insurance summons

ac1977

HI,
A Garda just called to my door, with a summons to court for a non-showing of insurance offence. I was actually stopped for overtaking on a continuous white line, and i didn't have my driver's licence at the time, so I had to produce it at the Garda station, which i did 2 days later.

I had a valid insurance and tax disc when i was stopped, and that was never brought into question at the time by the Garda.

About 2 months ago i received a summons for the same offence for not producing my driver's licence at the station, as requested. I rang the station and it transpired that the Garda typed the wrong name into his system when I went to the station, or somehow entered the wrong details. So at the time the Garda said everything would be sorted, that he would talk to other Garda who stopped me.

The guy who called to my door said that it might have been that the garda asked for my insurance cert(not the disc), which would show my name etc proving that i was the registered owner of the car.

My question is-
Has anyone ever been asked for their insurance cert when they were stopped??
ive never heard of this been asked from anyone!
Can i get this quashed if i explain to the original Garda?

thanks

Tannylan

i have been stopped a few times and no never been asked to do that

Steve

The Garda's name should be on the summons.
Best bet would be try and contact him directly and try to clear it up.

If that doesn't work and what you say is true then go to court and bring every bit of documentation you have for the car (tax / insurance cert / NCT / license / registration cert) and you should be OK. Also write down every detail you can remember in a notebook - make sure it's correct.

L1011

I was asked to produce my insurance certificate and licence after an RTA that the Guards attended to (I had the disc in the car at the time, and had my licence on me, so I dunno why). But I was specifically asked, and it was stressed to me when I was being reminded what to do at the end.

Our man in Havana

The insurance disc is worthless to the Gardaí. They will always ask to see the full cert. The disc proves nothing.

ac1977

MYOB wrote: »

I was asked to produce my insurance certificate and licence after an RTA that the Guards attended to (I had the disc in the car at the time, and had my licence on me, so I dunno why). But I was specifically asked, and it was stressed to me when I was being reminded what to do at the end.

Yeah, i was never asked for insurance details at any point. He asked first "Are you the registered owner of this vehicle?", to which i replied "yes" which would imply(unless i was lying), that the insurance disc on my windscreen was mine.
Seems ill have to give him a ring and debate it.
thanks

ac1977

Bond-007 wrote: »

The insurance disc is worthless to the Gardaí. They will always ask to see the full cert. The disc proves nothing.

Does anyone really carry the full cert around in the car with them?
Ive never heard of this before!

Our man in Havana

I always carry my cert around. It avoids all that hassle with having to produce at a station that is never open.

Esel

I always carry mine. Makes things go a lot smoother at the roadside.

Steve

Bond-007 wrote: »

The insurance disc is worthless to the Gardaí. They will always ask to see the full cert. The disc proves nothing.

They generally only ask to produce if there is is an incident though or maybe in the OP's case when stopped for an offence so maybe the OP was asked for it and "forgot"?

Bandara

I always carry my insurance cert with my license.

They always ask for it when its obvious they have nothing else to get you on and they are p!ssed off. Very few people seen to carry it so i enjoy their little faces falling when I cheerfully produce it from my glovebox.

Our man in Havana

They love causing you inconvenience by making you take it to the station.

luder

Bond-007 wrote: »

They love causing you inconvenience by making you take it to the station.

Exactly...if they really wanted to see if you had insurance on your vehicle a quick vehicle registration check to the station would inform them if you had insurance or not.

It also states the expiry date, and if the garda requests the insurance company's name also..

Steve

luder wrote: »

Exactly...if they really wanted to see if you had insurance on your vehicle a quick vehicle registration check to the station would inform them if you had insurance or not.

It also states the expiry date, and if the garda requests the insurance company's name also..

Is that true?
I'm not sure.
If it's based on the entries on the motor tax system then its flawed - you can give any old random details when renewing tax, it's not checked against anything.

Our man in Havana

There is a database of insurance details maintained by the Department of transport. Insurance companies do supply them with policy details. I have no idea if the Gardaí have access to it though.

lightyear

Bond-007 wrote: »

They love causing you inconvenience by making you take it to the station.

luder wrote: »

Exactly...if they really wanted to see if you had insurance on your vehicle a quick vehicle registration check to the station would inform them if you had insurance or not.

It also states the expiry date, and if the garda requests the insurance company's name also..

Eh yea, LOVE causing the inconvenience
Whats that all about?!
And no a reg check to the station will not tell ye for definite about the insurance.

TheNog

Hammertime wrote: »

I always carry my insurance cert with my license.

They always ask for it when its obvious they have nothing else to get you on and they are p!ssed off. Very few people seen to carry it so i enjoy their little faces falling when I cheerfully produce it from my glovebox.

That's it. You are so right. We get really pissed off when you produce your ins cert at the roadside. Or do we?
When a person produces their cert to me,

• i don;t have to log it in my notebook,
• i don;t hvae to ask you where you will produce it,
• i don't have to log your details in the station (cos there is a good chance I will be working in the station when yuo produce therefore giving me more work to do) and
• I don't have to check at a later date that you did or didn't produce.

If a person didn't produce then

• I would have to create an incident,
• have it reviewed,
• create summons,
• get summons stamped at the district court,
• create report sheet,
• send report and summons to sergeant's office for forwarding to a member to be served,
• member serves it,
• gets it signed by a Peace Commisioner,
• lodge it into district court clerk or send it back to me directly,
• I have to track the summons to ensure it is served on time and then
• I have to appear in court.

See your happy little silly face at the roadside is nothing compared to my happiness that actually had the cert there and then. Even I carry my cert around with me even though I have never been stopped and asked to produce.

But hey you continue on believing that you have scored a little victory even though you haven't really and I will continue doing my job.

Bond-007 wrote: »

They love causing you inconvenience by making you take it to the station.

as above chances are you will be producing the cert to me at my station and I am only too happy to see cos I have a 100 and 1 things to do besides.

luder wrote: »

Exactly...if they really wanted to see if you had insurance on your vehicle a quick vehicle registration check to the station would inform them if you had insurance or not.

It also states the expiry date, and if the garda requests the insurance company's name also..

Reg check sometimes does give you a ins policy but it is not reliable therefore that is why you are asked to produce the cert to prove you are insured. The disc on your windscreen only proves the car is insured but not who is insured on it.

Bond-007 wrote: »

There is a database of insurance details maintained by the Department of transport. Insurance companies do supply them with policy details. I have no idea if the Gardaí have access to it though.

Unfortunately not. I believe the insurance details on PULSE are got from the Motor Tax office but are not reliable.

lightyear wrote: »

Eh yea, LOVE causing the inconvenience
Whats that all about?!
And no a reg check to the station will not tell ye for definite about the insurance.

Exactly

-Chris-

TheNog wrote: »

That's it. You are so right. We get really pissed off when you produce your ins cert at the roadside. Or do we...

...but hey you continue on believing that you have scored a little victory even though you haven't really and I will continue doing my job.

LOL, nice answer!

Bandara

Wow, a Garda who is actually competent at his job.

I applaud you sir.

Well done.

Our man in Havana

+1

You are a credit to the force sir.

As a matter of interest what % produce an insurance cert at the roadside?

January

Gardai ring insurance companies all the time asking for information about cars that are insured/aren't insured.

We cannot give them information for "Data Protection Reasons".

That seems to piss some Gardai off (note I said "some") and then they try to take it out on the insurance company for not giving out the info.

TheNog

Bond-007 wrote: »

As a matter of interest what % produce an insurance cert at the roadside?

not many can produce at the roadside but it is usually the ones that get stopped frequently such as young fellas and travellers. Some of the young fellas do bitch about having to produce all the time.

adrieanne__x wrote: »

Gardai ring insurance companies all the time asking for information about cars that are insured/aren't insured.

We cannot give them information for "Data Protection Reasons".

That seems to piss some Gardai off (note I said "some") and then they try to take it out on the insurance company for not giving out the info.

Has happened to me but not often. Usually just ask to confirm details rather than actually seek new information.

I find that if I am nice to the person on the phone they will be nice back

Our man in Havana

Thanks The Nog, I was not trying to be sarcastic or trying to get a victory over the Gardaí. The last Garda that asked me for my insurance cert was genuinely surprised when I reached into the glove and took out all my docs. He had already said "what station do want to produce at?"

I always carry my docs as I don't know where I will be able to produce them as I am always on the road and I never know more than a day or two in advance where I will be at.

galwaytt

++1 to The Nog - thank god someone is talking common sense.

OP - the event I presume you are summonsed for is non-production of insurance, not 'no insurance' - there is a subtle difference. 99% of the time, one goes in hand with the other. It would appear here though, not here.

Take a pill -
1. Go to station with your supporting information, and explain that you were covered, but don't remember being asked to produce it. If things are too far down the road, summons-wise, there might be little he can do, so......

2. If you end up in court, explain your case - you were covered, and did produce that which you thought you were asked. Have your info with you. Consult with the Garda before you are called up - the Judge may ask the Garda if you've subsequently produced the necessary to his satisfaction, but you were outside the time allowed.

It is not uncommon to have cases like this dismissed, as the issue is administrative.....

I don't know if contacting the Clerk of the Court about your case in advance would sort this out, maybe Nog could help us out on that one. It's in no-ones interest to have the court houses clogged up with cases like this, and the Garda will be only too-delighted to not have to go, if at all poss.

I would advise anyone to sit in any district court in the country and observe just what goes on.

Gardai are under pressure to get a "return of work" and issue as many summonses as possible.

Innocent people are then summonsed to court and the cases are struck out.
No conviction but the Garda has more work done on the system.

Sit in court anywhere and watch this its plain and obvious what goes on.

goes on everywhere:
http://www.carlow-nationalist.ie/news/story/?trs=mheyojmhid

ALMOST half of all road-traffic prosecutions taken by the gardaí to Carlow District Court in 2007 were thrown out of court.

http://www.roscommonherald.ie/news/story/?trs=qlsnsnmh

A TOTAL of 2,692 road traffic offences were dealt with by judges in County Roscommon courts last year, with 39 prison sentences handed down and 1,039 fines imposed.

Nine community service orders were imposed while a total of 1,266 road traffic cases were struck out

http://www.leitrimobserver.ie/news/Road-traffic-cases-were-most.4315850.jp

Over 42% of cases were struck out

http://www.sligoweekender.ie/news/story/?trs=mhgbauqlau

ALMOST half the road traffic cases that were due before Sligo District Court last year were dismissed or struck out, according to recently released figures.

http://archives.tcm.ie/waterfordnews/2008/07/25/story29004.asp

THE Annual Report of the Courts Service shows that Waterford’s District Court heard mainly cases about road traffic offences and that in 2007 the majority of them were struck out.

Statistics issued show that 6,094 road traffic cases came before the District Court, with 3,438 (just over 56%) of them being struck out

Its only a matter of time before someone takes a case against the state to claim back their expenses and a days work lost from this kind of messing.
Nog you know what Im saying. All it will take is some big business man to lose some deal or make a huge loss from having to hang around in court to have his case struck out.

Steve

Deleted User wrote: »

Its only a matter of time before someone takes a case against the state to claim back their expenses and a days work lost from this kind of messing.
Nog you know what Im saying. All it will take is some big business man to lose some deal or make a huge loss from having to hang around in court to have his case struck out.

AFAIK, you can't claim any costs even if falsely accused by a guard. I'm not 100% on this but have heard it more than once from a solicitor. I believe you can only claim costs in a civil case (i.e. not prosecuted by the state).

Our man in Havana

You are 100% correct. You cannot recover any of your costs in a criminal case.

patrickc

TheNog wrote: »

That's it. You are so right. We get really pissed off when you produce your ins cert at the roadside. Or do we?
When a person produces their cert to me,

• i don;t have to log it in my notebook,
• i don;t hvae to ask you where you will produce it,
• i don't have to log your details in the station (cos there is a good chance I will be working in the station when yuo produce therefore giving me more work to do) and
• I don't have to check at a later date that you did or didn't produce.

If a person didn't produce then

• I would have to create an incident,
• have it reviewed,
• create summons,
• get summons stamped at the district court,
• create report sheet,
• send report and summons to sergeant's office for forwarding to a member to be served,
• member serves it,
• gets it signed by a Peace Commisioner,
• lodge it into district court clerk or send it back to me directly,
• I have to track the summons to ensure it is served on time and then
• I have to appear in court.

See your happy little silly face at the roadside is nothing compared to my happiness that actually had the cert there and then. Even I carry my cert around with me even though I have never been stopped and asked to produce.

But hey you continue on believing that you have scored a little victory even though you haven't really and I will continue doing my job.



as above chances are you will be producing the cert to me at my station and I am only too happy to see cos I have a 100 and 1 things to do besides.



Reg check sometimes does give you a ins policy but it is not reliable therefore that is why you are asked to produce the cert to prove you are insured. The disc on your windscreen only proves the car is insured but not who is insured on it.



Unfortunately not. I believe the insurance details on PULSE are got from the Motor Tax office but are not reliable.



Exactly

its your job to follow up when people dont have it with them, its not compulsory stop whining

TheNog wrote: »

not many can produce at the roadside but it is usually the ones that get stopped frequently such as young fellas and travellers. Some of the young fellas do bitch about having to produce all the time.

see picking on people yet again, typical garda

Deleted User wrote: »

I would advise anyone to sit in any district court in the country and observe just what goes on.

Gardai are under pressure to get a "return of work" and issue as many summonses as possible.

Innocent people are then summonsed to court and the cases are struck out.
No conviction but the Garda has more work done on the system.

Sit in court anywhere and watch this its plain and obvious what goes on.

goes on everywhere:





Its only a matter of time before someone takes a case against the state to claim back their expenses and a days work lost from this kind of messing.
Nog you know what Im saying. All it will take is some big business man to lose some deal or make a huge loss from having to hang around in court to have his case struck out.

its the gardas job to follow up on this stuff.. system or not they're paid for it..

TheNog

galwaytt wrote: »

I don't know if contacting the Clerk of the Court about your case in advance would sort this out, maybe Nog could help us out on that one. It's in no-ones interest to have the court houses clogged up with cases like this, and the Garda will be only too-delighted to not have to go, if at all poss.

Contacting the Court Clerk is of no use. Get in touch with the Garda and have a chat. Tell him/her that you didn't know you had to produce ins cert at the station. If you are sound about it and the garda realises that and if you have no other recent or continuous convictions then the Garda may decide to have your case struck out without you being there.

In essence if the Garda is happy with your explanation he/she can accomodate you.

VH

Go to court - it's a mere formality - bring your cert with you which will show you were insured at the time and explain you were never asked to produce it. judge will prob rant on a bit - that's their job and the very fact you are up in court means that you are wrong in some way - and tell you not to do it again and be more careful next time

VH

TheNog wrote: »

That's it. You are so right. We get really pissed off when you produce your ins cert at the roadside. Or do we?

does this constitute impersonating a garda? isnt that an offence?

TheNog

Deleted User wrote: »

I would advise anyone to sit in any district court in the country and observe just what goes on.

Gardai are under pressure to get a "return of work" and issue as many summonses as possible.

Innocent people are then summonsed to court and the cases are struck out.
No conviction but the Garda has more work done on the system.

Sit in court anywhere and watch this its plain and obvious what goes on.

goes on everywhere:
http://www.carlow-nationalist.ie/news/story/?trs=mheyojmhid


http://www.roscommonherald.ie/news/story/?trs=qlsnsnmh



http://www.leitrimobserver.ie/news/Road-traffic-cases-were-most.4315850.jp



http://www.sligoweekender.ie/news/story/?trs=mhgbauqlau



http://archives.tcm.ie/waterfordnews/2008/07/25/story29004.asp





Its only a matter of time before someone takes a case against the state to claim back their expenses and a days work lost from this kind of messing.
Nog you know what Im saying. All it will take is some big business man to lose some deal or make a huge loss from having to hang around in court to have his case struck out.

Ok I see the point you are trying to make here but if you read all the newspaper reports that you have kindly provided links for us you will see that no where is it mentioned that any summons or charges were struck out or dismissed due to the fault of the Gardai.

What could happen in court

1. is if the Judge feels that the Garda evidence is not strong enough then of course the Judge will strike it out but honestly I have seen very few of them. It does happen on occasion but we are only human and do make mistakes.

2. a person is facing many charges/summons and the judge convicts on the more serious charge and dismisses the rest. Example I had a case where I arrested a man for drunk driving, dangerous driving, no insurance, failing to produce insurance, no licence and failing to produce licence. That man was convicted of drunk driving and dangerous driving after he pleaded. I requested the judge strike out the remaining charges which was what the judge was going to do anyway. I knew he was going to convicted of two more serious charges so what would be the point to kicking him while he was down. End of the day he was an alright fella and was gonna be disqualified and fined.

3. the judge feels accused gave a reasonable explanation for a silly mistake such as failing to produce and decided to offer the accused the chance to pay into the poor box or donate to charity so as not have a conviction. THis was reported from the Waterford News ( the last link )/

"Innocent people"??? A Garda is hardly going to summons a person to court when he knows in his heart and soul he will not win. The majority of people that are summons to court are for minor traffic offences only. And if all these people that are going to court and annoyed their cases were struck out and wasting their time, why hasn't anyone tried suing the state yet??

Esel

VH wrote: »

....the very fact you are up in court means that you are wrong in some way....

Wouldn't want you on a jury!

VH

TheNog wrote: »

Even I carry my cert around with me even though I have never been stopped and asked to produce.

thats the give-away - a garda, if stopped, would produce his/her garda ID - not his/her insurance cert

VH

esel wrote: »

Wouldn't want you on a jury!

I'm speaking from experience here!

TheNog

patrickc wrote: »

its your job to follow up when people dont have it with them, its not compulsory stop whining

I wasn't whinging but merely describing the process of summonsing a person who failed to produce.

I do realise it is not compulsory for a driver to have their insurance cert with them but I was just pointing out it is easier for the driver and the Garda if the cert was produced at the roadside.

I don't need my National Diploma in Police Studies to know that but just using some common sense

patrickc wrote: »

see picking on people yet again, typical garda

There is a very good reason for picking on these type of people which I will not go into here. And just to clarify, not all young people or travellers are stopped and searched, just the ones we know cause problems.

patrickc wrote: »

its the gardas job to follow up on this stuff.. system or not they're paid for it..

That's right it is our job, thanks for reminding me that :rolleyes:

TheNog

VH wrote: »

does this constitute impersonating a garda? isnt that an offence?

It is an offence to impersonate a Garda but it is not an offence if you are one!!! :cool:

VH wrote: »

thats the give-away - a garda, if stopped, would produce his/her garda ID - not his/her insurance cert

some gardai might produce his/her badge alright. Happened once to me when I stopped an unmarked drugs car from Dublin. Your man told me it was an unmarked and showed me his badge. He wasn;t best impressed him I did a reg check and personnel check on him too.. Can never be too careful

I don't carry my badge when off duty 'cos there is no need. I have nothing to hide and any checkpoint I'm stopped at I just see myself as like everyone else being stopped. The only time I would identify myself as a mule is if another mule needed assistance.

MunsterCycling

TheNog wrote: »

I don't carry my badge when off duty 'cos there is no need. I have nothing to hide and any checkpoint I'm stopped at I just see myself as like everyone else being stopped. The only time I would identify myself as a mule is if another mule needed assistance.

Em thought you had to carry it at all times as per the Garda regs? Free entry to nightclubs etc

TheNog

TheNog wrote: »

Ok I see the point you are trying to make here but if you read all the newspaper reports that you have kindly provided links for us you will see that no where is it mentioned that any summons or charges were struck out or dismissed due to the fault of the Gardai.

What could happen in court

1. is if the Judge feels that the Garda evidence is not strong enough then of course the Judge will strike it out but honestly I have seen very few of them. It does happen on occasion but we are only human and do make mistakes.

2. a person is facing many charges/summons and the judge convicts on the more serious charge and dismisses the rest. Example I had a case where I arrested a man for drunk driving, dangerous driving, no insurance, failing to produce insurance, no licence and failing to produce licence. That man was convicted of drunk driving and dangerous driving after he pleaded. I requested the judge strike out the remaining charges which was what the judge was going to do anyway. I knew he was going to convicted of two more serious charges so what would be the point to kicking him while he was down. End of the day he was an alright fella and was gonna be disqualified and fined.

3. the judge feels accused gave a reasonable explanation for a silly mistake such as failing to produce and decided to offer the accused the chance to pay into the poor box or donate to charity so as not have a conviction. THis was reported from the Waterford News ( the last link )/

"Innocent people"??? A Garda is hardly going to summons a person to court when he knows in his heart and soul he will not win. The majority of people that are summons to court are for minor traffic offences only. And if all these people that are going to court and annoyed their cases were struck out and wasting their time, why hasn't anyone tried suing the state yet??

The fact of the matter is if you sit in ANY district court you will witness case after case struck out because people HAVE insurance.
I am saying that Gardai knowingly issue summonses to increase their return of work. Its all a numbers game.

markpb

patrickc wrote: »

its your job to follow up when people dont have it with them, its not compulsory stop whining [...] its the gardas job to follow up on this stuff.. system or not they're paid for it..

Would you agree that there aren't enough Gardai on the road enforcing the rules and stopping people from acting the maggot?

If you agree with that, you'll also agree that a Garda sitting in a station typing up a waste of time report would be better off on the street doing their proper job.

bmaxi

Just as an aside, I remember when insurance discs came out first. My car had just died having been very ill for a long time, (Triumph Toledo, POS). Now at the same time a mate of mine's insurance had run out and he couldn't afford to re-insure so he offered the car to me to use while I was looking around. About two weeks later I was stopped at a checkpoint and the Garda told me I could be prosecuted for non display of an insurance disc. I explained that I couldn't display a disc because I didn't own the car but that I was fully covered to drive it under the terms of my own policy." It doesn't matter " he said, "the prosecution is for non-display". I never heard any more, so I presume he thought better of it or wiser heads prevailed but I think it just demonstrates how idiotic the whole thing is. As Nog said the disc only proves that there is a policy in force for the car not that the person behind the wheel is insured to drive it.

VH

TheNog wrote: »

I don't carry my badge when off duty 'cos there is no need.

a garda off duty is still a garda and you are saying you leave your one and only means to prove it at home when off duty?

TheNog wrote:

The only time I would identify myself as a mule is if another mule needed assistance.

this is all getting a bit miami vice - but how can you identify yourself when off duty if you've left the only proof at home?

craichoe

patrickc wrote: »

its your job to follow up when people dont have it with them, its not compulsory stop whining



see picking on people yet again, typical garda



its the gardas job to follow up on this stuff.. system or not they're paid for it..

I'm sure if you were in a public facing job we could rant and nit pick at every comment you make too.

IMO, the Gardai are just doing their Job, its on in their interest to make MORE work for themselves.

ninty9er

Do insurance companies not recommend that your cert not be kept in the car in case of robbery etc... That's the only reason mine is in the household bills and such like folder.

galwaytt

bmaxi wrote: »

....... About two weeks later I was stopped at a checkpoint and the Garda told me I could be prosecuted for non display of an insurance disc. I explained that I couldn't display a disc because I didn't own the car but that I was fully covered to drive it under the terms of my own policy." It doesn't matter " he said, "the prosecution is for non-display". I never heard any more, so I presume he thought better of it or wiser heads prevailed but I think it just demonstrates how idiotic the whole thing is. As Nog said the disc only proves that there is a policy in force for the car not that the person behind the wheel is insured to drive it.

...I well believe. But, and you can test this if you like:

If you transferred your cover to the loan car, even temporarily, you are covered to drive it legally. Now, the disc for your (covering...) policy is your original one - the reg on it is irrelevant. So, if you were to put your original disc (which has your own car's reg) disc on the windscreen, then, you cannot be prosecuted for 'failure to display', as that disc is merely indicative of you holding a policy XXX, which does indeed cover you to drive the 'loaner' car.

Quite clearly, the requirement is that you display a valid insurance disc, the policy under which you are covered to drive the car. In my example above, you would clearly meet that requirement.

The insurance disc itself is not a valid Cert of Insurance under the RTA - which is why there's no use bringing it to the station when given a 'producer', either - and so the issue of the reg no displayed on the disc is actually........irrelevant. The only thing that matters is the policy number. Garda can - as Nog has explained - make a quick -phone call to confirm that policy no and cover. QED.

Look at it this way: how many people have sold/bought/scrapped cars, and forgotten to retrieve/return the discs? Exactly. Because it matters not a jot, in insurance terms.

Or, consider: Fleet policies with multiple vehicles. Same common policy number, and no reg no's on any. The disc is merely to display the policy no.

DaveyGem

luder wrote: »

Exactly...if they really wanted to see if you had insurance on your vehicle a quick vehicle registration check to the station would inform them if you had insurance or not.

Not true. There is no system which the Gardai have/ exists that can check if a car is insured simply by checking the reg. The Garda can of course ring the insurance company and ask. But they do noy have direct access themselves...

Our man in Havana

ninty9er wrote: »

Do insurance companies not recommend that your cert not be kept in the car in case of robbery etc... That's the only reason mine is in the household bills and such like folder.

They do.

For certain people being asked to produce at a station can be a major pain in the hole. The station may not be local or be open at convenient times etc. For these people it saves considerable hassle to have the cert on their person when driving.

TheNog

MunsterCycling wrote: »

Em thought you had to carry it at all times as per the Garda regs? Free entry to nightclubs etc

The Code does recommend to carry it all times and the notebook too for times they may be needed but tbh in this day in age no one carries there notebook. Some do carry their badge and some don't. It is a matter of choice. If any senior officer wanted to have it out with an off duty member without a badge they would have a hard time getting that member disciplined.

Deleted User wrote: »

The fact of the matter is if you sit in ANY district court you will witness case after case struck out because people HAVE insurance.
I am saying that Gardai knowingly issue summonses to increase their return of work. Its all a numbers game.

If a person fails to produce insurance cert within the ten days then we must suspect they may not have insurance. The burden of proof is then on that person to prove they had insurance at the time they were stopped. If they have insurance and prove it then that summons is struck out but they will/can be convicted of failing to produce. Same goes for the driving licence.
Such is the traffic law of this country. Remember Gardai do not create the laws just enforce them.
Next time you are court have a look at the people who produce their documents to the guard before the court begins. YOu will usually see the guard request the judge to strike out the no insurance or no licence summons or else they will wait until after they give evidence and the driver gives his/her explanation and produces the documents and the judge strikes them out. Same thing either way.

The Government has not provided us with a reliable method of checking on insurance.

You should see it as catching those people who are driving without a licence and insurance rather than a numbers game. I think that is reasonable enough.

VH wrote: »

a garda off duty is still a garda and you are saying you leave your one and only means to prove it at home when off duty?

Yes

VH wrote: »

this is all getting a bit miami vice - but how can you identify yourself when off duty if you've left the only proof at home?

Its not miami vice at all. ONly recently I assisted two gardai in apprehending two males who failed to stop at a checkpoint and decided to tear around the town at 100mph. That time was in still in my uniform 'cos I had only returned home from work so the two guards recognised the clothes.

If a guard or even two guards need assistance say with a violent prisoner help is appreciated from anyone able to help. One female member had trouble restraining a prisoner so a member of the public assisted her. These situations do happen from time to time.

Esel

TheNog wrote: »

If a guard or even two guards need assistance say with a violent prisoner help is appreciated from anyone able to help. One female member had trouble restraining a prisoner so a member of the public assisted her. These situations do happen from time to time.

Isn't it an offence not to render assistance if requested by a Garda?

VH

TheNog wrote: »

If a guard or even two guards need assistance say with a violent prisoner help is appreciated from anyone able to help. One female member had trouble restraining a prisoner so a member of the public assisted her. These situations do happen from time to time.

so a member of the public is allowed restrain another member of the public if a garda says so? I have never ever seen this - I have only seen the opposite - gardai telling other members of the public to stay back.

TheNog

esel wrote: »

Isn't it an offence not to render assistance if requested by a Garda?

No it is not an offence and the reason I'm guessing is that if it was law and person was injured helping a guard then that person could in turn sue the state.

VH wrote: »

so a member of the public is allowed restrain another member of the public if a garda says so? I have never ever seen this - I have only seen the opposite - gardai telling other members of the public to stay back.

Yes a person can offer or be requested to help a guard. It is entirely up to that person whether they want to help or not.

More often than not a guard or gardai will have the situation under control and request people to stand back so as not to present a danger to themselves or the guards.

Also a person can detain another who they reasonably believe has commited an indictable crime until such time as the gardai arrive. In the U.S. they call it "Citizen's Arrest".