Golf mind games

ohinthecomputer

Have an important 4somes matchplay match coming up and the guys we're due to play against seem to be awful arseholes.

They were due to contact us and failed to do so despite us having our number up. Checked the clubhouse and we saw that they had just written their number up on the board right underneath ours as opposed to just calling us.

That was childish and immature to say the least so we went about contacting them. Made a few phone calls, sent a few texts and got no reply. Then we went to the clubhouse and wrote over our number with a sharpie just in case they had problems reading it. Tried the number a few times returned to the club house a few days later to see they had written over their number with biro and highlighted it. We eventually got in contact with them and they pawned us off saying theyd get back to us in September. Its a final and theres no date limit on it. They seem determined to screw with us.

We're trying to fob it off and make it seem we dont care and not let them get under our skin. We plan to be as nice as possible and make it appear we couldnt give a fiddlers.

I was wondering if anyone has any good mind games or comments we can pass on the day that would mess with their psyche on the day while not being blatantly obvious....?

kenco

My 2 cents would be to forget about the mind games as they will only distract you from your golf game and this is the only way you can beat them.

On the contact stuff I have had this several times down the years and have had guys finally contact me or put their number up just before the close date. Last year I had enough and put my name through to the next round only to be called by the organiser and asked why. I explained my position and that I had acted in good faith and why should I be penalised for someone elses failing. He said I had to play and would contact the other party for me who then shock horror withdrew due to injury!! See who is organising the comp and advise them on what is going on so that it can be better managed moving forward

slingerz

Something similar happened to me and my buddy in our club 4somes. I'm 23 and a 21 handicap and my buddy is 17 and a 12 handicap. We got drawn against this pair in the quarters. They were the wrong side of 50 but playing off 15 and 16. Its well known that they dislike young people playing in the same competitons as them. They were trying to be awkward about picking a time to play without realising that we were free all the time. Played them at 7AM on a tuesday morning. They couldnt get over us taking the piss and having a laugh while we were playing discussing everything from girls to football. Ended up beating them 6&5! Thing is dont let them get to ya!

ohinthecomputer

Yeah some of these auld fellas in Clubs are very arrogant and self aggrandising. They take the game way too seriously.

We're both 21 and have a laugh on the course and I put that down to us reaching this final... In our semi final it was the same **** with the people we were up against. They took forver to organise a game against it had to be played on the last day possible. It kind of messed us up a bit and we were three down stepping on to the twelfth tee box... We had been playing very seriously and not enjoying it I turned around to my playing partner and said **** this lets have a laugh! Won two up on 17!

The auld fellas didnt know what to make of us. We were three down and I was talking about the new Will Ferrell movie and some bird I was trying to pull the night before!

I would just like to **** them up a bit, mess with their minds...

Goodluck2me

On the first tee, tell them to make it quick as you have to be home in two hours.

One Cold Hand

I love matchplay for this reason, I love mind games. For some reason I seem to be kind of good at unsettling people! It's all part of the fun.

It kind of depends on the type of people they are. It they are really chatty and friendly all the time, just try and blank them. Literally don't talk to them. If they're keeping to themselves, and are being kind of cold and distant, just be ridiculously chatty and friendly to them. As in annoyingly friendly. Just talk about any old crap you can think of, the weather, Ryder cup, anything.

If they're really quick players, try to do things to make the game annoyingly slow for them, walk annoyingly slowly between shots, discuss your putts for ages. If they're quite slow players, try and hurry them up. Tell them you have to be in a certain time, tell them that you should be keeping closer to the group ahead of you.

If they're getting frustrated with they're game be REALLY complimentary. Tell them they hit a superb, or fantastic or really great shot, when really it was only average or poor. And if they do hit a really good shot, be completely over the top complimentary. Say something like 'Wow that shot was literally unbelievable. You've been hitting them like that all day.'

The whole point is to make them uncomfortable. Make them play slower or quicker than they normally would, make them talk more or less than they normally would, make them think more or less than they normally would. It's a bit sly and underhanded, but it's part of the game, and I really enjoy it! (probably says something about me a person, but hey!).

The one thing as someone said earlier, is it can distract you from your own game, if you concentrate on it too much. I've been doing it for a while now, and kind of know good times to slip in a comment or to do something to unsettle them a bit. My advise would be don't go out looking for chances, just be ready if the moment does arrises.

PhilipMarlowe

What about this for a neat trick..... take less shots than them. Do you think it will ever catch on?

stringy

Gamesmanship and lack of sportsmanship has no place in golf. Be the bigger person and play your own game, be polite and enjoy it

One Cold Hand wrote: »

I love matchplay for this reason, I love mind games. For some reason I seem to be kind of good at unsettling people! It's all part of the fun.

It kind of depends on the type of people they are. It they are really chatty and friendly all the time, just try and blank them. Literally don't talk to them. If they're keeping to themselves, and are being kind of cold and distant, just be ridiculously chatty and friendly to them. As in annoyingly friendly. Just talk about any old crap you can think of, the weather, Ryder cup, anything.

If they're really quick players, try to do things to make the game annoyingly slow for them, walk annoyingly slowly between shots, discuss your putts for ages. If they're quite slow players, try and hurry them up. Tell them you have to be in a certain time, tell them that you should be keeping closer to the group ahead of you.

If they're getting frustrated with they're game be REALLY complimentary. Tell them they hit a superb, or fantastic or really great shot, when really it was only average or poor. And if they do hit a really good shot, be completely over the top complimentary. Say something like 'Wow that shot was literally unbelievable. You've been hitting them like that all day.'

The whole point is to make them uncomfortable. Make them play slower or quicker than they normally would, make them talk more or less than they normally would, make them think more or less than they normally would. It's a bit sly and underhanded, but it's part of the game, and I really enjoy it! (probably says something about me a person, but hey!).

The one thing as someone said earlier, is it can distract you from your own game, if you concentrate on it too much. I've been doing it for a while now, and kind of know good times to slip in a comment or to do something to unsettle them a bit. My advise would be don't go out looking for chances, just be ready if the moment does arrises.

JCDUB

One Cold Hand wrote: »

I love matchplay for this reason, I love mind games. For some reason I seem to be kind of good at unsettling people! It's all part of the fun.

It kind of depends on the type of people they are. It they are really chatty and friendly all the time, just try and blank them. Literally don't talk to them. If they're keeping to themselves, and are being kind of cold and distant, just be ridiculously chatty and friendly to them. As in annoyingly friendly. Just talk about any old crap you can think of, the weather, Ryder cup, anything.

If they're really quick players, try to do things to make the game annoyingly slow for them, walk annoyingly slowly between shots, discuss your putts for ages. If they're quite slow players, try and hurry them up. Tell them you have to be in a certain time, tell them that you should be keeping closer to the group ahead of you.

If they're getting frustrated with they're game be REALLY complimentary. Tell them they hit a superb, or fantastic or really great shot, when really it was only average or poor. And if they do hit a really good shot, be completely over the top complimentary. Say something like 'Wow that shot was literally unbelievable. You've been hitting them like that all day.'

The whole point is to make them uncomfortable. Make them play slower or quicker than they normally would, make them talk more or less than they normally would, make them think more or less than they normally would. It's a bit sly and underhanded, but it's part of the game, and I really enjoy it! (probably says something about me a person, but hey!).

The one thing as someone said earlier, is it can distract you from your own game, if you concentrate on it too much. I've been doing it for a while now, and kind of know good times to slip in a comment or to do something to unsettle them a bit. My advise would be don't go out looking for chances, just be ready if the moment does arrises.

Jaysus man you sound like the perfect partner to a bloke I played with in a fourball the last year and a half.
Me and him got paired up in a qualifier for the fourball matchplay last year by accident in the car park, qualified and ended up winning it, went onto an inter club matchplay thing.
He's a weirdo, I still to this day do not know if he was bustling the opposition or is just a complete oddball, and we played 10-12 matches together!!A very strange character, used to stand in lines of sight when opposition were putting, but not directly so he couldn't be accused, talked utter shoite to them and tried to undermine their intelligence as he is some sort of professor, used to talk in connundrums and all, some of it was hilarious!!
I did feel uncomfortable on more than a few occasions though, as it's not my style to bustle or be bustled, I just let my golf do the talking, usually works for me..
Horses for courses I suppose..

ShriekingSheet

What Kenco said in Post #2 is what I'd mostly agree with. There are a few little things I do but to be honest, putting thought and energy into anything other than playing the best shots you can is a waste IMO.

I also very much disagree with making any kind of comments geard toward unsettling the other player in any way. Personally I just think it's petty and embarrassing.

Little things like, if you're knocking it a good distance by your opponent off the tee, walk to your ball quickly. So when he is preparing to hit his second, he knows you are watching from 30 yards down the fairway (obviously not in his way).

On a par 3, if you're a couple of clubs longer, hold your practice swing a little bit to give him a look at the number on the sole - if he's stupid enough to look - and you're up first - he may be embarrassed taking much more club, or be unsure if he has too much stick.

Take the flag out for your chips. Show that you're really trying to hole the shots rather that just get them close. It can be a little bit intimidating.

Just general prepardness can make your opponent take notice that he's up against someone who's out to win. Arrive in time to warm up, chip and putt. Of course, in matchplay, you can even play a hole or two prior to the match. Have your clubs clean, your ball marked, look the part etc.

The best thing you can do is accept that a lot of the time, this stuff will give you no advantage whatsoever. It could even hinder your own game or motivate your opponent more than usual. But if you relax and play your golf, catching your guy out with a little distraction just might give you an edge.

stooge

One Cold Hand wrote: »

I love matchplay for this reason, I love mind games. For some reason I seem to be kind of good at unsettling people! It's all part of the fun.

It kind of depends on the type of people they are. It they are really chatty and friendly all the time, just try and blank them. Literally don't talk to them. If they're keeping to themselves, and are being kind of cold and distant, just be ridiculously chatty and friendly to them. As in annoyingly friendly. Just talk about any old crap you can think of, the weather, Ryder cup, anything.

If they're really quick players, try to do things to make the game annoyingly slow for them, walk annoyingly slowly between shots, discuss your putts for ages. If they're quite slow players, try and hurry them up. Tell them you have to be in a certain time, tell them that you should be keeping closer to the group ahead of you.

If they're getting frustrated with they're game be REALLY complimentary. Tell them they hit a superb, or fantastic or really great shot, when really it was only average or poor. And if they do hit a really good shot, be completely over the top complimentary. Say something like 'Wow that shot was literally unbelievable. You've been hitting them like that all day.'

The whole point is to make them uncomfortable. Make them play slower or quicker than they normally would, make them talk more or less than they normally would, make them think more or less than they normally would. It's a bit sly and underhanded, but it's part of the game, and I really enjoy it! (probably says something about me a person, but hey!).

The one thing as someone said earlier, is it can distract you from your own game, if you concentrate on it too much. I've been doing it for a while now, and kind of know good times to slip in a comment or to do something to unsettle them a bit. My advise would be don't go out looking for chances, just be ready if the moment does arrises.

I thought Golf was a gentlemans game? i.e. code of conduct and good sportmanship etc? None of this seems very nice.

Get on with your game and like the other players get on with theirs. The best player should win without having to put others off.

If you need to do stuff like this just to win then maybe golf isn't the game for you.

One Cold Hand

I guess I sounded like a bit of an a$$hole in that post!

Just to clarify, the OP asked for some things he could do to fook with his opponent, and I gave him some ideas.

I've have done some of these things in past, not going to pretend I haven't!

My post sounded like I approach every match with the sole aim of unsettling my opponent from the second we step on the tee. This isn't the case at all. If I'm easily beating a guy I won't say/do anything. If I'm in a close match I MIGHT throw in 1 subtle comment at a time that I think might unsettle him slightly. I'd never do anything like stand in, or on, his putting line. I approach every match concentrating solely on my own game, but I'm also aware that an opportunity may arise to unsettle him slightly.

If it's an action it's something like Shrieking Sheet has suggested.
If it's a comment, it's always something subtle, something that he's likely to think himself anyway. I obviously don't say anything like 'Jaysus, you're sh1te, aren't you?' Golf is 99% mental, so if he can't cope with a subtle comment from an opponent then he's likely to loose anyway!

As JCDUB pointed people will do and say all types of things to gain an advantage...far more blatent and obvious things have been done to me in my time, that's why I don't mind doing the odd subtle thing myself.

One Cold Hand

stooge wrote: »

I thought Golf was a gentlemans game? i.e. code of conduct and good sportmanship etc? None of this seems very nice.

btw I only do this in Inter club matches. I dunno if you've played them or not, but they're generally fairly serious, you're not exactly walking around trying to make friends.

Swinging Looney

One Cold Hand wrote: »

btw I only do this in Inter club matches. I dunno if you've played them or not, but they're generally fairly serious, you're not exactly walking around trying to make friends.

By this logic, if you think inter club comps are serious enough to warrant this behaviour, a tour pro playing a playoff in a major should really be calling his opponent a p***k every couple of minutes, deliberately shank the ball in an attempt to hit him but still not allowing it to be obvious enough to be called for it, sneeze or cough during his backswing, etc, etc. It's really quite pathetic.

I must say I am pretty disappointed that some people think this way. All the same, I'm sure you probably a nice guy and your posts probably don't do you any justice at all.

During important matches, I have a couple of methods I use to intimidate my opponent.

1) I concentrate very hard to make sure that I have my yardages correct and I am allowing for wind, lie, etc, etc. Occasionally during friendly rounds I forget that yardages are to the front of the green and not the middle or they are in meters and not yards, etc, etc. I try to make sure I don't make this mistake. This way, if I hit the ball reasonably well, I will score as low as I possibly can. Nothing intimidates an opponent more than someone who appears capable of hitting any given shot close enough to score. They remain under pressure at all times.

2) I combine this with a determination to never give up on any hole. If I drive out of bounds and he is in the middle of the fairway, I believe I can still beat him on the hole. I can hit 3 to the fairway and still make bogey. If I've missed the green in two and he's 6 inches away for birdie, I concentrate just as much as I always do and make an effort to hole my next shot. He gets the message that he is never going to get a simple hole where I just concede and pick up my ball. He will have to win each and every one.

Twice I holed chips to half a hole that looked like it was undoubtedly theirs. They begin to feel that they need to hit every single approach shot as close as possible and can begin to get too aggressive and make mistakes.

3) If he has any putt that matters at all, I will never concede it. If I have a shot on a particular hole and he doesn't, I feel that I should win it. If he looks like he will win it instead, he will have to physically put the ball in the hole. The number of times I have seen guys miss from 2 feet in these circumstances is incredible. The entire match suddenly swings in your favour.

This in my mind is OK because I am using golf to out psyche my opponent. Using words, noises, actions or distractions is completely unacceptable. Let the golf say all you want it to, otherwise, keep yourself civil and friendly.

Par72

I'm not a fan of mind games at all either. One tactic I would employ is to give my opponents all their short putts for the first 9 holes or so. Then when there is a crucial point in the match and they have a shortish putt I would make them putt it - the logic being that they haven't any practice holing those length putts in the match yet.

ShriekingSheet

@ Swinging Looney & Stooge

That's pretty harsh on One Cold Hand. Matchplay as you describe it just it isn't like that.

Stooge, your point that it's a gentleman's game played by those who adhere to a code of conduct is in the same ball-park as saying that these gentlemen run succesful businesses while adhering to a strict code of conduct and decencey.
My point being that succesful golfers/businessmen have (or even need) a ruthless-b*stard-streak in them. Of course they don't show this side much, if at all, but it's naive to think it's beyond gentlemen to use every resource at their disposal to get an edge.

And no, calling someone a pr*ck or coughing loudly at the top of a back-swing is not what myself and OCH are talking about.

And yes, top professionals also do it - it's just not something that's spoken about, nor do TV stations focus on it (I assume to protect the image of the game).

In Goosen and Woods' 36 hole match earlier in the year, Goosen said two words to Tiger in the hole round - "Titleist - One" - on the first tee. His caddie gave the gimmes or Goosen just knocked back the ball. Any talk from Woods was met with silence.

Tom Kite wouldn't let Olazabal hole out a 3 foot putt in the Ryder Cup because Seve was in a bunker and further away - Jose-Maria would have technically been playing out of turn. They argued briefly, the Europeans said "fine", JMO marked his ball and Seve canned the bunker shot to win the hole.

There's plenty of ways of approaching a match that aren't rude, obvious or aggressive that can give you an edge. Whether it's making a guy hole a 3 footer after giving him the last two putts that length, making him putt first even if you're off the green but nearer the hole than he is, there's a long list and some decent ideas here (some crap!).

But the truth is, there are ways within the rules and just within the boundaries of ettiquette that can give you an edge, and this does go on in matchplay all the time, in gentlemanly clubs, at high and low standards.

If anyone ever over-stepped the mark with me I wouldn't hesitate to report them. There's a line which you get to know after gaining some experience in matchplay and I ensure I don't cross it myself. That said, if I told you I act the same with a guy I play with in the Medal as I do with a matchplay opponent I'd be lying, and wouldn't have won as many matches.

stooge

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

@ Swinging Looney & Stooge

That's pretty harsh on One Cold Hand. Matchplay as you describe it just it isn't like that.

Stooge, your point that it's a gentleman's game played by those who adhere to a code of conduct is in the same ball-park as saying that these gentlemen run succesful businesses while adhering to a strict code of conduct and decencey.
My point being that succesful golfers/businessmen have (or even need) a ruthless-b*stard-streak in them. Of course they don't show this side much, if at all, but it's naive to think it's beyond gentlemen to use every resource at their disposal to get an edge.

And no, calling someone a pr*ck or coughing loudly at the top of a back-swing is not what myself and OCH are talking about.

And yes, top professionals also do it - it's just not something that's spoken about, nor do TV stations focus on it (I assume to protect the image of the game).

In Goosen and Woods' 36 hole match earlier in the year, Goosen said two words to Tiger in the hole round - "Titleist - One" - on the first tee. His caddie gave the gimmes or Goosen just knocked back the ball. Any talk from Woods was met with silence.

Tom Kite wouldn't let Olazabal hole out a 3 foot putt in the Ryder Cup because Seve was in a bunker and further away - Jose-Maria would have technically been playing out of turn. They argued briefly, the Europeans said "fine", JMO marked his ball and Seve canned the bunker shot to win the hole.

There's plenty of ways of approaching a match that aren't rude, obvious or aggressive that can give you an edge. Whether it's making a guy hole a 3 footer after giving him the last two putts that length, making him putt first even if you're off the green but nearer the hole than he is, there's a long list and some decent ideas here (some crap!).

But the truth is, there are ways within the rules and just within the boundaries of ettiquette that can give you an edge, and this does go on in matchplay all the time, in gentlemanly clubs, at high and low standards.

If anyone ever over-stepped the mark with me I wouldn't hesitate to report them. There's a line which you get to know after gaining some experience in matchplay and I ensure I don't cross it myself. That said, if I told you I act the same with a guy I play with in the Medal as I do with a matchplay opponent I'd be lying, and wouldn't have won as many matches.

Yeah, I can understand where youre coming from on this and that there are certain subtle things you can do to unsettle others on the course. I'm just of the opinion the result should be down to who plays the best golf and not who's the best at putting the other off his/her game.

You're competitive streak and ruthlessness should be based on the quality of your golf and not mind games. Then again maybe I'm just too nice

Swinging Looney

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

@ Swinging Looney & Stooge

That's pretty harsh on One Cold Hand. Matchplay as you describe it just it isn't like that.

Stooge, your point that it's a gentleman's game played by those who adhere to a code of conduct is in the same ball-park as saying that these gentlemen run succesful businesses while adhering to a strict code of conduct and decencey.
My point being that succesful golfers/businessmen have (or even need) a ruthless-b*stard-streak in them. Of course they don't show this side much, if at all, but it's naive to think it's beyond gentlemen to use every resource at their disposal to get an edge.

And no, calling someone a pr*ck or coughing loudly at the top of a back-swing is not what myself and OCH are talking about.

And yes, top professionals also do it - it's just not something that's spoken about, nor do TV stations focus on it (I assume to protect the image of the game).

In Goosen and Woods' 36 hole match earlier in the year, Goosen said two words to Tiger in the hole round - "Titleist - One" - on the first tee. His caddie gave the gimmes or Goosen just knocked back the ball. Any talk from Woods was met with silence.

Tom Kite wouldn't let Olazabal hole out a 3 foot putt in the Ryder Cup because Seve was in a bunker and further away - Jose-Maria would have technically been playing out of turn. They argued briefly, the Europeans said "fine", JMO marked his ball and Seve canned the bunker shot to win the hole.

There's plenty of ways of approaching a match that aren't rude, obvious or aggressive that can give you an edge. Whether it's making a guy hole a 3 footer after giving him the last two putts that length, making him putt first even if you're off the green but nearer the hole than he is, there's a long list and some decent ideas here (some crap!).

But the truth is, there are ways within the rules and just within the boundaries of ettiquette that can give you an edge, and this does go on in matchplay all the time, in gentlemanly clubs, at high and low standards.

If anyone ever over-stepped the mark with me I wouldn't hesitate to report them. There's a line which you get to know after gaining some experience in matchplay and I ensure I don't cross it myself. That said, if I told you I act the same with a guy I play with in the Medal as I do with a matchplay opponent I'd be lying, and wouldn't have won as many matches.

I do understand where you are coming from with your post, but what I mean is that Goosen would have behaved that way no matter who he was playing with. Tom Kite would have requested the same thing if he was playing alongside any other pair. That's golf and that entirely normal and acceptable.

What is not acceptable is playing on the personalities of those who you play with IMHO. If Goosen wasn't playing Woods and instead was playing someone who hated chat, he would not have been any different. He would not have suddenly opened up and generated chat at every opportunity just to put the guy off. So from that point of view you cannot compare One Cold Hands behaviour to that of Goosen or Kite.

If I was playing a match with someone who tried to rush me when I was not playing too slowly, took stupidly long amounts of time over putts in an apparent effort to put me off, or other silly techniques, I'd be off to the committee to have them thrown out. It's ridiculous! Just outplay me. Use your golf and the rules of the game to get into my head. Attacking personalities and drastically changing your technique depending on the personality you are playing is just not on.

Of course, that's just the way I see it!!!

One Cold Hand

Swinging Looney wrote: »

So from that point of view you cannot compare One Cold Hands behaviour to that of Goosen or Kite.

Just to clarify, my first post was simply a list of (admitedly extreme) things that the OP could do. As I clarified in my second post I never do anything too extreme, always something subtle. Goosen not talking to an opponent, at all, for an entire round is FAR more extreme than anything I've ever done.
Anyway, I hate Goosen. I'm quite happy not to be compared to him!

Swinging Looney wrote: »

If I was playing a match with someone who tried to rush me when I was not playing too slowly, took stupidly long amounts of time over putts in an apparent effort to put me off, or other silly techniques, I'd be off to the committee to have them thrown out. It's ridiculous! Just outplay me. Use your golf and the rules of the game to get into my head. Attacking personalities and drastically changing your technique depending on the personality you are playing is just not on.

I don't drastically change my technique at all, if that's what you're suggesting! I'm probably the most chilled and relaxed golfer in the world! I'm quite happy playing at 100mph, or playing the slowest game ever. I've purposely taught myself to be like that so that I don't get annoyed by little things that shouldn't annoy me, whether it's in an matchplay match, or a medal, whatever.

Come on Swining Looney, are you honestly telling me that you've never done anything, even something small and quite subtle, to unsettle an opponent? Not even the most common trick in the book: give your opponent all his 2/3/4 foot putt for the first 10 or 11 holes. Then when it comes to an important hole make him hole out? Come on, I know you have;):D. You talked about not playing on personalities, if you know the guy is a bit shakey over the short putts, surely your going to try something like this??

It happen all the time in golf, amateur and professional.

One Cold Hand

stooge wrote: »

Yeah, I can understand where youre coming from on this and that there are certain subtle things you can do to unsettle others on the course. I'm just of the opinion the result should be down to who plays the best golf and not who's the best at putting the other off his/her game.

You're competitive streak and ruthlessness should be based on the quality of your golf and not mind games. Then again maybe I'm just too nice

I kind of agree, but even if all mind games when excluded, it still wouldn't be based on the quality of you golf. As we all know golf is about 95% mental, so even without mind games, mental questions are still going to be asked.

Look at soccer. Again, should be based on footballing ability, but you still see players crowding around referee trying to influence his decision. And players diving. I know it's not the 'Gentlemans Game,' but still, similar situation

One Cold Hand

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

Tom Kite wouldn't let Olazabal hole out a 3 foot putt in the Ryder Cup because Seve was in a bunker and further away - Jose-Maria would have technically been playing out of turn. They argued briefly, the Europeans said "fine", JMO marked his ball and Seve canned the bunker shot to win the hole.

This is completely off the point, so apologies. My understanding of Fourball matchplay was that Olazabal had the right to go first if he wanted to, as Seve (ie. his partner) was furthest away?
My understanding was that which ever team is furthest away can go first, whether it the player that's furthest away who plays next or not is irrelevant. Maybe I'm mistaken!

One Cold Hand

Swinging Looney wrote: »

By
3) If he has any putt that matters at all, I will never concede it. If I have a shot on a particular hole and he doesn't, I feel that I should win it. If he looks like he will win it instead, he will have to physically put the ball in the hole. The number of times I have seen guys miss from 2 feet in these circumstances is incredible. The entire match suddenly swings in your favour.

See to my mind this is counter productive. I realise your trying to show him your 'determination,' but if you constantly ask him to hole out from 6 inches, by the time a putt on an important hole comes around he's practiced holing out a tonne of times. It'll be no bother to him.

Do you seriously ask, for example, a 3 handicapper to hole out from 6 inches every time? A guy tried this with me (not that I'm off 3 or anything!) in a match once. It was a bit annoying at the start, but it served nothing more than to waste time.

ShriekingSheet

stooge wrote: »

Yeah, I can understand where youre coming from on this and that there are certain subtle things you can do to unsettle others on the course. I'm just of the opinion the result should be down to who plays the best golf and not who's the best at putting the other off his/her game.

I have to say, I'm not disagreeing with you that the winner should be he who plays the best golf.

I suppose I'm just putting the point forward that there is an extra element of one-on-one matchplay (exclusively) that is part of the game - part of golf - and to be a good matchplayer you need to be able to deal with it and use it to your advantage, within the rules and ettiquette of the game.

Of course, this is only the case in matches the players take seriously - in the same way you don't hop-off someone in a 5-a-side as you might in a Leinster Senior League match.

ShriekingSheet

Swinging Looney wrote: »

I do understand where you are coming from with your post, but what I mean is that Goosen would have behaved that way no matter who he was playing with. Tom Kite would have requested the same thing if he was playing alongside any other pair. That's golf and that entirely normal and acceptable.

What is not acceptable is playing on the personalities of those who you play with IMHO. If Goosen wasn't playing Woods and instead was playing someone who hated chat, he would not have been any different. He would not have suddenly opened up and generated chat at every opportunity just to put the guy off. So from that point of view you cannot compare One Cold Hands behaviour to that of Goosen or Kite.

The fact that Goosen would have done it to any opponent doesn't make it not gamesmanship. He made a an effort to be rude in an attempt to shake Tiger and as we all know, later this year, he went so far as to say TW made a mountain out of a molehill regarding his injury at the US Open in an obvious and childish attempt to taint his victory.

And no, the reason there was so much uproar over the Kite/Seve thing is because this is just never, ever done - it's a technicality and guys who want to finish are always allowed to finish.

YET ANOTHER example of gamesmanship and ruthlessness at the top level is Anika Sorenstam @ the Solheim Cup chipping in from the fringe of the green - only for her opponent to take a look at where the ball was and say "it was actually me away - take your ball back" because technically she had played out of turn.

Swinging Looney wrote: »

If I was playing a match with someone who tried to rush me when I was not playing too slowly, took stupidly long amounts of time over putts in an apparent effort to put me off, or other silly techniques, I'd be off to the committee to have them thrown out. It's ridiculous! Just outplay me. Use your golf and the rules of the game to get into my head. Attacking personalities and drastically changing your technique depending on the personality you are playing is just not on.

Of course, that's just the way I see it!!!

See that's the whole point- how is it going to be apparent that taking a long time over putts in a match of some importance is an attempt to get at you?

What if you're just a quick player and he's an afternoon golfer, used to slower play? Should he accomodate you?
What if he misses a putt and you stride onto the next tee, full of momentum, ready to hit. Should he hurry up so you can keep your positive rhythm going? What if he took a drink of water before walking to the tee, wiped the face of his putter and ambled over to the tee telling himself he'd get the next putt?

There's two outcomes of what you're saying above. 1. No comittee is going to throw someone out of the club over taking time over shots in a match. They certainly will not overturn the result of the match and only if complaints were made by a few people would a word be had with the player.

2. Back in real-time in the match, even from reading your post above, you can see that you've been tightly wound up by the idea that the guy isn't just seeing who wins at golf. As any golfer knows, this kind of annoyance will result in your own game deteriorating and you losing the match.

Swinging Looney

One Cold Hand wrote: »

I don't drastically change my technique at all, if that's what you're suggesting! I'm probably the most chilled and relaxed golfer in the world! I'm quite happy playing at 100mph, or playing the slowest game ever. I've purposely taught myself to be like that so that I don't get annoyed by little things that shouldn't annoy me, whether it's in an matchplay match, or a medal, whatever.

Come on Swining Looney, are you honestly telling me that you've never done anything, even something small and quite subtle, to unsettle an opponent? Not even the most common trick in the book: give your opponent all his 2/3/4 foot putt for the first 10 or 11 holes. Then when it comes to an important hole make him hole out? Come on, I know you have;):D. You talked about not playing on personalities, if you know the guy is a bit shakey over the short putts, surely your going to try something like this??

It happen all the time in golf, amateur and professional.

Ah fair enough so OCH, I see that you didn't actually say that you did these things yourself, so I'm sorry for implying you did.

As for the stuff I do in matches, of course I have spotted someone who is shaky at short putts and have asked them to hole out at a critical stage. But that is using golf as the weapon. He is crap at short putts, so only he can let himself down if I say "hole out please". But I don't ever try to create an environment that will give him difficulty because his personality won't handle it well. I don't ever blather away to a quiet bloke or clam up with Mr Chatty in an attempt to put them off, because that's not golf. That's just being a arse. I may unstick his golf game as a result but I didn't use golf as the weapon.

My point basically is, if we were all square on the 17th tee and I play a 3 iron second shot on a par 5 to 3 feet, there's a good chance he might go to jelly and end up throwing the match as a result. If I asked him, with a look of mischief in my eye, how long his willy normally is first thing in the morning, there's a good chance I'll get the same result. One method is acceptable, the other is not. The end DOES NOT necessarily justify the means.

All the above is IMHO only.

Swinging Looney

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

The fact that Goosen would have done it to any opponent doesn't make it not gamesmanship. He made a an effort to be rude in an attempt to shake Tiger and as we all know

But he would have been like that with anyone as you have agreed. SO therefore, he did not target his opponents specific personality. If he did, I guarantee there would have been complete uproar. Goosen behaves that way, because it allows him to stay focused on the job at hand. He does not want to become pally with his opponent to ensure that he doesn't change his approach to the match if the heat is on. Every single golfer on the planet should be doing that if they want results. They should try to create the best environment to allow themselves to win by playing their best golf. What they should not do is create an environment where they will win by making their opponent play their worst golf. There is a huge difference between the two.

Shrieking Sheet wrote:

And no, the reason there was so much uproar over the Kite/Seve thing is because this is just never, ever done - it's a technicality and guys who want to finish are always allowed to finish.

But it is still using golf because the Rules of Golf allow for it!!! For example the rules say that you must tee off from between the tee markers. In strokeplay, if you don't, and you don't correct your mistake before the next hole, it's bye bye - You're disqualified. In Matchplay however, your opponent may ask you to replay your shot from within the tee markers. Otherwise there is no penalty if you carry on regardless. So, if I see my opponent teeing up front in front of the markers, I say nothing at first. If he slices the ball out of bounds, I still say nothing. But if he nails his drive and splits the fairway, I say "Sorry old chap, you played that shot from outside the teeing area, so would you be so kind as to have another go please." Sounds harsh and mean but that is me using my knowledge of the rules of golf to my advantage. Nothing wrong with that.

The Sorenstam thing is EXACTLY the same as that example. Under the rules of golf she was entirely entitled to ask Sorenstam to retake the shot and there was obviously going to be a great chance that she wouldn't hole it second time around (which she didn't) so there's an obvious advantage to request the rules be followed exactly.

My whole point is that acting outside or beyond the guidance of the rules in order to upset your opponent is just not on and in that context this almost never happens in professional golf.

See that's the whole point- how is it going to be apparent that taking a long time over putts in a match of some importance is an attempt to get at you?

What if you're just a quick player and he's an afternoon golfer, used to slower play? Should he accomodate you?
What if he misses a putt and you stride onto the next tee, full of momentum, ready to hit. Should he hurry up so you can keep your positive rhythm going? What if he took a drink of water before walking to the tee, wiped the face of his putter and ambled over to the tee telling himself he'd get the next putt?

Fair enough, perhaps the delaying your putt thing is a bad example, only because it is bloody hard to prove. How about this then:

1) Bloke natters away incessantly when it is my turn to play. I begin to think he is trying to put me off. So I politely say "Sorry Old Chap, I really don't mean to be rude, but when I play golf I really am not much of a chatterbox, in fact, I normally prefer to talk very little, so I hope you won't mind staying quiet when it's my turn to play". If he carries on regardless, it's off to the committee and rant, rant, rant. If he gets away with it, he may even win the match, think he's great and hold up the the trophy at the end of it all. He's still a w****r. And he won't get away with it for long if he tries it on with everyone else. My point is that it is not acceptable and I wish people would report any cases of this kind of thing so that his name is familiar to the powers at be and it will eventually be stamped out. The same way that someone who just plains cheats will get away with it unless people start to take him to task.

2) Bloke arrives for a match and says he is in a hurry and needs to done in 2 hours because he has to pick up the kids. I politely say "Sorry old Chap, but I'm afraid I'm not willing to play any quicker than I normally do, and if you are unable to finish the match in a reasonable time it will be forfeited to me." That should sort him out I would think. If he plays anyway and still tries his best to rush things along, it's off to the committee and rant, rant, rant, blah, blah, blah. (Insert preceding paragraph here)

3) Various other examples of a similar nature but my fingers are sore from typing too much........


To sum up: If you play and make requests within the rules, behave in such a way so as to maximise your chances of winning then nobody can have any beef with you. If you play and make requests outside the rules or behave in such a way so as to maximise your opponents chances of losing then you are a plonker and I would be delighted to see you removed from the game. You would fall into the same category as those who try to manipulate their handicap prior to big events and competitions, people who knowingly break the rules and cheat and people who drive over their opponent in the car park so they are forced to forfeit the match.

Of course this is nothing more than my opinion. You and others may well think differently but such is life.....

ShriekingSheet

Swinging Looney wrote: »

if I say "hole out please"

Hahaha, that's ABSOLUTE MINDGAMES!!!

Surely you wouldn't actually say that to a guy?

silence = not given

That's how gentlemen do it anyway

ShriekingSheet

@Looney

You're coming around to our kind of thinking now I think. As I said myself, some of OCH's suggestions were crap IMO, and it's the worse ones you're picking out to back up your POV.

I'm saying we're all on the same lines now given that I've been arguing that there are ways within the rules and ettiquette which good matchplayers use to gain an edge. You've echoed this in your last post which is a little bit of departure from your original point that it should be only about golf in it's purest form and no one should try and gain an edge other than to hit a better shots.

In fairness, asking an ordinarily chatty guy to keep shtum or not telling someone they've tee'd it up outside the teeing ground could be viewed as farily crafty little ploys

Not very gentlemanly Looney - down with that sort of thing old chap

Swinging Looney

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

Hahaha, that's ABSOLUTE MINDGAMES!!!

Surely you wouldn't actually say that to a guy?

silence = not given

That's how gentlemen do it anyway

Ha ha! I were only making me point ya silly donkey! :rolleyes:

Swinging Looney

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

@Looney

You're coming around to our kind of thinking now I think. As I said myself, some of OCH's suggestions were crap IMO, and it's the worse ones you're picking out to back up your POV.

I'm saying we're all on the same lines now given that I've been arguing that there are ways within the rules and ettiquette which good matchplayers use to gain an edge. You've echoed this in your last post which is a little bit of departure from your original point that it should be only about golf in it's purest form and no one should try and gain an edge other than to hit a better shots.

In fairness, asking an ordinarily chatty guy to keep shtum or not telling someone they've tee'd it up outside the teeing ground could be viewed as farily crafty little ploys

Not very gentlemanly Looney - down with that sort of thing old chap

Fair enough, you're right. I am just trying to back up my own idea and probably getting a little off my own point on the way.

Of course I accept that there are ways within the rules of gaining an advantage without swinging a club yourself. The teeing ground thing is something I would use to give me a possible advantage because the chances are that most amateurs won't manage two magnificent shots in a row, so if the first one was wonderful I'll ask him to take it again so that I might be better off. But I won't ask him to take it again solely in an attempt to deliberately unverve the guy, although it probably will have that effect. Do you kind of see my point there??

Getting back to where all this ranting started, it's the idea of chatting to a normally quiet person, clamming up with a chatty bloke, rushing a slow player or slowing down a fast player, with the sole purpose of simply pissing him off or upsetting him that I don't like. Any other techniques that are simply designed to annoy an opponent fall in the same category.

I would only ever tell someone to keep quiet if I thought they were trying to deliberately put me off by chatting in the first place. Otherwise chat way all you like!

Right, jolly good show old boy, I think we have sorted all that out now. Spiffing show altogether me thinks.....

madds

Swinging Looney wrote: »

If I asked him, with a look of mischief in my eye, how long his willy normally is first thing in the morning...

I'd forfeit the match there and then and get the fook in off the course.

I'm not normally one for mind games as I prefer to make my golf do the talking, however I did experience one incident in a match last week which did have a bearing on the overall result. If I feel someone is trying it on with me, I'll have an "above board" go back.

Foursomes matchplay, and we were 1 down playing 17, a par 5. We were in for 5, and our opponents had a 25 foot putt from just off the back of the green. Opponent A elects to leave the flag in the hole and makes his stroke. As the ball approaches the hole, Opponent B takes the flag out. Immediately my partner and I look at each other both thinking the same thing, i.e. he can't do that. The hole is halved and as we walk to the next tee I tell my partner that we won't cause any upset by claiming the hole or anything but I didn't want to let it pass without making a comment.

So on the 18th tee I said - "Just checking for future reference lads, and I'm not looking to start a row here, but what is the actual ruling regarding...." etc. Cue a look of disbelief on Opponent B's face as, being someone who has played off 5 for years and represented our club on many different teams, he realised what he had done. He then point blankly denied that he had pulled the flag out after the ball was struck....but he definitely did.

Anyhow, I had made my point, and it obviously played on his mind as we teed off coz he chunked one out right about 200 yds and I hit a good one down the LHS, enabling us to hit the green in 2 and get our par. We went on to win the hole and eventually won on the 20th.