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Rocket!

I know what youre thinking, not another one of these f**king threads, but i've been lurking these forums all summer and loved everything ive read so I decided to post up an introduction of sorts. Just what sort of programme im doing and my diet really. And aside from that I just plan on being a bit more active in the forum(stop all that leeching on my part!:rolleyes:)

Anyhow, heres my stats:
Age: 18
Gender: Male
Height: 6ft 1'
Weight: 72kg

Ive been gyming it for about a year now but my gym trainings have completely changed in the last 2/3 months since ive started reading posts from guys like Hanley, Colm O Reilly and the rest of you lot. I used to just hit the resistance machines for about 40 minutes and the rest of the time was spent dying on the crosstrainer in an meagre attempt to burn off beer fat from college. I made muscle gains, but they were only newb gains like.
Now I spend 2/3 hours just at weights:latest gym stats(approximately):
Resistance machines:
92kgs Chest Press 3x8
66kgs Shoulder Lift 3x8
45kgs Cable Pulldown 3x10
81kgs Fly 3x10
92kgs Lats pull 3x10(not sure what its called tbh, will recheck)
52kgs Lats pulldown 3x10 (just started these. Same as previous machine except your pulling the weights down vertically, not towards you horizontally)


Squat: started this 2months ago(at 60kg):
Warmup
105kgs: 5x10 (this seems a little high reps by yer standards and although I am DYING at the end of it, it would lead me to think maybe im not going parallel enough?)

Straight-Leg DeadLift: 2 months ago too(at 50kg)
80kgs 5x5 (this is the best way of feeling pumped in the history of the world. Fact.)

Now, im kind of a lone wolf in the gym, prefer to get to business than be messing with the lads, and as a result Ive never bothered benching but Im guessing its inevitable that I start. What would be a good weight to start at? 60kg 5x5?
Also, I do lots of ab stuff and core body exercises.


Diet: This has improved immensly as of late. I used to have a terrible appetite and eat absolutely f**k all. My metabolism must have been going at a snails pace. Props to the stickies from the likes of G'em and EileenG for changing that! Ive really seen tangible gains since ive started eating more. Plus, its much more satisfying to eat more!!:D
Pretty much the same everyday for the last 2 months, except at the weekends(I'll always end up eating some **** when im locked although not much by average standards. Its probably just the drink that messes up my diet at the weekend. Bout 10-15 pints and a whole lot of whiskey!)

Breakfast: 8.30am
30g of porridge oats made on water and soya milk
or
Omlette, 3 whites 1 full with some cheddar cheese on top
or
Pancakes made with porridge oats, protein, egg whites and water.
Always have green tea with breakfast plus a codliver oil tab.

Break: 10am
Coffee

Lunch: 12.30pm
Loads of lettuce drenched in apple cider vinegar with either: tuna/chicken/salmon. Plus lots of water.
Coffee.

Dinner: 5.30pm
Bout 500g of brocolli drenched in apple cider vinegar(love the stuff!:) )
Loads of meat: Either steak/chicken/steak mince/salmon/stew
Usually have some other veg too, onion and pepper stir fry, cauliflower, carrots etc

Snack:6.30pm
Usually snack after dinner with something nice: peanut butter/glenisk yougurt/apple/cottage cheese/protein shake(i love them!! Dont know what ppl are complaing about!) and some green/white tea.

PWO: 10.30pm
Protein Shake

Before bed: ?pm
Protein Shake made with soya milk and linseed oil. Maybe some peanut butter, id eat that sh*t all day...


Goals:
1). Get completely ripped. My 6 pack is starting to make an appearence lately, especially the top two muscles of the rectus abdimus(sp!) thingymajigy. Im around 8/9/10% bf at the moment. It fluctuates like. I aim to be down at a steady 5% by the end of october. I guess im gonna have to start cardio again...

2). After Im happy with my bf in general I intend to bulk up. I think Im at a calorific deficit most days, so I guess this would have to change, so lots more eating after October! I intend to be familiar with the big 3 compound exercises by then and aim to be lifting well on all 3 accounts by christmas.

3). I want to increase strenght substantially. This is mainly for sport(american football) plus I want to take up a Martial art. Probably MMA. Something intense. I should prob ask Roper or someone about that im guessing.


Anyways, cheers if anybody takes the time to look and give a bit of advice, much appreciated.
Im late for the gym, i'll post up diet and stuff when I get back.

kevpants

Welcome! What are your goals? Do you wanna look a certain way or just get strong. Setting a goal is one of the least popular topics but I feel it's really important.

If your answe is "ehhhhh I dunno", I'd recommend sitting down and thinking what you want and when you want to achieve it. Where so you want be by XMas, this time last year etc...

Once you've done that we'll start chastising you for using the resistance machines!!!:p

Rocket!

Posted up my diet and goals! Its turned into an essay as a result...sorry about that!

You read my mind Kev, was just about to say I should post up my goals as well. Haha, I knew I had it coming for the resistance machines!
Let the giving outs commence...

Al_Fernz

If you're squatting 105kgs 5x10 after a few months @ 72kgs and 6'1 thats great progress. However, I'd have my reservations that your form is rock solid. It seems quite high when contrasted with your stiff leg deadlift.

Also if you goal is to look good then 5% bodyfat at 72kgs and 6'1 is not the way to go IMO. You won't have enough muscle mass to create the "ripped," effect that I think you are looking for.

There's no good starting weight on the bench. The most important thing is for you to learn the form properly. If your doing 5x5's then start with a weight that is handy enough for you in the first week and increase it by 2.5kgs a week. If your implementing a 5x5 scheme and trying to bring your numbers up failure is not the way to go IMO.

kevpants

Rocket! wrote: »

2). After Im happy with my bf in general I intend to bulk up. I think Im at a calorific deficit most days, so I guess this would have to change, so lots more eating after October! I intend to be familiar with the big 3 compound exercises by then and aim to be lifting well on all 3 accounts by christmas.

This is the only point you might have to rethink. You can't really expect to do your cut right down and then start bulking. I'd recommend the opposite, put on some real mass by lifting heavy, getting stronger and eating plenty. You'll put on a little flab too but it's an accepted side affect. Your height and weight would make me think you could probably carry it ok at the mo.

Other, better athletes than myself here may be able to advise on how to get ripped and stay there while bulking but as you're relatively new to it I don't think it would be the optimal method.

Would getting to your target level of bulk then stripping the flab sound ok?

Tips on the lifts that have helped me:

Bench: Work your back, work your back and work your back. You will not believe the increase in your bench with a strong back. I started the year 2008 witha 100kg bench at 93kg. I'm now 100kg and pressed 130kg yesterday with 135kg in the tank for next week all going well. This is all down to working the living jaysus out of my back. Try it. Bent over rows, incline bench dumbell rows, chins, lat pulldowns and facepulls.

Squat & Deadlift: Like Al said if your squat is bigger than your deadlift you aint squattin deep enough .

Learn to squat, do a Youtube search for Mark Rippetoe Squat, then squat often.

Work your lower back and hamstrings (and the ar5e in between!). Good mornings, Romanian Deadlifts, Hypers are all good. Thes will help with the squat and the deadlift.

Get these right and start getting stronger, you'll notice your size increasing practically weekly. Will help with your explosive power for the auld Gridiron too.

Diet seems ok but maybe add our friend Milk in there as a way of getting calories and protein without actually having a meal. It's handy.

Best of luck and let us know3 how you get on.

Colm_OReilly

Since you thanked me (you're welcome, glad I could help) let me be brief and blunt with my suggestions

Squat - buy Starting Strength (or if you're seriously cheap, download it) look at the youtube vids of Rip coaching.

Why stiff legged deadlift? Why no regular deadlift?

Press - do it.

Power Cleans - do them. They get you all the chicks . Don't be afraid of it, it's not dangerous.

Ditch those silly machines. If you really need a machine, row. Rowing's brilliant.

MMA? Come down to me and then thank me for getting you in shape Then buy me a beer.

Colm
-In quite the cheeky mood today.

Transform

At your height your not going to look too impressive until you get to at least 83kg.

Easy enough having a 6 pack at 11-12stone but you need to up your overall food intake.

Work harder on the squat and do deadlifts or trap bar deadlifts if your gym has a bar - they might work better for you at your height.

Brian?

Colm_OReilly wrote: »

Since you thanked me (you're welcome, glad I could help) let me be brief and blunt with my suggestions

Squat - buy Starting Strength (or if you're seriously cheap, download it) look at the youtube vids of Rip coaching.

Why stiff legged deadlift? Why no regular deadlift?

Press - do it.

Power Cleans - do them. They get you all the chicks . Don't be afraid of it, it's not dangerous.

Ditch those silly machines. If you really need a machine, row. Rowing's brilliant.

MMA? Come down to me and then thank me for getting you in shape Then buy me a beer.

Colm
-In quite the cheeky mood today.

Thats a lot more in depth than "squats and milk".

Strange.

Rocket!

Had a good long 3hr session this evening to try out some of yer suggestions. Only did 2 sets on the resistance machines you'll be glad to know. Im slowly weening myself off them...
Right, sorted out my squats. My form was definitely a big concern of mine and I checked out some of those Rippetoe vids on Youtube. I was definitely hitting parallel today because I could only do 5x8 of 95kg. Further proof was the fact that I felt like puking my ring up after it! Plus, Ive been walking like a penguin since I got home.
No pain no gain...

Did some goodmornings(which I found good) and more stiff deadlifts too.
Started to bench. 45kg 5x1 55kg 5x2 then 65kg 5x2. Was a little disappointed that 65 was as much as I could push but I suppose it just leaves more room for improvement.

The reason Ive been doing stiff deads instead of the regular sort is just down to the fact that Im unsure of the execution tbh. Ive a rubbish gym at home and theres nobody big to learn from which is annoying, as I find it easier to learn something physical through imitation and repetition but there ya go... guess I'll just have to just start making better use of youtube!

Im getting the general impression you would all recommend bulking up to a size im happy with first and then cutting to get maximum effect. So I guess I should start upping my calories then. Even though, the idea of putting on some flab isnt hugely appealing tbh!:D Basically what Im after is to reach a decent size(nothing huge) and to just have a ripped body thereafter for the forseeable future. I hate using those buzz words like ripped and toned, but thats the best way I can think of describing it. Basically a body that a member of the cast of 300 would be proud of! And no, not yer man with the spear and bad back...

Right, so tommorrow its power cleans(cause lets face it lads, its all about the chicks!:D)
Thanks a million for all the advice so far, I really feel like its gonna get me alot more focused.

Al_Fernz

Get rid of the 3 hour sessions, resistance machine work and soy milk. Why do you have to ween yourself off the machines? Its not like giving up smoking.

Don't spend longer than 1.5 hours in the gym and eat more. Start by eating more eggs for breakfast.

I can't understand why you won't deadlift because your worried about your form and on the other hand you are happy to do power cleans. Power cleans are a far more advanced technique IMO and involve the basic principal of deadlifting. Basically, if you can't deadlift with good technique then you aren't going to be able to power clean.

What routine are you doing/planning to do?

Colm_OReilly

briankeating wrote: »

Thats a lot more in depth than "squats and milk".

Strange.

Lol. Good point. See what a thank you gets?

Al Frenz is right about the PC, which slipped my mind because most people have difficultly with the jump and rack, so that's where we start off teaching them.

Head here and have a look at the clean videos and descriptions.
Ditto here. The hang power clean is what you should get the hang of before progressing to a power clean.

Al, I'd say he likes machines because they probably give you the pump, which is probably what people think hard exercise is meant to feel like, rather than fatigue or failure, which feels completely different.

But yeah, Rocket, stop doing them. Go buy SS and learn to deadlift, there's fairly detailed vids with Rip on the Deadlift on the CrossFit site as well.

Also, you can get bigger without putting on too much flab. Anyway, if you have the broad shoulders, the gut seems less by comparison (credit Courtney 2006 on that one)

Colm
-That's another beer you owe me

Rocket!

I fully intend to start regular deadlifting Al, the only reason I havnt started as of yet is because I really wasnt sure how! Ive been looking at vids tho and Im planning to try it properly tonight. I was kinda joking about the power clean, just making reference to the chicks like!:) I probably wont be able for it yet, but I do intend to give it a go and start studyin its technique at any rate.

I put in a request with my local bookstore for Starting Strength a few weeks ago but theyre useless! Would I be better off ordering off the net? Easons?
Im planning on using Starting Strength as my programme or do ye think I might be able for something a bit more advanced?

Is it a good idea to ditch the Soy milk yeah? Ive been using fullfat milk in all my protein shakes for the last few days now(taste great btw) and Ive been trying to eat as much as I can but this is where my pussy appetite is coming back to bite me in the ass! I find peanut butter is doing fairly good to up the calories. Is it better to eat loads before or after a session or is it irrelevent when I take in the calories?
Im making an order with TheSupplementFactory tonight. Any recommendations on what to get? Recovery, NRG Blast and a restock of protein was what I was thinking. Should I bother with casein protein or stick to good old regular whey?

Right Im off to buy a crate of tiger, I have a feeling Im going to owe ye lads at least that much by the time your done with me!! Colm, you can keep tabs...

Roper

Rocket! wrote: »

3). I want to increase strenght substantially. This is mainly for sport(american football) plus I want to take up a Martial art. Probably MMA. Something intense. I should prob ask Roper or someone about that im guessing.

What? Ask me what? I get a mention and Reilly gets a thank you? F*ck's sake.

Colm_OReilly

Roper wrote: »

What? Ask me what? I get a mention and Reilly gets a thank you? F*ck's sake.

Finally people are separating the wheat from the chaff Barry

You'll need to order SS off the net, pay your money directly to Rip so order off www.startingstrength.com - you'll get your book in about a week I'd say, and it's well worth it.

You're a novice. Enjoy it as you can make linear gains (adding more weight to the bar each workout). Most people if they did SS novice routine would make linear gains for a while.

I'd advise against supplements and just say eat healthy, natural foods. Plenty of meat, and drink your milk.

Colm
-Prefers Pear Kopparberg

gabgab

Colm_OReilly wrote: »

Colm-Prefers Pear Kopparberg

Lady drink,

Rocket!

Al_Fernz wrote: »

Get rid of the 3 hour sessions, resistance machine work and soy milk. Why do you have to ween yourself off the machines? Its not like giving up smoking.

Don't spend longer than 1.5 hours in the gym and eat more. Start by eating more eggs for breakfast.

I can't understand why you won't deadlift because your worried about your form and on the other hand you are happy to do power cleans. Power cleans are a far more advanced technique IMO and involve the basic principal of deadlifting. Basically, if you can't deadlift with good technique then you aren't going to be able to power clean.

What routine are you doing/planning to do?

Hit the gym a bit late yesterday. Spent a hour and a half squating, benching, goodmorning-ing, and regular deadlifting. And I didnt go near the resistence machine once. Not once I tells ya!And Ive been drinking my milk.
I think Im learning...

Roper wrote: »

What? Ask me what? I get a mention and Reilly gets a thank you? F*ck's sake.

Haha, sorry, didnt mean to be leaving anyone out in the praise department! From what Ive seen you seem to be the man in the know when it comes to MMA. Are you an instructor or a particpant? Where abouts in Dublin is your club? Im interested in getting invoved anyways...

Colm_OReilly wrote: »

Colm
-Prefers Pear Kopparberg

Duely noted...

Beau

Do you have a solid program written down yet? You sound like you are going into the gym and randomly doing things.

Rocket!

Up until the last week, i had a solid routine for the last 2 months. As in, Id do the exact same things in the exact same time frame just with linear gains. It was consistent like, but obviously lacking.

But yeah, I admit that the last week has been a bit random cause im trying out new things. Theres been squatting, benching and deadlifting in every session though so at least that counts for something.
Im planning on using Starting Strength as my set routine. Should be getting it in the post anyday now! So hopefully that'll set me right!

Roper

Rocket! wrote: »

Haha, sorry, didnt mean to be leaving anyone out in the praise department! From what Ive seen you seem to be the man in the know when it comes to MMA. Are you an instructor or a particpant? Where abouts in Dublin is your club? Im interested in getting invoved anyways...

No I'm not the man in the know I just have the biggest opinions, there's a difference

My club is in Glasnevin in the links below. Colm O'Reilly has one in Tallaghfornia too.

Transform

You made a point on increasing you weight and 'bulking up' - there is absolutely no need what so ever to put on fat while gaining 1-2stone in weight.

If your gaining fat then your diet needs adjustments

bulking up is just a BS bodybuilding term that gives them an excuse to eat like crap for a few months then sort their diet out and drop body fat hoping they won't drop too much muscle also. I can never unverstand ANYONE who parades around the gym with their bloated overweight body and proclaim they are in their 'bulking phase' - yes for the past 2 years your bulking, riiiiight. And pound for pound they are normally unbelievably weak.

Get stonger bit by bit and eating clean your weight will increase over time

Rocket!

Transform wrote: »

You made a point on increasing you weight and 'bulking up' - there is absolutely no need what so ever to put on fat while gaining 1-2stone in weight.

If your gaining fat then your diet needs adjustments

bulking up is just a BS bodybuilding term that gives them an excuse to eat like crap for a few months then sort their diet out and drop body fat hoping they won't drop too much muscle also. I can never unverstand ANYONE who parades around the gym with their bloated overweight body and proclaim they are in their 'bulking phase' - yes for the past 2 years your bulking, riiiiight. And pound for pound they are normally unbelievably weak.

Get stonger bit by bit and eating clean your weight will increase over time

Thats exactly what I want to do, gain about 2 stone of muscle without the increase in fat. Sorry if I sound like I dont know what I want, and I dont mean to be using those buzz bodybuilding words either. Nobody likes the guy who talks the talk about getting stong and fit and then is as meek as a kitten themselves.
So, you reckon if I keep my diet the way it is and add in the extra calories from more clean food and milk etc etc, keep lifting, I should be able to put on the weight without much fat gain? Sounds good, thanks.

Roper wrote: »

No I'm not the man in the know I just have the biggest opinions, there's a difference

My club is in Glasnevin in the links below. Colm O'Reilly has one in Tallaghfornia too.

Opinions count for something...i suppose!:D

Glasnevin? Sweet. Im in DCU!
Sorry to be a general annoyance, but wheres the links??:o

Roper

Rocket! wrote: »

Glasnevin? Sweet. Im in DCU!
Sorry to be a general annoyance, but wheres the links??:o

Um, they'd be the blue things in my signature?:pac:

Al_Fernz

Rocket! wrote: »

Thats exactly what I want to do, gain about 2 stone of muscle without the increase in fat. Sorry if I sound like I dont know what I want, and I dont mean to be using those buzz bodybuilding words either. Nobody likes the guy who talks the talk about getting stong and fit and then is as meek as a kitten themselves.
So, you reckon if I keep my diet the way it is and add in the extra calories from more clean food and milk etc etc, keep lifting, I should be able to put on the weight without much fat gain? Sounds good, thanks.

Dude you're 18! You have so much time in front of you it makes me one big green envious monster.

Learn how to squat and deadlift with good form. Don't worry about what weight you are lifting. The weight will come, but it's vital to get your form right first.

Of course you need to eat more to gain muscle mass. But again I must emphasize that time is on your side (God I sound like a Bulmer's ad now!). If you eat more, train hard and rest you will gain. The weighing scales and mirror are the best methods for evaluating your progress. If you're not gaining weight it means you need to eat more. The opposite applies to sudden dramatic weight-gain. Keep reassessing and reforming, you have the time to make small mistakes.

Transform

Get a small book or copy where you can write in your training every single session.

I was just looking at some of mine i have held on to when i was about 21 (was 6'2" and weighed just over 12stone) and started working in gyms - i was lucky to have gotten good advice on simple, compound training way back when i worked in UCD and all of that still stands to me today.

Focus on getting stonger by tiny amounts every week or two, eat clean and stay consistent.

Rocket!

Al_Fernz wrote: »

Dude you're 18! You have so much time in front of you it makes me one big green envious monster.

Learn how to squat and deadlift with good form. Don't worry about what weight you are lifting. The weight will come, but it's vital to get your form right first.

Of course you need to eat more to gain muscle mass. But again I must emphasize that time is on your side (God I sound like a Bulmer's ad now!). If you eat more, train hard and rest you will gain. The weighing scales and mirror are the best methods for evaluating your progress. If you're not gaining weight it means you need to eat more. The opposite applies to sudden dramatic weight-gain. Keep reassessing and reforming, you have the time to make small mistakes.

Yeah you're probably right, i know im fairly young yet but im kinda strange when it comes to things like this. I like to set goals for myself and see results. Im hoping to be at a size and fitness that im happy with by the time Im finished college so all I have to do is eat clean with less frequent workouts after that, cause I probably wont have the time for anything more intense from then on. But thats still a good 3 years away, so your right, Ive got a lot of time before Im there. Maybe those Bulmers guys knew what they were talking about!:D

On a sidenote, I know its only been a week or so, but I really do feel a difference, especially in my lower back. I really feel this is down to the improved form of squats and starting the regular deads. Thanks for putting me on the right track.

Transform wrote: »

Get a small book or copy where you can write in your training every single session.

I was just looking at some of mine i have held on to when i was about 21 (was 6'2" and weighed just over 12stone) and started working in gyms - i was lucky to have gotten good advice on simple, compound training way back when i worked in UCD and all of that still stands to me today.

Focus on getting stonger by tiny amounts every week or two, eat clean and stay consistent.

Im really beginning to learn that consistency definitely is key. No doubt about it.
I think the copy idea is great. I'll start that right away. Do you think starting a fitness log on here might make a difference as well?
A bit of a personel question - do mind me asking, if you were around 12 stone when you started at 21, what sort of size/weight/fitness are you at now??

Thanks again everyone

Transform

I'm still 12stone but much more 'toned'

Only joking, i am 14st 4lbs, have run a 3hr 11min marathon or a sub 40mins 10km and while some people constantly want to try to reinvent the wheel with fancy pants split bodybuilding programs, the basics have always stood to me and focusing on getting stronger over the months and years not the days and weeks.

Rocket!

Just wondering if any of the mods could move this out of the way of the general forum and into the fitness logs section.
Want to start writing my sessions on here as well as on paper. Just so I can ask some questions as things pop up in my head during training.

Thanks in advance. Much appreciated.

Rocket!

Just gonna write in the trainings so far this week:
Monday:

Squats
71 kg 8x2
91 kg 8x2
101 kg x8

Good Mornings
41 kg 8x3

Bicep Curls
31 kg 5x3

Bench Press
41 kg x8
61 kg 5x2
66 kg x4(had to stop on fifth one!:mad:)
63.5 kg x5

Deadlift
66 kg x5
86 kg 5x2
91 kg 5x2


Wednesday

Squats
71 kg x8
91 kg 8x3
101 kg x8

Bench Press
41 kg x8
61 kg 5x2
66 kg 5x2

Cardo - Boxing: 6 mins intensive, split 1 minute, 30 sec break; 2 minutes, 30 sec break; 3 minutes, 30 sec break.

Deadlift
66 kg x5
86 kg 5
91 kg 5x2
96 kg x5


Cant remember fridays training, forgot to write it down. Was more or less the same: Squats, bench, chins and lat pulldowns if I remember correctly. Was pretty knackered on friday evening though, wasnt the best training. Still, any gym is better than no gym!
On a downside, found out that the bar on the Smith machine I use is 11kg not 15kg like I thought.:(
I seemed a lot stronger last Sunday!:D

If any mods have the time to move this into the logs section it'd be great.

Cheers