stability of the headstone.

“I know there were a lot of other people who made calls to the city council on this matter,” Mr O’Callaghan said.

He will urge the city council to introduce new byelaws which will provide a limit on the size of headstones. “If we don’t do something we will have people outdoing each other, and who knows where that will end.”

castie

Heard this on the radio. Apparently they even damaged several other grave stones putting it in. It disgusts me the lack of respect that has been shown with the installation of this. Fair enough you want a big tribute to someone you loved but causing damage to another person's loved one's grave is dispictable.

invincibleirish

Gravestones say more about the people who erect them rather then the people they commemorate.

In this cause the memorial is in exceptionally poor taste and appears to reflect personal vanity more then anything else on behalf of the family involved, of course they had to make everyone aware of how much it cost:rolleyes:.

byhookorbycrook

major danger is that it will fall over!

MunsterCycling

Should be removed and the company who was involved in putting it in made pay for the repair of the damaged headstones, just shows how lacking the city council is in local laws and foresight. Disgusting

MC

BanzaiBk

I saw this in person today after visiting my granda's grave. It's unbelievably huge and gaudy. There isn't actual words to describe how oversized and out of place it is in Kilcully. I'm well aware of the heartache berevement is, but this is not grief. It's crazy.

MunsterCycling

Could you post up a picture for us all to see as this is unbelievable?

MC

BanzaiBk

It was either on the front of the Echo today or yesterday, I don't normally take photos in graveyards.

MunsterCycling

Well neither do I but haven't got the rag that is the Echo so was just wondering...

MC

Kold

Yeah, anyone able to upload a pic?

MunsterCycling

Kristopherus be very very careful with comments like that, it disgusting no matter who had it erected.

Kristopherus

MunsterCycling wrote: »

Kristopherus be very very careful with comments like that, it disgusting no matter who had it erected.

Keep in mind that your and my taxes contributed to the cost.

MunsterCycling

LOL that may be so but all the same... Who says I pay taxes, Taxes what are they?

JP Liz

The family (who had the gravestone erected) are members of the travelling community not that it matters

parsi

MunsterCycling wrote: »

just shows how lacking the city council is in local laws and foresight. Disgusting

MC

That's a fairly silly comment.

Do you expect the council to legislate for every possible type of gravestone ?

Is it all to be decided based on the "taste" of a certain class of people ?

I've seen some of these ostentatious graves and they would not be my cup of tea ( those rosary beads where each bead is the size of a football drive me spare) but I feel that there is a bit of snobbery going on in this dispute.

Chase after them for damage caused (if this is the case) and structural soundness but don't go imposing "taste".

MunsterCycling

The city council should have legislated long ago on the size of headstones that can be used in their graveyards, its just that they are so slow to do anything and have abdicated their duties to the city manager who is committed to destroying the city with high rise monstrosities.

And to finish, no they draw up loose guidelines which only limit a gravestones width and height, what you want to put on it is your own business (of course once there are no lights etc... lol)

MC

PS I expect my city council to work for their expenses not moan about what they should have done.

flo8s967qjh0nd

Here's and image of said gravestone.
It is horrible, tasteless vulgar, etc. but I have to feel a bit sorry for the family concerned. They clearly did think they were doing a good thing.

MunsterCycling

Liana Freezing Stitch wrote: »

Here's and image of said gravestone.
It is horrible, tasteless vulgar, etc. but I have to feel a bit sorry for the family concerned. They clearly did think they were doing a good thing.

Yes let us not lose sight of the reason a gravestone was erected in the first place, the death of a loved one.

Now this only adds further to my point that the council should have got off their lazy asses and legislated long ago.

MC

Kold

:eek: All Pope John Paul had was a slab on the ground!

MunsterCycling

John Paul come in for your dinner.... JP or JP II?

craichoe

Ughh ... Theres lots of these around, I've seen two in Cemetarys in Tipperary.

<snip> less of the racial comments please

MunsterCycling

Just again parsi this is not something the city council wouldn't have known could happen yet did nothing to prevent it.

MC

Kold

Well in fairness to them, I want to be taxidermied suplexing a grizzly bear. I think my monument would be far more awesome.

MunsterCycling

And then we could take pot shots at the bear... LOL

parsi

MunsterCycling wrote: »

Just again parsi this is not something the city council wouldn't have known could happen yet did nothing to prevent it.

MC

It offends taste alright but what is inherently wrong with it ?

What grounds could it be legislated against ? I'd love to see the Councillors come up with an agreed set of dimensions - there are plenty of tall ones out there, there are plenty that span multiple plots (paid for)...

Can you imagine the furore caused if PP was necessary for headstones ? All our dear Councillors (who voted for the proposal) would trot out and say that the council should show sensitivity in the situation what with it being a sad time yadda yadda yadda....

Another solution would be a council supplied standard headstone - there would be more moaning about that.

You can be sure that when a Councillor starts protesting there is something else involved...

MunsterCycling

Umm would you have any of them ah brown coloured bags there now would ya? Its for me.... sandwiches yeah me sandwiches!


MC

JP Liz

Liana Freezing Stitch wrote: »

Here's and image of said gravestone.
It is horrible, tasteless vulgar, etc. but I have to feel a bit sorry for the family concerned. They clearly did think they were doing a good thing.

You know you are talking about a gravestone? How can any be vulgar?

I wonder if said headstone wasnt belonging to a member of the travelling community would there be as much fuss

Kold

JP Liz wrote: »

You know you are talking about a gravestone? How can any be vulgar?

By being big and garish and absolutely devoid of taste?

simu

In the Examiner, they said there was a danger of it being toppled over by strong winds afair.

Or maybe it's a bold architectural step to new, Las Vegas-style gravestones. o_O

JP Liz

Is it still up or has it been taken down?

Fysh

It's pretty gaudy imo, but what surprises me is that it looks more like a shrine than anything else. I would have thought the council had restrictions or at the very least guidelines concerning how big a gravestone can be.

Must admit the comments about whether they're travellers or not are a bit odd, surely it's irrelevant who put up the gravestone?

Morlar

With all respect to the family for their loss - that is the most horrendous looking headstone I have ever seen. In my view its the opposite of dignified and quite disrespectful to other families who have loved ones laid to rest in that immediate vicinity.

MJOR

Holy mother of god! its awful but the family are grieving and there really is no law which of course there should be.

spring lane jack

My first time visiting Kilcully was a few days ago and I couldn't believe this grave. Its like something you would expect to see on a road advertising a casino or a caravan park. All that was missing was flashing lights. I found it so funny that I came back the next day to show it to a friend.

endacl

JP Liz wrote: »

The family (who had the gravestone erected) are members of the travelling community not that it matters

Well. There's me shocked and stunned....

biddyearley

Quantum Erasure

Came across this piece by Mary Leland when googling him

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/grave-matter-of-memorials-26476677.html

Grave matter of memorials
Mary Leland

September 14 2008 04:49 AM


Looking at the headstone of a man I know for a fact is still alive I think: "This is the way to do it!" The controversy about graveyard memorials is not exactly raging, although a few families here and there seem to be aggrieved as well as grieving. In Cork recently grief took the shape of a monumental headstone commemorating, with great expense (estimated at €50,000) the life of Tommy Kiely, horse dealer and one of the Travelling people. It's not taste so much as public safety which caused the controversy here, as a local councillor believed the headstone to be unstable, although he was also concerned that it was out of keeping with the tranquillity of what is, admittedly, a serene rural atmosphere in Kilcully.

I'm thinking of this as I stand in the dusty studio of sculptor Ken Thompson near Ballycotton, Co Cork, wondering if I have missed something important in the newspaper death announcements.

Thompson, who has won international recognition, is sometimes asked to carve headstones and every now and again his spare but beautifully lettered inscriptions blaze out from the usual crowds of whitened sepulchres and shiny black blocks engraved with gold. And every now and again his cliff-top studio holds a plain slab with a plain message, name and dates and very little more.

Except on this one there's no second date, which is some relief as I realise that this man isn't dead yet but is aware of his fate. The end may not be nigh, but it is advancing day by day. So this is the way to settle the issue of who puts what where; the cemetery is decided on, the inscription already cut, the known date inserted and the unknown one left to the future. And all in excellent taste. It's like a living will, written in stone.

Standing here, with the wash of the sea below, there is a feeling of serenity, as if death can be modelled into a shape pleasing to the eye and soul if not exactly welcomed.

It's when we have to cope with someone else's death that the sentiments are dictated by emotion. That's when we lose the run of ourselves and declare to the rest of mankind our own estimation of the deceased's extraordinary virtues. We've been doing it for a long time, sometimes with a little justification, sometimes with none at all.

In Cloyne Cathedral, for example, a tablet calls to mind the 'distinguished career in literary attainments' of Francis Blake Woodward, son of Bishop Richard Woodward and Susanna his wife. Francis had shown early signs which prompted 'the most flattering hope that he would prove an ornament to his country'. Unfortunately, 'The providence of God appointed for him a better lot, to be rescued from temptation in the prime of innocence and to afford a striking instance of the vanity of human hopes.' Vanity indeed, Francis was 18 years old when he died in 1784.

But that's what anguish, even in such high-minded acceptance of God's will, and grief can do. Imagine a tablet lasting for more than 200 years announcing that even at 18 one had achieved a distinguished career in anything, not to mind literary attainments.

It should not be presumed that the dead are beyond embarrassment, however much we might have loved them. But although sometimes the language of a graveyard may provoke criticism or even disbelief, there is always some excuse for the excesses resulting from the loss of a child.

Or so I tell myself as I try to take in the awfulness of a large monument in one graveyard. There should be a law against it, for here the mourning pediment is upheld by two painted models of Bob the Builder. And then I'm ashamed of myself, for these were among the angels of this short life. Never having had this grief I have no right to mock. And no one ever prepares a headstone in advance for the death of their child.

Peregrinus

It has been standing for 13 years, and hasn't fallen over yet. Concerns about its soundness were raised when it was first erected. For all we know, the Council have inspected it and found to be structurally sound. The OP includes a newspaper report of a Councillor talking about getting engineers sent out to check it; perhaps that was done?

The creators of this piece evidently had no taste, but it doesn't follow that they lacked skill and competence as monumental masons. A monument can be hideous, and yet perfectly sound.

Widdensushi

It's still 'but a puppy' in headstone years, it's not unusual to them a few hundred years old.

deandean

It'd be great if someone could keep an eye on the condition of the OP gravestone, and update this thread every decade.
Thirteen years is too long.
&#55357;&#56833;

Peregrinus

Check back in in 2031, so.

NIMAN

It's obvious money can't buy class.

Peregrinus

That's hardly news.

whisky_galore

Liana Freezing Stitch wrote: »

Here's and image of said gravestone.
It is horrible, tasteless vulgar, etc. but I have to feel a bit sorry for the family concerned. They clearly did think they were doing a good thing.

Does it light up at night as well?

Yeah I feel sorry for the family, for being devoid of taste.

JP Liz V1

Wasn't headstones up there vandalised?

spring lane jack

whisky_galore wrote: »

Does it light up at night as well?

Yeah I feel sorry for the family, for being devoid of taste.

I think if the red roses were replaced by red lights then it would be the icing on the cake. My friend mentioned that it was highly probable that the grave could be seen from space. :pac:

Spotlights should have been installed to complete the greatness.

corks finest

Peregrinus wrote: »

It has been standing for 13 years, and hasn't fallen over yet. Concerns about its soundness were raised when it was first erected. For all we know, the Council have inspected it and found to be structurally sound. The OP includes a newspaper report of a Councillor talking about getting engineers sent out to check it; perhaps that was done?

The creators of this piece evidently had no taste, but it doesn't follow that they lacked skill and competence as monumental masons. A monument can be hideous, and yet perfectly sound.

It’s obscene

spring lane jack

spring lane jack wrote: »

My first time visiting Kilcully was a few days ago and I couldn't believe this grave. Its like something you would expect to see on a road advertising a casino or a caravan park. All that was missing was flashing lights. I found it so funny that I came back the next day to show it to a friend.

You should see the graveyard in Rathkeale so...

corks finest

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You should see the graveyard in Rathkeale so...

It’s not the travellers fault it’s our dopey city and county councils

corks finest

corks finest wrote: »

It’s not the travellers fault it’s our dopey city and county councils

Yep. Don't gravestones require planning permission?

Peregrinus

Jeremy Beagle wrote: »

Yep. Don't gravestones require planning permission?

Nope. Works "incidental to the use or maintenance of any burial ground" are an exempted development (except for the construction of a wall or gate on a public road, and the construction or alteration of any building within the burial ground).

There'd be uproar if people had to apply for planning permission to put up a grave marker.