Oh ****, Its Worse Than I Thought

Overheal

Instead of going to bed thinking well maybe the Inquirer was wrong and it was only a few cards that were affected...

The Inquirer has posted a new article today, Blasting In addition to the 8400/8500/8600/8700s, They're also including the 8800s, the 9600 and 9800s

Last month, the Inquirer made the shocking accusation that every Nvidia graphics card with the G84 and G86 chipsets were bad (every 8-series card up to the 8800 basically). Nvidia said that's crap, but the Inquirer said it was all a big cover up. Now the Inquirer is reporting that "four board partners are seeing G92 and G94 chips going bad in the field at high rates." That would mean all of the GeForce 8800 GT, GTS and GS desktop cards, the mobile 8800s, and most of the 9600 and 9800 series graphics cards are defective. All summed up, the Inquirer is saying almost the entire run of 8 and 9-series GeForce cards are defective and "going bad in the field at high rates." More than that, they say that Nvidia will continue to cover it up because the cost of admitting the nature of the problem would be devastating, meaning we'll never know for sure. We'll just have to watch for anecdotes to pile up. We're really hoping they're wrong on this one—that's a lot of graphics cards, and if true, it could basically destroy Nvidia.

PogMoThoin

I'd take anything in the Inquirer with a pinch of salt. Not The best source TBH

Overheal

no its not but sometimes they can scare a good story out of its hole. They covered the John Edwards sex scandal a year before anyone else

Anti

I wouldnt believe it at all. They are always way off the mark. It was probably only a bad batch.

Cuddlesworth

I think Inquirer hit its high point when they registered the name.

AlmightyCushion

PogMoThoin wrote: »

I'd take anything in the Inquirer with a pinch of salt.

Really? I'd take anything the Inquirer says with an entire salt mines worth of salt. I've always liked the inquirer though, 'tis an entertaining read.

pwd

My m1530 gets hot a hell alright. I find that raising the back of it gives more space to the ventilation holes at the back and the bottom and helps keep it cool a lot. It seem especially important to keep the one at the back clear anyway.

Cuddlesworth

pwd wrote: »

My m1530 gets hot a hell alright. I find that raising the back of it gives more space to the ventilation holes at the back and the bottom and helps keep it cool a lot. It seem especially important to keep the one at the back clear anyway.

So the exact same as every other laptop then.

pwd

I thought someone would make a smart remark like that alright :rolleyes:
The same a other laptops with proper graphic cards in them - not the same as every laptop then, no. It's a more important consideration if it's more likely to have a system failure though so worthy of remark.

Overheal

Graphics: GPU-Z

CPU: Real Temp

Pre-Repairs I ran idle at 72 C
Post-Repairs I'm down to 44

Cuddlesworth

pwd wrote: »

I thought someone would make a smart remark like that alright :rolleyes:

The same a other laptops with proper graphic cards in them - not the same as every laptop then, no. It's a more important consideration if it's more likely to have a system failure though so worthy of remark.

If any laptop becomes too hot while sitting flat on a surface and needs to be raised in order to avoid failure then it is a very very badly designed laptop and should be immediately returned since it is incapable of doing the advertised role. That includes so called "gaming laptops".

Would you accept a desktop system that required you to have the side panel removed because it was overheating?

OVERHEAL wrote:

Pre-Repairs I ran idle at 72 C
Post-Repairs I'm down to 44

Could that not have been through bad mounting of the heatsink or thermal paste? It's interesting to see that chips created through the same process at the same voltage can read such large temperature differences otherwise.

I would have assumed the "newer" chips would have solved the flaws that caused them to break rather then a huge drop in temps.

Overheal

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Could that not have been through bad mounting of the heatsink or thermal paste? It's interesting to see that chips created through the same process at the same voltage can read such large temperature differences otherwise.

I would have assumed the "newer" chips would have solved the flaws that caused them to break rather then a huge drop in temps.

Well, Yes. But I dont know:

I mean, Yes, according to some websites usrs have managed to repair their card performance significantly after a manual re-build of the heat sink and re-applying new thermal paste. So that would explain it if it were just one, maybe 2 manufacturers (Dell and HP) but there have been problems among other OEM laptops too afaik. All I know is my repair form says new system Board, New Heat Sink. And TBH I dont know how much of the heat before was attributable to dust: Without taking apart the keyboard and all that, my laptop does not have an easy-hatch to the CPU/GPU so its impossible to dust under warranty.

ressem

So far, it's cost Nvidia $196 million in one off charges, according to their last earnings report. So it looks like it should be manageable for them if it isn't repeated over 2 or 3 more quarters.

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D92H09M00.htm

Though I wonder whether it's the same GPU issue that hit my NVS110 (7300 equivalent) based laptop last week, taking out the motherboard.

Silenceisbliss

pwd wrote: »

My m1530 gets hot a hell alright. I find that raising the back of it gives more space to the ventilation holes at the back and the bottom and helps keep it cool a lot. It seem especially important to keep the one at the back clear anyway.

OMG! jus by the way...if you open your window, or turn down the radiators...this will also cool down the laptop a bit :rolleyes:

Tigger

i'm gonna go out on a limb here and suggest you are a virgin

get laid get alife there is no need to be so sarcastic

Cuddlesworth

Overheal wrote: »

Well, Yes. But I dont know:

I mean, Yes, according to some websites usrs have managed to repair their card performance significantly after a manual re-build of the heat sink and re-applying new thermal paste. So that would explain it if it were just one, maybe 2 manufacturers (Dell and HP) but there have been problems among other OEM laptops too afaik. All I know is my repair form says new system Board, New Heat Sink. And TBH I dont know how much of the heat before was attributable to dust: Without taking apart the keyboard and all that, my laptop does not have an easy-hatch to the CPU/GPU so its impossible to dust under warranty.

Tbh most Oem manufacturer laptops I have taken apart, I have been shocked at the contact between the chips and the heatsinks. I have always had a feeling that low power/heat chips for laptops are really just accommodating bad manufacturing process's in the design and application of heatsinks.

For laptops that are difficult to clean, I use a can of compressed air sent back through the heatsink against the normal direction of the airflow.

Overheal

Did that about 9 months into the purchase, but nothing came out. Its hard to visualise what the air flow is like without having any firsthand experience with the guts of this machine: I've got the HDD and Ram panels to play with but real-estate wise those are a mile off.

Silenceisbliss

Tigger wrote: »

i'm gonna go out on a limb here and suggest you are a virgin

get laid get alife there is no need to be so sarcastic

that wounded me to the core man....*ouch* (oh crap....sarcasm again....OH NOES! ) just messing man, dont take it seriously:pac:.

but on a more serious note, methods of reducing temperatures. as i already mentioned, undervolting and the copper mod, I wanted to ask about just removing the plastic cover below the cooling assmbly. will that reduce temps significantly you reckon?, or am i gonna mess up the airflow?. the yoke usually just sits on my desk these days anyway, so damage in transit isnt really an issue

ps, there is ALWAYS just cause for sarcasm....always

Silenceisbliss

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Tbh most Oem manufacturer laptops I have taken apart, I have been shocked at the contact between the chips and the heatsinks. I have always had a feeling that low power/heat chips for laptops are really just accommodating bad manufacturing process's in the design and application of heatsinks.

also meant to ask what ur solution to this is? you clean and re-apply thermal paste tightening the screws a bit? or something more drastic?

Cuddlesworth

Silenceisbliss wrote: »

also meant to ask what ur solution to this is? you clean and re-apply thermal paste tightening the screws a bit? or something more drastic?

I don't do anything since I care little about what happens to the laptops. If they break I get the parts and repair them.

Silenceisbliss

work ethic and pride in your job FTW!:pac:

kaimera

http://direct2dell.com/one2one/archive/2008/08/18/nvidia-gpu-update-dell-to-offer-warranty-enhancement-to-all-affected-customers-worldwide.aspx

no 1500 on that list unless teh 1510 is it..

Silenceisbliss

how long would it take to get it replaced after sending it back to dell? is it worth my while?

im in germany, so i have to send it back to ireland, get them to send it to my house in ireland, then get my parents to send it to me in germany...pain


should i bother?

and if i redo the thermal paste myself, is that defo a warrenty VOID?

god dammit, this sucks

christophicus

kaimera wrote: »

http://direct2dell.com/one2one/archive/2008/08/18/nvidia-gpu-update-dell-to-offer-warranty-enhancement-to-all-affected-customers-worldwide.aspx

no 1500 on that list unless teh 1510 is it..

I think it is not on the list simply because they do not sell it anymore. You will notice that they no longer use the 8600m GT. They did with the 1500, I am assuming it was because the 8600m GT was not stable enough.

kaimera

christophicus wrote: »

I think it is not on the list simply because they do not sell it anymore. You will notice that they no longer use the 8600m GT. They did with the 1500, I am assuming it was because the 8600m GT was not stable enough.

I must call Dell and see what teh craic is then.

my 1500 year warrenty runs out soon i think.

Cuddlesworth

Silenceisbliss wrote: »

how long would it take to get it replaced after sending it back to dell? is it worth my while?

im in germany, so i have to send it back to ireland, get them to send it to my house in ireland, then get my parents to send it to me in germany...pain


should i bother?

and if i redo the thermal paste myself, is that defo a warrenty VOID?

god dammit, this sucks

Depending on who you get on the phone, you can try to convince them that you are capable of doing it yourself. If they give you the green light then it won't void the warranty.

Silenceisbliss

right, need to become convincing so.... right.... eh... jaysus, its easy to reset the bloody heatsink like, but ive no computer credentialls to throw at them, its just a hobby really, a life consuming hobby... could just say, "IM AN ENGINEER FOR CHRIST SAKE", should fly


how do they check a warrenty breach by the way? do they check the force in the screws to see if they have been tampered with or is it just the sticker?

christophicus

kaimera wrote: »

I must call Dell and see what teh craic is then.

my 1500 year warrenty runs out soon i think.

Let us know how you get on.

Cuddlesworth

Silenceisbliss wrote: »

how do they check a warrenty breach by the way? do they check the force in the screws to see if they have been tampered with or is it just the sticker?

Most I have seen they have nothing. But any replacement of the TIM would be noticeable.

kaimera

christophicus wrote: »

Let us know how you get on.

bleh, on the phone now.

so far, all I got is that it while the card 'may' have probs the 1500 model might not be affected and thats why it's not on that list but I'm waiting on word as to the extended warrenty just because.

A pre.emptive call is what this is. I've no probs but I dont want to end up with aa dead laptop cos Dell ****ed me around.

christophicus

kaimera wrote: »

bleh, on the phone now.

so far, all I got is that it while the card 'may' have probs the 1500 model might not be affected and thats why it's not on that list but I'm waiting on word as to the extended warrenty just because.

A pre.emptive call is what this is. I've no probs but I dont want to end up with aa dead laptop cos Dell ****ed me around.

Yup I am going to do the same. I am going to email them and phone them up. Hopefully they will extend it to a 3 year warrenty. I would be happy enough with that.

Silenceisbliss

just got this back from DELL support:

Regarding your concerns Dell recommends that you flash your BIOS each of these BIOS updates modifies the fan profile to help you regulate the GPU temperature fluctuation these BIOS updates will help you to reduce the likelihood of GPU issues To flash the BIOS please follow the link given below : http://support.euro.dell.com/support/downloads/download.aspx?c=uk&l=en&s=gen&releaseid=R191967&SystemID=XPS_M1330&servicetag=GWFRL3J&os=WLH&osl=en&deviceid=14178&devlib=0&typecnt=0&vercnt=7&catid=-1&impid=-1&formatcnt=1&libid=1&fileid=263515 Please let me know if the issue still persists so that I can move accordingly and resolve this issue in timely manner. We always welcome our customers concerns and queries and try to respond to them to the best of our knowledge and ability.

who feels like writing a smart ass reply saying; its not a soluotion, its only prolongling the problem beyond my warrenty, my battery life is already sh1t enough, you have an obligation to ensure youre products are to standard, I already know about the nvidia GPU fcuk up, etc.....

Overheal

that seems like a reasonable reply. just do it formally without all the rage

pwd

any problem extending a one-year warranty after purchase at this time?

kaimera

christophicus wrote: »

Let us know how you get on.

Got them to email me with the reply I got over the phone as well so I'd have it in writing.

The issue reported on the http://direct2dell.com/one2one/default.aspx website is not applicable for the vostro 1500 machines, so the issue is not related to your system at all. If there is a fault found with the card within the warranty period it would be replaced under warranty and if a fault found after the warranty period it would still be considered out of warranty.

I'm kinda torn now tbph. Wont extend the warrenty as per the link above as a result.

AlmightyCushion

pwd wrote: »

any problem extending a one-year warranty after purchase at this time?

Nope, you can do it. In fact, when you're 1 year is up they'll send you a reminder letting you know you can upgrade it.

Overheal

If you were planning on extending your warranty on select models: its already been taken care of. though I suspect if you got 2, youll get 3, etc.

http://gizmodo.com/5038776/dell-extends-warranties-for-laptops-with-failing-nvidia-chips-while-nvidia-stays-mum

Silenceisbliss

just sent this to dell support after they just told me to flash the bios to crank up fan speeds....now i wait to see what they say... and by "colleagues", i mean; imaginary people

As regards to your advice on flashing the Bios to a more recent version; Many of my colleagues and I feel this is not a solution, but rather just prolonging the problem. Flashing my Bios so that the fan control is manipulated to run harder merely suggests that my hardware will be reduced in temperature at a huge cost of my battery life, and unless Dell ships a free spare battery to compensate, then this "solution" is simply converting the temperature problem into a battery life one.

Temperatures, having reached the levels that they already have, may very well already have caused detrimental damage to the GPU, and possibly the CPU, and as such is just a matter of time before the problems reveal themselves. This “waiting period” is in my opinion just going to keep my laptop temporarily working to some date possibly beyond my warranty date. This is not acceptable.

From what I can gather, there is a severe material defect in various nVidia graphics cards, mine accordingly outlined in the link below. And as such, nVidia and Dell have an obligation to rectify the fault.
http://gizmodo.com/5038776/dell-extends-warranties-for-laptops-with-failing-nvidia-chips-while-nvidia-stays-mum

As also evident in the link above, my warranty is now extended to two years. Unfortunately, I will use this warranty only as a last resort as I can’t easily afford to be without my laptop for any extended period.

As an avid computer hardware enthusiast and being very familiar with computer hardware as a result, I would however be willing to re-sit the heat sink in my laptop myself, (which as I’m told should make a significant difference) and see if this constitutes a solution. However, I don’t want to do this for the reason that it will void my warranty. If there’s a possibility of me getting a green light to perform these actions without voiding my warranty, I would be more than happy to see if it gives beneficial results.

If this goes greatly against your protocol, then I would much prefer if the affected hardware was replaced so that temperatures are NOT detrimentally high, and my battery life is NOT unacceptably reduced.

Sincerely,
Silenceisbliss (no, i actually did write my real name:pac:)

bit of an essay, i know...but sure...whatever

TerrorFirmer

But temperatures were never the problem at all, it's the going from hot to cold cycle that exposes the weakness......temperatures in the mobile 8 series are fine. The whole point of the bios update is to keep the fan at a fixed temperature to minimize the cycle above.

Silenceisbliss

ya, i meantioned that in the last email. but bios update is still going to own my battery.

i dont get how a constant fan speed is going to keep the temperatures constant.... if anything, dynamic fan control is going to keep the temperatures constant....high temperature - high fan speed to keep temp under control.... Low temperature- low fan speed. it balances out like that

how would constant fan speed stop the cycles?

Silenceisbliss

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand the response...

Thank you for your reply. I do understand your concern and would like to inform you that being from a Dell XPS Hardware Support; I would be able to replace the part only once able to isolate the point of failure on the system. I'm sorry, but I'm afraid that my area of expertise is in technical matters, and forum issues are not something that I could comment on. Please confirm if you are facing the any of the following symptoms on the machine even after updating the bios. These may be intermittent during early stages of failure: Multiple images Random characters on the screen Lines on the screenNo video Attach the external monitor on the VGA port (Blue Color) at the back side of the system.Press the Fn and F8 keys to toggle the display mode between the video modes (One time for LCD Only, second time for Monitor Only, and third time for Both). Check if the issue persist in external monitor. Is the system getting hot and shuts down randomly? I would definitely like to resolve the issue at the earliest and would replace the part if found faulty. We would need to run a Diagnostic on the system and we will get to know if any internal hardware has gone bad or creating conflict because of which we are facing this issue, so that we can proceed further to replace the faulty parts. To go to the Dell Diagnostics, Shut down the system first. Turn the system back on and immediately start tapping the F12 key till the time you see a screen with One time Boot Menu. Select 'Diagnostic' option and hit enter. Then follow the prompts till you get the screen with Dell Diagnostic and Select Express Test. Also visit the link to run the dignostic test: http://support.euro.dell.com/support/topics/global.aspx/support/dsn/en/document?docid=A9E3A15597A04AFBB02EE16785D39C5C&c=uk&l=en&s=gen Please be informed that I would not like you to remove the heatsink yourself and would request you to provide the details given below after performing the steps and provide the result so that we can set up the service. To initiate the onsite service delivery, it is very important to have all the below mentioned information for an early closure of the current issue in hand. Please provide me the following details:

predictable....heap of nothing. totally disregarding what i said tbh.
ah well. *takes screw-driver to laptop* (seriously)

Overheal

youve been given an extra warranty year and you want to toss it away with a screwdriver? Thats just silly. Flash the BIOS, and when your battery life turns **** at the end of the year it will be covered under the warranty and replaced with a fresh battery.

AlmightyCushion

Overheal wrote: »

youve been given an extra warranty year and you want to toss it away with a screwdriver? Thats just silly. Flash the BIOS, and when your battery life turns **** at the end of the year it will be covered under the warranty and replaced with a fresh battery.

I'd double check if the battery is covered under the warranty.

Overheal

well it is part of the order, and considering it would be suffering from a defect in connection to the bios issue in connection to the gpu issue.

Cuddlesworth

Battery's are considered wear and tear, the same as keyboards. That's because most have a end of life stage that's around 1 to 2 years.

AlmightyCushion

Are they not considered consumables, like printer cartridges and the like.