Alfa Romeo 156 Drives for a few miles then cuts out

NedKelly

My Gf has a 2000 156
it drives for a few miles cuts out and then wont start if you wait a few mins it starts again and then you get a few more miles out of it
any ideas?

Seth Brundle

Sounds somewhat similar to something that affected my fathrs old Omega. The engine temp sensor (the one that goes to the ECU) went kaput and was flooding the engine causing it to cut out when it got warm.
You would really need a diagnosis done to clarify what exactly is going wrong though.

NedKelly

there is no engine management light on though ?

kinkstr

Is the car down on power at all? Or dows the engine just cut off after a few miles?

Seth Brundle

There wasn't a light lit on my fathers car (not saying that this is your issue). As far as his was concerned, the sensor wasn't out, hence no light.
Wait and see what others suggest.

NedKelly

No when its going its perfect!
just cuts out engine turns over but does not kick in
i thought maybe fuel filer , fuel pump ?

Blue850

We had a Corsa do something similar, wouldn't restart after journeys until car cooled down, coolant temprature sensor was gone haywire, engine management light never came on.

Bluefoam

Sounds like it could be something as simple as a lambada sensor. try www.alfaowner.com

johndnn99

my sister had a similar problem turned out to be dirty fuel lines i think. such a nice looking car pity you cant get it with a jap engine

Anan1

NedKelly wrote: »

No when its going its perfect!
just cuts out engine turns over but does not kick in
i thought maybe fuel filer , fuel pump ?

I had a similar problem lately with a Porsche 911, didn't cut out but used to lose power intermittently. Turned out (after a lot of messing) to be the fuel pump, replaced it and the car has run fine since.

Anan1

johndnn99 wrote: »

my sister had a similar problem turned out to be dirty fuel lines i think. such a nice looking car pity you cant get it with a jap engine

Never driven one, have you?

Seperate

Had a similar problem with an Audi cabrio, it was the fuel filter. Sounds exactly the same too - went fine for a mile or two, then just cut out.

johndnn99

Anan1 wrote: »

Never driven one, have you?

i tried it out a few times. went like a rocket but cost her a lot of money to keep it on the road

ARGINITE

What temp will the engine get to before it cuts out?

Bluefoam wrote:

Sounds like it could be something as simple as a lambada sensor

If it is one of the lambda sensors, it will cause problems after 70c as their is a temp sensor on the top of the engine that is used until the engine reaches full temperature. You can check to see if its one of the lambda sensors by disconnecting them and then running the car as normal.

NedKelly

how do i disconnect the lamda sensor ? its the 1.8 engine?
where is it located
i dont think its the fuel filter as it would be jerky when dribing

S.I.R

had this problem with my 9000, leave her thickign oer for minutes and she cuts out, straight away, the oul lad took her for a spin upto dalky and she made it half way before pulling over,


coolant was blocked, completely stripped and cleaned the hole systhem and it work perfect, an omega engine in it afaik ( one of the many cars to use it )

ARGINITE

Their is a 4 pin black connector for it on the driver side of the bulkhead.
Just to let you know it will cause rubbish MPG and if used for to long this way can screw your cat up.

NedKelly

and just unplug it ?
ps thanks for the help

ARGINITE

Unplug it while the car is off.
Then start the car and let it warm up and see what happens.

Is their any backfiring from the car when warm?

mcwhirter

NedKelly wrote: »

My Gf has a 2000 156
it drives for a few miles cuts out and then wont start if you wait a few mins it starts again and then you get a few more miles out of it
any ideas?

Could be a faulty immobiliser. My renault did that, I got the immobiliser disconnected as a new one cost a fortune.

NedKelly

I dont think its the immobiliser as you can do 4-5 miles
i will check the lamda sensor tomorrow
and see thanks lads

NedKelly

No doesnt backfire
just cuts out !

miju

Basically its your crank sensor as it comes up to the correct temp. It's a pretty common fault on 156 engines and this sensor is usually the culprit. Cost is about the €75 IIRC.

It's housed near the back of the starter motor but if your not sure what your doing bring it to a garage.

Nonoperational

Yep typical crank sensor failure.

NedKelly

How are you so sure its the crank sensor?
someone else is positive its the lamda sensor
surly if the crank sensor was faulty the timing would be out and the engine management light would come on ?

Nonoperational

NedKelly wrote: »

How are you so sure its the crank sensor?
someone else is positive its the lamda sensor
surly if the crank sensor was faulty the timing would be out and the engine management light would come on ?

Not sure if the crank sensor causes the engine light to come on, dont think it does when its failing intermittantly. When the sensor cools the resistance is altered so it works again. Fiddley job bit the part is only around 40 quid. Alfa garage should fit it in half an hour or so. I don't think a faulty lambda would cause it to cut out. If you have a look at alfaowner.com its been talked about at length. Almost every single case of alfas cutting out when up to temperature and not starting until they cool have been crank sensors!

Seth Brundle

I think before the OP goes out and buys several sensors on the basis of what has been mentioned in this thread, a proper diagnosis should be done on the car! It amy well be the crank sensor but no point going on a wild goosechase!

miju

NedKelly wrote: »

How are you so sure its the crank sensor?
someone else is positive its the lamda sensor
surly if the crank sensor was faulty the timing would be out and the engine management light would come on ?

If it was a faulty lamba your engine light would defo be coming on and you'd be experiencing some rough idling to boot.

Reason I'm so sure (though obviously I'm not standing in front of it) is that this is a VERY , very typical and VERY well documented Alfa engine fault going by your description and the cause of this fault is the crank / RPM / TDI sensor (has a couple of names but does the same thing).

kbannon wrote: »

I think before the OP goes out and buys several sensors on the basis of what has been mentioned in this thread, a proper diagnosis should be done on the car! It amy well be the crank sensor but no point going on a wild goosechase!

100% agree which is why I said in my first post

miju wrote: »

....if your not sure what your doing bring it to a garage.

Nonoperational

Its awkward enough to change anyway. Best suggestion is to take it to the garage and suggest you think its the crank sensor.

Darragh29

NedKelly wrote: »

My Gf has a 2000 156
it drives for a few miles cuts out and then wont start if you wait a few mins it starts again and then you get a few more miles out of it
any ideas?

I had the same make & model in for the same/similar problem. It turned out to be the accelerator position sensor and also the throttle position sensor. Car would go for a few miles, then go into "limp home" mode...

Darragh29

kbannon wrote: »

I think before the OP goes out and buys several sensors on the basis of what has been mentioned in this thread, a proper diagnosis should be done on the car! It amy well be the crank sensor but no point going on a wild goosechase!

+1, I could pull DTC's that indicated what the problem was in my case...

NedKelly

got the car diagnosed today by a mate
and suprise suprise there was no faults showing on the computer ???
he told me that the lamda sensor was on the bottom of the manifold
not on the RHS of the bulhead

Darragh29

NedKelly wrote: »

got the car diagnosed today by a mate
and suprise suprise there was no faults showing on the computer ???
he told me that the lamda sensor was on the bottom of the manifold
not on the RHS of the bulhead

Do you know what diagnostic's equipment he was using??? Just be careful... If there is a problem, as there clearly is, you should have some fault code or idea what the problem is, even if it is a multi cylinder misfire which doesn't point to a particular sensor or device and requires further investigation, if your man is telling you he has no idea what the problem is, that doesn't sound good...

miju

NedKelly wrote: »

got the car diagnosed today by a mate
and suprise suprise there was no faults showing on the computer ???

if your mate can't find a fault (and providing he's adept at fault finding) then your best bet is to give Gerry in TI Autos a call. This guy knows Alfas inside out and has a very good reputation for a reason.

still say it's the crank sensor though

Darragh29

miju wrote: »

if your mate can't find a fault (and providing he's adept at fault finding) then your best bet is to give Gerry in TI Autos a call. This guy knows Alfas inside out and has a very good reputation for a reason.

still say it's the crank sensor though

A score says its the accelerator position sensor OR the throttle potentiometer thats the problem. This post sounds familar to me! Starting up no probs and cuutting out 2-3 k up the road...

unkel

OP, whenever this is sorted, please make sure you get back here and tell us what is was - and announce a winner contributor here if there is one

Darragh29

unkel wrote: »

OP, whenever this is sorted, please make sure you get back here and tell us what is was - and announce a winner contributor here if there is one

It could be anything but I'm going on a gut feeling here:

Accelerator position sensor,

OR

Throttle potentiometer...

Only cos have been here with that symptom on an Alfa 156. Might be wrong, might be right, but as per unkel, please let us know when/if you have a line drawn under the problem...

Mr.Diagnostic

NedKelly wrote: »

got the car diagnosed today by a mate
and suprise suprise there was no faults showing on the computer ???
he told me that the lamda sensor was on the bottom of the manifold
not on the RHS of the bulhead

This is possibly a bit on the pedantic side but I think its worth mentioning. Your mate didn’t diagnose it. From what you said it sounds like he just did a code read. There is a lot more than that involved in a diagnosis.

The symptoms you posted are stereotypical crank sensor failure. My guess would be crank sensor too.

As regards fault codes. On a lot of engine management systems a faulty crank sensor will not cause a code.

rebel.ranter

Can a crank angle sensor fault be intermittent like that? I would have thought that a faulty crank angle sensor would also cause intermittent starting problems too.

Bluefoam

I really think the car should be brought to a reputable mechanic, it is quite clear that the OP doesn't know how to fix the problem & doesn't have the range of skills to find the cause. This is why there are trained people out there.

Nonoperational

I still say its the crank sensor. Doesn't cause a fault when its failing intermittantly when hot. Doesn't cause a code to be recorded most of the time... just take it to any alfa garage.

NedKelly

Bluefoam wrote: »

I really think the car should be brought to a reputable mechanic, it is quite clear that the OP doesn't know how to fix the problem & doesn't have the range of skills to find the cause. This is why there are trained people out there.

EHH i was only asking for advice...
if it was something as simple as a sensor i can install it myself
its not difficult im only trying to find out if anyone could help me with
diagnosing the problem

Nonoperational

You can check the resistence along the crank sensor and that should give you a good idea. Ill try dig up where I saw it and post a link.

edit: have a look here: http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-147-156-and-gt/115244-crank-sensor.html

Darragh29

gpf101 wrote: »

You can check the resistence along the crank sensor and that should give you a good idea. Ill try dig up where I saw it and post a link.

edit: have a look here: http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-147-156-and-gt/115244-crank-sensor.html

Jasus... Just get it properly diagnosed, end of problem. Folks here can speculate but nobody is going to get it absolutely right without the proper equipment and knowledge.. My advice above is just based on experience of a similar sounding problem on the same vehicle. Bite the bullet and get it diagnosed!

rebel.ranter

Darragh29 wrote: »

Bite the bullet and get it diagnosed!

I agree.
I think (or I assume) that most people on here should pursue a dual course of action using this forum as a sounding board to try understand what to expect from the diagnosing mechanic. That's the theory anyway.

Otherwise we are as bad as the guy using ROAD maps to navigate his way around the coast of UK!! (In a boat!)

Nonoperational

Darragh29 wrote: »

Jasus... Just get it properly diagnosed, end of problem. Folks here can speculate but nobody is going to get it absolutely right without the proper equipment and knowledge.. My advice above is just based on experience of a similar sounding problem on the same vehicle. Bite the bullet and get it diagnosed!

The guy obviously wanted a crack at it himself, at least he'll have a few ideas now before going into the mechanic clueless...

alias no.9

Darragh29 wrote: »

A score says its the accelerator position sensor OR the throttle potentiometer thats the problem.

I'll take that bet. I don't know what it is but I'm pretty certain you're wrong .

edit... I'm basing my claim on information from posts by the OP, can any of the anoraks out there figure it out?

Nonoperational

I'd nearly take it aswell I'm so sure its the crank sensor! Could be wrong though so I'll shut up and not post any more no this thread at the risk of sounding like a (potentially very wrong) broken record!

Darragh29

gpf101 wrote: »

The guy obviously wanted a crack at it himself, at least he'll have a few ideas now before going into the mechanic clueless...

Believe me there is nothing worse than the customer who comes in talking sh*te about something he read somewhere!!! This is obviously not directed at the OP, but my view on this is that if he knows what the problem is, he can fix it himself, alternatively pass the problem to a professional and trust them to resolve it. That is afterall what your paying for! Filling his head full of baseless info and pure speculation is only going to give the person who ultimately resolves his problem an even bigger headache! Just talkin from experience! :o:o

Nonoperational

Darragh29 wrote: »

Believe me there is nothing worse than the customer who comes in talking sh*te about something he read somewhere!!! This is obviously not directed at the OP, but my view on this is that if he knows what the problem is, he can fix it himself, alternatively pass the problem to a professional and trust them to resolve it. That is afterall what your paying for! Filling his head full of baseless info and pure speculation is only going to give the person who ultimately resolves his problem an even bigger headache! Just talkin from experience! :o:o

I actually find it quite useful if someone has an eductated idea on what the problem might be. Especially on cars like the 156 which are not that common and some people wouldnt be very familiar with them if they didnt work on a lot of them. As for baseless info... well the amount of throttle position sensor failures vs the amount of crank sensor failures tells its own story. Crank sensor is quite a common problem and almost always presents in the EXACT was the OP described while throttle position sensor is quite rare and rarely presents in the way the OP describes!

I see where your coming from but he asked for any ideas in the first place! Its a motors forum, no point in replying with no ideas! He can take them or leave them just my ideas. As I said could be totally off the mark!

Darragh29

gpf101 wrote: »

I actually find it quite useful if someone has an eductated idea on what the problem might be. Especially on cars like the 156 which are not that common and some people wouldnt be very familiar with them if they didnt work on a lot of them. As for baseless info... well the amount of throttle position sensor failures vs the amount of crank sensor failures tells its own story. Crank sensor is quite a common problem and almost always presents in the EXACT was the OP described while throttle position sensor is quite rare and rarely presents in the way the OP describes!

I hope you don't approach customers cars with that statistical approach! What the OP described to me was a verbatim replica complaint that I've handled recently and no amount of crank position sensors would have resolved the issue! Any information here is baseless (mine included!), because it is speculation not based on any fact or understanding of the problem, only a casual explanation of the symptom...

There is nothing worse than trying to do a good job for a customer and them coming back at you with, "are you sure that's the actual problem, because so and so said it was most likely to be comething completely different???" And you can see it in their face that they are now thinking that you are trying to rip them off, because what you are telling them cannot be reconciled by some remark that someone else has made on the problem... Very very very frustrating...