World DTL Championships in Esker

Sparks

From the ICPSA website:

World DTL Championships-Day 1

An Taoiseach Brian Cowan receives a presentation from Pat Donaghy

Day one of the 8th World DTL Championships started at approx. 8.15 am on Thursday 21st August at Esker Shooting Grounds, Co. Galway and ended well into the dusk for some of the competitors.

Unusually of late, sunshine was the general order of the day apart from the odd sporadic shower which failed to dampen spirits even among the southern hemisphere participants who are used to slightly sunnier and warmer climates.


The gusting wind while it did help to cool things slightly was changeable in direction and did affect the targets on occasion to the cost of some shooters on the day.


On site Laporte technical personnel were also kept very busy attempting to keep the trap and acoustic equipment functioning efficiently in order that the field of almost 700 competitors could shoot their first day quota of 100 targets.


Day one concluded with a banquet for attending National Team members at the Shannon Oaks Hotel, Portumna, Co. Galway which was jointly hosted by Esker Shooting Grounds and the ICPSA.


The occasion was fortunate to have An Taoiseach Brian Cowan as guest of honour and following the official introductory speech by Ewan Plenderleith, An Taoiseach said a few welcoming words before everyone sat down to an excellent meal.


The second half of the evening saw ICPSA Chairman Edmond O’Hara take the microphone after which Pat Donaghy made a presentation on behalf of the Association and grounds to each visiting National Team.


Following this, the newly elected International Clay Target Shooting Federation President Ewan Pirrie from New Zealand presented the Mackintosh DTL Postal Match awards as it was possibly the first occasion that most of the winning Teams were present for the ceremony and it was also an historic occasion as it was the first presentation of the accolades under the newly constituted ICTSF.


Full results from the Championships will be posted as they become available and the day one Team standings are available below as a download attachment.

Sparks

Covered in the Irish Times today:

Shooters from around the world gunning it out for glory in Esker

CLAY PIGEON SHOOTING: AS THE 2008 Beijing Olympics wind down, another only slightly less hotly anticipated international sports event is getting under way on the banks of the river Shannon.

The eighth bi-annual World DTL Clay Pigeon Shooting Championships opened under ominous skies at Esker Shooting Ground on the Galway-Offaly border yesterday.

The event, which is being held in Ireland for the first time, has attracted almost 700 entrants from 13 countries. A total prize fund of at least €22,600 is up for grabs, with €5,000 going to the overall winner, to be decided on Saturday.

Countries represented include Britain, France, Germany, Sweden, South Africa, New Zealand and Australia.

Despite its low profile, DTL (or Down The Line) is a very competitive discipline within clay pigeon shooting. Irish team member Jim Doherty from Donegal estimates that he drove 3,800 miles around Ireland in qualifiers alone.

He was full of praise for the facilities at Esker, saying they are as good as he has seen in Europe.

His friend Henderson Hume of Northern Ireland, a world champion in 2004, agreed.

Four years ago, Hume won the overall title in England, by scoring 300 on three successive days. (This involved hitting every target with his first shot, equivalent to a snooker player achieving a 147 break in every frame.)

Asked how they hoped to fare today, neither was too forthcoming. The standard here is so high, Doherty explained, that even a score as high as 295 would probably put one out of contention. Hume agreed. Total concentration is required over the three-hour shoot, he said.

The slightest distraction costs targets. As he spoke, two young members of the French ladies team turned heads as they sauntered by in chic white tracksuits.

The Irish Army have lent the organisers 10 tents for the duration of the championships.

It is here that many competitors huddled to avoid the early rain. Body warmers, baseball caps and ear muffs were the order of the day.

Double-barrelled shotguns, broken and unloaded in accordance with the law, were slung over most shoulders.

In one of the tents, breakfast rolls and curry chips were being served up.

Tracey Barton (18) from Canberra is one of the youngest members of the Australian team. From a family of champions in the sport, she has been shooting competitively for six years. But while she's enjoying her visit to Ireland, she's not so taken with the weather.

Her team-mate Lars Vager even speculated that the conditions - wind, rain and ever-changing light - might be an advantage to the host nation.

Irish team members, though, rejected that assertion, good naturedly wondering if mind games might not be at work. All participants compete in the same conditions, they said. Luckily, by mid-afternoon, the weather was considerably brighter.

About 2,000 spectators are expected over the next two days and facilities at Esker have been expanded to accommodate the influx, with a €1 million extension by local architect Donal Burke officially opened this week.

The number of firing shelters has been increased from six to 16.

It is hoped the expanded range will serve as a satellite centre for the shooting competitions at the 2012 Olympic Games.

© 2008 The Irish Times

foxhunter

Good to see some positive press.

Valter

foxhunter wrote: »

Good to see some positive press.

Agreed foxhunter, and with good people like Sparks spreading the word and keeping us informed it will get beter, well done Sparks

pullandbang

foxhunter wrote: »

Good to see some positive press.

Just as well they focussed on the positive and not the negative.
I'm just back from refereeing at it and unfortunately all was not well:(

The grounds is probably the best in the British Isles but the problems with the acoustics left most shooters feeling very disgruntled.

I felt very sorry for the many shooters who had travelled half way round the world to be presented with targets that left a lot to be desired. The guys from Laporte (Trap Suppliers) spent their days up and down the lines tinkering with the acoustics trying to get them right but it just didn't happen. It must be the only World Championships where there wasn't a 100/300 posted over 3 days of competition and nearly 700 guns!

All in all, it left us, the Irish with egg on our face:mad:

Vegeta

Sorry P&B but what are the acoustics you mention and how do they effect the shooters?

gofaster_s13

What was the problem with the accoustics, were they being affected by wind/rain or some other factor ??

gofaster_s13

Vegeta wrote: »

Sorry P&B but what are the acoustics you mention and how do they effect the shooters?

The traps are triggered accoustically, you shout pull and a microphone picks it up and triggers the trap which rules out the need for a button man.

Vegeta

gofaster_s13 wrote: »

The traps are triggered accoustically, you shout pull and a microphone picks it up and triggers the trap which rules out the need for a button man.

Cool, don't shoot many clays but that sounds well posh

Does every shooter have a mic at the firing point they are standing at or is it a 1 mic in the middle kind of thing?

gofaster_s13

Each stand has a mic, can be problematic if not set properly last accoustically controlled shoot I was at, traps were being triggered by empty shells been thrown into the bins which can be offputting to the next person on the line.

Rovi

gofaster_s13 wrote: »

The traps are triggered accoustically, you shout pull and a microphone picks it up and triggers the trap which rules out the need for a button man.

Aaaaaaaaaahhhh!
That explains the peculiar "Ba!" sound the U.S. shooter was making in the final of the Women's Skeet at the Olympiacs.
They were all saying odd 'words', but I was putting it down to it being their language's version of 'Pull'; I was puzzled as to why a shooter whose native language was English wasn't saying 'Pull.' :rolleyes:

She was reminding me of the nun in the rubella ad from years ago.

Sparks

From the ICPSA website:

World DTL Championships-Final Results

The 8th World DTL Championships concluded on Saturday 23rd August at Esker Shooting Grounds with the crowning of a series of new Champions across the various categories and classes.

Unfortunately the good weather of the proceeding two days deserted the venue towards the end and rain suits and umbrellas were the order of the day.


An Taoiseach Brian Cowan was in attendance and observed the many shoot offs with great interest before firing the concluding shots of the Championships and he also graciously presented the medals and awards to the many worthy recipients on the day.


All eyes will now move to Cape Town and the 9th World DTL Championships in 2010.

pullandbang

gofaster_s13 wrote: »

What was the problem with the accoustics, were they being affected by wind/rain or some other factor ??

They were not being affected by the weather - it was the programming of them by the laporte people. Basically they weren't programmed properly which left the shooters getting no birds, slow birds, fast birds and multiple birds!

Every shooter got non regulation targets and this really pissed people off and it was a nightmare to referee. It wasn't too bad on the second day because they were programmed properly on Thursday night - why that wasn't done in the preceeding week is beyond me!

It was that bad, the German team left after day one - mind you, they left their towels on the stands:D

cavan shooter

pullandbang wrote: »

It was that bad, the German team left after day one - mind you, they left their towels on the stands:D

That doesn't sound good for ICPSA does it..

gofaster_s13

cavan shooter wrote: »

That doesn't sound good for ICPSA does it..

Makes Laporte look bad as well.

TrapperJohn

cavan shooter wrote: »

That doesn't sound good for ICPSA does it..

I think I'm right in saying it was not the ICPSA who administered or ran the event but one that was awarded to Esker Shooting Grounds and run entriely by them.

bayliner

heard the germansleft cause the portaloos werent being emptied:D:D
wonder is it true or just crap??:D:D:D:D

jwshooter

bayliner wrote: »

heard the germansleft cause the portaloos werent being emptied:D:D
wonder is it true or just crap??:D:D:D:D

true no loo roll also only one skip i have been told it was a disgrace and 70 or 75 euro for a slab of shells a lot of shooters left and would not shoot on day two , only for irish team members and irish shooters giving a hand it would have been worse i reckon we have not heard the last of it ,and rightly so

pullandbang

TrapperJohn wrote: »

I think I'm right in saying it was not the ICPSA who administered or ran the event but one that was awarded to Esker Shooting Grounds and run entriely by them.

I'm not 100% sure who was running it - ICPSA or Esker.

I think it was being run by the ICPSA or possibly the new international organisation that was formed, but Esker took the profit! There was an Aussie lady and Matt Sheedy working as "Shoot Marshalls" on the day.

Matt didn't even get to shoot he was that busy.

One comment that was made to me by an English shooter was that it was a disgrace that in an international competition there were no international refs - they were all Irish. According to him he witnessed a squad of Irish shooters getting 16 birds back as no birds, followed by a squad of English shooters getting none back - despite the fact that the targets were just as bad as the previous squad's.
Whether he did or not, there still should have been a pool of foreign refs even if it was only to ref the international teams.

JW mentioned in another post the price of cartridges was €280 / 1,000 - that was a real rip off. Those shells were only worth €180/€200 which would have been enough. Overseas shooters were screwed because they had to buy them at the grounds. I also heard that people were charged €30 per night for gun storage - another rip off.:mad:

In all fairness to Esker......the loos were emptied!!!!

cavan shooter

If it is as bad as it is being reported I would hope a full investigation is carried out and something comes from it.

Ireland and clay shooting in Ireland needs big events like this to get higher profile, but from what you guys are reporting a local gun club flapper shoot is run more professionally. Pity such a chance was wasted:(

Duster

I was at the World DTL Event. Even now, a week later it is still nearly impossible to find words to describe what a shambles it was

Some that have been coming to mind over the last week... arrogance, embarrassing, frustrating, unprofessional, botch job...and I think you get the picture ! :mad::mad::mad:

Some things that were going on just rubbed shooters up the wrong way. It was well and good getting our Taoiseach there for the presentations and banquet but if the same effort was expended in getting adequate numbers of referees and markers (who knew how to mark or knew what a score card was) in place it might have taken the edge off the frustration felt by many who I spoke to. There were loads of other issues as well mentioned in previous posts so no point in going over them again.

It would appear the size of the task in running an event of that size was seriously under estimated, not something I think will be required in the same location for quite a while...dare I say...A lesson learned maybe

It should have been a showcase for Ireland and for shooting but unfortunately it fell well short of that.

Rovi

All the above sounds most disappointing, and it all looks like something of a PR disaster.

I'll be very interested to read the report on this that will I'm sure, appear in the ISD in due course, and also any official reports or statements from the organisers.

Is there any feedback anywhere on the Interweb from the overseas shooters, does anyone know?

cavan shooter

Here is a start in relation to the comments

http://www.trapshooters.com/cfpages/thread.cfm?threadid=163780&Messages=14

trapmando

Absolute disaster for Irish Shooting, not just Trap either! This has put Irish shooting back 30-50 years. Like someone said there is better run flapper shoots around the country. This was the once in a lifetime chance to put irish shooting on the map and we ripped them off and gave them crap shooting. €3.50 for a bottle of water, €150 for 500 shells!

The acoustics have been giving constant problems for the past 2 years but no one would listen. If u complained, u were told ure not calling right or a troublemaker and treated with contempt by management! Then only 2/3 weeks before the world they decide to change them!

ICPSA have to take a lot of blame too, how could they let such a sham go ahead the way it did?

It was great to see a lot of the top DTL shooters there in person rather than in a magazine, but they were walking around shaking their heads with a smile, expecting 'u've been framed' to pop out!!!

There was talk about putting in OT layouts and even holding an OT World Cup event there!!! Yeah maybe in the year 2108!

Just seems to have been a massive money making exercise for someone (?who) at Irish Shootings expense!

trapmando

I think Paul Chaplow's comments sums the whole thing up...

'But regarding the world championships that have just passed the poor scores were down to bad light / visibility conditions. And the pig headedness of the ground owner he wouldnt take advise off anybody or our governing bodies etc'

and he's one of the best DTL'ers around!

pullandbang

Duster wrote: »

but if the same effort was expended in getting adequate numbers of referees and markers (who knew how to mark or knew what a score card was)

How was this for marking!

Squad comes in to shoot their first 25 and ref asks them to clear their guns which they all duly do.

Then he starts the competition and turns to the "marker" to find 5 big X's against each shooter's name - they got a lost each target for clearing their guns:o:o

(For those who don't know - "clearing your gun" is basically firing a shot out the range at nothing just to warm up)

Or what about the "markers" who gave 2's when a shooter broke the clay with the first barrel and then shot one of the bits with the second.
They weren't listening to the refs call the scores, they were watching themselves and marking what they thought they saw!

jwshooter

pullandbang wrote: »

How was this for marking!

Squad comes in to shoot their first 25 and ref asks them to clear their guns which they all duly do.

Then he starts the competition and turns to the "marker" to find 5 big X's against each shooter's name - they got a lost each target for clearing their guns:o:o

(For those who don't know - "clearing your gun" is basically firing a shot out the range at nothing just to warm up)

Or what about the "markers" who gave 2's when a shooter broke the clay with the first barrel and then shot one of the bits with the second.
They weren't listening to the refs call the scores, they were watching themselves and marking what they thought they saw!

you are joking you have to be . heard there is bigger trouble a brewn for a lad

trapmando

Tell us more jwshooter!

pullandbang

jwshooter wrote: »

you are joking you have to be . heard there is bigger trouble a brewn for a lad

Nope - wish I was!

It gets better - I heard of another young marker who fell asleep while marking:eek::eek:

I had one with me who missed what I called for the No 2 shooter's first clay and stopped marking any more. It had come around again for No. 2 to shoot when out of the corner of my eye I see my marker gesticulating at me. Looked at the card and he had nothing marked! I had to ask each gun what he had just shot:o

To be fair to the markers, they didn't know what they were doing and they were totally inexperienced, unprepared but they tried their best. Some of them were spot on and made no mistakes.

The real problem at the event was the bad targets - if they were right all else would be forgiven.

jwshooter

pullandbang wrote: »

Nope - wish I was!

It gets better - I heard of another young marker who fell asleep while marking:eek::eek:

I had one with me who missed what I called for the No 2 shooter's first clay and stopped marking any more. It had come around again for No. 2 to shoot when out of the corner of my eye I see my marker gesticulating at me. Looked at the card and he had nothing marked! I had to ask each gun what he had just shot:o

To be fair to the markers, they didn't know what they were doing and they were totally inexperienced, unprepared but they tried their best. Some of them were spot on and made no mistakes.

The real problem at the event was the bad targets - if they were right all else would be forgiven.

the markers should have not been there in the first place if they did know what there doing ,this was a world event .if i was shooting dtl i would not set foot in the place ever again . he made a lot of money i hope he spends it wisely

Sparks

Careful folks; criticising the event's fair game, but remember the rule against making any allegations about named individuals...

pullandbang

jwshooter wrote: »

the markers should have not been there in the first place if they did know what there doing ,this was a world event .

Agree totally. They should have been trained properly and not just given a once over the night before. There was a whole week of shooting before the main event where the markers could have practised and got things right. For most of them it was the first time they'd seen a clay!

Ditto for the traps and acoustics - a whole week beforehand to get them spot on.

trapmando

dont worry jwshooter, judging by the DTL shooters I've spoken to, they wont be setting foot in it again! Esker had it all it's own way this year. Big numbers of squads turning up all year because the Worlds were coming up there.

This coming year, after the way shooters (not just DTL) were treated, plus the fact that shooting has got a lot dearer anyway, Esker could be a lot quieter place!

But like u say, they made their money, perhaps they couldn't care less now and the less people that go there, the better for them. Then they can use that excuse to close it!

pullandbang

trapmando wrote: »

But like u say, they made their money, perhaps they couldn't care less now and the less people that go there, the better for them. Then they can use that excuse to close it!

I have to say that I don't begrudge anyone making money and I certainly wouldn't like to see it close. That competition was an opportunity to make money for any shoot owner - but, and it's a big but, not by giving bad value for money! Nobody would have complained about the price of anything if the targets were right - especially the people who travelled from the four corners of the world!

Esker is probably one of the best shooting grounds in the British Isles and it's a pleasure to shoot in - except for the bad targets. I know thats a contradiction, but the facilities, stands, layouts etc are second to none.

I hope that shooters will not stay away in big numbers and force a closure because we need facilities like Esker and they are few and far between. Personally I think he should dump those Laporte traps and acoustics, and put back in the Promatics with the Elphipa acoustics - they worked fine for the past few years. I notice that there is now a row of trees planted in front of the brown peat bank. That will improve the background considerably by next year which was always a bone of contention.

Kramer

Esker is in Ireland i.e. not in/part of the British Isles :rolleyes:.

Rovi

Kramer wrote: »

Esker is in Ireland i.e. not in/part of the British Isles :rolleyes:.

That particular row can go HERE.

billy bunter

As being one of those shooters from away. [MOD EDIT: Removing content pointing the finger at someone who's probably readily identifiable]

There is not a good word to say about the shoot, no i tell a lie the Gunness was good.
I will come back to Ireland one day but will never set foot at esker again.
Like one man said i went to a flapper at bir which was more enjoyable.

pullandbang

billy bunter wrote: »

Esker was a down right ####up.

Sums it up!

billy bunter wrote: »

There is not a good word to say about the shoot, no i tell a lie the Gunness was good.

Probably overpriced too!

billy bunter wrote: »

I will come back to Ireland one day but will never set foot at esker again.
Like one man said i went to a flapper at bir which was more enjoyable.

Hopefully next time, (if there is a next time) things will be better. Hope the Guinness is as good in Capetown in 2010:)

jwshooter

billy bunter wrote: »

As being one of those shooters from away. [MOD EDIT: Removing content pointing the finger at someone who's probably readily identifiable]

There is not a good word to say about the shoot, no i tell a lie the Gunness was good.
I will come back to Ireland one day but will never set foot at esker again.
Like one man said i went to a flapper at bir which was more enjoyable.

billy as a shooter i have shot for ireland many times and have enjoyed some days i will never forget .i am sorry for you and the rest of the shooter than came from a far that you cant say the same about the worlds this year ,it should have been a show case for the icpsa and ireland but it was not .please e mail your thoughts to the icpsa i thing they will be glad to hear it from you regards jw

TrapperJohn

jwshooter wrote: »

show case for the icpsa and ireland but it was not .please e mail your thoughts to the icpsa i thing they will be glad to hear it from you regards jw

I don't think anyone needs to tell the ICPSA anything about Esker that they don't already know. A few things worth noting, the ICPSA do not run shoots, its the clubs and shooting grounds that do! Esker got the job of running the Worlds and by all indications it looked like they were making great efforts to do so by putting in 16 layouts etc. I saw no criticism on these forums or anywhere else before the start of the Championships and there has been shoots running in Esker just about every week for the last year.

The running of the shot was down to Esker, the organising and staffing of the shoot was down to Esker. I don't think the ICPSA even got a penny out of Esker for this shoot and lets face it lads, who complained to the ICPSA BEFORE the shoot that the place was not up to standards?

Hindsight is always perfect so let the criticism lie with Esker where it belongs and give the ICPSA the credit for getting the World Championships here in the first place.

pullandbang

TrapperJohn wrote: »

Hindsight is always perfect so let the criticism lie with Esker where it belongs and give the ICPSA the credit for getting the World Championships here in the first place.

+1 for that.

I suspect that most shooters from these islands know where the problems lay and wouldn't lay too much blame with the ICPSA. I'm not sure about the shooters from the Southern Hemisphere or the Continent, and where they feel the buck stops. I wonder what their perception of the ICPSA is?

jwshooter

pullandbang wrote: »

+1 for that.

I suspect that most shooters from these islands know where the problems lay and wouldn't lay too much blame with the ICPSA. I'm not sure about the shooters from the Southern Hemisphere or the Continent, and where they feel the buck stops. I wonder what their perception of the ICPSA is?

we all like to bitch but how many sent a e mail to the icpsa ,none i would think .dont lep on me im pro icpsa but they can not say a word if the shooters do not .you all parted with your 125 euro so have your say

TrapperJohn

jwshooter wrote: »

you all parted with your 125 euro so have your say

Why dont you email esker? It was esker who took your 125 euro not the ICPSA. I hear the guys at esker think the shoot was a great success!, if you think otherwise tell them.

In all honesty what can the ICPSA do about it now? Spilt milk cant be put back into the bottle. Did anyone complain to the ICPSA before the event? I dont think so.

We all wish things had run better in esker but lets face facts here, what happened at esker was eskers fault and no one elses. Will it happen again, who knows? Will the powers that be seek more reassurance from ground owners in future, probably. Will ground owners still make a mess of big shoots, very likely.

pull!the other

Having watched the debate since the World's, I cannot help but think that while many people seem to have a lot to say on the matter I wonder how many have taken the option of complaining to the event organisers, Esker Shooting Grounds?
If they do not get complaints then Esker can try and reverse the quote to say "absence of proof is proof of absence" with regard to anything being wrong.
And for good measure while it was not and never was an ICPSA shoot why not copy your complaint to the ICPSA anyway?

pullandbang

pull!the other wrote: »

I wonder how many have taken the option of complaining to the event organisers, Esker Shooting Grounds?
If they do not get complaints then Esker can try and reverse the quote to say "absence of proof is proof of absence" with regard to anything being wrong.

Quite a few people have taken the option, both verbally and in writing - the comment book at the shoot apparently was scathing.
And for those who complained verbally, they were basically told if they didn't like it - tough! Two friends of mine who complained about the targets prior to the main event were told they needn't bother coming to the grounds.

TJ - The entry was €180, not €125 - I think JW's €125 is the ICPSA membership.

TrapperJohn

pullandbang wrote: »

TJ - The entry was €180, not €125 - I think JW's €125 is the ICPSA membership.

Apologies, I wasnt at the shoot, work gets in the way too much these days so I took it the 125 refered to the entry fee.

I still think that the only way to approach this is as pulltheother says is to address the criticism directly to esker.

trapmando

"Quite a few people have taken the option, both verbally and in writing - the comment book at the shoot apparently was scathing.
And for those who complained verbally, they were basically told if they didn't like it - tough! Two friends of mine who complained about the targets prior to the main event were told they needn't bother coming to the grounds. "

I can concur totally with 'pullandbang' above! I know poeple who complained too and it fell on less than deaf ears to put it mildly.

The comments book, if read by Esker, will leave Esker in no doubt about how unsuccessful the event was!

Someone commented here that the ICPSA got the World DTL and Esker then hosted it. Was it not Esker that went out and got it themselves? I dont remember a tendering process by the ICPSA to see who would host it like they have done with the Home Countries Internationals in recent years?

I'd say that a new National Shooting Grounds will be up for grabs in the not too distant future, perhaps Esker was being lined up as a successor due to it's central location? (is there a v strong link between ICPSA and ESKER?) The Mountain a fore runner now! Always friendly and they listen down there, just a bit out of the way though for most of the country.

TrapperJohn

trapmando wrote: »

"Someone commented here that the ICPSA got the World DTL and Esker then hosted it. Was it not Esker that went out and got it themselves?

My fault again, I though the ICPSA might have had an input in securing the competition judging from the photos on their website. If esker got this shoot on their own then I cant see what the ICPSA can be held accountable for here?

My concern here on reading this thread initially was that I saw the ICPSA been dragged into a row about how a shoot was run and the implication that it is up to the ICPSA to sort the mess out. Im not connected to the management of the ICPSA but I think they are doing a great job in difficult times. From personal experience they dont appear to get enough support from their membership which I think is an awful pity and a bit of an inditement of how some shooters see their ngb as being their to serve them personally rather than their sport as a whole.

trapmando wrote: »

I'd say that a new National Shooting Grounds will be up for grabs in the not too distant future, perhaps Esker was being lined up as a successor due to it's central location? (is there a v strong link between ICPSA and ESKER?) The Mountain a fore runner now! Always friendly and they listen down there, just a bit out of the way though for most of the country.

I dont think any ground will get that distinction as none of them can run all the shooting disciplines of the ICPSA. Ashbourne calling itself the national shooting ground is more of an historical hangover.

I would be very surprised if the ICPSA had any greater a connection with esker than it does with any other shooting grounds. From observation there are people connected with logues hill, monaghan and one or two other grounds I think serving on the executive and I doubt any ground gets favourable treatment. Those guys on the executive are far too straight to even think that.

trapmando

Apologies for bringing this topic up again, i know it's best forgotten about. At least the ICPSA apologised in the Digest this month for it, fair dues. The shooters have voted with their feet in avoiding the place like the plague (5 squads at the last shoot there with 20 up the road at Kirwan's on the same day!). I hear now all ground problems have been solved there and their is even a free practice trap open to all!!! someone's feeling the heat!

Finally, I heard that there was a very serious safety incident at the World DTL involving an Irish shooter. Someone was supposed to be banned for life from the ICPSA over it but i seen them shooting last weekend so I dont know if it has been brushed under the carpet or what. Anyone else hear anything else?

bayliner

trapmando wrote: »

Finally, I heard that there was a very serious safety incident at the World DTL involving an Irish shooter. Someone was supposed to be banned for life from the ICPSA over it but i seen them shooting last weekend so I dont know if it has been brushed under the carpet or what. Anyone else hear anything else?

also heard of the incident but didnt hear of any reaction....it was as if it happened but no one said anything about it(officially)

trapmando

There's no way they could possibly brush such an incident under the carpet. I have heard it definitely happened from many sources and it was as serious as it gets. Also that he agreed to be banned for life from the org as long as it didn't go any further. It's not the first time that the individual involved done something either. The guy is a head case and always has been (know him 20 years), I certainly wouldn't shoot on a line with him. What if he injures (or worse) in the future? How will 'the powers that be' feel about it then?

Perhaps there's work going on in the background from a legal perspective to make sure he has no comeback. The last thing they want is another lawsuit!