Kilkenny v Waterford

CyberDave

Who is goin to win it? I still think the cats have too much...

run_Forrest_run

yes I still think the Cats will be too strong for the Deise but it's important that the Cats play their own game and do not allow Waterford into the game because if they do that Waterford have the scoring power and belief to take the title.

dreamer_ire

Biased view here but I think this could be the year for the Deise.... they have improved match on match and Dan Shanahan still hasn't played yet! I think our hunger may match the skill of the Cats, not sure any county has the skill to match the Cats so if they are to be beaten it has to be something else. Fingers crossed and if Sept 7th is an exciting as today it'll be one of the best finals in a few years.

Tristram

Kilkenny.

irish fighter

I think kilkenny will be to strong for waterford i do hope waterford can make a game of it but the cats will be up 10 points at the end

g5fd6ow0hseima

Hopefully Waterford will put their limbs on the line for this game, and i have a feeling they will. They wont be like Limerick last year, who went into the final already beaten

Keano

dreamer_ire wrote: »

Biased view here but I think this could be the year for the Deise.... they have improved match on match and Dan Shanahan still hasn't played yet! I think our hunger may match the skill of the Cats, not sure any county has the skill to match the Cats so if they are to be beaten it has to be something else. Fingers crossed and if Sept 7th is an exciting as today it'll be one of the best finals in a few years.

Dan the man needs to step up and put his mark on the biggest occasion. Yes he has been a huge player for Waterford but on Sept 7th his county will need him to give the performance of his life. He needs to hurl for 70 mins. If he does this I think Waterford wont be too far off the mark.

Pigletlover

I'd love to say Waterford, but I just can't see them beating Kilkenny. Waterford will want it more, but I think Kilkenny will be too strong for them. Every game this year we've been waiting for Dan the man to perform, hopefully this will be the game when he steps up to the mark.

Truck

Hard to see anything else but a kilkenny Win, but their has been alot of shocks this year.
Put your money on a Waterford wexford double

Silnoli

I think Kilkenny have it easily. The 2nd half was a cracker though

Deise-Girl..xx

think this could be waterfords year. A lot of people thought we would lose yesterday..the team is in top form and will be really fired up for the final..

baztard

My heart says Waterford.
My head says Kilkenny.

mousey007

waterford will need mullane,kelly,walsh and mcgrath to have near perfect games if they want to win and also hope that kilkenny have an off day...it is possible though

killbillvol2

baztard wrote: »

My heart says Waterford.
My head says Kilkenny.

+1

Pappy o' daniel

Waterford will have to improve to compete.

rm_2008

incase none of you have noticed,waterford are the last team to beat kilkenny in a vital game (league final 2007) and everyone wrote us off that day aswell. theres absolutely no need for apologies from this team if kilkenny do go on to win, these bunch of guys are my heroes and have given so much for their county in the last decade. UP THE DEISE!!

Daysha

In all fairness, Tipp beat Kilkenny in the League Semi final this year and thats pretty important too. But your right though, that league final back in 2007 will stand well to us come Sunday 7th

2Scoops

There's simply no way that Waterford will win: they haven't the hurlers in all positions. Tipp weren't great yesterday - very disappointing.

Podge2k7

Kilkenny are too good...

Daysha

2Scoops wrote: »

There's simply no way that Waterford will win: they haven't the hurlers in all positions. Tipp weren't great yesterday - very disappointing.

Ah do you not think you're being a tad harsh there? Tipp were far from dissappointing. Granted they didn't play as well as other matches earlier in the year but for the 2nd and 3rd quarter they controlled the game.

And stranger things have happened with regards to Waterford winning. Back in 2002 we went into a Munster final against the then All-Ireland champions Tipp as overwhelming underdogs. Then from the 50th minute onwards we completely hurled them off the park, won by 8 points and took our first Munster title since 1963. Tipp were a great team then and we were a FAR worse team back then then we are now.

At the moment, Waterford have the best full forward line in the country. Kelly, Mullane and Eoin McGrath have just been immense up there all season. We're weaker in the half forwards yeah, but thats because two of the 3 players there (Dan and Prendergast) have yet to play to their potential this year. Imagine if they hit form on Sunday the 7th! Along with Molumphy you've got one hell of a forward line.

Our half back line was top class yesterday, so Davy would be mad not to start with the same line up. Tony on the right, Moran on the left and Ken dominating in the middle. If Moran can play as well as he did yesterday then you've got another fantastic line with no weakness.

If Moran doesn't do as well, we could see Brick move deeper, a ploy that worked well in the 2nd half yesterday. He wasn't brilliant in the 1st half but he did see a lot more ball when he moved back towards our own 45" while Molumphy took up the midfield.

One reasurring aspect is that we can stop worrying about rotating keepers low on confidence, because Clinton has really made that position his own and go on to be one of the best keepers in the country. What would've happened if he didn't make that brilliant save yesterday?

I'm not going to deny that our full back line is a weakness, because it still is. However, yesterday was encouraging. I'm not D. Prendergasts greatest fan but he did well yesterday. Kearney wasn't brilliant, but thats simply down to a lack of match fitness.

Of course, Shefflin and co. will be a completely different proposition to our main weak link. But I still firmly believe that if our full forward and half back line continue to do so well, while maybe Dan or Prendergast to an extent rekindle their form, we've every reason to believe that we can cause a major shock 3 weeks on Sunday.

2Scoops

deise59 wrote: »

Ah do you not think you're being a tad harsh there?

On Waterford or Tipp?? Tipp didn't play nearly as well they have this year, so no harshness there. Waterford, though, do have some of the best hurlers in the country so I'm not suggesting that they're weak all over the field. But they're going to be in trouble in some spots, definitely, and there's no way around it.

That said, Kilkenny and Waterford in 2004 was a close enough game and the 1998 game was fantastic - one of the most under-rated matches ever. Waterford can certainly put it up to them and I'd say the match will have long competitive periods, but ultimately KK will run out convincing winners similar to the Cork match.

run_Forrest_run

deise59 wrote: »

At the moment, Waterford have the best full forward line in the country. Kelly, Mullane and Eoin McGrath have just been immense up there all season. We're weaker in the half forwards yeah, but thats because two of the 3 players there (Dan and Prendergast) have yet to play to their potential this year. Imagine if they hit form on Sunday the 7th! Along with Molumphy you've got one hell of a forward line.

You could apply that to many forward lines in the land, imagine if the KK forward lines were firing on all cylinders on the 7th? There's no point in trying to say what if this and what if that, the thing is it's very rare that all forwards are playing to the best of their ability at the same time, that is where the importance of depth on the panel comes into play..

yahoo_moe

team is in top form and will be really fired up for the final..

The Waterford team is not in top form - Kelly, Mullane, Browne and Eoin McGrath are, with Ken doing a great job for the team. But there are weaknesses there that everyone including Kilkenny should be able to identify.

Dan Shanahan still hasn't played yet...

Dan the man needs to step up and put his mark on the biggest occasion...

Every game this year we've been waiting for Dan the man to perform, hopefully this will be the game when he steps up to the mark...

maybe Dan or Prendergast to an extent rekindle their form...

Prendergast maybe (he's been alright this year, just not quite at the top of his game) but of all the hurlers in the country, Shanahan is a form player and right now, he doesn't have any. I don't know him so I don't want to judge him but I find it very hard to see a performance coming out of nowhere given his play so far this year.

If he was missing chances, that'd be one thing, but he doesn't even seem to be particularly involved a lot of the time and at the moment, he's not a good option to go to with a pass for any of the Waterford players further back as he's just not doing much. He certainly wouldn't be getting a game with Kilkenny this year on his form so far and I'm not sure that switching between Hickey, Delaney and Walsh is going to help him rediscover his form...

Deedsie

Tipp didnt/were not let play for large portions of the game sunday. Lost by two points after giving away a six point lead at the beginning of the game and our calls for a definite penalty for Larry Corbett in the first half were ignored not only by the ref but most analysts after the game.

If that was Waterfords best i dont think it will be enough for the Cats.

CyberDave

Deedsie wrote: »

Tipp didnt/were not let play for large portions of the game sunday. Lost by two points after giving away a six point lead at the beginning of the game and our calls for a definite penalty for Larry Corbett in the first half were ignored not only by the ref but most analysts after the game.

If that was Waterfords best i dont think it will be enough for the Cats.

Tipp had plenty of other chances of winning the game other than a penalty claim that nobody, only yourself noticed. Between the 10th and 56th minute Tipp outscored Waterford by 1-17 to 1-9, controlling the game. Tipp had plenty of chances to win this game when Webster missed his goal chance and Kelly oput the 65 wide when they needed it most. This wasn't Waterfords best, proof of this is Dan Shanahan and Seamus Prendergasts virtual anonymity thoughout.

silliegillie

I Dont say this to be mean to Waterford people But its Kilkennys. I would love to see waterford do it but Championship and league are a complete Different realm when your talking about Kilkenny. They are superior by far to every other County out there. so please waterford Dont take it personally. Cork Are the only team in recent years to Give Kilkenny any sort of a panic in championship and in the semi final against them kilkenny outclassed them. They have won all their games by a margin of over 10 points. Waterford on the other hand have won by a couple of points. If Dan and the boys perform their hearts out. Kilkenny will just up the gear. Its a Lost cause trying to beat them. It aint gonna happen in any championship Games for the next few years, all they play in Kilkenny is Hurling, thats it nothing else. By The way I hope I am proved wrong on this but I dont think so. And Waterford supports dont be annoyed or agro that no one is giving you a chance here. We all appreciate that you have an escellent team, and with the shenanigans over justin McCarthy and Davey Fitz taking over you have done proud and performed brilliantly, But realistically to be in with a shot of Kilkenny you need to be beating teams Like Wexford and TIpp by nearly Double Scores. (Im a Wexford man, I know the Baine of Kilkenny).

premierstone

silliegillie wrote: »

But realistically to be in with a shot of Kilkenny you need to be beating teams Like Wexford and TIpp by nearly Double Scores. (Im a Wexford man, I know the Baine of Kilkenny).

Seriously have you been watching any hurling this year at all, while we came up short on sunday and lost to the better team on the day, there is no team in the country (KK included) that would beat Tipp by double scores, thats just a ludicrous statement

Dunmoreroader

Waterford can match KK for intensity, lots of players have recovered form or are back from injuries. KK may not be as up for beating Waterford as they might have been for Tipp i.e. a traditional rival. Shanahan will do well to keep his place though..maybe Davy Fitz will pull a rabbit out of the hat and start Flynners whom I hear is flying in training! KK are formidable but it could be our time. The Cats are not invincible contrary to some opinions. Up the Deise!:cool:

run_Forrest_run

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

Waterford can match KK for intensity, lots of players have recovered form or are back from injuries. KK may not be as up for beating Waterford as they might have been for Tipp i.e. a traditional rival. Shanahan will do well to keep his place though..maybe Davy Fitz will pull a rabbit out of the hat and start Flynners whom I hear is flying in training! KK are formidable but it could be our time. The Cats are not invincible contrary to some opinions. Up the Deise!:cool:

I agree with you on the intensity point and on the Cats not being invincible but do you honestly think Flynn will be able to play a full 70 minutes in an All Ireland final? The lad is carrying too much weight (what's new I hear you ask?) and training is one thing, 70 minutes against the likes of Tommy Walsh, Hickey etc is a different story.

Also don't question the hunger of the Cats against Waterford over Tipp, it's a three-in-a-row attempt, they are hungry, no matter who they are playing.

The intensity will be fierce because both of these teams bring out the best in each other (at least I hope they do).

As one lad said to me at last years AI final, "Jaysus, Waterford would have given us a better game.." so lets hope they will...but up the Cats!

Sir Graball

run_Forrest_run wrote: »

I agree with you on the intensity point and on the Cats not being invincible but do you honestly think Flynn will be able to play a full 70 minutes in an All Ireland final? The lad is carrying too much weight (what's new I hear you ask?) and training is one thing, 70 minutes against the likes of Tommy Walsh, Hickey etc is a different story.

Also don't question the hunger of the Cats against Waterford over Tipp, it's a three-in-a-row attempt, they are hungry, no matter who they are playing.

The intensity will be fierce because both of these teams bring out the best in each other (at least I hope they do).

As one lad said to me at last years AI final, "Jaysus, Waterford would have given us a better game.." so lets hope they will...but up the Cats!

I'd have to concur with you. Cody will have them geared up no matter who they're playing. Waterford struggled to beat both Offaly and Wexford whom I felt left it after them. Tipp likewise had the game for the taking. Having said that finals can turn on the least thing and it's sometimes a bit of luck or a lesser known player who can turn it around on the day e.g Liam MaCarthy in '92 ( remember him? Brian Corcoran won't forget him in a hurry ) Aidan Fogarty in '06. I know it's a cliche but it all depends on the day and sometimes form goes out the window. Who fears to speak of '98? We in Kilkenny do! Good luck to Waterford. But more luck to the Black and Amber. We want to get 31 and go one over on Cork. Up the Cats!

Daysha

As much as I idolize Paul Flynn for what he's given to Waterford hurling the past 15 years, I simply could not fathom the thought of him starting the final. First of all, he hasn't played 70 minutes of hurling in over a year! Secondly, as good as he can still be from time to time, he hasn't reproduced his best form for a number of years now (despite being handy for the odd 21" free!)

And most importantly, who could he possibly replace. The current 6 forwards are untouchable for me tbh. Regardless of the form of Dan or Prendergast leading up to the match, they simply won't be dropped for this match. The ONLY way I can see Flynners sneaking in a starting place would be if Molumphy dropped back to midfield in replace of Nagle (which probably won't happen given his very good performance on Sunday)

The banter is already rife down in the South East already, and theres still 18 days to go! I can't imagine how mad it'll be a couple of weeks from now....

SantryRed

Kilkenny by at least 10.

silliegillie

premierstone wrote: »

Seriously have you been watching any hurling this year at all, while we came up short on sunday and lost to the better team on the day, there is no team in the country (KK included) that would beat Tipp by double scores, thats just a ludicrous statement

Kilkenny Would

Pigletlover

Deedsie wrote: »

our calls for a definite penalty for Larry Corbett in the first half were ignored not only by the ref but most analysts after the game.

I think there was no doubt that it was a penalty, maybe if he hadn't tried so hard to play the ball it would have been given, but that's sport.

premierstone

silliegillie wrote: »

Kilkenny Would

Not a chance, but i guess we wont find out this year

silliegillie

premierstone wrote: »

Not a chance, but i guess we wont find out this year

I did say in my original post that in order to beat Kilkenny other teams need to be winning by Double scores. But your right we wont find out this year.

Pappy o' daniel

KK will give you no time on the ball, maybe KK style will see other teams resort to first time ground hurling.

silliegillie

Pappy o' daniel wrote: »

KK will give you no time on the ball, maybe KK style will see other teams resort to first time ground hurling.

I was watching the leinster final from 97 recently (Yes it was nostalgia time wexford beat kilkenny in the leinaster final that year) For the first 2 mins of the game not one person lifted the ball. It was all ground hurling.I think you may have a point there ( no pun inteded) But yes it would be great to see teams going back and using ground hurling more. I was always taught that if you try to lift the ball and cant just whip it along the ground. That doesnt happen any more

Daysha

Believe it or not sillie, the amount of points a team wins by does not reflect on how good that team is.

Offaly beat Limerick by 10 or so points this year
Limerick beat Waterford by 5 points last year

Does that mean that Offaly should've destroyed Waterford in their qualifier last month? Of course not.

Some teams don't have a clinical edge to their game like Kilkenny do I admit, but there's just so much more to it than that.

rebs23

Please Waterford over the next few weeks;-
1. have a plan for kk. Don't go out ball headed 15 against 15 like Cork. Please don't be that stupid.
2. Get the training right. Have plenty of juice left in those legs for the day.
3. Keep it low key, let the media get all excited about the greatest team ever, going for a 3 in a row.
4. Tell the journalists up the road to pester Brian Cody and all of KK.
5. Tell the local media, hangers on, PR people and even your family to **** off and leave you alone for the next 3 weeks.
6. No ads, no personal appearances and no opening of supermarkets like I saw the Limerick players doing last year.
7. Best of luck!

CyberDave

silliegillie wrote: »

But yes it would be great to see teams going back and using ground hurling more. I was always taught that if you try to lift the ball and cant just whip it along the ground. That doesnt happen any more

Well Kilkenny are noted for their aerial prowess. Even Tommy Walsh and JJ Delaney who are not massive men but are very strong in the air. It would be interesting to see Waterford use the ground hurling/quick low ball tactic. It may be a way of unlocking the Kilkenny defence. Offaly of the nineties were specialists in this and accounted for Kilkenny more than once or twice in that period using it. Then again getting the space or time to decide which type of ball you are going to play into the forwards when you are up against Kilkenny is easier said than done. I am not saying Kilkenny are fit or unable to play at a high intensity, but the only way to beat them is to make the game high intensity, otherwise they will control the pace of the game like they did against Cork. Waterford proved in the first ten minutes against Tipp that they are capable of this high intensity hurling but maintaining it for the whole 70 minutes is another thing.

deise59 wrote: »

As much as I idolize Paul Flynn for what he's given to Waterford hurling the past 15 years, I simply could not fathom the thought of him starting the final. First of all, he hasn't played 70 minutes of hurling in over a year! Secondly, as good as he can still be from time to time, he hasn't reproduced his best form for a number of years now (despite being handy for the odd 21" free!)

It would be a real shame to see Flynn retire without a AI medal and it's a pity he isn't up to the pace. He must be 2/3 stone overweight. He always seemed to have that problem. If he could shed the weight, he would still be a valuable asset in the Waterford forward line. But he is not going to loose it in 2 weeks.

2Scoops

Ground hurling will not make a significant comeback. It's been phased out for a reason - a little too unpredictable. They only way to take on KK is to have the hurlers.

CyberDave wrote: »

It would be a real shame to see Flynn retire without a AI medal

Moreso for Ken McGrath who's getting long in the tooth himself.

CyberDave

2Scoops wrote: »

Ground hurling will not make a significant comeback. It's been phased out for a reason - a little too unpredictable. They only way to take on KK is to have the hurlers.

Moreso for Ken McGrath who's getting long in the tooth himself.

Well actually I was thinking if Waterford put out some of their football team they might take the cats and Tony Browne is probably older than both Flynn and McGrath.

silliegillie

deise59 wrote: »

Believe it or not sillie, the amount of points a team wins by does not reflect on how good that team is.

Offaly beat Limerick by 10 or so points this year
Limerick beat Waterford by 5 points last year

Does that mean that Offaly should've destroyed Waterford in their qualifier last month? Of course not.

Some teams don't have a clinical edge to their game like Kilkenny do I admit, but there's just so much more to it than that.

i Agree Im a wexford man, Dublin Beat us in Football By 23 points. we arein an all ireland semi final, they arent. You all missing the point. I said in order to beat Kilkenny you need to be beating other teams by double scores. Believe it or not Deise you do. Your not going any where near kilkenny and the proof will be the day after the all ireland final. By the way I hope Im wrong here< I would love to be proven wrong. Any other team in the country and I think you could do it, but not against the Cats. They are the Jedi of Hurling and Cody Is their Yoda.

Pappy o' daniel

silliegillie wrote: »

i Agree Im a wexford man, Dublin Beat us in Football By 23 points. we arein an all ireland semi final, they arent. You all missing the point. I said in order to beat Kilkenny you need to be beating other teams by double scores. Believe it or not Deise you do. Your not going any where near kilkenny and the proof will be the day after the all ireland final. By the way I hope Im wrong here< I would love to be proven wrong. Any other team in the country and I think you could do it, but not against the Cats. They are the Jedi of Hurling and Cody Is their Yoda.

I think KK sometimes use the Dark side of the force.


As for ground hurling , if other teams become as tight as KK it may become effective in some circumstances.

deisedevil

silliegillie wrote: »

i Agree Im a wexford man, Dublin Beat us in Football By 23 points. we arein an all ireland semi final, they arent. You all missing the point. I said in order to beat Kilkenny you need to be beating other teams by double scores. Believe it or not Deise you do. Your not going any where near kilkenny and the proof will be the day after the all ireland final. By the way I hope Im wrong here< I would love to be proven wrong. Any other team in the country and I think you could do it, but not against the Cats. They are the Jedi of Hurling and Cody Is their Yoda.

Waterford beat Kilkenny last year in the League final, did you think the same before that? Most people thought we wouldn't win then either.
But yes AI is a different story and it will be VERY difficult but it won't be impossible.
Waterford seem to be making constant improvements since the Clare game and we could be peaking at the right time (for once)
High intensity will be needed from first whistle. Cork lost to Kilkenny because they faded at the end of the first half and the end of the second half. Waterford need to stay within a few points of KK at half time and if we are still + or - a point or two with 10 minutes to go then we'll give them one hell of a run for it, the lads are battle hardened after the last two games and the hunger should be greater than that of KK. (problem with that though is KK are famous for the way they play in the last 10 mins of games and have they ever had a problem with hunger while Brian cody was in charge? Nope.)

yahoo_moe

deise59 wrote: »

As much as I idolize Paul Flynn for what he's given to Waterford hurling the past 15 years, I simply could not fathom the thought of him starting the final. First of all, he hasn't played 70 minutes of hurling in over a year! Secondly, as good as he can still be from time to time, he hasn't reproduced his best form for a number of years now (despite being handy for the odd 21" free!)

And most importantly, who could he possibly replace. The current 6 forwards are untouchable for me tbh. Regardless of the form of Dan or Prendergast leading up to the match, they simply won't be dropped for this match. The ONLY way I can see Flynners sneaking in a starting place would be if Molumphy dropped back to midfield in replace of Nagle (which probably won't happen given his very good performance on Sunday)

Sure I'm fairly handy from a 21-inch free myself

Agree though - don't see Flynn starting. Nagle's a big part of why Waterford beat Tipp - great performance - and deserves to play. As for the forwards, I think Prendergast's still contributing (couple of nice scores at good times against Offaly and Wexford) and I think Dan would maybe have been dropped in one of the qualifier games this year if Waterford had options... but evidently they don't and an AI final is not the time for a leap into the unknown.

silliegillie

KilKenny Championship Reuslt over the LAst Few Years

2006
Cill Chainnigh 1-23 An Iarmhí 1-09 (Cusack Park)
Kilkenny 1-23 Wexford 2-12
Kilkenny 2-22 Galway 3-14
Kilkenny 2-21 Clare 1-16
Cork 1-13 Kilkenny 1-16

2007
Offaly 1-13 Kilkenny 1-27
Wexford 1-12 Kilkenny 2-24
Kilkenny 3-22 Galway 1-18
Kilkenny 0-23 Wexford 1-10
Kilkenny 2-19 Limerick 1-15

And you know what happened in 2008.
Actually the only team to Beat Kilkenny In an All Ireland Champioship was Galway back in 2005

Thats some good Record

deisedevil

silliegillie wrote: »

KilKenny Championship Reuslt over the LAst Few Years

2006
Cill Chainnigh 1-23 An Iarmhí 1-09 (Cusack Park)
Kilkenny 1-23 Wexford 2-12
Kilkenny 2-22 Galway 3-14
Kilkenny 2-21 Clare 1-16
Cork 1-13 Kilkenny 1-16

2007
Offaly 1-13 Kilkenny 1-27
Wexford 1-12 Kilkenny 2-24
Kilkenny 3-22 Galway 1-18
Kilkenny 0-23 Wexford 1-10
Kilkenny 2-19 Limerick 1-15

And you know what happened in 2008.
Actually the only team to Beat Kilkenny In an All Ireland Champioship was Galway back in 2005

Thats some good Record

Yep, great record. Everyone thought Kilkenny would beat Galway that day aswell.
I can understand someone saying that they are very confident that a team won't win but it gets ridiculous when someone keeps arguing that they know 100% that a team will win, no one knows that. Unless your Bruce Grobellar.

silliegillie

I Know they will Win, Call me arrogant or Whatever you want but they will.

PS Just for the record, I hope that I am Proved wrong. I will be shouting on the Deise. It Would be great for Hurling and for the County to see them win.

cupthehand

With a manager like this its got to be Waterford

**Contains Mild Language**