Who am I tipping?

lugha

Apologies to mods if this thread is misplaced. Move as required.

Well the question is in the title. I understand that some restaurant managers simply trousers the tips left for waiters / waitresses. It this so and is it legal?

Usually I leave a tip more as a supplement to what I imagine is a meager enough income for a tough job rather that as a reflection of the quality of service (unless it is really horrible in which case I leave squat). But if I knew managers were pocketing it then I'd leave little or nothing. Can you demand to know what an establishment's tip policy is?

mikemac

First of all, if the service is horrible you walk out without paying or at least get a hefty discount. Management would prefer you do this then complain to your friends. Give them a chance to sort the problems and you get money off the bill, everyone wins.

For sure tips get pocketed by management. I've been swindled out of hundreds in my time but that was a porter and not as a waiter. The tips went to the "Christmas party" that strangly never happened. And yes, that money was mine as it was a contract rate for loading bags on a tour bus after my shift was over. I'm still bitter

If you want to give a tip, leave the money on the table or give it directly to your serving staff in cash. Do not write it on a credit card slip or give to the manager when you are leaving.

I notice you are worried if the service staff don't get their tips. Being a kitchen porter is one hundred times harder and without them you'd be getting nothing. They earn minimum wage, waiting staff are up around 10 euro per hour
Ah well, that's the way it works

charlesD

I am sure it depends on where you live, but in the states at a sit down restaurant, the waiters get paid next to nothing by the restaurant.

They just raised it a little bit, but I think it is still less than $3.00 and hour, so a waiter relies on their tips to make money.

I waited tables for some time and almost never got an actual paycheck, because it all went to taxes. Instead the only money most waiters get is from tips. Of their tip money, they are usually required to tip out the bus boys, the bar, and in some cases a food runner. The amount you tip out is based off of your sales.

Some people here in the states are very bad about tipping, because they do not understand that a waiter is not working for a paycheck, but instead are working for tips. There are definitely some flaws in the system, but that is basically how it works here.

foggy_lad

Surely if something like a meal for two with wine etc costs ?200 you should not be expected to give the people doing their jobs which they get paid for even more money? Most waiters in ireland are relatively well paid so i would not give any a tip but then i also would not give anything to beggars on the street either!

Big_Mac

micmclo wrote: »

If you want to give a tip, leave the money on the table or give it directly to your serving staff in cash. Do not write it on a credit card slip or give to the manager when you are leaving.

+1 If you want to tip the waiter or waitress, then make a point of paying them directly for the meal. Don't use the Gratuity section on the CC slip, cos for 1 they won't get it, and technically they would also have to pay tax on it. Cash is always better.

foggy_lad wrote: »

Surely if something like a meal for two with wine etc costs ?200 you should not be expected to give the people doing their jobs which they get paid for even more money? Most waiters in ireland are relatively well paid so i would not give any a tip but then i also would not give anything to beggars on the street either!

True, but if I think the waitress or waiter was fantastic, as in a knowledgable, efficent, polite and courteous and not a Thicko, then I would have absolutely no trouble whatsoever in tipping. Money well spent if you ask me, regardless of the actual bill. Then again, if the service is crap, you can forget about the tip. Completely.

lugha

foggy_lad wrote: »

Surely if something like a meal for two with wine etc costs ?200 you should not be expected to give the people doing their jobs which they get paid for even more money? Most waiters in ireland are relatively well paid so i would not give any a tip but then i also would not give anything to beggars on the street either!

200 big ones for a nosh up? Well, I guess you’re a classier guy that me!
In truth I was more thinking about the lower end of the scale, cafes, pub grub etc. where I’d go a fair bit for my eats. And I always assumed the workers in such places were on minimum wage or perhaps a little above it.
Usually I leave something on the table or tell them to keep the change when I pay (I’m not so comfortable with direct tipping, it seems a bit condescending! Its only a short hop from that to patting them on the head and telling them that they are great little boys or girls! But I digress) I do have a vague recollection of someone once telling me that all tips in a place she worked regardless of how they were imparted were expected to be handed over to management. It was the legality of this that I was curious about? I understand some places pool tips and share them with kitchen staff which is fair enough. But management making of with them sounds a tad scam like to me.

Climate Expert

Usually I leave a tip more as a supplement to what I imagine is a meager enough income for a tough job rather that as a reflection of the quality of service

Do you give money to the man stacking the shelves in your supermarket?
Or send on money to the person who answered you in a call centre?

FX Meister

no, because thats not the custom. Thats a pretty dumb response. Fact

Climate Expert wrote: »

Do you give money to the man stacking the shelves in your supermarket?
Or send on money to the person who answered you in a call centre?

axer

I hate when people tip those in restaurants etc unless they were provided with a service that was not expected and was wanted. It is because of those idiots that sometimes people expect you to tip. Custom my ass - not custom in Ireland.

Either tip everyone that is on the minimum wage providing you with a service or no one at all (unless they provide a service that was not expected and was wanted). Equality anyone?

We have the minimum wage in this country. I can understand tipping in other countries that do not have the minimum wage.

craichoe

Holland, Belgium and Germany its not customary to tip.

Tips that are handed in either go into a divided pot or the individual keeps it themselves.

axer

craichoe wrote: »

Holland, Belgium and Germany its not customary to tip.

and it is not in Ireland either (except for a few idiots).

foggy_lad

lugha wrote: »

200 big ones for a nosh up? Well, I guess you’re a classier guy that me!
In truth I was more thinking about the lower end of the scale, cafes, pub grub etc. where I’d go a fair bit for my eats. And I always assumed the workers in such places were on minimum wage or perhaps a little above it.
Usually I leave something on the table or tell them to keep the change when I pay (I’m not so comfortable with direct tipping, it seems a bit condescending! Its only a short hop from that to patting them on the head and telling them that they are great little boys or girls! But I digress) I do have a vague recollection of someone once telling me that all tips in a place she worked regardless of how they were imparted were expected to be handed over to management. It was the legality of this that I was curious about? I understand some places pool tips and share them with kitchen staff which is fair enough. But management making of with them sounds a tad scam like to me.

there is nothing wrong with minimum wage i was on less than that for a number of years and lived relatively comfortably without tips from anyone! if someone does a job they get paid and if they feel that is not enough they should seek other higher paid employment or be considered too lazy.

lugha

axer wrote: »

and it is not in Ireland either (except for a few idiots).

True there is not a custom whereby all people are expected to tip always but there certainly is a custom of sort in Ireland.

My experience when out with different groups in different places is that most people do tip.
But then I guess us idiots were always a majority

axer

lugha wrote: »

True there is not a custom whereby all people are expected to tip always but there certainly is a custom of sort in Ireland.

My experience when out with different groups in different places is that most people do tip.
But then I guess us idiots were always a majority

Some people have too much money - they are the ones then to complain about the prices of items in restaurants, shops and other places.

raido9

NICE GUY EDDIE: Okay, everybody cough up green for the little lady.

NICE GUY EDDIE: C'mon, throw in a buck.

MR. PINK: Uh-uh. I don't tip.

NICE GUY EDDIE: Whaddaya mean you don't tip?

MR. PINK: I don't believe in it.

NICE GUY EDDIE: You don't believe in tipping?

MR. WHITE: I love this kid, he's a madman, this guy.

MR. BLONDE: Do you have any idea what these ladies make? They make ****.

MR. PINK: Don't give me that. She don't make enough money, she can quit.

NICE GUY EDDIE: I don't even know a Jew who'd have the balls to say
that. So let's get this straight. You never ever tip?

MR. PINK: I don't tip because society says I gotta. I tip when
somebody deserves a tip. When somebody really puts forth an effort,
they deserve a little something extra. But this tipping automatically,
that ****'s for the birds. As far as I'm concerned, they're just doin
their job.

MR. BLUE: Our girl was nice.

MR. PINK: Our girl was okay. She didn't do anything special.

MR. BLONDE: What's something special, take ya in the kitchen and suck your dick?

NICE GUY EDDIE: I'd go over twelve percent for that.

MR. PINK: Look, I ordered coffee. Now we've been here a long ****in
time, and she's only filled my cup three times. When I order coffee, I
want it filled six times.

MR. BLONDE: What if she's too busy?

MR. PINK: The words "too busy" shouldn't be in a waitress's vocabulary.

NICE GUY EDDIE: Excuse me, Mr. White, but the last thing you need is
another cup of coffee.

MR. PINK: These ladies aren't starvin to death. They make minimum
wage. When I worked for minimum wage, I wasn't lucky enough to have a
job that society deemed tipworthy.

NICE GUY EDDIE: Ahh, now we're getting down to it. It's not just that
he's a cheap bastard--

MR. ORANGE: --It is that too--

NICE GUY EDDIE: --It is that too. But it's also he couldn't get a
waiter job. You talk like a pissed off dishwasher: "**** those *****
and their ****ing tips."

MR. BLONDE: So you don't care that they're counting on your tip to live?

MR. PINK: Do you know what this is? It's the world's smallest violin,
playing just for the waitresses.

Classic

FX Meister

axer wrote: »

and it is not in Ireland either (except for a few idiots).

It is, you just dont think so.

axer

FX Meister wrote: »

It is, you just dont think so.

Others would disagree with you. The only reason it was around in the last few years is people had too much money and not enough sense.

mik_da_man

I dont think it's custom to tip here at all.
I will tip if I get good service, even half decent service.
But too many times people expect tips for nothing or for crap service.
If I got crap service I'd not tip and complain.
I was out for a meal with my brother a few weeks ago and the service was terrible the
wiatress had left us waiting for ages and only brought some of our food - cooked wrong.
I had decided not to tip but not make an issue of it. (her service)

Anyway when I went to pay the bill the guy at the till asked how much was I going to tip.
Not if, but How much!!
When I said nothing he shot me a dirty look, I then proceeded to explain why I was not going to tip and asked to see the manager.
The manager was helpful and knocked the price of the mains off our bill.
I'd say the till guy got a right roasting after we left

craichoe

axer wrote: »

Others would disagree with you. The only reason it was around in the last few years is people had too much money and not enough sense.

Oh Wikipedia .. what a fountain of fact ..

My arse

axer

craichoe wrote: »

Oh Wikipedia .. what a fountain of fact ..

My arse

Who said it was fact because it was on wikipedia? I said others would disagree with you like I do.

You think it is customary just because you think so doesn't mean it actually is. What makes you think it is?

Toto Wolfcastle

It's not customary to tip in Ireland, but a hell of a lot of people do. When I worked in a restaurant on below minimum wage the tips were much needed. They all got put into a pot and were divided between whoever worked that night.

A guy who still works there recently found out that the two owners (husband and wife), who are absolutely loaded, take a portion of the tips. One of them works in the kitchen, and the wife doesn't work there at all as she has another restaurant.

I used to think the best thing is to hand the tip straight to the waiter but because a lot of places put the tips into a shared pot it doesn't make a difference.

I'd agree with not putting the tip on the credit card. The same restaurant recently stopped giving that money to the staff as tips.

In answer to the OP's question, if you want to know, you should definitely ask where the tips go. It is your money after all.

FX Meister

axer wrote: »

Others would disagree with you. The only reason it was around in the last few years is people had too much money and not enough sense.

According to wikipedia I'm a pretty famous pro wrestler in America. That's not true either

axer

FX Meister wrote: »

According to wikipedia I'm a pretty famous pro wrestler in America. That's not true either

which of course means everything is not true on wikipedia! Well done!

The_Conductor

Personally I'll only ever tip in a restraunt if the service is very good- if its not good or if the food or wine is poor- I will complain. The stares from other customers when you complain is bizarre- I don't get it? If something isn't up to scratch- complain, we seem to have a tradition of putting up and shutting up. I've also been known to scream abuse at French waiters in Paris (in French or Russian, as appropriate), just because I'm a tourist doesn't mean I should be treated like crap.

Climate Expert

FX Meister wrote: »

no, because thats not the custom. Thats a pretty dumb response. Fact

Dumb response? Read what I have quoted. She wants to support low paid workers so my respsonse was percfectly valid.

You've got the collection of dumb responses on this thread FACT

Tabitharose

I temped in the admin dept of a hotel in the city centre a good few years ago now & while I was there the custom was that ALL tips were collected & divided equally between ALL hotel staff (including those in the admin dept)...

lugha

If I might clarify, I certainly do not tip if service is bad (I did say really horrible but I guess I have a low threshold for horrible). If service is needlessly slow or if the servers have an unpleasant demeanour about them then I do not tip, low pay or no. But I rarely encounter such bad service. So in practice I almost always tip.

I am curious about the argument made above that it is not custom to tip but many people do it. Er, isn't that pretty much what it means to say something is customary?
As far as its prevalence goes perhaps somebody who works in this area might quantify what proportion of people do leave tips.

Anyway ……………………….. Many of the posts here are most interesting but it doesn't answer my original question.
Whether you tip or do not or approve of tipping or do not approve, my question asked if it was legal for managers to pocket tips. Anybody?

MOH

axer wrote: »

Others would disagree with you. The only reason it was around in the last few years is people had too much money and not enough sense.

Huh? Aren't you arguing that it's not customary to tip?
Whereas that link begins with:

In the Republic of Ireland, tipping has been established as a custom since the early sixties...

Red Alert

I don't tip (apart from rounding up the bill, i'm not too pushed for 20 cent) unless there's been a standard of service that warrants it. I give a nice tip when there is, but otherwise nothing. I always give it personally to them and say 'keep that yourself'.

axer

MOH wrote: »

Huh? Aren't you arguing that it's not customary to tip?
Whereas that link begins with:

Someone went in and changed it the other day.
Wonder who that was...:rolleyes:

I've also been known to scream abuse at French waiters in Paris (in French or Russian, as appropriate), just because I'm a tourist doesn't mean I should be treated like crap.

And waiters do not deserved to be screamed at and abused. If you have a problem you should take it to the manager, not abuse the waiting staff just because you can, and they can't shout back. If I were you, I'd be worried about all the 'extras' that might have been added to my meal by one of those waiters. Sometimes waiters are incompetent but a lot of the time the problem is with the cooks and other kitchen staff. I remember getting stiffed a good few times in the US because the main was taking too long - what on earth can I do about it other than say it to the chef and let the customer know I was checking on it and would bring it out right away? Sometimes it wasn't even anybody's fault and the dish just took a while to make. It was so frustrating to be friendly and get the drinks quickly, refill the water glasses, check on the table and then get no tip because the cook took a little too long to make the food.

Stepherunie

When I worked in the states, tips were divided in our place according to how many hours you worked, which was fine until I realised that quite a number of staff were dipping into said tips and if they got bigger tips they would pocket it for themselves.

I came to the conclusion though that many people tipped, not because of the service, but as they hated carrying change. 7/10 when you gave people back change it went into the tip jar.


To be fair to the bosses though, they never dipped into it, and if they were handed a tip it would go into the pot, which they didn't take from.

cast_iron

axer wrote: »

Someone went in and changed it the other day.
Wonder who that was...:rolleyes:

Well whoever changed it, that's a pretty accurate description of the Irish tipping situation. Personally, I've never been in a restaurant with anyone who didn't tip at all.

Shelflife

My arguement with tipping is this, taking the low paid arguement then why dont people tip shop staff.
just because someone does their job properly shouldnt mean that we should be expected to add on another 10% on to the bill.

i personally think its a practise that snuck in from america.

if you take an average server waiting on say 10 tables with the average table bill being €100 then tips on average per night would be €100. which would be 500 per week tax free on top of their wage.

MOH

axer wrote: »

Someone went in and changed it the other day.
Wonder who that was...:rolleyes:

Heh, wasn't me, though oddly it had crossed my mind before I even read the link that someone could update it.

MrVestek

axer wrote: »

and it is not in Ireland either (except for a few idiots).

+1

Colonel Sanders

I've never been given a valid reason to tip in irish restaurants. I've had the following:

1. "Waiters etc earn earn crap money" (so do a lot of shop staff in the likes of spar etc, they don't tip them)
2. "You get personalised service" (a travel agent or insurance broker also gives you personalised service but they aren't tipped). Also i lived with a girl who worked in a cafe and said that 40% of all tips went to the others who didn't wait tables, hence you're tipping these people who haven't given you said personalised service.
3. "Everyone tips". WTF? If everyone jumped over a cliff would you do the same?

I remember being called stingy in one place coz I didn't leave a tip. i was out with the same person (work colleague) about 2 weeks before this and ate in a pub. We sat down, ordered and were served food the same as in any restaurant but paid at the till in the bar. No tips were left and no one felt guilty. Whats the difference? They got the same service they got in a restaurant yet didn't tip because the bill wasn't handed to them at the table.

I've forgotten a few others which i can't think of

Shelflife

youve hit the nail on the head there colonel saunders, i couldnt have put it better myself.

poolfan

always give the tip to the person serving you, or one one of the waiting staff. not management. where i work some people sign the bill to the room and also tip is signed to the room also, these tips go to a management account where some of it is divided up amongst employees and the rest is put aside for stuff like dishwashers and mangers having meals with clients. so we never see all of these tip. cash is always the safer option

Slice

If you're concerned about who your tip goes to you can always ask the waiter serving you if they receive the tip directly - I've done this lots of times before.

Generally speaking I would never pay a service charge unless it's stated on the menu beforehand. If it's added on at time of payment then I would choose to tip instead. This is also because a service charge liable to VAT. I would usually also ask the manager if a service charge stated on a menu goes to the staff and what portion. I wouldn't pay a gratuity / service charge by any other means other than in cash.

dudara

I never leave a tip by credit card. it's cash or nothing. I just don't trust thats tips left by credit card actually get to the staff.

Raiser

Climate Expert wrote: »

Do you give money to the man stacking the shelves in your supermarket?
Or send on money to the person who answered you in a call centre?

I tip a small bit 'cause I can afford to, I get well looked after as a regular and because I too have worked low paying jobs in the past.

- I pointedly don't tip ignorant staff or crap service ie. where its obvious the person themselves isn't arsed.

So what are you saving for - another Yacht, a gold-plated, ivory inlaid back-scratcher for that unused shelf in your weekend Jaguar ?

axer

Raiser wrote: »

I tip a small bit 'cause I can afford to, I get well looked after as a regular and because I too have worked low paying jobs in the past.

- I pointedly don't tip ignorant staff or crap service ie. where its obvious the person themselves isn't arsed.

So what are you saving for - another Yacht, a gold-plated, ivory inlaid back-scratcher for that unused shelf in your weekend Jaguar ?

Why not give that money to charity instead?

Raiser

axer wrote: »

Why not give that money to charity instead?

Who are you to assess this in accordance with your own odd, flawed criteria, then pass poor judgement and subsequently earmark portions of my personal finances for certain targets in keeping with your own stilted sense of justice?

- If some hard-working person works 9.5 hrs carrying, fetching, explaining, TOLERATING, restraining the urge to punch and generally suffering the public at large in order to make ends meet in some sweltering restaurant full of pretentious Axers who are devoid of any feeling of reciprocal decency while they study or perhaps simply strive to put food on the table for their kids or whatever - yeah, I'm happy to leave them an appropriate tip. Sorry, if you still don't get it I'm not going to give you this time again......

P.S. Are you confusing Charities with Restaurants/Waiting Staff? Or are they both just foremost in your mind generally as financial liabilities that might only serve to delay the delivery of your 5 series?

axer

Raiser wrote: »

Who are you to assess this in accordance with your own odd, flawed criteria, then pass poor judgement and subsequently earmark portions of my personal finances for certain targets in keeping with your own stilted sense of justice?

ah...hm...where am I passing judgement...or...ahhm...earmarking any of your money? I merely asked a question.

Raiser wrote: »

- If some hard-working person works 9.5 hrs carrying, fetching, explaining, TOLERATING, restraining the urge to punch and generally suffering the public at large in order to make ends meet in some sweltering restaurant full of pretentious Axers who are devoid of any feeling of reciprocal decency while they study or perhaps simply strive to put food on the table for their kids or whatever - yeah, I'm happy to leave them an appropriate tip. Sorry, if you still don't get it I'm not going to give you this time again......

How will you recognise this person who is

carrying, fetching, explaining, TOLERATING, restraining the urge to punch and generally suffering the public at large in order to make ends meet in some sweltering restaurant full of pretentious Axers who are devoid of any feeling of reciprocal decency while they study or perhaps simply strive to put food on the table for their kids.

Do you follow them for the day around work or maybe follow them home to assess their family needs or do you just take a look and see if they are in need of extra money or do you get them to fill out a questionaire or something? I am just trying to figure out how you know this person is suffering from the public and is restraining the urge to punch people? or that they are even striving to put food on the table for their kids? or do you ask them for a copy of their bank statements? or by any chance are you just assuming that they are in need of you extra money i.e. prejudging them without really knowing.

Does that only apply to restaurant workers or would you tip the follwing person aswell?
A supermarket worker who is

carrying, fetching, explaining, TOLERATING, restraining the urge to punch and generally suffering the public at large in order to make ends meet in some sweltering supermarket full of pretentious Axers who are devoid of any feeling of reciprocal decency while they study or perhaps simply strive to put food on the table for their kids

P.S. Are you confusing Charities with Restaurants/Waiting Staff?

No, do you generally treat people unequally? Are those who work in restaurants more worthy of your extra money than those who, for example, work in a supermarket? Did you perform or read an indept study into how much harder working in a restaurant is than other occupations? or find a source for the average wage for restaurant workers to conclude that they are more worthy of a tip than any other workers out there? or again, do you just think people are unequally worthy of your tips?

Or are they both just foremost in your mind generally as financial liabilities that might only serve to delay the delivery of your 5 series?

...Are you ok?

Raiser

Nonsense in volume Axer.

I think most people recognise that to tip some token amount is a decent and thoughtful thing to do.

If I ever can't afford to tip then I imagine I'll eat out a lot less and the massive quandaries you've wonderfully conjured up will cease to trouble me.

- Get out more, why not try and find things and people that interest you

axer

Raiser wrote: »

Nonsense in volume Axer.

Sure...don't answer any of the questions I posed to you even though I answered yours.

Raiser wrote: »

I think most people recognise that to tip some token amount is a decent and thoughtful thing to do.

My point (which seems to have flown over your head) is that you would tip whilst eating out because you think those working in the restaurant are going through such hardship (even though there is minimum wage in Ireland - @ €8.65 it is pretty high) but you would not tip the person stacking shelves in a supermarket etc even if they could be going through at least the same if not even more hardship. They experience the same problems and hardships that you listed for a restaurant worker as the reasons why you give them a tip. Care to explain why the restaurant workers are more deserving?

I am all for tips if they are given out equally to those who deserve it but this attitude that only restaurant workers deserve it for just doing their jobs and even though they are on at least minimum wage is ludicrous. It is asking for the prices in restaurants to increase.

Raiser wrote: »

If I ever can't afford to tip then I imagine I'll eat out a lot less and the massive quandaries you've wonderfully conjured up will cease to trouble me.

Good for you.

Colonel Sanders

axer wrote: »

My point (which seems to have flown over your head) is that you would tip whilst eating out because you think those working in the restaurant are going through such hardship (even though there is minimum wage in Ireland - @ €8.65 it is pretty high) but you would not tip the person stacking shelves in a supermarket etc even if they could be going through at least the same if not even more hardship. They experience the same problems and hardships that you listed for a restaurant worker as the reasons why you give them a tip. Care to explain why the restaurant workers are more deserving?

this is pretty much my stance on tipping too. By all means if someone goes 'above and beyond' but just automatically as it seems like the 'done thing'? Not a chance

As i said earlier in the thread no one has ever given me a satisfactory reason for tipping waiting staff and not other low paid workers.

taram

Why tip some token amount to people for no reason? I work my ass off and I don't get any tips. Don't even get commission. Frequently when I eat out I have no contact with the serving staff apart from 'I'd like blah blah' and when they give me my food. They're getting same wage as me, probably more, so I'm not giving them any tips. I get annoyed at 6 person + service charges, got this recently in Wagamama, came to 2.20 euro a person, and the person who'd organised the get together then wanted us to throw in 2 euro more each as a tip. Insane!

The only person I tip is the pizza delivery people, 9/10 they offer to help me carry my order up the steps to my house (30 odd steps) often getting drenched in the rain. That is beyond the call of duty, not just doing their job.

Raiser

axer wrote: »

Sure...don't answer any of the questions I posed to you even though I answered yours.

Nor would I have engaged in protracted discussions with you should your topic have, for example, been on the merits of inserting crayons in ones orifices; and for precisely the same reasons.

Colonel Sanders wrote:

this is pretty much my stance on tipping too. By all means if someone goes 'above and beyond' but just automatically as it seems like the 'done thing'? Not a chance

I would never, ever tip for poor service, some restaurant staff are really bad and its sometimes nice to leave the cnuts 2c on the table and walk......

Anyway folks - if ye don't want to tip then don't.
If ye don't want to let other drivers into a flow a traffic don't.
If ye don't want to help someone across the road then you simply don't have to.

An illustration of Modern Irish Apathy:

- I drop two children into a city centre Crèche each morning where the only parking is on the opposite side of the Street with no traffic lights or pedestrian crossing.

Now the traffic is quite slow-moving, but the amount of people who car after car after car [X~30] will happily leave you stand in the wind and rain with an infant in one arm, 3/4 bags in the other and a two year old at your side while all the time avoiding eye-contact is breath taking.

- But then they don't have to do the right thing either.

P.S. Our foreign visitors will almost without exception stop immediately and let you cross safely with a smile and a wave..........

Colonel Sanders

Raiser wrote: »

I would never, ever tip for poor service, some restaurant staff are really bad and its sometimes nice to leave the cnuts 2c on the table and walk......

I would never ever tip for decent service, that their job and what their employer pays them for. I will only tip if I get exceptional service