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insurance summons

ac1977

HI,
A Garda just called to my door, with a summons to court for a non-showing of insurance offence. I was actually stopped for overtaking on a continuous white line, and i didn't have my driver's licence at the time, so I had to produce it at the Garda station, which i did 2 days later.

I had a valid insurance and tax disc when i was stopped, and that was never brought into question at the time by the Garda.

About 2 months ago i received a summons for the same offence for not producing my driver's licence at the station, as requested. I rang the station and it transpired that the Garda typed the wrong name into his system when I went to the station, or somehow entered the wrong details. So at the time the Garda said everything would be sorted, that he would talk to other Garda who stopped me.

The guy who called to my door said that it might have been that the garda asked for my insurance cert(not the disc), which would show my name etc proving that i was the registered owner of the car.

My question is-
Has anyone ever been asked for their insurance cert when they were stopped??
ive never heard of this been asked from anyone!
Can i get this quashed if i explain to the original Garda?

thanks

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Tannylan

i have been stopped a few times and no never been asked to do that

Steve

The Garda's name should be on the summons.
Best bet would be try and contact him directly and try to clear it up.

If that doesn't work and what you say is true then go to court and bring every bit of documentation you have for the car (tax / insurance cert / NCT / license / registration cert) and you should be OK. Also write down every detail you can remember in a notebook - make sure it's correct.

L1011

I was asked to produce my insurance certificate and licence after an RTA that the Guards attended to (I had the disc in the car at the time, and had my licence on me, so I dunno why). But I was specifically asked, and it was stressed to me when I was being reminded what to do at the end.

Our man in Havana

The insurance disc is worthless to the Gardaí. They will always ask to see the full cert. The disc proves nothing.

ac1977

MYOB wrote: »

I was asked to produce my insurance certificate and licence after an RTA that the Guards attended to (I had the disc in the car at the time, and had my licence on me, so I dunno why). But I was specifically asked, and it was stressed to me when I was being reminded what to do at the end.

Yeah, i was never asked for insurance details at any point. He asked first "Are you the registered owner of this vehicle?", to which i replied "yes" which would imply(unless i was lying), that the insurance disc on my windscreen was mine.
Seems ill have to give him a ring and debate it.
thanks

ac1977

Bond-007 wrote: »

The insurance disc is worthless to the Gardaí. They will always ask to see the full cert. The disc proves nothing.

Does anyone really carry the full cert around in the car with them?
Ive never heard of this before!

Our man in Havana

I always carry my cert around. It avoids all that hassle with having to produce at a station that is never open.

Esel

I always carry mine. Makes things go a lot smoother at the roadside.

Steve

Bond-007 wrote: »

The insurance disc is worthless to the Gardaí. They will always ask to see the full cert. The disc proves nothing.

They generally only ask to produce if there is is an incident though or maybe in the OP's case when stopped for an offence so maybe the OP was asked for it and "forgot"?

Bandara

I always carry my insurance cert with my license.

They always ask for it when its obvious they have nothing else to get you on and they are p!ssed off. Very few people seen to carry it so i enjoy their little faces falling when I cheerfully produce it from my glovebox.

Our man in Havana

They love causing you inconvenience by making you take it to the station.

luder

Bond-007 wrote: »

They love causing you inconvenience by making you take it to the station.

Exactly...if they really wanted to see if you had insurance on your vehicle a quick vehicle registration check to the station would inform them if you had insurance or not.

It also states the expiry date, and if the garda requests the insurance company's name also..

Steve

luder wrote: »

Exactly...if they really wanted to see if you had insurance on your vehicle a quick vehicle registration check to the station would inform them if you had insurance or not.

It also states the expiry date, and if the garda requests the insurance company's name also..

Is that true?
I'm not sure.
If it's based on the entries on the motor tax system then its flawed - you can give any old random details when renewing tax, it's not checked against anything.

Our man in Havana

There is a database of insurance details maintained by the Department of transport. Insurance companies do supply them with policy details. I have no idea if the Gardaí have access to it though.

lightyear

Bond-007 wrote: »

They love causing you inconvenience by making you take it to the station.

luder wrote: »

Exactly...if they really wanted to see if you had insurance on your vehicle a quick vehicle registration check to the station would inform them if you had insurance or not.

It also states the expiry date, and if the garda requests the insurance company's name also..

Eh yea, LOVE causing the inconvenience
Whats that all about?!
And no a reg check to the station will not tell ye for definite about the insurance.

TheNog

Hammertime wrote: »

I always carry my insurance cert with my license.

They always ask for it when its obvious they have nothing else to get you on and they are p!ssed off. Very few people seen to carry it so i enjoy their little faces falling when I cheerfully produce it from my glovebox.

That's it. You are so right. We get really pissed off when you produce your ins cert at the roadside. Or do we?
When a person produces their cert to me,

i don;t have to log it in my notebook,
i don;t hvae to ask you where you will produce it,
i don't have to log your details in the station (cos there is a good chance I will be working in the station when yuo produce therefore giving me more work to do) and
I don't have to check at a later date that you did or didn't produce.

If a person didn't produce then

I would have to create an incident,
have it reviewed,
create summons,
get summons stamped at the district court,
create report sheet,
send report and summons to sergeant's office for forwarding to a member to be served,
member serves it,
gets it signed by a Peace Commisioner,
lodge it into district court clerk or send it back to me directly,
I have to track the summons to ensure it is served on time and then
I have to appear in court.

See your happy little silly face at the roadside is nothing compared to my happiness that actually had the cert there and then. Even I carry my cert around with me even though I have never been stopped and asked to produce.

But hey you continue on believing that you have scored a little victory even though you haven't really and I will continue doing my job.

Bond-007 wrote: »

They love causing you inconvenience by making you take it to the station.

as above chances are you will be producing the cert to me at my station and I am only too happy to see cos I have a 100 and 1 things to do besides.

luder wrote: »

Exactly...if they really wanted to see if you had insurance on your vehicle a quick vehicle registration check to the station would inform them if you had insurance or not.

It also states the expiry date, and if the garda requests the insurance company's name also..

Reg check sometimes does give you a ins policy but it is not reliable therefore that is why you are asked to produce the cert to prove you are insured. The disc on your windscreen only proves the car is insured but not who is insured on it.

Bond-007 wrote: »

There is a database of insurance details maintained by the Department of transport. Insurance companies do supply them with policy details. I have no idea if the Gardaí have access to it though.

Unfortunately not. I believe the insurance details on PULSE are got from the Motor Tax office but are not reliable.

lightyear wrote: »

Eh yea, LOVE causing the inconvenience
Whats that all about?!
And no a reg check to the station will not tell ye for definite about the insurance.

Exactly

-Chris-

TheNog wrote: »

That's it. You are so right. We get really pissed off when you produce your ins cert at the roadside. Or do we...

...but hey you continue on believing that you have scored a little victory even though you haven't really and I will continue doing my job.

LOL, nice answer!

Bandara

Wow, a Garda who is actually competent at his job.

I applaud you sir.

Well done.

Our man in Havana

+1

You are a credit to the force sir.

As a matter of interest what % produce an insurance cert at the roadside?

January

Gardai ring insurance companies all the time asking for information about cars that are insured/aren't insured.

We cannot give them information for "Data Protection Reasons".

That seems to piss some Gardai off (note I said "some") and then they try to take it out on the insurance company for not giving out the info.

TheNog

Bond-007 wrote: »

As a matter of interest what % produce an insurance cert at the roadside?

not many can produce at the roadside but it is usually the ones that get stopped frequently such as young fellas and travellers. Some of the young fellas do bitch about having to produce all the time.

adrieanne__x wrote: »

Gardai ring insurance companies all the time asking for information about cars that are insured/aren't insured.

We cannot give them information for "Data Protection Reasons".

That seems to piss some Gardai off (note I said "some") and then they try to take it out on the insurance company for not giving out the info.

Has happened to me but not often. Usually just ask to confirm details rather than actually seek new information.

I find that if I am nice to the person on the phone they will be nice back

Our man in Havana

Thanks The Nog, I was not trying to be sarcastic or trying to get a victory over the Gardaí. The last Garda that asked me for my insurance cert was genuinely surprised when I reached into the glove and took out all my docs. He had already said "what station do want to produce at?"

I always carry my docs as I don't know where I will be able to produce them as I am always on the road and I never know more than a day or two in advance where I will be at.

galwaytt

++1 to The Nog - thank god someone is talking common sense.

OP - the event I presume you are summonsed for is non-production of insurance, not 'no insurance' - there is a subtle difference. 99% of the time, one goes in hand with the other. It would appear here though, not here.

Take a pill -
1. Go to station with your supporting information, and explain that you were covered, but don't remember being asked to produce it. If things are too far down the road, summons-wise, there might be little he can do, so......

2. If you end up in court, explain your case - you were covered, and did produce that which you thought you were asked. Have your info with you. Consult with the Garda before you are called up - the Judge may ask the Garda if you've subsequently produced the necessary to his satisfaction, but you were outside the time allowed.

It is not uncommon to have cases like this dismissed, as the issue is administrative.....

I don't know if contacting the Clerk of the Court about your case in advance would sort this out, maybe Nog could help us out on that one. It's in no-ones interest to have the court houses clogged up with cases like this, and the Garda will be only too-delighted to not have to go, if at all poss.

[Deleted User]

I would advise anyone to sit in any district court in the country and observe just what goes on.

Gardai are under pressure to get a "return of work" and issue as many summonses as possible.

Innocent people are then summonsed to court and the cases are struck out.
No conviction but the Garda has more work done on the system.

Sit in court anywhere and watch this its plain and obvious what goes on.

goes on everywhere:
http://www.carlow-nationalist.ie/news/story/?trs=mheyojmhid

ALMOST half of all road-traffic prosecutions taken by the gardaí to Carlow District Court in 2007 were thrown out of court.

http://www.roscommonherald.ie/news/story/?trs=qlsnsnmh

A TOTAL of 2,692 road traffic offences were dealt with by judges in County Roscommon courts last year, with 39 prison sentences handed down and 1,039 fines imposed.

Nine community service orders were imposed while a total of 1,266 road traffic cases were struck out

http://www.leitrimobserver.ie/news/Road-traffic-cases-were-most.4315850.jp

Over 42% of cases were struck out

http://www.sligoweekender.ie/news/story/?trs=mhgbauqlau

ALMOST half the road traffic cases that were due before Sligo District Court last year were dismissed or struck out, according to recently released figures.

http://archives.tcm.ie/waterfordnews/2008/07/25/story29004.asp

THE Annual Report of the Courts Service shows that Waterford’s District Court heard mainly cases about road traffic offences and that in 2007 the majority of them were struck out.

Statistics issued show that 6,094 road traffic cases came before the District Court, with 3,438 (just over 56%) of them being struck out

Its only a matter of time before someone takes a case against the state to claim back their expenses and a days work lost from this kind of messing.
Nog you know what Im saying. All it will take is some big business man to lose some deal or make a huge loss from having to hang around in court to have his case struck out.

Steve

Deleted User wrote: »

Its only a matter of time before someone takes a case against the state to claim back their expenses and a days work lost from this kind of messing.
Nog you know what Im saying. All it will take is some big business man to lose some deal or make a huge loss from having to hang around in court to have his case struck out.

AFAIK, you can't claim any costs even if falsely accused by a guard. I'm not 100% on this but have heard it more than once from a solicitor. I believe you can only claim costs in a civil case (i.e. not prosecuted by the state).

Our man in Havana

You are 100% correct. You cannot recover any of your costs in a criminal case.

patrickc

TheNog wrote: »

That's it. You are so right. We get really pissed off when you produce your ins cert at the roadside. Or do we?
When a person produces their cert to me,
i don;t have to log it in my notebook,

i don;t hvae to ask you where you will produce it,

i don't have to log your details in the station (cos there is a good chance I will be working in the station when yuo produce therefore giving me more work to do) and

I don't have to check at a later date that you did or didn't produce.

If a person didn't produce then
I would have to create an incident,

have it reviewed,

create summons,

get summons stamped at the district court,

create report sheet,

send report and summons to sergeant's office for forwarding to a member to be served,

member serves it,

gets it signed by a Peace Commisioner,

lodge it into district court clerk or send it back to me directly,

I have to track the summons to ensure it is served on time and then

I have to appear in court.

See your happy little silly face at the roadside is nothing compared to my happiness that actually had the cert there and then. Even I carry my cert around with me even though I have never been stopped and asked to produce.

But hey you continue on believing that you have scored a little victory even though you haven't really and I will continue doing my job.

as above chances are you will be producing the cert to me at my station and I am only too happy to see cos I have a 100 and 1 things to do besides.

Reg check sometimes does give you a ins policy but it is not reliable therefore that is why you are asked to produce the cert to prove you are insured. The disc on your windscreen only proves the car is insured but not who is insured on it.

Unfortunately not. I believe the insurance details on PULSE are got from the Motor Tax office but are not reliable.

Exactly

its your job to follow up when people dont have it with them, its not compulsory stop whining

TheNog wrote: »

not many can produce at the roadside but it is usually the ones that get stopped frequently such as young fellas and travellers. Some of the young fellas do bitch about having to produce all the time.

see picking on people yet again, typical garda

Deleted User wrote: »

I would advise anyone to sit in any district court in the country and observe just what goes on.

Gardai are under pressure to get a "return of work" and issue as many summonses as possible.

Innocent people are then summonsed to court and the cases are struck out.
No conviction but the Garda has more work done on the system.

Sit in court anywhere and watch this its plain and obvious what goes on.

goes on everywhere:

Its only a matter of time before someone takes a case against the state to claim back their expenses and a days work lost from this kind of messing.
Nog you know what Im saying. All it will take is some big business man to lose some deal or make a huge loss from having to hang around in court to have his case struck out.

its the gardas job to follow up on this stuff.. system or not they're paid for it..

TheNog

galwaytt wrote: »

I don't know if contacting the Clerk of the Court about your case in advance would sort this out, maybe Nog could help us out on that one. It's in no-ones interest to have the court houses clogged up with cases like this, and the Garda will be only too-delighted to not have to go, if at all poss.

Contacting the Court Clerk is of no use. Get in touch with the Garda and have a chat. Tell him/her that you didn't know you had to produce ins cert at the station. If you are sound about it and the garda realises that and if you have no other recent or continuous convictions then the Garda may decide to have your case struck out without you being there.

In essence if the Garda is happy with your explanation he/she can accomodate you.

Go to court - it's a mere formality - bring your cert with you which will show you were insured at the time and explain you were never asked to produce it. judge will prob rant on a bit - that's their job and the very fact you are up in court means that you are wrong in some way - and tell you not to do it again and be more careful next time

TheNog wrote: »

That's it. You are so right. We get really pissed off when you produce your ins cert at the roadside. Or do we?

does this constitute impersonating a garda? isnt that an offence?