Poxy Bench Press

oq4v3ht0u76kf2

Yeah, I said it. Right, here's the scèal - had a couple logs going at various times but never seemed to keep them long enough for any feedback so I just keep a written log now. I've dropped in weight from about 20st 5lbs in June to hovering around 18st now whilst improving my lifts all over the shop. Except the fùcking bench press. My arms / shoulders / chest just seem disproportionately weak and I want to fix it.

I've squatted 200kg for 1RM and my top set these last few weeks is usually around 160kg. I've DL'ed ~180kg and my top set is about 140kg. Yet I can't get one rep of 80kg on the bench. Similarly, bicep curls with an EZ-bar, can't get past 25kg. Triceps are ****e too. I'm not looking for definition, I just amn't even thinking about it yet because I'm still carrying between 1 and 2 stone more than I should. I am looking for strength gains firstly, and size gains on my arms a second.

I'm eating about 3000kcals a day, and my cardio keeps me at about 80%MHR for 4hrs30mins a week so I'm still ending up with negative kcals at the end of the week. There are enough smart regulars here that I gotta believe someone has a way for me to gain strength and size whilst still cutting all my flabbidy flab?

I've been trying to, well, "blast" my way through this wall for the last fortnight or so. I think I've been overtraining to be honest, but I'll throw it up anyway. I've done this workout 8 times in the past 14 days, I'm not suffering too much from it but I know it's not sensible to keep it up.

Bench Press
8x30kg
8x40kg
8x50kg
8x55kg
6x60kg
5x65kg
~3x70kg [Always aiming for 5... max I've gotten is 3]
~2x75kg [Again, aiming for 5, max I've gotten is 2]

I've mixed in some Decline Bench and I actually find it a lot easier to hit a solid 8x70kg on that but the second I go to 75kg I get nowhere.

Bicep Curls
3x5x25kg

Lying EZ Tricep Extension
3x8x25kg


So yeah, embarassing.. help me? Cheers folks.

gabgab

Do you squat more than you deadlift?

Why not chins instead of Ez curls?

kevpants

Rafael High Self-indulgence wrote: »

My arms / shoulders / chest just seem disproportionately weak and I want to fix it.

That's the reason you can't seem to get your bench up. It's not your chest arms and shoulders, its your back. Your bench is only as strong as your weakest point. If your back isn't up to scratch it doesn't matter how much you train your chest or arms you will make ZERO gains, you'll plateau, which you have.

From looking at your routine I don't think your back features that much.

I would say you need to really hammer it. There's a range of exercises to choose from; bent over rows, incline bench dumbell rows, lat pulldowns, face pulls, chinups. Pick a different three every week and do them hard. Vary the reps and sets and the weight used from 5x5 with heavier weights to 8 - 15 reps for sets with lighter weight.

You won't believe the difference.

oq4v3ht0u76kf2

gabgab wrote: »

Do you squat more than you deadlift?

Why not chins instead of Ez curls?

In terms of weight, yes. In terms of amount of times, no... I had a lot of trouble getting my deadlift form sorted before I could start making gains in terms of weight lifted which slowed me down a bit.

Chins, again, strength issue. I can't do unassisted chins, and the assisted chins machine in TF Malahide is broken half the time. I do them when I can, got down to 55/60kg assistance from approx. 85kg so I'm actually chinning about 60kg. I figure as my weight goes down my assistance will as well until I don't need it.

kevpants wrote: »

That's the reason you can't seem to get your bench up. It's not your chest arms and shoulders, its your back. Your bench is only as strong as your weakest point. If your back isn't up to scratch it doesn't matter how much you train your chest or arms you will make ZERO gains, you'll plateau, which you have.

From looking at your routine I don't think your back features that much.

I would say you need to really hammer it. There's a range of exercises to choose from; bent over rows, incline bench dumbell rows, lat pulldowns, face pulls, chinups. Pick a different three every week and do them hard. Vary the reps and sets and the weight used from 5x5 with heavier weights to 8 - 15 reps for sets with lighter weight.

You won't believe the difference.

Up until two weeks ago I was doing two bent over rows in two sessions a week, but you're right... I've never trained my back brilliantly so I'll definitely focus on this. I'm guessing this is the real problem and the shìte benching numbers are more of a symptom than any real fault. I'll have a look around and draw up an A/B workout for the back and see what happens... cheers mate.

brianthebard

Whats your form like on the bench first of all? You sure its spot on, or close to it?

Roper

You're doing a massive amount of volume before attempting 75. Before you're attempting your 1RM of 80kgs, you've already lifted 48 reps at moderate to heavy weights.

Try doing your warm up and then get under the bar at 60kg and don't do 8 reps, do 3-5. You're also probably knackering your cns with all these maxes, 8 max effort benches in 14 days isn't much recovery time. Give yourself a few days off, then come back and try the way I've said above. I'd put good money on you getting the 80 no bother.

oq4v3ht0u76kf2

My form is, I think, quite good. Lie back on the bench, eyes under the bar, feet flat on the floor, most of my back on the bench. I never arch my back up. Or raise my thighs/arse for more of a push. Still unsure as to whether or not to tighten my shoulderblades onto the bench. I do it about 40% of the time I'd guess but don't seem to see a huge difference?

Grab the bar, pinkies on the rings. Control the weight down until it rests on my nipples, don't let the arms go slack though, hold it there long enough to make sure there's no bounce, push it back up under my control - not momentum - in a straight line until just before the elbows lock out at the top.

Rinse and repeat.

Any major probs there?

oq4v3ht0u76kf2

@Roper, I've been thinking about that. I might just ban the ould bench and focus on some of the back exercises that Kev suggested for a couple of weeks then come back and build up the the 1RM much faster. I also do press-ups as part of my warm-up before my work-out so these could be negatively affecting my benching I suppose?

Roper

Rafael High Self-indulgence wrote: »

@Roper, I've been thinking about that. I might just ban the ould bench and focus on some of the back exercises that Kev suggested for a couple of weeks then come back and build up the the 1RM much faster. I also do press-ups as part of my warm-up before my work-out so these could be negatively affecting my benching I suppose?

Well I wouldn't say that the press up warm up is a bad idea, but if you think about what you're doing with the bench, you're asking your muscles to do a huge quantity of work before you're attempting a 1RM. That being said, there's a fine balance between warming up and preparing your body for a big lift and knackering yourself out. I'd be interested to see what Hanley or some of the other PLers do before a 1RM attempt but I doubt they build up with that many reps.

The assitance exercises are obviously a good idea but to be honest from what you've said I think you're selling yourself short at your current level.

kevpants

Roper wrote: »

Well I wouldn't say that the press up warm up is a bad idea, but if you think about what you're doing with the bench, you're asking your muscles to do a huge quantity of work before you're attempting a 1RM. That being said, there's a fine balance between warming up and preparing your body for a big lift and knackering yourself out. I'd be interested to see what Hanley or some of the other PLers do before a 1RM attempt but I doubt they build up with that many reps.

The assitance exercises are obviously a good idea but to be honest from what you've said I think you're selling yourself short at your current level.

I ain't no powerlifter but I love training as one. Been doing WSB program for a few months and you're spot on Roper.

Rob if you are going to test your 1RM in training you should gradually work up to it from about 50 - 60% of your 1RM, you're doing way to many reps before the attempt. Here's the template from my log on bench day this week:

70kg x 5
80kg x 4
90kg x 3
100kg x 2
110kg x 1
120kg x 1
130kg x 1
125kg x 1 x 3

I worked up to my PR of 130kg and then did 3 singles at 125kg, about 95% or so of my max. This is the westside barbell method. There are others though. Mr Hanley does a Sheiko program which is different.

What this does is tax your nervous system and your muscles under big weight rather than tiring it by repetitive use, in leymans terms.

Oh yeah and ALWAYS squeeze your shoulderblades, you may not think it's making a diff but with your new strong back you will. It takes a while to get into the groove but you'll feel more solid with squez shoulder blades.

EDIT: Holy crap I just saw you did your routine 8 times in 14 days. Man that will only make things worse. Seriously you WILL get weaker. I do the above once a week FFS.

Hanley

Kev, you should give powerlifting a go! I think you'd enjoy it. You've til late March or April if you do fancy doing a comp, that's when next years nationals are on (still no location yet tho). I'll be in TF at some stage early enough (to me that means about 12) tomorrow doing my ghey leg workout if you wanna talk about it!

As for Sheiko, the title of my log's a bit of a misnomer, I've been training my bench westside style since March of this year. I jsut left the title of my log as is for nostalgic value!!

As for bench warm ups Rob.... that's exactly what they are, warm ups. If they're taking away from your top sets then you're doing too much. You outlined this in your original post;

Bench Press
8x30kg
8x40kg
8x50kg
8x55kg
6x60kg
5x65kg
~3x70kg [Always aiming for 5... max I've gotten is 3]
~2x75kg [Again, aiming for 5, max I've gotten is 2]

If you can do 5 with 65kg there's no real reason you shouldn't be within touching distance of 70kg. Maybe try doing the following next time;

20kg (ie the bar) x10
40kg x5
50kg x5
60kg x3
70kg x5

You're not going to be hitting a lot of volume like that, but you should be upping the intensity and getting stronger. If you wanted more volume you could either do another set or two with 70kg, again aiming for 5. Or drop back to 65kg and do 3x3 and then 60kg 2x5.

As for pinning your shoulders, always, always, ALWAYS do this. It'll give you a much more solid base to press from, and will stop you fubar'n them as you get stronger. Your "blast" isn't working, you need to try a different tactic to get thru the sticking point. Sometimes it takes a step back to go forward. After competitions I always drop my training weights right back and build up over time to break past my old PR's. You might wanna try something like the following (on a second day, 2 or 3 after the workout do some shoulders and triceps)...

Week 1: Bench Press 60kg x3, 50kg 3x8
Week 2: Bench Press 65kg x3, 55kg 3x6
Week 3: Bench Press 70kg x3, 60kg 3x3, 50kg 2x5
Week 4: Bench Press 70kg 2x3, 65kg 3x3
Week 5: Bench Press 70kg x5

kevpants

Hanley wrote: »

Kev, you should give powerlifting a go! I think you'd enjoy it.

It's definitely something I have in mind but my squat would let me down big styleee. I've really only been squatting with proper technique a few months. Gonna give myself till xmas and review where I'm at then. At the moment I'm loving all the broken PR's week to week!

I'm trying to add mass you my lower body and back at the moment. Mixing Max effort work one day a week with Repetion Work another day. I don't think I'm advanced enough to need that much speed work, I just need to get more muscle to work with. My ass is expanding at a fantastic rate though

Definitely will have a chat with ya in TF. I won't make it up this lunchtime cos work is too manic (if it's quiet I'll pop up though).

Sorry for hijack Rob.

Al_Fernz

Roper wrote: »

You're doing a massive amount of volume before attempting 75. Before you're attempting your 1RM of 80kgs, you've already lifted 48 reps at moderate to heavy weights.

Try doing your warm up and then get under the bar at 60kg and don't do 8 reps, do 3-5. You're also probably knackering your cns with all these maxes, 8 max effort benches in 14 days isn't much recovery time. Give yourself a few days off, then come back and try the way I've said above. I'd put good money on you getting the 80 no bother.

Bingo.

Rob, I had the same problem and I took out the volume in my warm-up sets. My bench shot up as a result.

oq4v3ht0u76kf2

Cheers for all the advice lads. Okay, took a day off the bench on Thursday and did the following based on the advice about strengthening my back..

All 3x8s
Lat Pulldown 60kg
Face-Pulls 30kg
BB Row 25kg

I enjoyed the workout, but I think I gotta look at my form for some of them because I felt very little in my back but my upper arms were burning. Is this usual?

In other news, despite my pledge to my training buddy that I wasn't going to bench for a fortnight I was spotting him doing his benching and I couldn't resist giving it a shot. I did the following:

50kg x 5
60kg x 4
70kg x 2
75kg x 2
80kg x 1

Not much compared to others, but it's been like a magic number for me for months and I'm fairly pleased. Went for a second rep but that was just me being greedy so needed help all the way up from my spotter, controlled it down well enough though.

I'm going to genuinely stay away from the bench for a couple of weeks and focus on my back, though I'm gonna have to spend a lot of time on the net trying to check the form on some of the stuff I've never done before. So yeah, cheers lads.

Hanley

There's no need to completely drop the benching. It's probably a bad idea tbh. Just reduce the warm ups and do some more work at your top weights.

Transform

The answer to increasing strength on any exercise can always be resolved from taking a break from the exercise for a 2-3 week period, work on weaknesses (rotator cuff, triceps, shoulder stabilizers etc) then drop your weight and gradually build back up again i.e. start back at about 65kg and increase the weight by 1kg every week or two.

Keep your weight dropping also and all the extra time you have from not benching so much should go into doing some cardio