"Those damn foreigners again"

faceman

Saw this article in the Indo today. I bleeding hate the paper but the article does raise a valid question or 2, in a round about way.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/risible-lies-about-immigrants-no-substitute-for-honest-debate-1456226.html

In summary the article discusses statistics from the CSO that shows that Nigerians are the second beneficiaries of state paid rent in Ireland yet only 38% of Nigerians at working age are working.

The journalist is trying to suggest that no one wants to talk about the topic because its *controversial*!

What do you think? Best left for pub banter? Do you really give a toss if a mere 3,024 non EU citizens are availing of free rent when we live in a country of almost 5m people?

Steyr

Controversial my hole, they should all be working, contributing to the Economy.

mike65

Eh? A bit late Faceman.

Mike.

Captain Ginger

Steyr wrote: »

Controversial my hole, they should all be working, contributing to the Economy.

+1

godtabh

mike65 wrote: »

Eh? A bit late Faceman.

Mike.

How so?

baldbear

They should be shipped out if they wont work. Sroungers.

godtabh

baldbear wrote: »

They should be shipped out if they wont work. Sroungers.

I see you put a lot of thought into that

Shyster

Captain Ginger wrote: »

+1

+2

You can't just expect to come over here, not work, and get money from the state when you are contributing nothing to the economy. Some of the foreigners are getting social welfare for everything and anything, rent allowances and grants to go to college here

chin_grin

baldbear wrote: »

They should be shipped out if they wont work. Sroungers.

Eh.........um..........(sits in wait for this comment to be pounced on <- not proper Engerlish! OMG!)

copeyhagen

im all for the argument that if they dont wanna work, then they can gtfo.

and dont get me started on the shower of cu*ts that are out begging in town with babies...

Sizzler

Letters Section, Todays Independent wrote:

Tuesday August 19 2008

KEVIN Myers’ recent article on immigration understates the problem with Nigerian immigration and social welfare benefits.
According to the Department of Trade’s records, 332 work permits were granted to Nigerians over the years while fewer than 150 were granted refugee status during the same period by the minister for justice.


Stated Government policy and Irish immigration law prohibits the payment of welfare benefits to non-EU nationals, other than those granted refugee status. That, in effect, means the maximum number of Nigerians eligible to claim welfare benefits here is 150.


A massive number of Nigerians have immigrated illegally to Ireland. The previous Minister for Justice stated that no amnesty was to be granted to these people, yet a scheme was designed to allow them remain in Ireland called the IBC/05 scheme.


This scheme granted the right of full welfare benefits to these illegal immigrants.


Those who came to Ireland illegally may, if they so choose, claim unemployment and rental accommodation payments and all other welfare benefits including medical cards.


In effect, the scheme created a new category of immigrant, one that has no lawful basis. Thousands of illegal Nigerian immigrants have never worked in Ireland, yet the Irish taxpayer has to pay for them for the rest of their natural lives.


The IBC/05 scheme was grafted on to existing immigration law, even though no legislation for the provision of welfare benefits to illegal immigrants exists. No Bill to accommodate it was brought before the Oireachtas and no vote on this scheme was ever taken even though it requires a massive diversion of publicly raised funds destined for other purposes and voted on by Dail Eireann.


The scheme was implemented in January 2005. More illegal immigrants were granted leave to remain here under this scheme then than the combined total of legal immigrants granted work permits from non-EU countries over the past four years.


Some 23,178 Nigerians are registered with the Department of social welfare. How is this number possible?


Extrapolating from the figures published last week Nigerians alone are receiving a minimum of €100m in benefits per year. This figure is likely much higher.


The scale of the problem is apparent to ordinary Irish people.


The regulation and enforcement of immigration law and policies is currently in a state of anarchy. Resentment of this injustice against the Irish people is ignored by the political establishment and allowed to fester.


I voted ‘No’ in the Lisbon referendum because of immigration issues. This was the first public expression of that resentment. The time for a debate was before this problem got out of hand, not now. What is now required is action, deportations. We need the political expression of this resentment and soon.


FRANK MAGEE


DUBLIN 17

Pretty much somes it up for me.

Captain Ginger

I have no problem with people coming over here from wherever if they're willing to earn an honest living, pay their taxes and give back to the country they're taking from.

I don't like the idea of people coming over thinking it's an easy ride and us tax payers will just support them with a smile.

dlofnep

I've no time for any dole spongers. Be it Irish, Nigerian or any other nationality. Earn your keep! Or begone.

Neamhshuntasach

I hate all that PC controvesy bollix that surrounds points raised about non nationals. Everybody dances around it as if they are afraid they'll be accused of being racist.

But if it's ignored it's gonna create a divide because they'll grow up here never being fully integrated. I was in town the other day and a group of Africans were running amok on O Connell street outside Dr. Quirkey's. About 20 of them fighting each other in 2 groups and bumping into people at the bus stop and shouting and all that stuff. You could see the old people at the bus stops looked afraid because they looked like they wanted to kill each other they way they were going on. 2 Garda cars drove by and never stopped. There were about 3 guards at the corner of Henry street who could see down and a Guard popped his head out to see what all the noise was from the Garda station on O Connell street. Not a thing was done about this and it went on for about 15 minutes or so. But i guarantee you if that was a bunch of Irish scum bags they would have been down pulling everyone away into cars.

Stuff like the above is just going to create ghettos and the feeling that they can get away with things because the Guards are afraid to go near them in case racism is screamed.

andrew

*Waits for anecdote regarding some extravagent benefit immigrants supposedly get.*

But yeah, if they can work they should work. If they're not working they should be deported. Simple as.

Edit:

I voted ‘No’ in the Lisbon referendum because of immigration issues.

:rolleyes:

Captain Ginger

dlofnep wrote: »

I've no time for any dole spongers. Be it Irish, Nigerian or any other nationality. Earn your keep! Or begone.

Well, my dad had to go on the dole for a while. He's in his 50s, worked all his life, his buisness went bust and due to his age he found it very hard to get a job, he had a family to support and so I hold nothing against him or people like him having to go on it for a few weeks.

It's just the scumbags who live off it without doing any work and not bothering to get a job.

mike65

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055356988

Mike.

boogle

It just proves what we all suspected anyway. I've worked with Nigerians in the health sector for a time, along with every other nationality under the sun. I honestly think Nigerians are here for the easy ride, and having a great time.

MIN2511

My conclusion... deport every fecking Nigerian! Including myself....


Refugee status granted = MUST WORK
Refugee status not granted = DEPORTED, if appealed and case won then allow into the country
Immigrants who are studying or working = NO PROBLEMO


Actually OP change thread to those bloody Nigerians!



generally this thread would head towards racism, but the fact of the matter is majority of the immigrants exploiting the system are Nigerians and until that change people like me would receive stupid unwarranted insults!
Like the fecking spam on AH which was ******!!!!

MIN2511

boogle wrote: »

It just proves what we all suspected anyway. I've worked with Nigerians in the health sector for a time, along with every other nationality under the sun. I honestly think Nigerians are here for the easy ride, and having a great time.

So the Nigerians you worked with "are here for the easy ride" :rolleyes: Care to elaborate?

connundrum

Frank Magee wrote:

Extrapolating from the figures published last week Nigerians alone are receiving a minimum of €100m in benefits per year. This figure is likely much higher.

Thats a few bob alright. It could probably be put to a much better use, but knowing the way finances are managed in the govt, it probably wouldn't be put to good use. Ach well!

Charity starts at home and all that jazz.

gino85

MIN2511 wrote: »

Refugee status granted = MUST WORK
Refugee status not granted = DEPORTED, if appealed and case won then allow into the country
Immigrants who are studying or working = NO PROBLEMO

i could not have put it better myself

i hate the whole ''im here because i was abused in my home country'' sob story, if they allowed to stay then they can get a damn job and contribute to thier new homeland

KTRIC

MIN2511 wrote: »

My conclusion... deport every fecking Nigerian! Including myself....

generally this thread would head towards racism,

Were you handed that racism card when you arrived in Ireland or did you have to apply for it ??

This is the type of sh!te people are afraid of, complaining about the foreigners and you get branded a racist by them.

The complaints are valid, its not racism.

MIN2511

gino85 wrote: »

i could not have put it better myself

i hate the whole ''im here because i was abused in my home country'' sob story, if they allowed to stay then they can get a damn job and contribute to thier new homeland

It's a pity you and i are not ruling the country;)

all the stars

I only think it should all be done fairly.

I.E:
when i was out of work i was told i was entitled to nothing. Me, a long time working citizen who was conned by employer and given fake p60's.Then they removed my medical card.

However, someone who never worked at all is entitled. unfair me thinks.
This system completely allows for leeching. Hopefully in time it gets right. But Goverment in this country and all that ... cant see it getting changed.

Dragan

KTRIC wrote: »

Were you handed that racism card when you arrived in Ireland or did you have to apply for it ??

This is the type of sh!te people are afraid of, complaining about the foreigners and you get branded a racist by them.

The complaints are valid, its not racism.

Actually she is spot on, generally these threads head down the route of generalisations, severe stereotypes, ignorance and racism.

Give it about 5 pages.

dodgyme

I think the OP should change the title to reflect the group he is actually talking about. i.e. nigerians

MIN2511

KTRIC wrote: »

Were you handed that racism card when you arrived in Ireland or did you have to apply for it ??

This is the type of sh!te people are afraid of, complaining about the foreigners and you get branded a racist by them.

The complaints are valid, its not racism.

Dude... I am not complaining! I couldn't be arsed! There has been similar threads in AH in recent days and a lot of them changed direction. This thread like others would turn into that.

I would ask you to retract that statement

Were you handed that racism card when you arrived in Ireland or did you have to apply for it ??

You don't know me, we can talk about the foreigners for all i care... I would even contribute to the banter.

KTRIC

Dragan wrote: »

Actually she is spot on, generally these threads head down the route of generalisations, severe stereotypes, ignorance and racism.

Give it about 5 pages.

Thats AH for you. Perhaps this would be better in Humanities. Noting racist has been said yet, so no call for concern.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

oh for **** sake
we already had a thread about this a couple of ****ing days ago

will you gormless morons learn to search the forum before you post?

dlofnep

Captain Ginger wrote: »

Well, my dad had to go on the dole for a while. He's in his 50s, worked all his life, his buisness went bust and due to his age he found it very hard to get a job, he had a family to support and so I hold nothing against him or people like him having to go on it for a few weeks.

It's just the scumbags who live off it without doing any work and not bothering to get a job.

What your father did is not "dole sponging".

Dole-spongers are the latter of what you said. And I repeat, I have no time for dole-spongers. I myself was on the dole for 3 months while looking for a job. That is what it is there for - to assist you while you try to get a job. Not to use as a regular income so you don't have to work.

Reku

I would have to say I fault the system as much as the people who abuse it. Make them work, even if it's just chain gang type work for the local councils as long as it's getting them out, getting them earning their keep then all's great. It'll benefit us in terms of detering the genuine moochers and having a workforce there to do the jobs our own are too snobby to turn their hands to and it'll benefit them by removing the stigma of them being viewed as lazy moochers, making it easier for them to get a job when they are ready (could even use the work crew leader as a reference).
I'd feel the same about those claiming dole long term (as in little hope of them finding a job at this point), give them something to do same benefits for both groups again.

KTRIC

MIN2511 wrote: »

Dude... I am not complaining! I couldn't be arsed! There has been similar threads in AH in recent days and a lot of them changed direction. This thread like others would turn into that.

I would ask you to retract that statement
You don't know me, we can talk about the foreigners for all i care... I would even contribute to the banter.

I will not retract anything. You brought up the "R" word, not me or anyone else. It is typical of foreigners that are put under the spot light for any reason to use that term.

meditraitor

How do we get rid of them? or at least make them contribute!

gino85

dlofnep wrote: »

What your father did is not "dole sponging".

Dole-spongers are the latter of what you said. And I repeat, I have no time for dole-spongers. I myself was on the dole for 3 months while looking for a job. That is what it is there for - to assist you while you try to get a job. Not to use as a regular income so you don't have to work.

ill be honost i was on the dole for 3 months and never bothered to look for a job, i did get one at the end of the summer and worked there for 6 months before they announced they were closeing shop, i found another job while i was still working and had 1 day off before i started my new job, been working at that job for over 2 years now and even tho i dislike it id rather earn my money than just have it handed to me

my dad on the other hand was made redundant about the same time i got my new job and decided that he wanted to start up his own business, he was on the dole and done some training in boiler repairs, started up his own business now he is looking to get back to work allownace while his renewable energies company gets on its feet( he installs wind turbines and solar panals)

Wreck

Frank Magee wrote:

I voted ‘No’ in the Lisbon referendum because of immigration issues.

Lol. Another fcuking moronic reason for voting no. Also this discussion has already been done and it was decided that the Chinese are a great bunch of lads, and I'm not a racist.

gino85

Wreck wrote: »

Lol. Another fcuking moronic reason for voting no. Also this discussion has already been done and it was decided that the Chinese are a great bunch of lads, and I'm not a racist.

i voted no because i didnt understand the treaty as a whole, is that a vaild reason?

briantwin

If its not the tax i'm after paying its me credit card their after :pac:

Steve_o

gino85 wrote: »

i voted no because i didnt understand the treaty as a whole, is that a vaild reason?

Holy jaysus not Lisbon again.....

briantwin wrote: »

If its not the tax i'm after paying its me credit card their after :pac:

Down with that sort of thing!:p

briantwin

gino85 wrote: »

i voted no because i didnt understand the treaty as a whole, is that a vaild reason?

No....read the fúckin manual!

Wreck

gino85 wrote: »

i voted no because i didnt understand the treaty as a whole, is that a vaild reason?

Take it to politics .

The answer is no

faceman

dodgyme wrote: »

I think the OP should change the title to reflect the group he is actually talking about. i.e. nigerians

To be fair, if the article said that it was some other nationality that was doing it, people would probably jump on that nationality too!

|-*SxyDubGrrl93*-| wrote: »

oh for **** sake
we already had a thread about this a couple of ****ing days ago

will you gormless morons learn to search the forum before you post?

The other thread didnt show up in my search.

No need to be racist dude, Im sure the people of Moron outside Buenos Aires in Argentina would take exception to being called gormless.

I for one aint gormless, the search function made me that way.

andrew

When you think about it, foreginers really can't win can they? Either they're taking our jobs, or sponging off us. Yup, sucks to be an immigrant.

Silenceisbliss

I want to add a new rule if I may, getting very tiresome with the amount of these threads in recent weeks.

*Absoultely no threads to be posted involving immigrant bashing or inciting immigrant bashing, Eastern European or otherwise. Users posting such threads will be banned.

ha, seems Ruu is on holiers

briantwin

andrew wrote: »

When you think about it, foreginers really can't win can they? Either they're taking our jobs, or sponging off us. Yup, sucks to be an immigrant.

Well no i dont agree with that at all. If they have a job they will be paying tax AT LEAST!! If they are living off social welfare its kind of like doubling our losses dont you think....

Reku

He does have a point though, in the current economic downturn, with unemployment on the rise people could try to blame the foreigners for taking our jobs while at the same time complaining about the ones who are living off state benefits for not working. Logic does not always manifest itself too well in human minds.:(
Basically it'd result in a "the only good foreigner is a absent one" type sentiment.

gandalf

I have no problem with anyone once they are making a contribution, its the guys who do not even make an effort to go out and get a job and expect the state to hand them cash etc. Doesn't matter if they are Irish or not, if someone is not making an effort to get a job they should be forced into working. Christ we have plenty of shores that the councils aren't clearing. No welfare benefits unless you do 15-20 hours of Service to the community. If they are an illegal immigrant then they should be deported.

I also have a severe problem with people who have skills are waiting ages for a hearing on asylum and are not allowed to work. If they have skills that are of use to the community then they should be allowed to work, earn a wage and reduce the cost to the Irish taxpayer. They should also have a more favourable weighting towards being granted leave to stay in Ireland.

Degsy

andrew wrote: »

When you think about it, foreginers really can't win can they? Either they're taking our jobs, or sponging off us. Yup, sucks to be an immigrant.

Well if they dont like it here they can go home.
Nobody asked them to come here.

MIN2511

This is exactly what i am talking about!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055359151

Dinter

MIN2511 wrote: »

This is exactly what i am talking about!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055359151

Nah, that lad is just trying to be offensive because he's a lonely fool and wants the attention.

He could just as easily used some else.

SheroN

MIN2511 wrote: »

This is exactly what i am talking about!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055359151

Bit of a difference between trying to encourage debate on a topic and posting mindless rubbish!