Teaching Council Vent

hot chick

Sorry to be a whinge. Just finished a PGCE in Art in UK and am applying to TC for recognition. Trying to get them all the info they "need" but seems to me most of it is unnecessary. My final exam transcript says what subjects I've covered and they should know at this stage the amount of time students in the UK spend on placement (answer: a bloody lot, the teaching year is longer!). It's a whinge but I know this is only the beginning, will collapse with shock if they ok it anytime soon. Anyone applied for this before from an UK Art PGCE?

ytareh

My sympathies ...they are ...well if I said what I think the TC are the mods would delete the post .The only reason I can see that these crowd are being allowed get away with half of their carry on is because the Unions have reps with nice cushy jobs on the so called Council.The 1000 euro (per subject) for 'subject recognition' really takes the biscuit though .Immoral earnings -simple as that .

Trotter

I'm keeping a very close eye on this thread ladies and gentlemen. Please don't cause the poor non paid mods any distress.

wingnut

I really don't see how the teaching council can justify the fees they charge. Espically in regards to the PGCE. Many students are paying to have the SAME qualifications recognized every year (i.e. 10 irish people do Art in the same Uni they all have to pay, next year 10 doing the same course all pay again).

I was lucky that my degrees were autoquals I only needed to get the PGCE recognized. The General Teaching Council of Wales were always a pleasure to deal with, and a fraction of the cost to register with.

Another thing is even as a qualified teacher you can only 'provisionally register' until you teach for a year! You are either qualified or your are not, this restriction is pointless especially in the current climate where stable work is not always readily available.

I think the problem with the Teaching Council is they are making it up as they go along - nothing to do with registration seems very planned or efficient. Very insular and amateurish really - they would have done well to learn from UK TCs. I doubt any other countries in the EU have such a convoluted registration process.

MathsManiac

wingnut wrote: »

Another thing is even as a qualified teacher you can only 'provisionally register' until you teach for a year! You are either qualified or your are not, this restriction is pointless especially in the current climate where stable work is not always readily available.

This part of the process seems very sensible to me. The probationary period is an important aspect of registration. Despite getting through teacher training, it is often only having done a full year in a real teaching environment that a judgment can be made as to whether the person really is cut out for it. At primary level, the Department's inspectors do this. At post-primary, it is the school's responsibility. After the probationary period, the principal has to sign off that you gave satisfactory service. This is a serious duty, as the future of many children is in their hands when making that judgment.

Surely it's not unreasonable for the Teaching Council to expect verification that you're capable of teaching in order to be registered. Do you think they should dispense with the Garda check too? (After all, even if they discover that you're a convicted paedophile, you'd still be a qualified teacher, so if having a recognised qualification was the only thing that mattered...)

funktastic

I don't find the issue of a school having to sign off for you after a years service the problem. It is so difficult to find work at the moment that it is hard to find 18 hours over the course of an entire year to be given full registration.

For example, I graduated in 2007 from the HDip in history and Geography. I couldn't find work in secondary in my subjects so I worked as a Resource Teacher in a primary school for the year. Even though this was over 18 hours it doesn't cover me for full registration. Same story this year. I couldn't get a job in History or Geography - ended up taking a job as a Resource Teacher in secondary. This is only for 16 hours and the form B states that it must be 'approved curricular subjects'. so what do I do? Keep looking for jobs until my 5 years are up and then they swipe my HDip from me? Seems a little unfair to say the least. A better system could be introduced to help people who genuinely want the full hours to get employed after graduation. I have read elsewhere that this is the case in Scotland.

wingnut

MathsManiac wrote: »

This part of the process seems very sensible to me. The probationary period is an important aspect of registration.

Thats ok for other professions but as mentioned previously lots of teachers are on <18 hours, allowances should be made.

sunflower!

silly i know but ive only just discovered this 18 hour within the first two years thing in the last few days and am in shock:eek:

what are you supposed to do if you cant get hours??? im currently subbing and although i applied for everything under the sun i dont see myself getting anything more solid this year and possible not next year either so where does that leave me???

as regards the whold idea of probation until you prove your ability i have no problem with that BUT how to you prove your ability if you are not given the chance!!!!!:(

MathsManiac

sunflower! wrote: »

silly i know but ive only just discovered this 18 hour within the first two years thing in the last few days and am in shock:eek:

It doesn't have to be in the first two years - you have to accumulate, over the course of any two school years, one school-year's worth of 18-hour weeks. (That is, six weeks each year for the next 10 years is no good, but, for example, 20 weeks this year, none next year, and 20 weeks the year after would do.)

MathsManiac

funktastic wrote: »

I don't find the issue of a school having to sign off for you after a years service the problem. It is so difficult to find work at the moment that it is hard to find 18 hours over the course of an entire year to be given full registration.

For example, I graduated in 2007 from the HDip in history and Geography. I couldn't find work in secondary in my subjects so I worked as a Resource Teacher in a primary school for the year. Even though this was over 18 hours it doesn't cover me for full registration. Same story this year. I couldn't get a job in History or Geography - ended up taking a job as a Resource Teacher in secondary. This is only for 16 hours and the form B states that it must be 'approved curricular subjects'. so what do I do? Keep looking for jobs until my 5 years are up and then they swipe my HDip from me? Seems a little unfair to say the least. A better system could be introduced to help people who genuinely want the full hours to get employed after graduation. I have read elsewhere that this is the case in Scotland.

What five years are you talking about? And who do you think has the authority (or the inclination) to come along and swipe your HDip from you?

ytareh

Maths Maniac do you have a clue what you are posting about or are you just here to pi55 off teachers!?You cant possibly be a practicing teacher....#1 The whole point of this thread is about who ...?The Teaching Council ...who it has been reported are going to implement this archaic and never applied law/rule ....#2 The fact you wish to add to the very considerable stress of starting teachers by putting them in a position that their 'first principal' has to 'officially ' sign off on them as teachers is unbelievably insensitive to the delicate position they are already in .They are held to ransom as it is being expected to adopt a massively disproportionate amount of extracurricular work in return for another year's work and /or good reference.I doubt any half sound principal would want this onerous task either.Would you like to tell a young guy or girl that they have wasted the last half decade of their life ?
Future of the children???!!!(For God's sake wont somebody think of the children?!)Dont make me laugh, there are enough people making teachers' lives hell ostensibly 'thinking of the children '...There are very few people supporting (starting) teachers...You would expect a place like this might provide some kind of collegial support.
The colleges provide enough 'screening' for want of a better word to divert those that are blatantly unsuitable to the career .If a starting teacher is under a bit of pressure with indiscipline issues etc its the support of the principal and staff they need ...Studies by respected experts have stated that the first few years (up to 5 perhaps) in teaching are about Surviving...there have always been more than enough people dropping out voluntarily due to lack of support etc ...

Trotter

ytareh wrote: »

Maths Maniac do you have a clue what you are posting about or are you just here to pi55 off teachers!?

I don't care how much you disagree.. keep the language civil in here.

freire

ytareh wrote: »

Maths Maniac do you have a clue what you are posting about or are you just here to pi55 off teachers!?You cant possibly be a practicing teacher....#1 The whole point of this thread is about who ...?The Teaching Council ...who it has been reported are going to implement this archaic and never applied law/rule ....#2 The fact you wish to add to the very considerable stress of starting teachers by putting them in a position that their 'first principal' has to 'officially ' sign off on them as teachers is unbelievably insensitive to the delicate position they are already in .They are held to ransom as it is being expected to adopt a massively disproportionate amount of extracurricular work in return for another year's work and /or good reference.I doubt any half sound principal would want this onerous task either.Would you like to tell a young guy or girl that they have wasted the last half decade of their life ?
Future of the children???!!!(For God's sake wont somebody think of the children?!)Dont make me laugh, there are enough people making teachers' lives hell ostensibly 'thinking of the children '...There are very few people supporting (starting) teachers...You would expect a place like this might provide some kind of collegial support.
The colleges provide enough 'screening' for want of a better word to divert those that are blatantly unsuitable to the career .If a starting teacher is under a bit of pressure with indiscipline issues etc its the support of the principal and staff they need ...Studies by respected experts have stated that the first few years (up to 5 perhaps) in teaching are about Surviving...there have always been more than enough people dropping out voluntarily due to lack of support etc ...

:D:D Here Here !!!!;)

Rosita

MathsManiac wrote: »

This part of the process seems very sensible to me. The probationary period is an important aspect of registration. Despite getting through teacher training, it is often only having done a full year in a real teaching environment that a judgment can be made as to whether the person really is cut out for it. At primary level, the Department's inspectors do this. At post-primary, it is the school's responsibility. After the probationary period, the principal has to sign off that you gave satisfactory service. This is a serious duty, as the future of many children is in their hands when making that judgment.

Surely it's not unreasonable for the Teaching Council to expect verification that you're capable of teaching in order to be registered. Do you think they should dispense with the Garda check too? (After all, even if they discover that you're a convicted paedophile, you'd still be a qualified teacher, so if having a recognised qualification was the only thing that mattered...)

A probationary period is standard in any line of work, but one's registration as a trained practitioner is not usually dependent on this - merely one's employment with that particular employer.

Drawing an equivalence between a probationary period and the Garda vetting process is absurd. One is about the ability to do a job to a satisfactory level, the other is whether you are a danger to or suitable to be in charge of children as a result of past misdemeanours. Quite a difference in gravity to put it mildly.

If, as you maintain, "the probationary period is an important aspect of registration" and "the principal signing off that you gave satisfactory service is performing a serious duty", do you have any figures which would say what percentage of people do not make the cut at this stage, (this might give us an idea as to how serious this actually is taken because logically there should be a certain failure rate) and what precisely happens their registration process after that?

funktastic

I wrote to the Teaching Council with this question:

I'm wondering if the teaching council are enforcing a rule wherby you must teach 18 hours within 5 years of taking the HDip. As I graduated in 2007 and have found it impossible to find any hours in history and Geography. I have been working in Resource and would not wish to be stripped of my Hdip after 5 years. I worked 19 hours last year as a resource teacher in primary school and this year have 16 hours in secondary. I would appreciate if you could clear this issue for me.

They responded:

The Teaching Council respects the qualifications that a teacher has attained regardless of when they are awarded.

So it seems that it is the case that It doesn't have to be in the first two years - you have to accumulate, over the course of any two school years, one school-year's worth of 18-hour weeks. (That is, six weeks each year for the next 10 years is no good, but, for example, 20 weeks this year, none next year, and 20 weeks the year after would do.) As one of the above posters stated.

MathsManiac

ytareh wrote: »

Maths Maniac do you have a clue what you are posting about or are you just here to pi55 off teachers!?You cant possibly be a practicing teacher...

I'm not now a practicing teacher, but I was for many years. And I certainly have no intention of irritating teachers, as I regard it as a most noble profession, which I was proud and priveleged to be a part of. I don't believe that all the friends I made when teaching, and with whom I am still friends, would regard me as disrespectful of them.

ytareh wrote: »

#1 The whole point of this thread is about who ...?The Teaching Council ...who it has been reported are going to implement this archaic and never applied law/rule

This rule has always been there. To the best of my knowledge, it has always been applied. (That is, I'm not aware that people were ever registered without having got this form signed by the principal.) The Teaching Council is, I believe, continuing a procedure that was until now managed by the Teacher Registration Section of the DES.

ytareh wrote: »

#2 The fact you wish to add to the very considerable stress of starting teachers by putting them in a position that their 'first principal' has to 'officially ' sign off on them as teachers is unbelievably insensitive to the delicate position they are already in .They are held to ransom as it is being expected to adopt a massively disproportionate amount of extracurricular work in return for another year's work and /or good reference.

I am not the person who wishes to put them in any such position. The fact that there may be an occasional principal who would take advantage of the power imbalance in such an unscrupulous way is not, in my view, sufficient reason to state that the proceducre itself is bad.

ytareh wrote: »

I doubt any half sound principal would want this onerous task either.Would you like to tell a young guy or girl that they have wasted the last half decade of their life ?

I'm sure that, as with all jobs, there are aspects that one doesn't relish. Most principals that I have met are people of dedication and integrity. Whereas they are sensitive to the problems of young teachers, they would nonetheless, I believe, take the matter seriously. They would try to provide such supoort and help as is required to allow them to sign off that the service given was satisfactory. On the other hand, in the (highly unlilkely) event that they had a complete loo-la on their hands, I don't think would lightly unleash them on the educational world for 40 years.

ytareh wrote: »

Future of the children???!!!(For God's sake wont somebody think of the children?!)Dont make me laugh, there are enough people making teachers' lives hell ostensibly 'thinking of the children '...There are very few people supporting (starting) teachers...You would expect a place like this might provide some kind of collegial support.

Despite what many outsiders might think, the long-term good of the children always seemed to me to be the touchstone of the great majority of colleagues I encountered in the profession. I don't think it's inappropriate to refer to the good of the children in a conversation among professional teachers and those interested in the profession.

Yes, I would expect a place like this to provide collegial support and I think that by and large it does. Furthermore, I don't think that this supportive environment was undermined by my suggestion here that the probationary period is a reasonable condition of registration.

ytareh wrote: »

The colleges provide enough 'screening' for want of a better word to divert those that are blatantly unsuitable to the career .If a starting teacher is under a bit of pressure with indiscipline issues etc its the support of the principal and staff they need ...Studies by respected experts have stated that the first few years (up to 5 perhaps) in teaching are about Surviving...there have always been more than enough people dropping out voluntarily due to lack of support etc ...

The colleges may or may not provide enough screening - that is a matter of opinion. But in any case, given that the colleges are autonomous in such matters, I still believe that the state is entitled to include its own checks and balances.

Of course starting teachers have such problems as you describe, but good principals are well aware of all these issues. They don't expect teachers starting out to be perfect and wonderful. But after a year, a good principal can see a lot of the potential in a person (just as a good leader or manager in any profession can). If a conscientious principal, after this period, can see absolutely no way how this person can come up to the mark in the future, I would not like to see them sign off anyway, and nor would I like to see a situation where, because the person has their qualification, nothing further can be done.

Trying to find a solution to the problem at this point is preferable, in my view, to a decade or more of frustration for all, followed by a long and painful process in which the VEC and/or the DES first try to remediate and then remove a person who, to be honest, should have been diverted to a different career long before, and is in an even worse predicament now. (I have also seen this in my time, and it does no good for anyone in the profession for such situations to arise.)

Having said all of that, and getting back to the point: given how difficult it now is to get full hours when starting out, I do think it would be a good idea for the Council to look at whether there are other more flexible ways to meet the requirement, without compromising its purpose.

Kazbah

Ok guys I'm a little confused!! I'm an NQT registered with the Teaching Council. Last year was my first year out and I taught 13.66 contracted hours per week plus subbing. Do I have to teach 18 hours per week in my subjects for one whole school year to get rid of my conditional status? Seeing as I having nothing yet this year. Not even 1 class of subbing. So this is troubling me.
BTW I have a H1 degree and H1 Dip and excellent references - I think it's who ya know

TheDriver

MathsManiac wrote: »

Having said all of that, and getting back to the point: given how difficult it now is to get full hours when starting out, I do think it would be a good idea for the Council to look at whether there are other more flexible ways to meet the requirement, without compromising its purpose.

The only way, stop the universities taking in so many for the Dip, 70% should be cut down as entrants have the belief that work is there at the end and it so is not.

Kazbah

Have found the Form B here

http://www.teachingcouncil.ie/registration_information/default.asp?NCID=203

They will include subbing work.

cL0h

Trotter wrote: »

I'm keeping a very close eye on this thread ladies and gentlemen. Please don't cause the poor non paid mods any distress.

My God! A pre emptive strike. Big Brother how are you?
Let me guess. You're a teacher and also a member of the Teaching Council.

Trotter

cL0h wrote: »

My God! A pre emptive strike. Big Brother how are you?
Let me guess. You're a teacher and also a member of the Teaching Council.

Eh this is the Teaching and Lecturing forum. All teachers in Ireland have to be a member of the teaching council.


If you've nothing constructive to post, I suggest you spend your time elsewhere. Thanks.

Tom Dunne

cL0h wrote: »

My God! A pre emptive strike. Big Brother how are you?
Let me guess. You're a teacher and also a member of the Teaching Council.

I am not a teacher and I am not a member of the Teaching Council.

If you have a problem with the forum and the way it is moderated, this thread is not the place for it.

Consider this your first warning.

MathsManiac

Trotter wrote: »

Eh this is the Teaching and Lecturing forum. All teachers in Ireland have to be a member of the teaching council.

Eh, that would make for some rather crowded council meetings! The council actually has 37 members, 22 of whom are teachers.

Trotter

MathsManiac wrote: »

Eh, that would make for some rather crowded council meetings! The council actually has 37 members, 22 of whom are teachers.

Great. Thanks for that. Now if you'd like to contribute to the topic, work away. :rolleyes:

sitstill

When I registered with this crowd they said I'd get a tax credit for the subscription I had to pay "in due course"..does anyone know what the story is? Do we actually get a tax credit for it?

hot chick

seems appropriate to update this now.
Am still waiting for my TC provisional recognition, (Aug, Sept, Oct, Nov...)
although they did send me a lovely if short letter thanking me for giving them money. No mention or ever processing my application though.
It took 3 weeks for the English Teaching Council to register me at half the price.
Ah, I love this country :rolleyes:

Kazbah

sitstill wrote: »

When I registered with this crowd they said I'd get a tax credit for the subscription I had to pay "in due course"..does anyone know what the story is? Do we actually get a tax credit for it?

I never heard about this but I know you can get a tax credit for union dues.

spurious

Does anyone know if the Teaching Council have had anything at all to say on the budget cuts?

freire

Now that you mention it the TC have been very conspicuously absent from the whole furore as far as I can discern. We must all be in agreement that it is a very toothless beast indeed. Extremely effective at delaying hard working newly qualified teachers their proper rate of pay though. I'm still waiting for approval from that august body, living on half the salary I should be receiving.

forestfruits

teaching council boils my blood, had awful trouble with them trying to get registered!!

they basically said they had never heard of me and i ended up registering again. Also was not impressed with the very nearly threatening letter that ordered us to pay our 90euro fee- for what? I have yet to hear them say a word on the budget cuts despite them claiming to be there to represent us!

KateF

Hi,so when should I actually apply to the Teaching Council? I'm in the middle of my PGDE Primary in the UK, so I hope to start teaching in Sept. When do you apply to TC?

Nead21

I thought that registering with the TC would mean that when it came to the joy of trying to get paid in september by the DES, it would make it easier, and that the DES would be able to contact the TC and confirm my qualifications etc, in order to get the appropriate pay.

Clearly i was wrong.....i had to sent off copies of qualifications myself to the DES....again!!

So what exactly do the TC council do?? Im confused!!