Are you legally pulling your horsebox?

SanNJay

The law requires you to have an EB licence to pull a horsebox.

So here's a little survey,

if you pull a horse box, do you have the correct licence?
if you have a B licence have you ever been stopped by the gardai and corrected on this?

Sandra

fits

Only people who passed their test after 1997 need the EB license.

I dont have mine yet. But I dont tow yet either.

SanNJay

fits wrote: »

Only people who passed their test after 1997 need the EB license.

But sure if its on their licence they'll vote yes

fits

Sorry, I wasnt very clear there, I meant only people who passed their B test after 1997 need to do the EB test.

Just in case anyone panics unnecessarily if they read this.

SanNJay

fits wrote: »

Sorry, I wasnt very clear there, I meant only people who passed their B test after 1997 need to do the EB test.

Just in case anyone panics unnecessarily if they read this.

ha ha

yeah what fits said.

Heres a little story.

I have a full B licence. So i want to apply for my EB provisional. I asked the lady if i have a provisional do i cover myself with the full B licence. and no you don't. You have to have full EB licence holder with you.

Also,

with insurance, they sometimes only take your most recent licence so if you have a full B and a provisonal EB your back to a provisional - unless its a different policy.

Sandra

skink

your actually wrong, with an E licence you can tow a trailer, once total weight of vehicle, trailer and load do not exceed 3,500kgs

fits

skink wrote: »

your actually wrong, with an E licence you can tow a trailer, once total weight of vehicle, trailer and load do not exceed 3,500kgs

Nope, I'm 100% sure I'm correct that you need an EB for a trailer of capacity >750kg.

If you can find a source to back what you're saying up, post it by all means.

jackell

Cars and trailers

If you hold a Full category B licence, you may tow a trailer only if:

• the design gross vehicle weight of the trailer is 750kg or less, or
• the unladen (empty) weight of your towing vehicle is at least the same as the trailer's design gross vehicle weight, and the combined design gross vehicle weight of the vehicle and trailer is no more than 3,500kg.

When using a car to tow a heavier trailer, you must hold a category EB licence.

fits

May I tow a trailer on my full B license?

A. Yes, provided
(1) the design gross vehicle weight of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the drawing vehicle and the combination does not exceed 3500kg or

(2) the design gross vehicle weight of the trailer does not exceed 750kg If you wish to tow a heavier trailer you will have to apply for a category EB
license.

Source

http://www.rsa.ie/SERVICES/upload/File/Licensing/Frequently%20Asked%20Questions.pdf

Point 2 clearly means you need an EB to tow a horsebox.

fits

jackell wrote: »

[/LIST]When using a car to tow a heavier trailer, you must hold a category EB licence.

You got there before me. However I think this sentence confuses the issue slightly. You will *always* need an EB to tow a horsebox.

SanNJay

the problem is that were not informed enough of this. the majority do not know you need an EB licence and use the 3500kg 'rule'

Sandra

Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

As a legal driver, it is your responsibility to make sure that you are aware of any changes to the law that relate to you.

SanNJay

Deleted User wrote: »

Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

As a legal driver, it is your responsibility to make sure that you are aware of any changes to the law that relate to you.

I feel like your directing that at me. I started this post. I know the law

Sandra

fits

I dont think that was directed at anyone Sandra.

And its very true. People should know the laws in relation to these things and make it their business to conform to them.

SanNJay

i apologise then for accusing.

Sandra

A_M101

Hmm, I have a full B license for only the last 2 years and I tow, so it appears I'm breaking the law.

So there's provisional EB licenses? Will I need another test then as well?

fits

yes.

finbarrk

I heard the gardai have been doing a few checks near venues where horseboxes and cattleboxes have been recentley.

SanNJay

A_M101 wrote: »

Hmm, I have a full B license for only the last 2 years and I tow, so it appears I'm breaking the law.

So there's provisional EB licenses? Will I need another test then as well?

yes you need a provisional EB and you need a full licence EB driver to be with you until you pass your EB test.

Sandra

Bendihorse

If the towing vehicle weighs more than the trailer does when its loaded then your ok as long as that combined weight is no more than 3500kgs, right?

SanNJay

Bendihorse wrote: »

If the towing vehicle weighs more than the trailer does when its loaded then your ok as long as that combined weight is no more than 3500kgs, right?

can you back that up? i.e quote, reference, links...

Sandra

fits

Ok for what?

You need an EB if the dgvw of the trailer is >750kg.

All horseboxes have a dgvw>750kg.

SanNJay

fits wrote: »

Ok for what?

You need an EB if the dgvw of the trailer is >750kg.

All horseboxes have a dgvw>750kg.

i don't know what dgvw stands for vehicle weight sticks out thou.

All i know is. A Category B licence entitles you drive a vehicle with up to 8 passengers and under 3,500kg. It also entitle you to pull a single axle trailer under 750kg.

anything above requires an EB licence


the scarey thing is, if you have an accident while towing your double axle horse/cattle/sheep box and you dont' have an EB licence well then technically your insurance company dosn't have to stand over you.


Sandra

fits

dgvw is the design gross vehicle weight.

i.e. the weight of the trailer + the maximum weight it can carry.

Its probably close to 2000kg for most horseboxes.

SanNJay

fits wrote: »

dgvw is the design gross vehicle weight.

i.e. the weight of the trailer + the maximum weight it can carry.

Its probably close to 2000kg for most horseboxes.

ok, well then yes you need an EB licence if it is over that

Sandra

Bendihorse

Ill keep towing until a guard tells me to stop. I was pulled over in Dublin on the M1 recently by a guard for being on the phone (even though i wasn't) He checked my licence but didn't say anything to me about the trailer.

SanNJay

Bendihorse wrote: »

Ill keep towing until a guard tells me to stop. I was pulled over in Dublin on the M1 recently by a guard for being on the phone (even though i wasn't) He checked my licence but didn't say anything to me about the trailer.

Thats an interesting point you have just made.
So if you were pulled up and asked for your licence and a guard told you that you were not legally driving what would your response be?


Sandra

Bendihorse

My response would be 'No way! You need a licence to tow a trailer? Well iv been towing for 8 years and this is the first iv ever heard of that... Ill go and get it organised straight away officer' *flutter eyelashes and hope he lets me away with it* If he doesn't, i guess ill have to figure that one out at the time!

But if and when it comes to doing the test, i will be more inclined to go and do the Rigid Truck test rather than waste money on doing the Car and Trailer test...

SanNJay

what happens if you get a female guard are you gonna flutter your eye lashes at her?

If you do the rigid test you automatically get the EB. thats an advantage i suppose.

Sandra

ecaf

Very interesting thread here, I'm glad I have come across it!
I just enquired yesterday with the Motor Tax Office as to what I should do to pull a horse box (they didn't enquire about the weight of it, it seems a horse box just automatically goes under EB Licence - but I have read the weight rules as pointed out above, and yes they are very confusing in regards to a horse box). I have a full B licence also (before the Theory test)

These were the instructions given:
1. Apply for the theory test and after you have passed it... (If you have already done the theory test for a B licence then skip this part)
2. Apply for a provisional EB Licence, after 6 months you can
3. Sit the Car & Trailer Test

In the mean time you can drive & tow on your provisional EB Licence as long as you are accompanied by an EB Licence holder. Which they automatically gave to people with their B licence in the '80s.
I don't know what the 6 months has to do with it? Before you can sit the test. I think if I got a lesson or two and was confident that I could reverse it and whatever else they wanted it, then I would do it straight away.

Has anyone here done the Car & Trailer test? Could they give a few pointers as to what's involved?

There seems to be very little information on this, well that I have come across anyway.
Hope my little bit of information helps others, I'd be grateful to hear what people who have done the test have to add, although reading this forum it seems very few have done it?

fits

I think the reason so few have done it is a; because the dont know they have to or b; relatively few who passed their test after '97 would be towing horseboxes.

A_M101

Dammit.

I thought once I had my B I was done with test centres and test malarky for good.

It's rare that I tow anyway and rarely a necessity when I do and seeing as my equestrian activities are being put on a slight hold for the next 12 months I guess I'll just put off doing the test until it really is a necessity. What a pain though!

Bendihorse

SanNJay wrote: »

what happens if you get a female guard are you gonna flutter your eye lashes at her?

If you do the rigid test you automatically get the EB. thats an advantage i suppose.

Sandra

I might, sure ya never know she might be that way inclined :P If not and she decides to do me then so be it *shrug*

SanNJay

fits wrote: »

relatively few who passed their test after '97 would be towing horseboxes.

i'm not so sure fits. Are you saying younger people are less involved in horses or are driven around by family/friends etc?

Sandra

Bendihorse

As soon as they have all the unnacompanied provisionally licenced drivers policed off the roads, ill start worrying about my EB licence.

fits

SanNJay wrote: »

i'm not so sure fits. Are you saying younger people are less involved in horses or are driven around by family/friends etc?

Sandra

Nah I'm just saying that relatively few under 30s would have their own towing vehicle and trailer. There are still a sizable amount though of course.

I'm going to do the EB test as soon as I can too. Have to do the theory test first.

SanNJay

fits wrote: »

Nah I'm just saying that relatively few under 30s would have their own towing vehicle and trailer. There are still a sizable amount though of course.

I'm going to do the EB test as soon as I can too. Have to do the theory test first.

did you do a theorey test for your B licence? if yes, then you don't have to do the theorey test for the EB.

Sandra

fits

Does it not look like I've researched this or something?

SanNJay

fits wrote: »

Does it not look like I've researched this or something?

just trying to be helpful.

Sandra

ecaf

fits wrote: »

I'm going to do the EB test as soon as I can too. Have to do the theory test first.

Hi fits, do you pull a horse box at the moment then?

I only have a B licence - might need to pull a box fairly soon though, I won't get my theory test done and get my provisional posted out that soon. Knowing my luck I'd get stopped if I did drive before that. I would have someone to accompany me with an EB licence, but they got it when they were handing them out with your B licence and although they have pulled a box before they aren't that confident in doing so.
What to do.....????

fits

ecaf wrote: »

Hi fits, do you pull a horse box at the moment then?

I've only pulled an empty box once. I have a box, or rather my Dad does, but I've nothing to tow it with (nor does he).

I only have a B licence - might need to pull a box fairly soon though, I won't get my theory test done and get my provisional posted out that soon. Knowing my luck I'd get stopped if I did drive before that. I would have someone to accompany me with an EB licence, but they got it when they were handing them out with your B licence and although they have pulled a box before they aren't that confident in doing so.
What to do.....????

You could get a lesson, and practice with an empty box. Its not that difficult really. Otherwise just apply for the license as quickly as you can.

fits

SanNJay wrote: »

just trying to be helpful.

fair enough. But ecaf had posted that information already too. No real need to repeat it (in theory).

ecaf

fits wrote: »

You could get a lesson, and practice with an empty box. Its not that difficult really. Otherwise just apply for the license as quickly as you can.

Yeah, going to do that. I'd apply for the theory test tomorrow but I'm scared I won't pass it. I did my friends theory test for the craic on the CD and got most right, but you have to get 35 out of 40 or something. I'm waiting to get the book sent to me and then when I've studied up I'll apply for the exam.

Don't think the Guards would take that as an excuse if they decided to pull you over and check you have the licence and all that!

leeroybrown

jackell wrote: »

Cars and trailers

If you hold a Full category B licence, you may tow a trailer only if:

• the design gross vehicle weight of the trailer is 750kg or less, or
• the unladen (empty) weight of your towing vehicle is at least the same as the trailer's design gross vehicle weight, and the combined design gross vehicle weight of the vehicle and trailer is no more than 3,500kg.

When using a car to tow a heavier trailer, you must hold a category EB licence.

Quite a few people in this thread have mentioned the above guidelines for trailers and have then claimed that they disallow you from towing a trailer with a design GVW of over 750Kg. That's incorrect. If you read carefully you'll see the word or at the end of the first clause. You may tow a trailer heavier than 750Kg provided that you meet both requirements in the second clause. Obviously, you're highly unlikely to meet this requirement with something the size of a horse box but it doesn't mean that you can't tow greater than 750Kg.

For example, my car has a design GVW of just under 2000Kg, an unladen weight of about 1400Kg. That will allow someone to legally tow a trailer with design GVW of 1400Kg on a full category B licence.

fits

You are wrong.

http://www.rsa.ie/SERVICES/upload/File/Licensing/Frequently%20Asked%20Questions.pdf

May I tow a trailer on my full B license?

A. Yes, provided
(1) the design gross vehicle weight of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the drawing vehicle and the combination does not exceed 3500kg or

(2) the design gross vehicle weight of the trailer does not exceed 750kg If you wish to tow a heavier trailer you will have to apply for a category EB license.

ecaf

leeroybrown wrote: »

Quite a few people in this thread have mentioned the above guidelines for trailers and have then claimed that they disallow you from towing a trailer with a design GVW of over 750Kg. That's incorrect. If you read carefully you'll see the word or at the end of the first clause. You may tow a trailer heavier than 750Kg provided that you meet both requirements in the second clause. Obviously, you're highly unlikely to meet this requirement with something the size of a horse box but it doesn't mean that you can't tow greater than 750Kg.

For example, my car has a design GVW of just under 2000Kg, an unladen weight of about 1400Kg. That will allow someone to legally tow a trailer with design GVW of 1400Kg on a full category B licence.

Its hard to understand when you get caught up in GVW and combined weight < 3500kg, etc.
Say for example a jeep (old pajero - 1992 / 1996 it's my friends not sure which, but its small and compact), and a standard double horse box.

Would these two be under 3500 kg then?

SanNJay

ecaf wrote: »

Its hard to understand when you get caught up in GVW and combined weight < 3500kg, etc.
Say for example a jeep (old pajero - 1992 / 1996 it's my friends not sure which, but its small and compact), and a standard double horse box.

Would these two be under 3500 kg then?

Look guys forget the weight!

a category B licence can only pull a SINGLE AXLE trailer.

Sandra

fits

fits wrote: »

You are wrong.

May I tow a trailer on my full B license?

A. Yes, provided
(1) the design gross vehicle weight of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the drawing vehicle and the combination does not exceed 3500kg or

(2) the design gross vehicle weight of the trailer does not exceed 750kg If you wish to tow a heavier trailer you will have to apply for a category EB
license.
http://www.rsa.ie/SERVICES/upload/File/Licensing/Frequently%20Asked%20Questions.pdf

This is the last time I'm going to post this. It is as clear as day.

you need an EB to tow a horsebox.

ecaf

OK sorry!
I know you mentioned that before, but I had forgotten.
I took a mock theory test online and got 36, I think I'll go ahead and book it for next week, if I got it then I could have my provisional in time for the following weekend. (Fingers crossed)!

SanNJay

fits wrote: »

This is the last time I'm going to post this. It is as clear as day.

you need an EB to tow a horsebox.

yeah i'm agreeing with you.. i have done all along!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sandra

leeroybrown

fits wrote: »

You are wrong.

http://www.rsa.ie/SERVICES/upload/File/Licensing/Frequently%20Asked%20Questions.pdf

I strongly disagree. Either but not both of clauses (1) or (2) must be valid and the last line part is not part of clause (2). I'll reformat it so that you can re-read it properly:

Q. May I tow a trailer on my full B license?

A. Yes, provided

(1) the design gross vehicle weight of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the drawing vehicle and the combination does not exceed 3500kg

or

(2) the design gross vehicle weight of the trailer does not exceed 750kg

If you wish to tow a heavier trailer you will have to apply for a category EB license.